Protests Against SL TOS?

I have no idea what happened, but your credibility is exactly zero.

Now, that statement right there is defamation!

Do people realize just how WRONG it is to accuse people of being fascists, or comparing them to Hitler or Mussolini or Pol Pot, or whatever, is?

Aside from the Godwin's law issues, when you do something like this you are comparing a set of people to some of the worst monsters the human race has ever produced.

Hank, I haven't been on here long enough to know what you're pissed about, but it would seem to this newbie that you're going off the deep end making this kind of comparison.

Actually under the forum guidelines, which state that comments such as liar, crook, etc..are discouraged but will not be removed, Chip's statement would be acceptable - he is saying he does not believe you.

Well I am gleaning from this that you probably used that "F" word that refers to that type of government run by guys with moustaches reminicent of Carlie Chaplin, in which case it would be inflammatory.

I would agree on principle that one should be allowed to protest, but agree with others on this thread that the unfortunate reality is you might be asked to take it "outside the building." This efffectively leaves you with no right to protest at all of course because "outside the building" in this case is some other internet list that no one reads and where no one would care. This is the nature of the dictatorship that is the average American Corporation unfortunately.

I must say I am more than a bit disturbed by what I understand their original actions are in your case as well as a couple other similar incidents I have heard of through the grapevine and I would suggest you contact a lawyer about it (the original altering of the database). A court order (if granted) would give you acces to any internal memos or emails or messages about who said what and who decided what.

The other alternative (also not that realistic) would be to take the protest outside the actual Linden Labs offices in San Fransisco. There is no one who can stop you walking up and down outside Philips offices with a sandwich board.

Also, to support your original point, if LL truly believes this is a virtual world, I would like to see them support protest in this manner. I dont know if LL has a presence "in-world" similar to their real world headquarters, but if they do it would seem an appropriate and decent thing to allow avatars to virtually wear virtual sandwich boards and hand out virtual leaflets in front of it.

That seems to be a fair solution to these kinds of dissagreements to me.

I never compared LL to Hitler, Mussolini, or Pol Pot. I was exposing the tactics and government structure of the Second Life world as being, by definition, fascist. But that's another thread in the SL Political Science forum. This thread (like so many people here quickly derailed) is about whether Linden Lab should be immune from protests.

I'd say any protest you would be involved in would have a small chance of succeeding.


I'd say prove me right, but you already have, numerous times.

I'm sorry Hank, but you've pretty much lost all credibility. What happened in the past between former friends was unfortunate, but you've really taken this all way too far. It might be better for your mental health to retire from SL for a while; its clearly not doing your mental health any good hanging around here, in the place which should be entertaining and relieving.

How many whining threads are you gunning for? This is about the 50th I've seen.

-Flip

Well, it was a nasty thing between former friends that unfortunately also involved Linden Labs using their God powers to help those former friends do what they did. That's my point, the reason I'm protesting. I'm not protesting the former friends, that's water under the bridge.

So why are you attacking Chip and others in your "Is SL fascist?" thread - which is relevant to this considering you are in world protesting that Linden Lab is running a fascist world.

I assumed it was merely for comedy value. It's by far the funniest thing I've read on the forums in ages.

Actually, it's the other way around. Other people like Chip and youself are attacking me for having the audacity to ask the question "Is SL Fascist?". I asked a question, you guys replied, I replied to your replies, etc. I don't remember the thread starting with "Chip and others are fascist". Nope, don't see that statement anywhere.

Actually, in my quick response, I didn't really mean Chip specifically in that circumstance and particular thread. For that I apologize

Thanks, Hank. No apology needed. I seriously laughed my ass off.

I asked earlier - who told you this protest was against the TOS?

coco

Wow! Was that all coordinated in the #secondlife IRC chatroom? I saw a flurry of #secondlife regulars show up in the forums after I posted this thread, and then all the responses from the usual suspects.

/me readjusts his tinfoil hat...

Harry Linden

It is what it is

I assume you know this. All the histrionics are not necessary. If LL feels like you may be negatively impacting their business through your actions, expect them to act accordingly. LL is actually very tolerant, but they do have limits.

Well, I would need to know what your sign said.

At the SL 2nd birthday party, I did a spontaneous sit-down strike in protest of the FIC signs that greeted me upon my arrival.

A bunch of people gathered. Eventually Prok came along. At one point, someone was suggesting having a sit-down protest was against TOS. Prok pressed the Linden on whether or not that was true, and the Linden said he didn't know, he'd have to find out.

A bit later, he said, "No, it is not against TOS."

Which of course it isn't.

I'm pointing out that not all Lindens know what is or isn't against TOS.

But what your signs actually SAID would also have a great deal to do with it, and that would often be a judgment call.

For example, if I had sat there with a sign saying, "Hitler was right! Down with Jews!" I would have been without question against TOS.

Your signs may be in an iffier area; I don't know what they said. It could well be that the message crossed the line. In which case, I would suggest rewriting the message so that it doesn't.

coco

As others have pointed out, LL is remarkably tolerant of what vitrol their users toss at them. In your case, Hank, I would imagine that you're turning into a one-trick pony with this, and they're just getting tired of it.

Either buck up and live your life, or take a break/retire from SL. Harping on a single issue repeatedly, over and over and over again, especially when the harping includes calling LL facists, isn't a "protest". Its a vendetta, and one that doesn't reflect positively on a healthy balance in your life(s).

The answer is more like:

3. A business entity, answerable to investors, which needs to establish and protect revenue streams in order to survive.

As such, when a tipping point is reached where the bad PR they'll glean from kicking you off the property is exceded by the pain they get from continuing to put up with your protests... well, just like the MacDonalds protesters.... don't expect your feet to touch the floor on the way out.

Again, that is the same as Choice #1.

What it really comes down to is the policing powers of SL. SL wants to just be known as the "technology" company that designs and develops the SL software. They have said that they want to spread out the SL world so that others can actually "own" the servers that their sims run on. SL wouldn't police those worlds.

However, in the SL world (the current adult and teen grids, other than the Wells Fargo and possibly other grids out there), SL acts as the government. They are the police, dictators, judges, and jury for all actions inside of the world in addition to creating the technology. They want to have it both ways: be considered a new world/frontier, allow for expansion, but yet have a tight grip of control on it's content.

Hank, I happen to believe your allegations regarding the unjustified "taking" that you claim - not because I saw evidence - just at the time of the events I never had reason to doubt your word.

However, and I do intend this with as much friendly concern as possible, I do think that you've let this get to you too much. Assuming that you are 100% true and accurate in your claims, it would be an injustice, but not worth the angst that it seems to keep causing you. Also, even if totally true, you are not likely to see redress at this point and your posts are looking quite bitter. For your sake, please step back; not every injustice can or will be rectified.

Please note, my believing Hank does not therefore mean that I disparage any other players. That may sound contradictory, but feelings can sometimes be that way.

So you clearly understand this and you are now protesting what? That the progress toward LL's ultimate goal hasn't been achieved?

Why are you having trouble reconciling what LL wants SL to end up being and what it is now?

I disagree. SL is clearly more than a game, but by the same measure, it'll always be somewhat less than the "alternate world" that the marketing department would have you believe. The "world" of SL exists as a bubble within the real world outside. As such, it will always - ultimately - defer to the pressures exherted on it by the outside - be they the "legal" realities of the outside world (cf the recent hubland buy-back reparations), or commercial realities of the outside world (if they don't turn a profit, they WILL, eventually, cease to exist). Ignoring these factors under the guise of "we're an independant nation - we don't have to abide by your steeenking meatspace rules" is just... well.. naive in the extreme...

So, I stand by my original answer. It's neither 1 nor 2.



"new frontier" is great for marketing, "tight grip of control" is great for profit - all in all, "having it both ways" sounds like a pretty sound business plan to me... and don't fool yourself over this.... they ARE having it both ways...