Calling out ageplayers

I marvel at your ability to be not only strident in your ignorance, but be as offensive as you can POSSIBLY manage.

As I can see no possible reason for leaving your uselessly-crusading butt off ignore, be welcome there - I hope that you achieve peace with whatever it is in yourself that you hate so much that you have to explode in constant vitriol, but I have no real belief that you will.

You are not an authority, nor even an educated opinion. You are a troll.

As such, I wish you well, and absent.

If I saw it and when I imagine seeing it, I feel a connection to pedophilia, it is how I view it, which is why I choose to never see it or have it around me. But the difference between you and me is that I am aware that this is my perception and it is NOT fact. I can not claim it as fact having not actually been inside the minds of these people. My point, which you clearly missed, is that you are expressing your opinions as if you know them to be facts.

I have read the points of view of those who participate in it and they have stated that ageplay and pedophilia are not the same thing. Did you bother to read their posts at all or did you just label them freaks and skip right over anything they had to say?

I pose a question to you personally. You say that if two adults engage in an ageplay scenerio then that means one of them is secretely a closet pedophile. So following that logic, if a man and a woman engage in a rapeplay scenerio, does that mean that one of them is secretely a rapist or that the other is secretely hoping to actually be raped?

So is that your attempt of making people that detest that kind of behavior to shut up? Not going to happen, nice try though.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe just MAYBE the ones protesting just simply want it to stop? What I find odd is that people aren't protesting, you just sit back and allow it even though performing actions in SL is a form of producing pixelated pornographic imagery and just simply roleplaying and kidding around not using sex poses, having an adult looking avatar is more playing a fantasy than acting on something that looks like a kid, acts like a kid and talks like a kid. There is a difference.

Unless Second Life's goal was to make Second Life revolve around pedophilia, I don't see why they can't make a change. If all someone does is just use second life to get off on their fantasies of having sex with children and they leave second life because Second Life took that option away, oh well...see ya. There's more to this game than that and if that is all someone wants then sorry but it's VERY safe to assume that they are pedophiles.

If Second Life enforced the rules like other games, other adult websites have to at least had age verification and someone who was into having sex with child avatars were told to stop or a default height was set to above 5"0 and they did not throw a hissy fit, stayed in the game and did something else, if they could snap out of it that easy then chances are they are what you are defending.

I can't believe people stand up for the rights of pedophiles or encourage this behavior by accepting them because even though people think somehow SL is above the rules because it's a different kind of MMO, it really isn't and if they don't address these issues soon, there won't be just a CNET article but other articles. It might bring in publicity and more pedophiles but it will also bring in unwanted attention.

A real conversation going on at the WELCOME AREA would be a great addition to those sims! They would stay because there was a sign of some intelligence there with people that can carry on a debate.

What is misunderstood about Age Play and why I can see it causes problems for SL.

Age Play is a role play for consenting adults, wherein one plays a younger age. This may be with a partner playing a young age or older. The person playing younger, in true Age Play, is likely to have a type of fixation in that age. The age fixation may or may not be sexualized. In true Age Play, an older partner is not a person who is aroused by the person being a child, but by the idea that the younger is really an adult acting like and being treated as a child. The dynamic is similar to the power balances in a Dom/Sub relationship rather than that of adult/child relationship for the adult into true Age Play.

In contrast, the Pedophile is really sexually aroused by the child or appearance of the childish.

In real life, the adult Age Player still has an adult body. The problem in SL is that an adult can have an Av that has a child appearance. That makes SL a wonderful vehicle for Age Play and a danger at the same time. An Av that looks like a child, operated by an adult we would hope, could attract both those into Age Play and those attracted to children. And looking at Age Play from the outside, there may be no outwardly observable discernable differences between true Age Play and pedophilic acts.

So, I very much understand why an adult club would object to the presence of a child avatar. There is no way to discern what is going on and the true underlying motivations of those engaged with the child avatar. I can understand why people do not want to see Age Play in public places for those same reasons. But do try to understand that Age Play in the purest form is really not at all about children, but rather about adults who mutually consent to a role-play scene. Try not to condemn Age Play as a form just because you can’t see what is really going on when it is really Age Play.

But then again, if you have no understanding of anything beyond milk toast sex, you still may not get it.

Erm... are you sure this is a good idea? A lot of people use SL to get *away* from the serious issues in their real lives... are you sure you want to welcome people to SL with debate or even information about serious issues? A lot of people treat SL as a game, and the point of games is to be fun, not to be serious.
Ok, it might attract intellectuals, but I don't think the majority of SL residents are intellectuals - I think the majority are here to have fun.





I've never quite fathomed the whole "you're saying I'm wrong, but I'm right - you just want to shut me up!" thing.
1) If they want to shut you up, they can easily just ignore you, which is far more effective.
2) Very few ageplayers even READ topics like this one because they do not care what you think at all. So, given that they're not even listening from the start, it makes no difference to them at all if you shut up or not. The only people you're arguing with are... other non-ageplayers with different views.


This baffles me, as ageplayers have encountered a lot of prostest before, as have Goreans, furries, homosexuals... none of these protests have stopped what they are protesting about. Protest is futile, the ageplayers will do what they want with no regard for what you think.


People don't protest because :
1) there are no actual children involved, it's simply adults doing consensual roleplay.
2) they realise that protesting against it makes them look like a fool and won't accomplish anything.



Peas exist. I don't like peas. I don't see why, unless Second Life's goal (SIC) was to make Second Life revolve around peas, I don't see why they can't make a change.... and ban PEAS from SL! If all someone does is just use SL to get off on fantasies of smearing their bodies in peas, and then they leave one day because we stop them buying prim peas, then oh well... see ya. There's more to this game than peas and if peas are all someone wants then sorry but it's very safe to say they're pea-doh-philes.

...

Seriously.... just because you're clueless about something doesn't mean LL should ban it. Also, if the only reason someone uses SL is to get off on fantasies of having sex with children, then firstly you should be glad they're not doing it in Real Life, and secondly they should not only leave Second Life but also see a shrink. Thankfully, ageplayers don't fall into this category. There are many times more people who roleplay kids in sexual situations, then there are adults who roleplay adults in sexual situations with ageplayers. Often the people who roleplay the sexual adult in roleplay with ageplayers actually *prefer* roleplaying the younger character - they're just doing it so they can satisfy their partner's fantasies.
So yeah, you seem to be advocating banning something which, albeit evil, is something I've never heard of actually happen in SL, which has nothing to do with ageplay even if it does happen, and which, frankly, you seem... strangely obsessed about.



Adult websites don't have to have age verification of any kind - they can always choose to host in countries where that isn't a requirement. Age verification on websites is trivial to get around anyway - pre-pay credit cards, paypal with funds posted in, lying on the "what is your birthdate?" question of the signup form...
Anyone who thinks that we should limit the minimum height of avatars to prevent people taking on child avs is going to encounter a LOT of well deserved flaming from people who play non-human avatars like dwarves, faeries, and my personal favourite, the little robot or feral furry av. Limiting height on avs to stop people using child avs is like removing the llSensor function to stop over-sensitive security scripts - it's going way, way too far.


I've never seen someone I've recognised as a pedohille in SL.
I've never seen anyone specifically stand up for the rights of pedos in SL, either.

What I have seen is ageplayers who are adults, and who play with each other, in SL, without involving other people. Hell you won't even see them unless either you go to their areas or you go to certain key areas that a great majority of SL users drop by for a few minitues - such as, for example, Ginko HQ.
Seriously, you really need to actually learn what ageplay is *about* before you assume it's related to pedophillia..... it isn't. I've been friends with several people who do various forms of ageplay for *years*, and I can assure you, they're just as uncomfortable with pedophillia as anyone else... they just realise that the two are very different.


If you're going to get really worked up about ageplay, either for or against, you should at least know what you're talking about first. Assuming that the strength of your moral feeling means you actually *understand* what you have feelings about is often a quick way to contract foot-in-mouth disease.



Wait... so you're saying that the true equivilant of calling your partner "daddy" or being spanked in RL... is two adult avatars doing the nasty in SL with one dressing and acting as a child?
Hunh?
Is that reallywhat you are saying?

I'd feel uncomfortable mixing the sexual with the virtual image of an actual child. I think most anyone would.
Thankfully, when ageplayers do sexual ageplay, almost all of them roleplay a *regressed* adult - which is an adult that has parts of their minds (and sometimes bodies) regressed back to a childish age. This means that they are not roleplaying actual children in sexual situations, they are roleplaying a sort of adult/child hybrid that retains many adult sexual traits. Ok, some of them do roleplay actual children in sexual situations. I agree, some may find that distasteful. But... there are *tonnes* of sexual practices that I personally find distasteful, or 'squicky'...... but I realise that as long as it is simply a consensual roleplay between RL adults, it's ok.



You diddn't even read my post on page one of this topic, did you?
Go on, go back and re-read it.
Pay special attention to the parts about why people do non-sexual ageplay for stress relief, enjoying a lack of responsibility and so on.



I've *seen* a picture devoted to sexual ageplay before, when I was wandering around a friend's house and saw one on the wall of their dungeon room. I found the picture distressing at first! Then I realised that the two people in the pictures were still characters of the same nice friends I'd had for a long time now, that, like any other couple who were adventerous in the bedroom, they tried on a lot of different roles. I realised that the person who was playing the 'daddy' in the situation with his 'girl' was actually a submissive 90% of the time, and thus was probably only doing it to make his partner happy. I realised how this person actually owns quite a substantial business in SL, and gets along well with *everyone* I've seen him interact with... and I realised that, frankly, the fact he's brave enough to do that kind of roleplay with his partner isn't a bad thing. Ok, it squicks me, but frankly I *know* he's not a pedophille, and I suspect that the only reason he did it at all was to please his partner's fantasy of being dressed up like a schoolgirl and raped.

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole rape thing, as personally, I prefer the soft, willing, gentle style of BDSM roleplay..... but each to their own. They're perfectly nice people.



There are pedophilles that try to disguise themselves as ageplayers, or, more usually, people who want to have sex with ageplayers. Bad people exist.
The majority of the experienced ageplay community, however, in the years I have been observing and writing about BDSM and roleplay generally, I have found ageplayers as a whole to be no more good or bad overall than the rest of us.

Wait... so you're saying that the true equivilant of calling your partner "daddy" or being spanked in RL... is two adult avatars doing the nasty in SL with one dressing and acting as a child?
Hunh?
Is that reallywhat you are saying?

I'd feel uncomfortable mixing the sexual with the virtual image of an actual child. I think most anyone would.
Thankfully, when ageplayers do sexual ageplay, almost all of them roleplay a *regressed* adult - which is an adult that has parts of their minds (and sometimes bodies) regressed back to a childish age. This means that they are not roleplaying actual children in sexual situations, they are roleplaying a sort of adult/child hybrid that retains many adult sexual traits. Ok, some of them do roleplay actual children in sexual situations. I agree, some may find that distasteful. But... there are *tonnes* of sexual practices that I personally find distasteful, or 'squicky'...... but I realise that as long as it is simply a consensual roleplay between RL adults, it's ok.



You diddn't even read my post on page one of this topic, did you?
Go on, go back and re-read it.
Pay special attention to the parts about why people do non-sexual ageplay for stress relief, enjoying a lack of responsibility and so on.



I've *seen* a picture devoted to sexual ageplay before, when I was wandering around a friend's house and saw one on the wall of their dungeon room. I found the picture distressing at first! Then I realised that the two people in the pictures were still characters of the same nice friends I'd had for a long time now, that, like any other couple who were adventerous in the bedroom, they tried on a lot of different roles. I realised that the person who was playing the 'daddy' in the situation with his 'girl' was actually a submissive 90% of the time, and thus was probably only doing it to make his partner happy. I realised how this person actually owns quite a substantial business in SL, and gets along well with *everyone* I've seen him interact with... and I realised that, frankly, the fact he's brave enough to do that kind of roleplay with his partner isn't a bad thing. Ok, it squicks me, but frankly I *know* he's not a pedophille, and I suspect that the only reason he did it at all was to please his partner's fantasy of being dressed up like a schoolgirl and raped.

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole rape thing, as personally, I prefer the soft, willing, gentle style of BDSM roleplay..... but each to their own. They're perfectly nice people.



There are pedophilles that try to disguise themselves as ageplayers, or, more usually, people who want to have sex with ageplayers. Bad people exist.
The majority of the experienced ageplay community, however, in the years I have been observing and writing about BDSM and roleplay generally, I have found ageplayers as a whole to be no more good or bad overall than the rest of us.

Ageplay (i dont mind those playing child av, im talking about the child/adult sex) in SL is very offending for those among us that have been victim of it in rl.
If you 'roleplay' this in SL it means it is alive in your fantasy, it lives between your ears and you feel the need to perform it in a virtual world.
How long till you feel the need to perform it in rl?

Get professional help asap, sickos!

I find it interesting that you feel you can speak for all victims of molestation.

I know several ageplayers who *have* been the victims of various types of abuse IRL, and yet they still do ageplay..... as the younger characters, typically!
So, obviously ageplay isn't offensive to those people who have been a victim of sexual abuse IRL.... rather, ageplay is offensive to certain people who due to their past history have a chip on their shoulder with regards to anything that touches both topics.

They tend to sometimes regress back to the age at which they were abused, or an earlier age, to relax, or try to "change the outcome" of the abuse by going back over it but giving it a happier ending.

Some people do it because it is their sexual fantasy. Some do it because it is a way for them to relax, others do it because it helps them explore other sides of their personality which aren't so serious and uptight. Some do it to 'pave over' past traumas and 'change the outcome', thus helping to heal past emotional wounds.

I don't know any ageplayers who have felt, even after years of doing ageplay both online and IRL, the desire to do sexual play with a RL child. Not a single one of the ageplayers I've known for years has gone on to have sexual contact with a RL child. Not a single one. How do I know this? Because ageplayers are very wary of people - they regularly conduct backgrounds checks on other people they know on the net BEFORE they meet them IRL, so if someone has black marks on their history, ageplayers tend to find them eventually.

In fact, there are two ageplayers I know of who do, in the RL world, have something to do with kids. The first is that apparently, there is an adult baby who helps write the 'Rugrats' TV series. The second is that when I was younger I knew a RL kidult (an ageplayer who RPs a kid) in London, who worked for (IIRC) a company that provides entertainment to kids. His job was basically thinking up fun things for kids to do. He diddn't have any actual contact with kids, just as the guy who helped write Rugrats episodes diddn't have any contact with kids.
Nevertheless, they were both ageplayers and they both used the fact they could mentally regress and in a sense re-live childhood, as a way of understanding how kids think. They then put this knowledge to use in a positive way, contributing to society.
Neither of them has ever been involved with RL kids. Both of them use the lessons they have picked up from non-sexual ageplay to contribute to society... and a good thing too.
Just think, shows like 'Rugrats' should be partly credited to ageplayers. It's like a lot of community leaders in SL are furry and/or gay... if you exclude a whole class of people based on your ignorance-based fears about them, society as a whole, loses. If after seeing the evidence you realise the myths (e.g. that gay people are more likely to become pedos than straight people) are completely untrue.... then you start to open the door to social integration, and thus progress. Ok, there will always be bad people / pedos..... but pedos belong in therapy..... and ageplayers deserve the right to walk the streets without fear, as they have done nothing wrong.

There are pedophilles who try to pretend they are ageplayers as a cover.
Real ageplayers, however, are not pedophilles and reject pedophilles just as strongly as the rest of us do.

All in all, you're right to say that pedos should seek professional help ASAP.
I look forward to the day when we're able to reprogram minds to eliminate harmful tendancies... e.g. we're able to program out the desire to self harm, pedophillic sexual urges, and homocidal urges, for example.
You must realise, however, that 'doing ageplay' is not harmful, either to the participants or to the wider society. Give ageplayers a rest - as another poster has pointed out... furries were once picked on because nobody understood what they were about. Now it's the ageplayers' turn.

To this day there are still people who really, honestly believe that furry is really all about bestiality (sex with RL, non-sentient animals). Similarly I expect for a long time yet we will still have people who really, honestly believe that ageplay is about pedophillia.
It's the same problem - people judge things they have no clue about without actually understanding them.

Sorry if this post, and possibly the last, come across as a lot harsher than I normally am... the reason is that it really bugs me when people seek to attack a minority group simply because they don't understand that group.

Fren Ree plays either a man or a very small, slight female. I'd love to see someone accuse her of being an ageplayer. The screeching sounds would bemuse me.

I refuse to understand that group.

Yuck

It's easier to kneejerk mindlessly, I know.

sigh...
how do i put this politely, just because a 100 years ago they thought they could boff kids and it was ok, does not mean it is ok...
they burnt people at the stake for stupid reasons
they beat their woman and said they had no right to hold property
if you weren't born into the correct family you were nothing but a peasant...

so to hold the fact they married young children off at an early age as a valid point for some moronic things does in no way justify it.. for shame on you!!!!!

but............ ageplay (i pray to God) is just simply role playing and that is all.. and should be treated as any role play like furries, bdsm, star trek, yadda yadda

Claiming youre a victim of child abuse and a mother in rl to defend this kind of 'roleplay' in SL is right, Phedre?
I hope when your children are old enough to read they never bump into your statements, for a mother you have a very strange taste

your being an ass now..

Mindjerking kneelessly is quite fun, though.

Sometimes I just have to remember and accept that some people are just so stuck in their own perspective that they will not budge in the forseeable future.

edit - NVM the rest, probably really is a mistake.

*gives you a long, slow look*

You have just pushed a very bad button to push with me, dear.

I would appreciate an apology.

there you go.. for the better part most of you acted like an ass, why don't you go clap yourselves on the back while you justify being obsessed with what is going on in someone else's backyard.. Heaven forbid you took an active interest in your own problems...

Age play is not an SL thing, it is not limited to virtual worlds.
I did a search of ageplay online (with my filter turned on because yes there are things I dont want to see either). This has been around since looong before any of us turned a computer on.

It is a given that somewhere in your immediate neighborhood (RL) one of your neighbors has a dungeon built in their basement for bdsm play. One of your neighbors likes to tie up his wife and play rape. One of your neighbors has a foot fetish and can't get off without licking their partners toes. And one of your neighbors likes to dress up in a diaper and have his wife baby him all day. People are freaky, it's a freaky world. We do all kinds of things to spice up our sex lives.

If you decide that the neighbor wearing the diaper is going too far and needs to be stopped, then you open the door to deciding the same for the others. You want to label the diaper wearer or his wife pedophiles, next is labeling the couple playacting rape as real rapists and a danger to the comunity. Then next the bdsm couple as abusers and arresting them for spousal abuse because his paddle left bruise marks on his girlfriend's ass. How far do you take it in deciding what behavior is acceptable in the privacy of someone's home and what is not?

The thing that keeps getting missed in all of this is that ageplay is not limited to virtual communities. When you have a grown man dressed in a diaper and sucking on a bottle in the real world believe me there is no level of imagination strong enough that could actually make anyone think of him as a real child. The only difference is that here in SL they are using cartoon avatars instead of oversized baby clothes.

to me it is a state of mind. my child avie just helps me to feel that way. certainly you can be a seven feet tall child if you desire. just tell people that your parents were giants.

Thank you, Polymorphous, for adding your experience to the mix. I do value hearing from you. I wish there was more information here and less noise -- thanks for doing your part to make this a useful thread.

I'd like to know more -- I'm endlessly curious about what makes people tick. I wouldn't dream of asking you about it here, though, seeing how well this thread is going. If you're willing to talk, please IM me in world.

Allana, in the examples you give we are talking about a neighbor who wants to be diapered by his wife, this is about two adults doing whatever they want i dont care, because they both agree on the act.

Ageplay in SL is about an adult having sex with a child, wich in rl is a crime, because the child does NOT agree, it gets pulled into the act against his will. Encouraging 'roleplay' like that in a virtual world is wrong. The child in SL is played by an adult, they both agree upon the act. My point is that the one playing the adult who performs sexual acts in a virtual world with a child avatar obviously is into this kind of behavior.
How long will it take till the virtual child gets boring? With his fantasies fed by acts who are not only living in his mind anymore but were pictured and controlled by him now in a virtual world, how small is the step to take it to rl?

This kind of 'roleplay' is bad for SL, bad for its reputation and for its growth. In the end Linden Lab will have to stand up and do something about it.

Polymorphous, outing this on this forum doesnt help you or anyone, go 'out' to a therapist who can judge professionaly what could help you.