Will the Laboratory Ban Me

Incompetent spoiled privileged "revolutionaries" who hold and espouse strong opinions on things they don't understand, mouth empty revolutionary slogans, and who bring no solutions to the table - like you - only annoy those of us with gumption, brains, and real issues to tackle. Linden Labs shouldn't ban you - you should just /go away/ of your own accord. Do you know no shame?

What you are drawing attention to is your own lack of understanding of the issues involved. You'll get what you want at the same time that SL runs on a PS3, X-Box 360, or a DVD player.

It would be fair, consistent, transparent, and responsible if you'd bothered to do some real work or thought instead of rail against a strawman of your own imagining, thinking that Linden Labs is your own personal DRM developer and legal team.

Mooch, Hulch, (or whatever), I am devastated to hear of your impending execution. I hope that you will see the light and convert swiftly to Hinduism, so that on your demise you may return to your 3rd/4th/or however manyeth life as some other creature.

If you are lucky you may come back as a cockroach.

As someone who has also been a victim of flaws in LL's forum moderation system, may I respectfully suggest that Hooch and I both know what we're talking about, and you don't?

Lewis

well, thanks to unreges, i can come back in any form i choose

Why do people *always* say this? I am so sick of hearing it. It is always irrelevant. We've wasted countless hours expressing our opinions of what they *should* do. They obviously don't care what *we* *think* they *should* do. How many more years are we going to continuing stupidly debating with ourselves as they go their merry way?

Well come to think of it, that's how one rules, by effectively keeping the people divided and confused. The forums, fostering a false sense of ownership and privacy, lack of inworld communication and web connectivity, and seriously delayed group tools certainly facilitate that objective. Maybe their not as stupid as ***Warning Warning Suspension Alert*** and Elror; but that's another story altogether.

ty lewis

this person , Finning Widget, does not know me or my history and would rather act like a know it all and hurl insults

i would guess they havent read the transcripts, much less tried to deal with a mistake on LLs part

also, this persons "real issues to tackle" prolly revolve around not being able to figure out whether to use the pink or blue poseballs, which dance pad to use, not being able to find the correct bling and hoochie hair, and how to get her howllzzzz gesture to work

obviously Finning Widget, someone who has access to philip linden entrusted me enough to hand me the transcript... so you really, truly are the ignorant one in this case

reread your post and direct it to yourself, for as far as i can tell, you are describing yourself to a T

and maybe add some salt or hot sauce... neither crow nor ones own shoe is very tasty without condiments

I never said that the moderation system was any good - I dislike the notion of resmods /intensely/. What /he/ is on about is Philip Linden talking about making a technical solution to secure textures from thieves, and all-around IP theft in general.

Philip Linden honestly said - according to this person's 'smuggled' transcript - that there /is/ no technical solution. I'm fully aware of this, I deal with IP law day in and day out, computer technology day in and day out, DRM issues day in and day out. I used to deal with computer security issues, day in and day out.

Even if LL encrypted their data stream from server to client software, there's still people (crackers) who specialise in pulling the textures (data) out of memory (because, under windows, there are APIs that will allow any process thread to IPC to any other process thread, or you can just suck them out of the swap file, or instigate a memory dump), so you'd have to encrypt the textures /in memory/ and even /then/, LL would have to develop a proprietary GL layer that receives encrypted textures and decodes them in the (signed, approved, LL developed) GL layer - this is not LL's business and will break SL on roughly 90% of the machines it runs on now, and will make SL run like a pig, and will break every person's machine by replacing /a device driver/ - Device Drivers are /not/ Linden Labs' business. Plus, there's making the same driver for each and every platform and hardware variance. The alternative is to use a closed system - That'd be something like the PS3, X-Box, or a DVD player. Good luck getting the entirety of a SL client to run on any one of those systems. The licensing fee for the development tools would kill any attempt outright, not to mention killing bug fixes, updates, security patches, and feature improvements.

So, until the /actual computer client/ can get data from memory to the display without it being interceptable (By having a secure graphics display layer, which /does not exist/ at this time), any other effort by Linden Labs is merely due diligence and won't /stop/ the problem.

I am glad that /you/ are respectful in your suggestion. I take mighty offense that /he/ is terribly /irrespectful/ in his suggestions and ignorant in what he's claiming. He's claiming that Philip Linden is malicious in his assertion that there's nothing Linden Labs can do. I know better.

Respectfully, I submit to you that my motto - used liberally in the response you're responding to - is Don't Hold Strong Opinions About Things You Don't Understand. I respectfully submit to you that if I'm chastising $troll, /there's a reason/. And that it's good.

If Linden Lab won't do anything about the problem of texture theft, then why do they continue to say that they will protect you and your content?

There is never "no technical solution" to any computer based problem, it's the time, cost and the willingness to tackle it that's the problem. We can't make a solution, except to not bother to upload anything any more ... so it is up to Linden Lab, who appear to have decided to completely ignore the issue. Otherwise they need to change the advertising to reflect the fact that anyone can steal anything you own, and you're SOL to do anything about it with no help from then whatsoever.

It is perhaps part of the 'economy' that turns people to theft of other people's work, so that they can make easy money out of someone else's work. Unfortunate, but a reflection on modern society of wanting something for nothing, and I can at least be grateful that I don't need to sink that low to enjoy myself in SL.

Lewis

That is an interesting question. Considering how easily the permission system can be gotten around (especially when it comes to clothing/textures), the permissions do nothing more than give a false sense of security to creators. Unfortunately, it is a reality of the digital world.

Apple and Microsoft have put extensive DRM into music files, yet all those protections can be easily bypassed with several different programs. Even things like hardware dongles on expensive high end programs have been cracked. DRM will always be a cat and mouse game, even with hardware solutions. The sheer fact that things can be copied and distributed endlessly with no cost to do so per copy makes digital content so attractive to steal.

So people can keep asking how Linden Lab can stop texture theft, but this problem has yet to be solved perfectly by any company, including those with far more resources than LL.

They /do/ do things to protect people's IP/content. There's the permissions system. There is a legally enforceable contract that eveyone who plays SL - everyone who accesses the service - agrees to. They do DMCA takedown requests. They do /everything in their power/. They do not exist /solely/ to act on DMCA takedown requests and counter-requests. They don't exist solely to file claims against IP thieves - that's the right and duty of the IP holder.
There may be a technical solution to the use of GLIntercept, but it's not in Linden Labs' purview to tackle - a secure graphics rendering layer is something that an entire industry - nVidia, ATI, graphics processor developers in general - would have to tackle.
They're /already looking at it/ because /everyone/ with content - not just SL'ers - wants to close "the analog hole" to keep people from pirating movies, pictures, books, video/audio/text /period/. That's the RIAA, MPAA, And other four-letter-acronym publishing conglomerates. Their answer is: Closed playback systems. PS3. X-Box. end-to-end secure from the disk to memory, from the server to the client, from the box to the (HD) display.

Their estimates for when such a system will be ready and available to widespread use: 2009. Thier inclusion of the PC platform in same rollout: 0.

Or, you know, a lot of competent graphics layer coders could get together and develop a working proof-of-concept and start an open source movement that enables this to happen.

*listens intently*

he also said he wouldnt do a thing to help in dispute resolution

while he told the chicks they had nice asses

thats the issue

he blew them off and confused the issue, running circles around them to divert them from the fact that he isnt willing to do a damn thing to protect his unpaid labor that fills his world with content, at no expense to him

he tells them to fend for themselves while he uses their talent to make money, and he wont help them protect thier interest... their content is his pride but their plight aint his problem

and/ quit/ talking/ in/ slashes/ you/ android

he told them it wasnt his problem... and niether will his content creaters soon with a fucked up attitude like that

way to repay the people who filled his lonely empty world

get it yet?

or are u still trying to program a better mousetrap?

What /I/ read is that they've done steps A-X of securing these people's content, and that /there is nothing else they can do/ at the present time. It's not their /job/ to file suit on behalf of an IP holder - that right and responsibility lies solely with the IP holder. Linden Labs does not have /any/ power of attorney from content creators or users. They've done /what they can/ to secure content and anything else is beyond their abilities, both /technically/ and /legally/. What content creators in SL have to do now, /just like every other content creator everywhere in the world on every system/, is step up and /help forge a technical solution/ or /undertake a legal process/ to stop the thieves.

I've written technical solutions to keep thieves out of systems where it was my profession to do so. I've taken part in legal processes to hunt down and catch and prosecute thieves who made their way around the technical solutions. I have /zero/ illusions about where Linden Labs stands in the dispute between content creators and content thieves. You have /many/, and after they've been stripped we are left with one singular shining fact: You have a hard-on hate for Linden Labs. Goodie for you! That doesn't give you a license to misrepresent someone's intentions, nor to plead to us that we should share in your ignorance. If you don't care for what Linden Labs has done for you, then I invite you to stop whingeing and show them up.

You'll have a long wait. It's not my job to help Linden Lab solve a problem with their software, especially when I am paying them rather than them paying me.

A simple detection call every few minutes to check for known texture theft exploit programs running in memory could shut down SL, similar to the way that Punkbuster works for cheaters in other games. Performance loss would be minimal, it is non-intrusive, does not infringe privacy, and if it's put in as a new ToS clause like the "hardware hash" where you accept or don't play any more, would solve the problem.

After all, if you aren't running any exploit software in the background, why would you be worried about SL checking to see if any are running? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Lewis

Hurl. Insults. Hmmm. Please, can you show me one place where I have insulted you? No? Perhaps that's because I've been too busy disassembling your twisted rants.
Hm. "Hoochie". "bling". "howllzzz". Eeeeexactly where did you get the idea that any of that describes me? Oh, yes - your fair play imagination.

See, that would be cool, except that it requires a maintained database of known exploit programs (which someone would have to maintain) and constant vigilance on the part of cracker insiders (undercovers) to get new versions to be hashed and fingerprinted. Plus, it's a reactive solution. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, it would just require a group of people working together in a concerted effort, with talented coders and a large base of privileged contributors. If it's going to be part of the ToS, it would have to be run and maintained by LL inherently. That's an extra expense and maintenance system, and would actually produce something of a performance hit on some systems.

Now, here's the problem with that solution: Virtualised hardware.

If my entire /raison d'etre/ is to steal textures from someone, I'm going to be able to run VirtualPC on my PC, run SL within the VirtualPC, and that acts as a sandbox wherein the cheater-detector is limited - but textures still have to get to my display, which passes through to the real graphic interpreter layer, where I intercept it. Frame rate: Teh suck. Texture intercept: Teh win!

The hardware hash - which I honestly don't know the details of but which I infer is based on gathering details about the hardware and brewing a secret sauce - seems like a better solution to me. It doesn't stop the first or fiftieth texture theft, but it stops a given machine from accessing the network, and if we know a given machine is used by a texture thief, that's one less texture thief. Cost of new machine: expensive. Economic incentive: gone. They /could/ be running inside a virtualised environment, but they'd need to take a long and slow process of attempting variations, or crack the brewing of the secret sauce (the hardware hash) to do so. Plus identified texture thieves have given their entire identity to Linden Labs, which is subpoenable.

I forget: Unless they're generating new, disposable virtualised environments each time for their new, disposable alt account from inside their large, commercial ISP that gives them a different IP address every time they power cycle their router.

alright

/108/2b/125617/2.html#post1188927




"incompetent"
"spoiled"
"privileged"
"don't understand"
"mouth empty revolutionary slogans, and who bring no solutions to the table - like you"
"only annoy those of us with gumption, brains, and real issues to tackle" -implication that i have no gumption, brains, or real issues

at least six insults, so you are correct, i cant show you only one

thanks/ for/ showing/ your/ ass/ and/ making/ yourself/ look/ foolish/ and/ lying/ about/ it

so, how big is your nose getting?

Anti-cheating measures are an inherent part of many other games, run by other game companies, so I don't see it as being an insurmountable issue.

I'm quite sure that there are also enough of us that care about the issue to happily keep our eye out on other forums for mention of these exploit programs and give LL a tip off when we hear of a new version or something.

Honestly... do you really believe that the programmers working on cutting edge hardware and software are incapable of disassembling something usually written by amateurs?

Lewis

You apparently either don't even read them yourself or else (and my money is on this one) you intentionally use statements out of context and/or twist them (for instance, naming a thread "Philip Linden Teaches People How to Steal Content" in a poor attempt to justify your inflamatory spam. The problem with you (and others) doing this is that it opens the possibility that the genuine threads about things like poor moderation and content theft will be lost in the noise. If you're really concerned about these topics (I have my doubts...but I'd like you to prove me wrong) then start posting in a constructive manner.

Oh, and I think you fail to realize that someone can be for your cause but still be against your method.


Nice try (though I'd dispute that it's really "non-intrusive", but there are plenty of ways to get around a system like that. The easiest one I can think of would be to just dump the data stream while logged into SL and feed the dump to a texture theft program once you log off of SL. One could even dump the stream to a completely separate machine from the one running SL on so there's not any chance that the SL client would find any evidence of any theft apps.

See, for those to be insults, they'd have to first be inaccurate descriptions of you.
A: Right on.
B: Mmmm Right on after I read your diatribes on second citizen
C: I'm sorry, is the loss of thirty cents in sales per annum taking food from your mouth? Let's step that a hundred fold - thirty dollars per annum? a thousand - three hundred per annum? I know of people who feed themselves for three hundred per annum. Thirty cents is a big deal to them. YOU - presumedly - have enough leisure time and disposable income to have a licensed version of Photoshop (that's why you're concerned about your textures being stolen, right?). Car? House? Shoes? Health Care? Are your sales through Second Life paying for any of these things?
D: Don't understand - demonstrated!
E: Your /modus operandi/.
F-a: Demonstrate them;
F-b: You do annoy us.

Hallelujah and seconded.



Huzzah!

your/ opinion/, my /dear/, means /shit/ to/ me/... and/ they/ are/ indeed/ opinions/, and/ as/ such/ an/ insult/. several/ as/ a/ matter/ of/ FACT/, not/ opinion/

perhaps you should learn the difference between the 2 before you shoot your/mouth/off

Im glad your reading them.



I make no content, but i have numerous friends who do and are affected by this

but of course of vulcan cant empathize, ins't/that/correct/Miss/ spock



us?

wtf, are there more than one of you running around inside your head?

take a look at the poll

a significant amount of people think i should be rewarded for this

i am sorry if your robotic head obscures your view

i fully expect your next post to be in binery

01000100011011110010000001110011011011110110110101100101011101000110100001101001
01101110011001110010000001100011011011110110111001110011011101000111001001110101
01100011011101000110100101110110011001010010000001101111011100100010000001010011
01010100010001100101010100100000001011010010000001111001011011110111010100100111
01110010011001010010000001100100011010010111001101110100011100100110000101100011
01110100011010010110111001100111001000000111000001100101011011110111000001101100
01100101001000000110011001110010011011110110110100100000011100100110010101100001
011011000010000001101001011100110111001101110101011001010111001100101110

wow, who knew borgs suffering from multiple personality disorder could have a sense of humor?

She's right.