Overlooked?

Seems to me that everyone's complaining about a downtime with a lack of substatntial updates, but you're missing one thing...
From http://secondlife.com/knowledgebase/article.php?id=191:

Haven't y'all been begging for this for a while after we went to open regs?

Expect a lot more people complaining as they are suddenly lumped in the "unverified = griefer" category wrongly.

I have an alt with no payment information on file, who has never griefed anyone or any intention of - yet I can see them being automatically banned from many places simply because of this.

I am quite sure that any security system that bumps people or sends them home simply for not having payment details will be reportable as abuse - and I for one will make sure that I report every one that I find.

Frankly, it is blatant discrimination, which is one of the "big six" community standards that is not supposed to happen in SL - yet LL provide a discriminatory tool as part of their game functions?

Mind boggles.

Lewis

I'm not complaining at all. But I'm hoping that this update will fix the fast-as-snail-with-superglued-foot editing when the script is large.

IMO it would be advisable for any mainland mature content vendor to script in a payment info check into their vendors.

AFAIK precisely why the payment info was made available.

Two, myself. Though one will not see light of day outside of the forum... probably.

Back in your cage, Tikki Replacement!

Me, too, Lewis. And the funniest thing is that my unverified alt has spent more money on stuff than my main account (this one) has in the past couple of years! Oh, well, their loss. (You also made an interesting point about AR'ing the automatic TPs and bumps; I will have to consider doing that, as well.)

To those with alts with no payment info on file why not just provide the info for the alts you don't have to use it as long as its on file you are a verified member.
I have a few alts my self and all have payment info on file.

From http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/06/27/update-open-registration:

Future releases of Second Life will allow Residents to decide if they want to allow accounts which are essentially anonymous (no payment information given to us at registration except email address) to access their parcel.

I don't know why using a deliberately-added feature for its intended use would be reportable as abuse.

Ejections from private parcels can be reportable, but it depends more on how it's done than why. Summarized from /invalid_link.html , any ejection that crashes a player's program, throws a player a great distance, or ejects a player with no previous infractions immediately with no advance warning or delay so he can voluntarily leave is reportable as abuse, regardless of the reason for the ejection and regardless of whether it was automatically or manually initiated. I find no mention made as to what criteria are valid for basing ejection decisions on (though as I've said, payment information status was explicitly added as such a criterion).


The "big six" behaviors prohibited by the community standards are intolerance (specifically of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, and sexual orientation), harassment, assault, disclosure, indecency, and disturbing the peace. IMO, filtering visitors or customers based on criteria that have a positive correlation to griefing is closer to private access lists, which I don't believe anyone would consider "intolerance", than it is to bigotry and racial slurs.

On top of that, (and this isn't just opinion), any vendor selling mature merchandise needs to filter off something now to cover his backside legally, and CC information is the only thing they can use that carries legal weight. Plus anyone who's filtering to keep griefers away should realize he'll get a lot fewer false positives if he filters off verification status and avatar age combined. That means less bad reputation (and, for stores, less boycotting).

After being griefed repeatedly by a griefer continually making alts harrassing me and a neighbor and friend of mine (and I suspect but cannot prove this griefer person as underage to boot - I am fairly sure the person is a teenager, unsure if they are over or under 18 though), and griefing me at more than just my property but even where I also frequent with friends and my neighbors properties, I have limited some of my land to payment info on file in the interest of adding one more layer of protection to enhance my SL experience. And boy, has it helped! Lots less annoying distractions now that I limited to payment info on file. It's way better than limiting to group, because I don't filter out the verifieds and my neighbors in the area who need to pass and may want to play on my beachfront. For them my land is open, as long as they remain polite. It seems to me to be the best way to filter, way better than limiting to access list.

If you don't like it and want to cross property limited to payment info on file or higher, I suggest using your main account to do your exploring. I personally do not have an alt that's unverified and have NO INTENTION EVER to have one unverified

However, I did leave a pair of corrodors where folks can pass, and that's about as generous as I am going to get.

I PAY for my mainland property to the tune of 100 a month, its not your decision how those of us who click the option to filter on payment status, until you get generous enough to pay our tiers, too. (which IMO I don't see happening )

If there is something similar to ban lines that says "unverified not allowed" or similar, then that is one thing - but if it is just a modified security system like people use to "protect" skyboxes, then I will consider that as much a griefing tool.

Regardless of what certain players may think, if something acts on my avatar without my permission, and causes unwanted behaviour, then it is griefing. I have never understood why you need permission to hug someone, but you can blast them 3 sims away without a blink of an eye.

The only good side of this whole thing is that for a push security system to work, then the landowner needs to enable push - thus opening themselves up to attack from genuine griefers.

If Linden Lab start getting overwhelmed with abuse reports from security systems that cause grief targetted at unverified players, then maybe they will listen to us and change their view. There are far more of us who feel the right to roam is important, over and above the rabid few that feel they have the right to grief others simply because they pay for a plot of land.

Lewis

Actually, I think a push script owned by the landowner will work whether the land is push enabled or not. But I could be wrong, I'm too tired to search. LOL *shrugs*

Whilst I understand your reasoning for taking that action in your specific case, do you understand my objection to being lumped in the same category as all the griefers, when my alt avatar is completely innocent and troubles nobody?

Lewis

Life isn't fair. Them are the breaks, use your main account if you want to play on the beach I don't invite perfect strangers into my RL house either, but I manage to keep my sidewalk clear for public passage. That's basically what I've done - provided narrow areas to get past via the water so that its not completely blocked - I control a contiguous area that's over 1/4 of a sim wide, so its the least I could do.

I am sick of the kids, might clear up once summer ends, but for now I'm tired of BS.

This is correct. Push works if its owned by the landowner. But my security scripts over the skybuild TP home after a warning, I find that works better. Autoreturn sends whatever vehicle they used back to their inventory, so nothing lost either.

It's rare that my security scripts have actually nailed someone as they only cover the area necessary (not the entire parcel, that wouldn't be right), and all the people it's nailed have richly deserved it. (save for one time I forgot to switch it to targets when a friend tp'ed another friend over... quickly resolved!)

I do have genuine reasons for using an alt instead of my main - a bit of peace and quiet from a barrage of IM's from friends, or people harrassing me because I speak my mind on the forums. I need to check whether I'll be charged for upgrading them with payment details like they used to.

Lewis

Personally i consider if you are in my Private sim i shouldn't need any permissions from you to do whatever i feel needed or right, itsnot to the visitor to dictate his rules in my place. (and i hope linden labs will give more control over visitors to estate owners in the future)


Since the pushes are made by the owner, he desn't need to change the push restriction, the owner of a place can push you even if push restriction is active.



you have so many problems with others to be so agressive on your rights Lewis?
why not getting your alt verified, exepted for having the pleasure to play martyr with it?

Specifically: "any ejection that .... ejects a player with no previous infractions immediately with no advance warning or delay so he can voluntarily leave is reportable as abuse, regardless "

This does not constitue abuse. Merely ejecting with no push requires no warning. I have investigated this thoroughly with live help on several occaisions.

It is recommended that in such cases the land's Safe Zone restriction be removed.

Personally, I'd like to see LL extend the FREEZE time of landowner options to PERMANENT, with the option being left open for avatars to TP only. And allowing the"freezee" the ability to speak instead of locking up chat as well. No need for this as Mute works well if needed and talking to someone who you Froze might clear up a lot of misunderstandings.

TP can be done P2P so said person could open the map and TP just outside the landowners land to avoid being "frozen" again. Since camera panning is disabled while frozen, this would prevent "peeping toms" and other forms of privacy invasion.

With a sufficiant warning time, this would be a preferable method of security systems imo. TP-Home is a bit over-reactive (esspecially if it's a flyer who is lagging and gets ejected out of thier vehicle), and Push isn't that much better.

As for giving sufficiant warning; that depends ont he situation. A flyer lagging, yes. No need for warning really. If I see that I'll turn my system off as fast as possible to avoid ejecting them (if it's on. I only have mine on when I'm there and desire privacy). If someone is flying circles around my skybox and I notice thier look points are roaming inside (easy to see with Debug>Character>ShowLookAt) then that person is getting a one-way TP-Home ride, or orbited.

LL has a problem with that, tuff! When I see a working law enforcement system in SL I'll let them handle things like that. Until then, I'll enforce my peace my own way. LL gave us chaos, so chaos they shall get. It IS getting better. Push Restriction was a big step. A bigger, and better step would be to halt Open Registration and chalk it up to one of the dumbest things ever done that detrimentally affected SL so much.

~Jessy *armed and sexy*

Personally, I have never seen a flyer loitering around my skyboxes who wasn't a griefer, and I've owned the property for months. Flyers who come through my areas legitimately don't generally fly where my boxes are, when they do they are in and out fast, and they prefer being in sight of the ground where it's far more interesting to be and where it's totally clear for them to fly.

Based on that experience, my security is remaining set on TP home. As my boxes have no doors, I have had it where some idiot let himself in on a cube to harrass me and my friend. He was a griefer and he deserved TP home. It stays on 24 hours as I am not the only person who is allowed to be in my skyboxes, they are sometimes in use when I'm not around.

Then why haven't you verified that account? If you don't wanna be associated with underage teens and griefers YOU will have to do something about it other then complain. All but one of my alts are verified, the one that isn't stays to one sim I help run as its just a bank alt.

These lsl features are basicly being treated like Temp-On-Rezzers back a few months ago. This kind of thing will ALWAYS be a double edged sword, can be used for good or bad. Since LL decided they're tired of taking care of their residents and no longer wish to take responsability for filtering out underage teens these tools are essential now a days. Personally I would love to see this account verification system used in adult rated vendors and weapons vendors. Not verified? No pr0n for you. Not verified and under 30 days old? Well you'll just have to deal with a waiting period before you can buy that no trans super weapon.

Agreed ont eh first part. That's why I said as I did. Most flyers go in and out and no problem. But some can lag (for various reasons) or even hit your skybox and need a few seconds to right themselves and move on. Possibly even a few more as they type and appollogy (that has happened to me). If your skybox is at a level that doesn't get hit, great. Wish I had got that lucky lol

As for the griefer on the box. Yes. TP-Home there was needed, but then again, as it was personal, there was no need for the security system to do it either *shrugs* Personal choice of methods.




You can always set the Security Orb to allow your friends to operate while you are offline. That way it can be use by them and turned off when no one is there. It would also let them add new friends if you set it that way. *shrugs* Again, personal choice, though I personaly feel unattended security systems fall into the "overreactive" catagory.

~Jessy

It's my land. I have made allowances to make it not hit people in error, and so far, it hasn't, except one time and that was an error on a friend's part quickly corrected by me. So I consider from my personal experience, that all this wretching about security orbs is just from people who haven't put proper management of them into practice, or ran into security that was set improperly. It's set properly on my land and I've had no complaints from anyone for months.

Yes, I have a group and several people besides myself are operators of the device. I'm on Central European time and the others are on US time (various time zones) - so 24 hours a day is not unreasonable. Effectively, when I am on and they are on, it's 24 hours. I'm not very coordinated at catching a griefer bouncing around to right click him to freeze/eject/tp, nor do I like games that are arcadelike (my hand eye coordination sucks) so I am thankful for security devices which do this task for me. As for leaving it on 24 hours, given the bugs I've seen in recent weeks, I am damn glad to have it around protecting builds in progress that may be stored in my boxes when I'm not around.

Flyers have obvious and really nice places where they can pass on my grounds, I merely suggest they use them. And apparantly, they do, as no legitimate flyer has ever complained, and this with my neighbor selling touring balloons.

Have to disagree there.... Having payment info on file and even used doesnt mean that someone is of age. In many places credit cards can be legally obtained by under 18s as can visa debit cards, or paypal accounts finded from a bank account.

Having payment info on file simply means.. having payment info on file - nothing more than that. It certainly doesnt carry and "legal weight" as you suggest.

I appreciate that people selling mature items would like and probably should have some mechanism for determining someones age - but this has yet to be created for ANY online system. The usual protection mechanism is warnings that you are entering a mature area and if you are underage or it is illegal to view this material in your area then you must leave now. If people dont - then you have provided the warning and the fault (and legal responsibilty) lies with them (or their parents).

Giving people warning that they are entering a mature area should be sufficient. Perhaps a big warning on a sign in the area and as they get nearer a notecard sent to them or something.

It means they lied to get into the main grid and hence a major violation of TOS. If they answered the age question correctly they'd be in the teen grid.

that being said, no, it doesn't mean they are of age, but what's the point of people not having payment info on file in a store selling adult merchandise, most of them are newbies who aren't there to buy anything, having little means to do so. (yes I am aware there might be exceptions but for the most part that's true) And adult sites, well nothing is perfect, but payment info on file is better than just letting anyone in, given that a majority of kids won't pay. Plus the disposable alt griefer factor, limiting to payment info on file just cuts down on idiots, in my experience. I'm unhappy that it catches the occasional innocent but there's not much I can do about that.