Policing texture theft. One possible solution everyone will hate!

Could you explain further? A a webadmin and site designer, I don't see how your point overlaps the current discussion.

I'm not saying it does not, just that I would like to understand better.

Not interested. If other content creators want to protect, THEY can pay.


I've personally helped people break down my mod enabled products so they can copy them. Do you really think I'd pay just so you can have better security?

Let those who want the security pay for it.

Sure. Really, there are two things involved that make me hold that opinion.

First, LL needs to peg uploads of content to a hard fee somewhere. While it's very nice to have an uncapped inventory and so forth, the current model is very, very unrealistic. This leads people with little to no inventory to subsidize those with terabytes of clothing, sounds, and other such things.

This would not be such a problem if people could directly remove assets from the pool. Rsync, FTP, and other minimal shell access tools allow people to do this -- by backing up the files and removing them from the system, thus "clearing out the crap." This sort of transparency is more or less needed, and rewarding users for lower asset strain (in addition to playing nice with copyright) would diffuse the problem further.


This all comes into play because a tiered upload structure opens the door to finite data restrictions. And while what I'm saying surely flies into the face of the Second Life "culture," it's something that is quite necessary for the long haul.

Regardless, I would be quite unwilling to pay any fee for content management until these rudimentary services were offered.

Yup, you're right. Most everybody hates it.

But keep thinking and I'm sure we'll all come across something that will work We have nothing to fear but fear itself - and apathy.

i wouldn't say 64% is "most everybody"

What'd'ya'know. He figured out the reason for the thread!

A few other ideas have also poped up in this thread, so we have something interesting to look at. I've just always found that ideas flow better if someing prims the pump with a single idea to start with.

I am afraid, though, that this issue is not going to have a happy answer, it's going to have the answer that people hate the least.

Nah, thats 64% of all votes.

When you stack those that care, the issue was defeated by a 3-to-1 margin.

how do you prove it?

I don't see why it is such a problem to police in the first place. Each upload should have a timestamp on it. I see the process working this way:

For images ripped and copied from the game (probably the vast majority of the theft going on):

1. Person A creates an asset, then uploads it. It is time-stamped.
2. Person B copies it through one of several methods:
a. By capturing its UUID
b. By extracting it from the cache or by using an OpenGL tool.
c. By taking screenshots or using some other recording method to capture it.
3. Person B then re-uploads (if not method a) the asset and uses it in a product, or just sells it outright.
4. Person A discovers or is informed about the theft. He/she files a DMCA takedown notice with any/all proof of ownership attached.
5. Linden Lab gets the notice, investigates the situation, examining the two assets in question, using the aforementioned timestamps as one piece of evidence to support the original owner.
a. If it was a UUID copy, they tell the user to stop using the UUID immediately, or risk deletion of account and assets, unless they can file a successful counterclaim under the DMCA.
b. Otherwise, if the asset is judged close enough to the original to fall afoul of the copyright of the owner, or if the defendant fails to dispute said ownership properly under the provisions of the DMCA for such, they tell the defendant again to stop using it immediately, or reassign the asset to the original owner (or delete it if they can't).
6. If the defendant files a reasonable counterclaim, disputing ownership by the plaintiff, then Linden Lab passes the counterclaim along to the plaintiff so that he/she can take further legal action, OUTSIDE of the domain of Linden Lab.

That is pretty much the extent of the action that Linden Lab is responsible for. They are NOT the courts. They are NOT lawyers. They ARE a service provider. IF you care about your creations enough to not have them stolen, then take the time to properly document your ownership of them, and be prepared to gird your loins and follow the prescribed procedure to protect it.

That's all there really is to it, folks. No amount of technological measures or taxing the public is going to change the fact that you, as a content creator, are the most responsible party for protecting your content. That's the way the law works in the real world, and that's the way it should work.

Thanks for your attention!

No way, 1 We pay LL enough as it is, 2 THIS IS SL NOT RL, There are no pattens in SL, 3 most textures are not your own hand creations in the first place. sure I can surf the net and find all kinds of textures or use paintshop or photo shop textures, but that doesn't make them mine, Not my own hand creations to claim as mine and not yours.


4 Spyware policing and all that other crap isn't the answer. As long as there is a internet and online communitys with user created content there will always be knocks of the stuff and textures used that look like some you have used before.

get use to it, moaning about it on the forums and in world isn't going to change anything. People will always find a way around whatever silly security thing people come up with.

Original documents, a statement and a scan of my signature is the norm.

/139/e2/125506/1.html


The procedure is usually to ask the thief to remove it. When they refuse (I don't recall anyone ever removing it at this point) an email is sent to the host explaining the copyright theft and asking what information they require to remove the material.

Below is a very typical idea of the info a host will ask for,

Dear sir,
A jpeg of my signature is attached.
The site in question at www.blahblah is using my artwork.
The following url shows the original arwork as it was intended to be used: www.blahblah
I have included several psd files of the original artwork as proof.

4. Ways in which you can contact me:
<address removed>
Telephone:<removed>
e-mail: <removed>

Statement:
5. I, the complaining party have a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, it's agent, or the law.
The information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, I (as the owner) am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

regards


I have never had a webhost refuse this.
A 24 hour warning is given for the thief to remove the artwork, if they don't comply their site is trashed and account deleted.

No This is not good idea.

I really doubt LL would go for this, as their stance, posted and tacit, is to allow for as much self-policing as it were as possible. They are loathe to impose that type of restriction.

Points for effort though.

1) PSDs can be forged.
2) What does a signature jpg do for you? I can forge a signature and scan it in extremely easily.

3) What would you do if the ISP refuses? I mean, realistically. How much does legla action cost?

Please visit the challenge i set for phillip linden and feel free to submit your own entry.
You may feel adding a few layers to a document is a good forgery but anyone who uses graphic software will see straight through it.
Good luck.


It doesn't do anything for me. Its enough for a web host though.


I've never contacted peoples ISP's. I'm talking about website hosts and as I said none of them have refused.

What if somebody has an unorthodox way of doing textures in photoshop? Lord knows if there's different styles of build-fu in SL that are almost incomprehensible to my fellow builders, then photoshop-ninjitsu has to be at least similar.



I suppose it's marginally better than attaching a picture of a funny animal, but it wouldn't do anything to me except annoy me that it's in my inbox.



But what if they do? Think hypothetical. Or are you just hoping they don't call your bluff?

There is a technological solution to greatly hamper (and likely stop) texture theft, and while it is not trivial, it is also not that difficult.

Use a digital watermark. Apply the watermark server side. If the asset server detects the watermark on a texture during the upload phase, then the texture is known to be stolen. Digital watermarking algorithms are well-known and very stable. Vendors such as digimarc (a demo of their watermarking scheme is available in Photoshop) provide filters that can be implemented in a product. Digital watermarks are generally imperceptible, and are very difficult to remove without repainting the whole texture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_watermarking

And to do it with even a slight chance of not being easily detected requires enough time and effort to make texture theft MUCH less time/effort effective.

Now THAT'S a point!

5 to 1 hatefest of this idea. Not sure what I means, but I think we should impliment this idea NOW just to cause mass panic!



Orrrrrr. I could be wrong...

Fair enough. But I believe we're missing the big picture here, which I myself just stumbled upon.

LLab won't be the sole producer of SL islands and assets forever. Their stated goal, time and again, is to open-source many parts of the code and have LLab become sort of a guiding force and/or open competitor for land hosting.

So they spend six months to a year implementing a pretty good system for detecting infringing works. But then AnsheCorp opens up a competing grid, and we get to start all over again.

Or, better yet, they still retain the reins of SL, but then the poor Linden workers are literally overwhelmed by the claims and counter-claims of people on the grid. The system dies a slow death.

Or, even better yet, the inevitable "false positives"; innocent people being booted off the grid for copyright violations, losing their Second Life's work over years, just because some schmoo was being a jerk.

Awesome.

To be honest, I'm really glad I deal in 3d.

I don't imagine anyone being "overwhelmed", we are talking about a small minority of people here - not hundreds/thousands. If/when LL start dishing out punishments it will be an added deterent.

Again, any punishment is easily skirted by starting a new alt account.

makes no difference. that is the grave LL dug for us and themselves.

Its exactly the same on the web.
Someone theives, their host closes them down, they move to another host, they get closed down again etc etc

its still the same thief behind the keyboard, all they are doing is moving around, and really how much moving are they prepared to do for a few lindens?

White squaw speaks words of wisdom. Ugh.