Defining the FIC (Seriously)

and I thought Quasimodo was good!

The FIC wear gold plated diapers, babies.

No, I haven't. However:

a) the bottom of the application page explicitly states that not everyone who applies gets in.
b) the low number of developers listed suggests that either some have been turned down or that the possibliity of being turned down has discouraged people from joining.
c) even lacking plain evidence, the statement I made was that the existance of the DD does not disprove the existance of the FIC. The only way it could disprove it is if there was no possible way the DD could co-exist with the FIC. As it is, there are many such ways. This does not mean that any of those ways actually apply, or that there is anything wrong with the DD, or even that there is a FIC. It just means that if somebody believes there is a FIC, showing them the DD doesn't prove them wrong.



Well, ok, fair enough. (Although what I mentioned still applies to meetings that are with LL.)

The developer directory isn't worth anything, as Linden Lab don't even use it. I can tell you categorically that there was a project in the offing and that went through to presentation etc. in Second Life that was offered to a group that is not listed on the developer directory. It was only offered to them and nobody else.

So, exactly what's the point in being listed on the developer directory if Linden Lab circumvent it anyway *shrug*

So basically Yumi, like many of your arguements, you can't find -proof- that there is anything FICish about the directory, but gosh darnit, you have a hunch and are going to use that slander anyone involved in it because it's just so UNFAIR.

What job was that?

Well the problem is that I'm not sure that I have permission to say what the job was, or who it was for, to be honest - I don't want to get myself into hot water legally by naming companies etc.

The point I'm making is that the Lindens are not using the developer directory in the way I think many believe they are. They're not using the developer directory to push jobs to, they are using other criteria. What those criteria are, I do not know.

I'm not doubting it happened at all, in case it read that way, just asking out of curiosity.

You'd think the Lindens would at least have the cleverness to tell the groups they plan to hire to get in the directory real quick. I mean, if I'm going to hire my buddy over everyone else, I'm still going to take an application and resume as a formality, whether I'm hiring the buddy because they're the best, or hiring them because they're my buddy.

No, I didn't think that was why you were asking, no worries there. I just want to be careful, because I don't want to get myself into trouble for mentioning specifics I'm not supposed to do.

I agree with your second paragraph though, entirely.

No, I'm not slandering it or saying anything there's anything wrong with the directory.

All I've said is that the existance of the DD does not disprove the existance of the FIC. Its existance is not a counter-argument.

That doesn't mean that I believe that the FIC exists. As I said before - if I say that the fact that "we see the sun moving in a circle" isn't a counter-argument to the suggestion that "the Earth is flat", that doesn't mean I actually believe the Earth is flat.

Dear Prospective Competitors:

Okay, I've had enough of this charade. I'll come clean. Yes, that's right, the directory is a bunch of hooey and you shouldn't waste your time submitting your info. You'll never get any work that way, and my god, if you didn't get accepted that would be worse than never trying. It was entirely unrealistic of me to expect businesspeople to be able to bear such uncertainty, not to mention the potential stress of having to prepare a proposal for submission to a client. Besides, the only way to get hired in SL is if you're a member of the FIC. No one has a chance unless they were here in beta and has at least five Linden lovers, relatives, or pets. You need to be really good at cybersex, too, and own a lot of expensive poseballs. I think you should all give up right now and spare yourselves the embarassment. Besides, you wouldn't want to be a sellout and pervert your art by accepting filthy lucre for it.

Love,

Kim

P. S. That pie is probably nasty and I think you should give it to me for umm safe disposal.

Yes, and exactly. And even if they are hiring someone who is NOT the buddy. "I like your work. Get in the Directory please, because I have something in mind for you that I will ask you about tomorrow."

That's what I mean by process. There wouldn't even be a thing wrong with the above. Even if it were a buddy. Process - such as a Directory, such as a contest, such as a bid.

Philip needs to state such, and send around a memo.

coco

Brilliant! I love it! The FIC confessional we have all been waiting for!

*clap clap clap*

The sad part is, few will realise that you should be taken absolutely literally.

Wow, that was mature.

Yumi, if that's your opinion then I must have gotten you mixed up with another poster on one of the earlier pages.

Sorry bout that.

And Kim, that was perfect

That's alright - I know things get misunderstood here.

My basic opinion is that SL, like many other communities (offline and online), has three key factors involved:

- A "bonus" from the owners/administrators is valuable and sought-after by practically everyone in the community.
- The owners/administrators can only give bonuses to people they know about (amongst other requirements).
- There are too many people in the community for the owners/adminstrators to know about them all.

Now that would seem to meet the conditions for there to be a FIC, and that situation is very often misunderstood as a conspiracy, but it isn't automatically so. I've seen other forums where things had major problems as a result of people assuming it was a conspiracy - and I didn't believe there was, and as a result of that, I wound up spending a lot of the group's next meet at the same table chatting with their version of Philip Linden. (And no it didn't involve dating him )

I don't know if there's a FIC or not - I haven't been here long enough. All I can say is that I'm not that bothered if there is - general in-world "network effect" is a far greater problem for emerging creativity than some possibly-imaginary conspiracy involving LL. And the fact that every time I've talked to a Linden they've seemed friendly and reasonable.

But - I am interested in the debate, and learning from it, and thus have an interest in making sure that the arguments are logical, thus my fuss about the DD thing.

What I find ironic about Kim's parody post is that it's not the supposed FIC who discourage potential content creators with hopeless "feted" talk. It's those who propagate the FIC theory with unwaivering dedication who send a crystal clear message to new users:

The FIC has success tied up in Second Life.
The Developer Directory is a sham.
There are no opportunities in SL for new users.
Your hard work and talents will go unrewarded.
You may as well not try.

The ones who listen to these claims and take them seriously start off immediately with crippled morale (and tragically, Linden Lab is one of these listeners.) Industrious users who ignore the dire doom and gloom are more likely to move on to find success in SL (and shortly thereafter, become accused of being FIC.)

(nod) I was very shocked when I heard that some advocates of the FIC theory had been attacking newbie help groups on the grounds that they shouldn't encourage people into the supposed "awfulness" of SL. That's just.. unacceptable.

There are newbies who seem to be succeeding, so I just figure, either there is no FIC, it doesn't matter, or there is one in which they need to be helped more to get to be successful, not turned off. There are successful folks who aren't FIC or aren't on the DD (in fact it appears from the application page that you have to be successful first in order to get into the DD) and I don't see any reason to put people off trying for that :|

Now, if someone wanted to run a webstore bigger than SLEx, own more land than Anshe, start a completely original Gorean/Furry/Vampire area, or something like that then they might need a bit of a reality check - but that's network effect, not FICdom.

I've not ignored the dire doom and gloom, it was more of a 'what are they talking about?' kind of confusion whenever I came across the subject.

I'm not jetting around the world (yet) based upon my level of Second Life success, but not doing too badly, either I suppose.

My plan back in September was to be able to cover my 25 USD a month tier for 4096m, within one year's time.

Since then: I'd had a picture of one of my houses (with pricetag) as a photo in Newsweek, landed in the Herald (re: the tulips), and have been able to buy a sim with the proceeds of my SL business. Which is now full of happy villagers, and the second sim will be coming soon to satisfy the waiting list.

I've never socialised, pestered, consorted or slept with Lindens.

Success? Not really, in the grand scheme of things. Lot of folk doing far better - just look at the private island map for proof. But I'm happy - better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, yes?

However, I'll never be called FIC - it's not a problem that Desmond has. We *all* know that FIC are beta members.

In our continuing effort to improve the experience of this thread, me and Cory have booked page 20 of the thread for more cowbell.

Hopefully, this should help to act as a little Developer Incentive to the thread overall.


Features:

Body hair and tan
Cowbell
Lust
And havoc too (god I'm funny)


Thank you


PS - The ones that say nice things to me will receive special treatment throughout the duration of the thread.


Your thread, your exageration.

Tiny Seadog was accepted to the DD with no more than 3 custom jobs (if that) to our collective name and a lot of individual work in our portfolio - most of the stuff I had done previous to that was for free. We never got a single "real job" until we were listed there.

I'm sure LL *does* reserve the right not to list you on the DD, because that list is (again) a representation of what one would hope are quality and professional organizations. Anyone can fill out one-word answers to the application, send in a screenshot of their plywood cube and send it off. Is it really so much to ask of residents that want to be considered for larger/high profile jobs to work their asses off, just like a real job would require them to?

And Moopf, one specific instance that you know of where a job went to someone that wasn't on the developer's list does not a sham of the system make. There's no guarantees that every job is going to go to someone on the DD - you get on that list if you want to be considered, and that's not anywhere close to a promise of work. If its a job that another organization is better suited to do, even if they aren't on the DD, then why should it go to anyone else? Again, this is LL as a business - which is how other businesses see them, not a government or a country or anything else that certain residents might like to see them as.


And yes, Yuki, you're right - there are new players making real bank in SL and they're doing it through talent and tremendous output. I can think of a few off the top of my head that are making more than me, easily.

Point taken and, purely out of real interest, have you, or do you know of anybody else on that developer list, got a lead from being on it?

I would like to add something, for clarity. Any project with Linden input or organisation in it I'd run a mile from after my experiences with Stagecoach Island. That's why I didn't get involved in the project I mentioned earlier, even though I was asked numerous times to be involved. "Piss up", "couldn't organise" and "brewery" come to mind. I don't have any confidence in the ability of Linden Lab to do anything other than (a) oversell the platform, (b) fail to give the required support.

That's also why I've never been interested in getting listed on that Developer page. Well that and I really don't think that Second Life is viable currently for the sort of projects I would be seeking to bring in-world. I certainly don't have the confidence in Linden Lab's ability to maintain a stable platform and service level, which reduces my wish to also partake in what would be overselling the system to the markets I would wish to.

If I don't have confidence in the provider, I'm certainly not going to put my neck on the line with a client and try and sell it to them.

I have gotten several calls from companies who told me they were just going down the list calling people. We submitted 2 proposals last month from clients who told us they were doing that. We won one bid, and lost the other.