I always ask "approximately how old are you in rl?" (the "approximately" is for people who don't want to be precise, usually because they are over 30)
and: "Are you male or female in rl?" I sometimes suggest we have a convo on skype to make sure...
If in doubt, get to know them better. Just like rl.
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Sexual Predators |
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Nad Kivioq
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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05-31-2006 08:22
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Pratyeka Muromachi
Meditating Avatar
Join date: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 642
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05-31-2006 08:39
I'd like to take this one step further than this post has talked about thus far. Not long ago a friend of mine and I had a lengthy discussion about Roleplay in Second Life. In this discussion this exact same topic was touched on. We both agreed all residents are protected by the Terms of Service (ToS) that you agree to legally when you sign up to use Second Life. To me, that is the end of the story as it pertains to unknowingly having cybor sex with minors. This leads to another thing I’ve seen in second life. Some residents who are adults roleplay children (under 18 years old) inside Second Life. They also engage in cybor sex as these roleplay characters. What would be the repercussion of such activity should an FBI agent play such a role? Is engaging in cybor sex with an adult roleplaying a minor illegal? Is such activity considered a form of child pornography? I don’t have an answer to the questions on legality. I have my opinion on such activity but don’t feel it’s relevant since I do not engage in such activities. I just thought since there is a discussion on minors and sex on the mature grid that this scenario would also be something worth discussing. *huggles* Savonah Since no real child was involved, it's consensual cybersex between adults. _____________________
gone to Openlife Grid and OpenSim standalone, your very own sim on your PC, 45,000 prims, huge prims at will up to 100m, yes, run your own grid on your PC, FOR FREE!
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Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
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05-31-2006 08:54
Since no real child was involved, it's consensual cybersex between adults. Indeed. By the way, for those of you who think that topical discussion that's relevant to 20/30-somethings would weed out minors... Heh! It doesn't. The teens who would be interested in avoiding the teen grid and being around adults are frequently quite capable of holding their own in a conversation regarding politics or religion or any number of topics. So - talk to them on the phone, talk to them on skype, find out as much as you can about them and don't simply take them at their word. And if they say they've no mic or phone? Run away. Run away very, very fast, because they are either lying or not worth the risk. Oh, and credit cards - sometimes a good indicator - but, again - not always. This comes from years of watching teenagers run verbal rings around adults twice, three times their age in a religious debate chatroom that put high priority on intellectual ability. _____________________
everyone loves phedre (excluding chickens), its in the TOS  |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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05-31-2006 09:29
It goes beyond having cybersex with them.
If someone says or suggests that they are a minor. I would tell them to pardon me for a few. Send in that Abuse Report, mute, place (frieze), drop kick (eject). If I am in a public place get the frak away from them! If they are on my "friends" list remove them. Then place them on my target list for my security program. Have nothing to do with them! It could of course could be someone playing a joke but it is not funny. If it is an FBI Agent, he or she will be surprised and will probally try again in which they will recieve the same course. In case of minors and possible police the safe course is the best course! Have nothing to do with them! |
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onionpencil Musashi
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 324
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05-31-2006 09:43
tuber! tried to IM you but it says you disabled it, and obviously can't say hi in world.
great name! come visit... too few root veggies around SL... no sex involved lol |
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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05-31-2006 10:51
Meh ... no one under 30 at the very least would capture my mind enough to even be looking at them that way let alone want to do anything about it!
But then - I am an angel  There was a thread about this the other day, surely the bottom line is use your common sense and report anything you think mught be kids on here. |
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KC Bernstein
did not do it
Join date: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 21
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05-31-2006 11:02
I have yet to meet one person on the mature grid that doesn't know the age requirement for the mature grid is 18yo. Therefore in my opinion if someone under the age of 18 is on the mature grid that right there is ENTRAPMENT. Mature grid should be full of adults who are responsible for thier own actions. On the other hand, I do worry about how many predators are on the Teen grid.
KC |
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Red Mars
What?
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
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05-31-2006 11:08
I don't know about female AV's, but it's quite easy to spot underage male's. Just go to any sexually themed events and look for the naked guy walking around with an erect penis attachment hitting on every woman he comes across.
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Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
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05-31-2006 11:11
Hello All, Just had a question for you. If people are engaging in cybersex and all that, how do you know the other person isn't minor? Some states are making it illegal to even solicit sex from a minor, whether you know its a minor or not. So, it seems to me pretty unsafe to be engaging in Cybersex in game because the person on the other end could be a minor. Or worse, the monor's father who is an FBI agent. Just wanted to hear what you all thought. Tuber Any law that makes it illegal to solicite sex from a minor whether you know they are or not will not stand up in court. It's unconstitutional to be charged with a crime when you had no way of knowing what you were doing was a crime. So don't worry about it. |
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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05-31-2006 11:45
To paraphrase comedian Demitri Martin, the bad thing about Second Life is that it is full of sexual predators. But the good thing about Second Life is that it's full of sexual prey.
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Kenzington Fairlight
Surrogate
Join date: 9 Jun 2003
Posts: 139
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05-31-2006 13:52
Or worse, the monor's father who is an FBI agent. Well if it's the minors father then their shouldn't be any problem because you are no longer soliciting sex from a minor. Unless...the minors father is ALSO a minor FBI agent! omg. In which case someone has been doing a little bit more than soliciting...probably on the internet. Some states are making it illegal to even solicit sex from a minor, whether you know its a minor or not. So if a minor tells you they are over a consenting age and you have cybersex with them...you are breaking the law now? seems a bit odd...I guess we're going to have to start running over invasive background checks into everyone we meet online now. On the bright side...LL REQUIRES that all players of Secondlife be over the age of 18 and this is supposedly verified in the same way it is verified everywhere else online. I don't see how having intarwebsex with someone underage, using the SL client, could put you at fault in any way. _____________________
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Groucho Mandelbrot
is no more
Join date: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 296
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05-31-2006 16:32
Blindly relying on the ToS is very naive. The ToS is more for the protection of Linden Labs, not you. It is just as unwise to try to use a very broad definition of entrapment.
But really, there is nothing to worry about if you're in mature areas. Even if you were doing mild forms of underage role-playing, it would be difficult to comprehend what laws you would be breaking. However, if your sex partner claims at any point to be underage in RL then run away quickly. (Reporting them is overkill, IMO, unless they did it just to screw with you, which is cruel.) Some states are making it illegal to even solicit sex from a minor, whether you know its a minor or not. Taken out of context it's hard to understand what you mean here. I don't think any state has made it illegal to have a sexual conversation with someone who can reasonably be assumed to be an adult. I assume what you are referring to concerns soliciting real sex with someone you better oughta know could be a minor (even if you don't "know" for sure). In that case, it's just taking away the "She looked 18" defense. Being abnormally stupid is not an excuse. |
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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05-31-2006 16:49
(Reporting them is overkill, IMO, unless they did it just to screw with you, which is cruel.) Not at all overkill. Minors DO NOT BELONG on the main grid. Report them. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Groucho Mandelbrot
is no more
Join date: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 296
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05-31-2006 17:04
Not at all overkill. Minors DO NOT BELONG on the main grid. Report them. Why? What's in it for me? Are you worried that LL (and therefore SL) will be shut down by the FBI if we allow a few minors to roam the grid? That is a little far-fetched, but if that's your reason I can grudgingly agree. Otherwise, I don't see why it's any of my business. |
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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05-31-2006 18:03
You are, you provide hundreds with sheer Eggstasy! Simultaneously???  P2 _____________________
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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05-31-2006 18:08
Slow news day?
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
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05-31-2006 18:17
I don't know about female AV's, but it's quite easy to spot underage male's. Just go to any sexually themed events and look for the naked guy walking around with an erect penis attachment hitting on every woman he comes across. (now I have to figure out how to get the pinot stain out of my shirt )_____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant |
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Toni Bentham
M2 Fashion Editor
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 560
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05-31-2006 19:40
Since no real child was involved, it's consensual cybersex between adults. You bet. It's no different than wearing costumes in your bedroom. It's unconstitutional to be charged with a crime when you had no way of knowing what you were doing was a crime. So don't worry about it. That's simply not true. If it were, then being ignorant of the law would keep many, many people out of jail. You're responsible for knowing the laws of the jurisdiction you are in, wherever you are in the nation. If that were the case, every county and state in the nation would have to post all of their laws as signs on the border. There's no protection for ignorance in the Constitution. If you think there is, find the section and article. As an example, if I drive into Massachusetts from New York for the first time, I can be pulled over and ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt, whether I knew not wearing a seatbelt was a crime or not. _____________________
Register today at SLorums.net for great discussions, good features, and a friendly staff - all you'd expect from a good forums site!
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Alex Fitzsimmons
Resu Deretsiger
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
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05-31-2006 19:58
Why? What's in it for me? Are you worried that LL (and therefore SL) will be shut down by the FBI if we allow a few minors to roam the grid? That is a little far-fetched, but if that's your reason I can grudgingly agree. Otherwise, I don't see why it's any of my business. The better thing to be concerned about, honestly, Groucho, is that since it's a violation for a minor to be on the main grid, knowingly keeping said minor's secret might put you yourself in jeopardy. I may or may not personally care that a 16-year-old is hanging out in the main SL grid, but I'm not about to take the remotest chance of taking a fall for one. Especially one who's apparently too careless to avoid revealing his or her age in the first place, or else how would I have known? |
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
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05-31-2006 20:24
It don't matter what your avatar looks like most the time. Your attractive to someone... When i made my THERE account i was in a newbie female av and people were hitting on me like crazy... My Sl avatar can easily have attached fangs or walruss tusks with blood on them and look like they havent bathed in months or are a zombie but that arouses some people. O.o I like Zombies!!! It's one of the few times women can say they had a stiff one |
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Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
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05-31-2006 20:39
That's simply not true. If it were, then being ignorant of the law would keep many, many people out of jail. You're responsible for knowing the laws of the jurisdiction you are in, wherever you are in the nation. If that were the case, every county and state in the nation would have to post all of their laws as signs on the border. There's no protection for ignorance in the Constitution. If you think there is, find the section and article. As an example, if I drive into Massachusetts from New York for the first time, I can be pulled over and ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt, whether I knew not wearing a seatbelt was a crime or not. I didn't say that not knowing the law was an excuse. I said that it was unconstitutional to be charged with a crime if there was no way for you to know if you were breaking the law or not. That has nothing to do with not knowing the law. If you cyber with a minor and you have no reason to believe they are a minor, you haven't committed a crime. You believed you were having a lawful conversation with a consenting adult. You had no way to know it was a minor, so you can't be charged with a crime. That is why when the FBI does their predator stings, they make sure and say in the chat "I am only 15" or whatever to make sure the person they are talking to KNOWS they are a minor. Any law that makes it a crime to cyber with a minor, whether you knew they were a minor or not, is unconstitutional because although you can know what the law is, you have no way to know if you are breaking it or not. |
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Missy Malaprop
♥Diaper Girl♥
Join date: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 544
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05-31-2006 20:42
actually as far as I've read, there is no federal law for age of consent, they leave it up to the states to have those laws. Even in the US is legal to have sex with people under 18 in some areas. I remeber a case a few years ago on the news in Alabama a teacher had sex with his student who was 16. The school fired him for bad behaviour of a teacher, but the state couldnt arrest or charge him with anything because 16 is the legal age of consent there for male/female intercourse.
that being said, if you are doing sexual things, even talking/cybering, with someone that you know to be underage, or have a good suspicion of being underage, then you deserve to be arrested and charge with something for being such a disgusting creep. |
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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05-31-2006 20:43
Minors do NOT belong on the adult grid, period! I think maybe we should issue cattle prods to everyone to keep them out!
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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05-31-2006 21:31
There won't be any FBI stings in SL. The reason is simple. First the FBI agent would have to represent himself as an adult to get into SL, then he would have to represent himself as a child. That right there would create enough "reasonable" doubt in any courtroom. SL is an adult online community. There is no need to be paranoid about cybersex in SL. It isn't really sex anyway. No penetration, no attempted penetration, no touching of any kind. It's simply sex talk. I've never seen anyone in SL try to hook up in RL while pixelslapping.
And age-play, as disturbing as it is, is perfectly legal. American courts have ruled that child pornography laws don't apply to "created" images that don't involve any real children. Now for the personal disclaimer. I own a gay sex club in SL. The group connected to the club voted to ban age play on the club's premises. The whole point of the club is to provide a place for guys to get excited and get it on with other guys. Age play isn't part of our "kink." In fact, for a majority of us, it's definitely anti-kink. |
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Merlyn Bailly
owner, AVALON GALLERIA
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 576
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05-31-2006 22:21
You don't Tuber.. that's the problem. So you're faced with the choice of not partaking of t3h cyb0rs3ks *OR* try keeping the conversation to topics that would only be relevant to 20-somethings, 30-somethings or older. Better yet, just start talking about how it's such a bitch paying for your teenage kids' college education when all they want to do is party and never crack their books open and study. There's plenty of ploys to weed out the underage. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who simply act like children themselves. However, the assumption in SL is that anyone on the main grid is at least 18. No-one in law enforcement can build a case of child endangerment, pedophilia, or even "contributing" when EVERYONE on the main grip is supposed to be at least 18. Unless they point-blank TELL you they are under 18, don't worry about it. However, those who are doing "age play" should beware. Personally, I think it's freakin' SICK, but again, unless the person behind the av specifically states they are underage, you're pretty safe (even if you are pretty twisted). _____________________
SL used to be a game -- now it's a corporate advertising/marketing platform.
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