Calling out ageplayers

Hey, there's a lot of debate about you guys. Some says you're sick and some says you're not and some says let you do what you want to do and don't worry about it. A lot of us are guessing about what motivates you, but as far as I know, we've yet to hear from a sexual ageplayer on any of these threads.

Could a few of you enlighten us? Why do you do what you do? What don't the rest of us understand about it? What do you think about it? Please make an alt if you don't want to post under your usual name.

Being an archetype, several thousand years old, all my interactions are ageplay (except with some old elves and ancient vampires).
Yes, I am a sick fuck.

You know? I never thought about it like that. I have a vampy avatar, and I loved elves in other games. You're perfectly right! That is age play!!!!

{Climbs in to shower and curls up on the floor at the horror of it all}

Yeah! they'd post right after the Gorean Masters come and enslave us all

Great Gorean Forum Auction?!

You guys.

Hiyas. I write the guide to BDSM and kink in Second Life, which includes a chapter on ageplay.

With regard to your questions...


This is a very difficult question to answer, simply because there are many different reasons ageplayers do what they do. A common one is the desire for a simpler life - to relieve stress. As ageplayers are adults in real life, they have to deal with adult stresses - work, tax, paying the morgage... and it helps them to regress mentally to a time when they were younger and they did not really have to be responsible for their own lives. It lets them relax, let their hair down and generally take a break from the responsibilites of the adult world.
Another common reason is to go back and explore things that happened to them in childhood. Perhaps they had a particular period of their childhood they they really, really enjoyed - and they want to relive it to wallow in the nice memories, just like many older people frequently smile as they remember the happiest times of their lives.
Another reason some of them do it is that they 'fit' with the mental attitudes of people much younger than themselves - for example, they think video games are cool, they're open minded and they like experimenting with new things. Granted, not all adults are closed to these things, but younger people tend to be much more open-minded about these sorts of things, and people who stay young and energetic mentally can find themselves lacking similarly minded company as they get older. So, they can do ageplay to return to that.

In short, there are a lot of psychological reasons for ageplay, mostly resting on mental relaxtion, breaks from stress, and feeling one with adventerous and open-minded attitudes common in the young.

There are also some sexual reasons, for some ageplayers. A common one is they want to blend the friendly, open minded, playful, exploration-prone attitudes of young people with sex, in order to have better sex. It's a sad fact that various adult product makers IRL make 'sex machines' which, physically, are better at having sex than any human could be.
Yet people still have sex with other people - so, obviously, they must value the human element, the emotional link between people. Some people choose to blend sex or sexual activity with ageplay, because ageplay is *very* good at forming a protective, loving emotional bond between the two adults who are roleplaying it well.
I suspect that many people do sexual ageplay, ironically, for a way of getting a loving relationship that makes them feel *both* loved / cared for, and sexual. Obviously, real children wouldn't feel sexual in the same way, but that's ok, because the goal of ageplay is not to mimic what actually happens with real children. Ageplay is a form of roleplay *inspired by* how real young people act.... but there are very, very substantial differences. One of these is that since *adults* are doing the ageplay, those adults (usually) maintain some of their sex drive even when their minds are in a regressed psychological state. Being in that state pushes psychological buttons which are apparently very nice to have pushed. Thus, mixing ageplay and sex is possible, because the participants in sexual roleplay are almost always roleplaying regressed adults, which is quite different from actually roleplaying a real young person.

So... why do people do it? I think the 3 main reasons I've observed in ageplayers are :
1) feeling loved and free of responsibility for their lives.
2) feeling like they have a stable environment maintained by other people, that allows them to relax and not worry about anything for awhile.
3) the ability to combine these positive feelings with sexual activity to have relaxed, comfortable sex in a environment that feels loving.



I think there are a few incorrect assumptions that stop most people understanding ageplay.

The most common one is that ageplayers are just doing ageplay because they cannot do what they want to do (have sex) with real children - in essence, that ageplay is disguised pedophillia. I know this one is false because over the years I've met *many* ageplayers, and I know the vast majority are nothing like that at all. The vast, vast majority are attracted to the idea of doing this sort of roleplay with other consenting adults, because they're just as squicked and disgusted by the idea of mixing *real* children and sex as anyone else is. Some display abnormally high levels of revulsion, for example many non-sexual ageplayers regard the ageplay they do as attempting to get back to a more innocent, carefree state, and pedophilles are a direct threat to that. Plus, I think what makes sexual ageplay enjoyable for many adults is that they like the idea of having *their partner* in a more relaxed, open, cuddly and perhaps innocent state. Their partner can be sexual in that state, or just cuddly, or whatever, it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's *them*, their partner, who is that way. There's an emotional connection there which is valued.
This is, I think, why ageplayers don't generally get involved with RL minors : it is impossible to have a connection like that on all those different levels from the emotional to the intellectual to the sexual, with a RL minor. Their brains are simply not sufficiently developed to do it. That is why ageplayers, as a general rule, are not interested in RL minors.

Another common misconception is that all age-play is sexual. A great deal of people do completely a-sexual ageplay. Some of the best ageplay is based around non-sexual 'looking after' roleplay. Or, as I've seen in RL... ageplay based around the idea of one partner regressing and playing silly childish games to relax and have fun, like peekaboo, for example. It's silly, but it's not pointless because it greatly decreases stress and helps the people involved relax and bond.

A final misconception I think underpins a lot of the negative thinking about ageplay is the lack of understanding about the dynamics of roleplay. Roleplay is a lot more complicated than just acting... there are several levels it operates on that are invisible to the casual observer. For example, no matter what people do in-world, they may also be IMing each other, asking questions *outside* the roleplay, in order to discuss what they are going to do next within the roleplay to be sure that the roleplay moves in a direction both are happy with. The fact this goes on, especially if problems come up, means that as a general rule if you see two people roleplaying, NO MATTER WHAT THEY APPEAR TO SAY IN CHARACTER, they are probably enjoying what they do, and know it's going to happen unless they object OOC (known as 'safewording'). In essence, I think that people have a warped conception of ageplay because of ignorance (they don't understand it), and any ageplay they *do* see almost always does not include the OOC negotiation parts, the aftercare, and the background of the couple's relationship. In short, people have a warped view of ageplay because they don't see much of it and when they do see it they see only the 'external' parts. As with a lot of roleplay - the most important parts of it are the internal feelings and background that only the participants have - and without which it is difficult to get any accurate idea of what it is like to do.



Personally, ageplay is just another 'kink' (a non-standard mental or sexual feature of a person) to me. It falls under the rules I have for kink, generally : "anything done by consenting adults in private is OK". So, ageplayers are entitled to do what they do so long as they don't hurt or harass other people with it. They're entitled to ignore any objections other people have about them doing it - it's their lives, and what they do affects nobody else, so nobody else is entitled to judge them.

I really don't see what the fuss is about. There are more kinks that I could possibly know, let alone name. I don't get worked up about what people do when it does not effect me... so why should other people get worked up when ageplayers do what they do?

Why people care about what ageplayers get up to at all puzzles me. I figure in order to care, they'd have to either :
1) be harmed by it personally (being offended doesn't count as being harmed, even if it's a moral offence).
2) OR, be interested in doing it too, either personally (as a roleplayer) or professionally (e.g. as a psych researcher).
3) OR, have too much free time on their hands, which causes them to get interested in things which they don't really have a reason to care about, simply because they are bored and looking for something to get interested in or someone to pick on.



I'm posting under my main, because otherwise I wouldn't be identifiable as the author of the Guide to BDSM/Kink in SL, and because I personally try to avoid the use of alts as I prefer to keep all my stuff under one name in SL.

What's wrong with having an avatar that looks 90.. ;0

Youngster

Very Well said Angel, I hope this will put an end to a lot of the misconceptions about Ageplay.

Personally, I use my "child avatar" because I'm a Minime fan =P

My avatar currently looks young because I spent a small fortune at Nakama, and the anime stuff looks rediculous on my "grown up" av.

What, you mean you've never read LOLITA?

These are guys (almost always) who have become fixated on younger BODIES.

Sometimes the gender matters, sometimes it doesn't -- if the senior partner prefers anal sex, he's not gonna look at whatever other equipment the child comes with, anyway.

They usually like the schoolgirl look, with the flippy little pleated skirt, the socks, the ponytails, the MaryJane shoes.

A girl I once worked with in a hotel nightclub one evening noticed that I always had a book in my purse. She announced that BF thought LOLITA was the greatest work of literature ever written. I took a deep breath, mentioned that someone's taste in reading said alot about their character, and asked how long she and BF had been dating, she said 6 wks or so. I told her that within another month, he'd probably ask her to dress up like a pretty little schoolgirl adn play "Daddy" games. She shuddered, said BF would NEVER do such a thing, and huffed away with her tray of drinks.

Two wks later, she came in, gave me the most OUTRAGED look you could ever imagine (I gather it was all MY fault!), and started flirting madly with every semi-good-looking guy in her section. She left with a new guy that night, moved in with him 2 wks later, and moved on to another hotel nightclub.

There are gradations of this compulsion -- sometimes it's just a play thing. If it's just a once-in-awhile thing, not to worry.

Sometimes a guy has this little "thing" for very young girls -- if he has access, he might take advantage on a whim. This is usually the local father who takes his daughter's best friend home and can't help himself, gropes her in the car one night - a temporary aberration. They are not the classic pedophile that deliberately stalks kids, but they might take advantage in a situation where it is available.

However, sometimes the guy is a serious pedo but CAN function with older partners; these can usually pass as "normal". They might be the guy who develops a relationship with a woman who has kids so that he has access to the kids as well as the mom. That way, he can pass and not be suspected -- obviously, if he's bonking an adult woman, people think he CAN'T be a pedo (he can, he's just not completely incapable with another adult - he prefers the kid but uses the adult for access).

However, others, who do fit the classic stalker pedo profile, are more serious -- something happens, early on in a guy's sexual development, and the guy becomes so fixated on the YOUNG BODY - pre-publescent - that he literally CANNOT function with anyone older.

Now y'all know why I don't like the "kiddy" look.

Merlyn, I appreciate your opinion. However, this is what I wanted to avoid. I've heard enough, really, of non-ageplayers telling us why ageplayers do what they do. I want to hear from those who do it themselves.

Anyone else out there willing to share?

Being a 14 billion year old cherub that looks like a baby...I just can't win.

I can't help being 1190 years old. I was frozen most that time to escape a invasion to my kingdom. After reviving myself, i died and was given a second chance. Now i'm a spirit taking the form of a living anthro wolf. I cannot be killed unless i do it myself.

It won't. For most of the anti-ageplay crowd it's a 'moral' issue. That sort of stance is hard to change through reasoning alone.

To me, this is such a simple question. There are all sorts of reasons to do any sort of roleplay at all. I don't get to do much ageplay, since I have other priorities, but I count as a supporter, at least. Rather than explaining why someone would prefer ageplay to all other forms of sex, I'll give some reasons why a 'normal' person might enjoy the occasional ageplay. But first, let me start with some background.


First, there is roleplaying in SL. People keep saying 'SL is not a game'... but a lot of residents do, nevertheless, use it like a roleplaying game. Goreans for example have set up a whole fictional world to roleplay in. And there are plenty of other fictional settings to play in, often recreating a time from RL history, such as the 1500s, 1800s, or 2400s... or a place such as Italy or Amsterdam or Las Vegas. There is a LOT of dress-up-and-pretend in SL.

Second, it's popular to be the victim. There are more would-be slaves than masters, more people wanting to be flogged than wanting to swing the whip, and in forced sex groups, more people wanting to be raped than there are to accost them. And there are lots of kids wanting to find parents, as any adoption agency can tell you. I didn't get this impression just because I spend my SL time nowadays hanging out with slaves, escorts, and sex groups... I've discovered it in my relationships with more straight-laced PG types too. I point all this out because 'victim' in this context is a misnomer... they've sought this out, maybe even put some effort into planning the whole thing, and are eager to experience it.

Third, when you see a child AV they aren't really innocent like a real child and aren't being forced or coerced or tricked in the way that a real child would have been... the adult behind the keyboard generally doesn't need to have their child AV rescued or protected. Just like when you see a furry in SL you don't treat them like a RL dumb animal. If you react to a child-scene in SL the same way you would in RL then you are just plain wrong. This is an essential distinction, that you need to understand. Relationships where the person behind the keyboard is vulnerable or manipulated or abused or might suffer emotional scars is what you should actually be concerned about.


Ok... so... on to some reasons. How about... when I was that age I had the hots for teacher, but never got to do anything about it. In RL it would have been sick, and wrong, and I had loving caring parents to prevent such things, and of course my teacher probably didn't like me back... and so on and so on. It was nothing more than an adolescent fantasy. But now that I'm grown up, playing SL, I'd like to play it out, live that fantasy and see what it might have been like. So I make my avatar look like me at that age and... well, you know the rest.

How about... I'm in one of those rape groups, having fun getting assaulted and pissed on and such... but I want to be more vulnerable, more of a victim. Hmm, maybe as a child AV I could be even more hurt and embarassed by this treatment, I think I'll try it.

How about... when I was that age I wanted sex but didn't get any. Maybe I was ugly, or immature, or shy, or unpopular, or Amish, or whatever. We all worry about exploited teens... but let's not forget the frustrated teens out there! Maybe now that I'm grown up and in SL I'd like to imagine what might have been, by playing it out with other people who were also unlucky at that age.

How about... I have a fantasy of deflowering a virgin, or maybe even a virgin bride. So to live out this fantasy I find someone with a cute little-girl AV to seduce.

How about... to have a simple innocent tee-hee session with a friend. For a kid a game of I'll-show-you-mine-if-you-show-me-yours is mind-blowing and exciting; it can be a refreshing change from adults who always seem to expect intercourse-with-orgasm.

How about... my first time in RL was horrible. Not the beautiful loving experience that one would hope for, but crude... or embarassing... or I was too drunk to remember it at all. Whatever. But now that I'm grown up and playing SL, maybe I can pretend I'm a virgin again and do it right this time. So I make a child AV, tell my SL 'partner' about my fantasy, and make some memories.

And consider the opposite side of the above: your partner comes to you and asks you to play out their fantasy. This one applies to all sorts of kinks actually. If you're a good enough friend/partner, wouldn't you want to do this for/with/to them?

Here's an ironic one: to avoid cybering with real children. When real children get into SL they usually try to 'pass' -- they pretend to be older. But ageplayers are a lot more cautious about it, due to all the attacks on message boards and such. So, on average, the ageplayers are actually LESS likely to be RL children! I remember certain 'adult' sex groups being absolute pedophile heavens, long before 6/6. The RL teens, being curious, pose as an adult and offer to have sex with anyone in SL, just so they can see what happens. It can be quite awkward when you get... involved... and then realize a little too late that your partner isn't talking like an adult. I ended up avoiding certain groups.

And another: to avoid cybering with big hairy truckers. I hate that stereotype -- most of the men playing female sluts are actually more of the nerdy type. In any case they go for the easy route, and tend to play sexy dancers, kajira, or escorts, not little girls. So... maybe play with kid AVs because you're paranoid about cybering RL men? I've heard stranger things.

All of those are legitimate reasons why a normal person, with absolutely zero interest in RL pedophilia or even RL ageplay, who never even heard of a book called Lolita, might be found pixel-slapping with child AVs in SL.

Thank you Angel (and Adrian, read yours after writing this!) for your explanation. This was a topic that interested me because I knew nothing about it, but put me off questioning because, as has been proved here, combining children with a sexual situation naturally leads to some unpleasant conclusions. It's a subject that just repels those who aren't involved in it, because they can't imagine what dark avenues it covers. I was always prepared to believe that the paedo thing wasn't really the case - just as people make sweeping judgements about, for example, furries all being gay zoophiles, I realised that there might be one in one hundred (at most) ageplayers who engage in sexual activity from the paedophilia angle (eep, that's an unpleasant phrase!). But it’s hard to give people the benefit of the doubt when no alternative explanation is offered.

I could imagine people roleplaying children for many, many reasons. But I couldn't imagine why they would then act sexually in that role - but your explanations have been very informative. This is the first time I have seen such a description, and whilst I still believe there will be ageplayers out there who do it for totally the wrong reason (about as many as there are furries who are a bit too fond of their dogs..!), it's nice to finally have some details about why well-adjusted people would engage in it. Thanks for being so open about it - I don't think it will change opinions, but I think it will inform those more open ones.

Finally, Merlyn, how do you presume to explain something that you aren't involved in? I could understand you voicing your dislike for the attitudes expressed in Angel's answers, but you didn't even acknowledge them. What on earth makes you think that you have the right to 'explain' the way other people behave through your own conclusions, without knowing a single thing beyond your initial moral outrage? I can’t make up my own mind on the subject, because whilst Angel has offered a lot of explanations, there are surely more to be heard – but you’re prepared to shut something into your little categorised box of ‘wrong’ without even considering discussion. I know it’s a touchy subject, but wouldn’t you feel better learning some real reasons from the people actually involved before you write them all off as freaks of nature?

I didn’t think there would be a mindset that confused me more than ageplay, but you learn something every day…

I love you anyway, Luce... <hugs>. (grin)

Perhaps you aren't getting the response you wanted because the age players, all two of them, don't read the forums.

IMO they do it because they fantasize about having sex with children.. but what would I know Im not a pervert (exept when it comes to my GF ).

Heh, maybe. But it was a nice thought.

To reiterate, I'm looking for the POV of ageplayers, specifically those who do incorporate sexual relations into their play.

If you do not do this, there is another thread where nonageplayers are voicing opinions. There's a lot of speculation there about why ageplayers do what they do; I'm looking for first person experiences here.

You truly are a marvel, Richie.

\o/ weee ;^o