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1.9 Preview, big changes, lots of surprises |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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02-09-2006 19:30
just a note to say check out the 1.9 preview, i am still reading the release notes, sounds like a nice change of pace to talk about, all sorts of stuff I had no idea was coming.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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02-09-2006 20:16
Region performance debugging tools include disabling all scripts, disabling physics, and getting lists of objects that are potentially slowing down physics ("top colliders" or scripting ("top scripts" Interesting. I believe this feature could potentially have an impact on the mainland versus estate island dynamic. Removing laggers is critical to having an effective experience, and if you can't do it on mainland but can do it on islands.. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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02-09-2006 20:17
Lets hope they wait 2 weeks before the update..
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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02-09-2006 20:27
Better be longer than two weeks, I suspect, it is doing really badly for me with the gray textures, even worse than what I have been complaining about over and over for so long.
What does this mean? They allow private island owners to set more options on a per-region basis We would like estate owners to "consolidate" their estates, that is, to put more than one region per estate (Customer service can help with this) Non estate owners and non land owners have a harder time understanding what the land owner's controls and such do, since we don't get to see them and use them. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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02-09-2006 20:33
I really hope llTeleportAgent gets into 1.9.
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Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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02-09-2006 20:46
sigh, second crash in 30 minutes in the preview.
but, it's just a preview, so while one doesn't have to enjoy the problems, one shouldn't get too upset about them either -------------------- this looks interesting. Improved communication between regions A new method simulators running each region to interact with one another has been implemented. This new method allows for communication between regions, rather than requiring data go through a central server The internal path for almost all data that must go from one sim to another far away sim (where 'far away' is defined as not touching) has been changed for the following functions: Teleports (via map, home, login, offer teleport) IM (resident to resident, object to resident) Inventory Transfers (resident to resident, object to resident) Friends online/offline notifications Finder information (people finder has been touched barely) The exception to this new scheme is group chat better sim crossings maybe? It appears to be showing as Second Life Siva in the program menu instead of the less geeky Second Life Preview. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Eata Kitty
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 387
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02-10-2006 05:23
With these far more frequent updates (It seems to be every two weeks or so?) we really need a better patcher. Downloading the whole client again and again is a big fat waste of everyones time and pretty killer for those people on 128K or slower.
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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02-10-2006 05:50
Yay, now I can give Estate access to other AVs
And the debug tab looks sweet too. I wish I had those a couple weeks back._____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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02-10-2006 06:39
With these far more frequent updates (It seems to be every two weeks or so?) we really need a better patcher. Downloading the whole client again and again is a big fat waste of everyones time and pretty killer for those people on 128K or slower. I downloaded files bigger than the SL client back when I was on dial-up. Estimated download time on a 128K connection is 21 minutes. How does a twenty-minute download every two weeks cause a massive problem? Do something else while the new version is loading. The 1.9 preview is just that, a preview that people go to in hopes of breaking and finding problems. With the changes being as extensive as they seem the Linden staff will need to leave it up a while, advertise it, get lots of people to go and make sure everything has been tested and poked and prodded and picked at obsessively. It's not a new version we have to get right now to run SL. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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02-10-2006 06:43
Posted here for convenience:
Second Life 1.9.0(4) Feb 8, 2006 ================================ PREVIEW ONLY New features: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FollowCam? functionality allows scripts to control the camera Scripts on attachments and vehicles can now control camera behavior through a call to llSetCameraParams(), once they have acquired the PERMISSION_CONTROL_CAMERA permission The script will control the user's camera as long as the resident doesn't override it (use Alt-zoom or enter mouselook, for example) and the object remains attached or the avatar continues to sit on it: When multiple scripts attempt to control the camera, the last script to set the CAMERA_ACTIVE flag will have control Older scripts will regain control as soon as the newer one is deactivated The new FollowCam? scripts enable a huge variety of vehicle-following behaviors: For instance, a loose camera setting allows sudden changes in vehicle acceleration to happen without causing dizzying jolts in the camera By turning off the "behindness" feature, the camera will be simply dragged along, but it will not try to stay exactly behind the vehicle Other parameters, like pitch (the angle at which it "looks down" at the vehicle), distance, and others, allow you to customize the cinematics of vehicular fun Improved tools for estate owners (and estate managers) Estate tools are a set of tools for people who own private islands. On the mainland they can be used by anyone to see the "rules" for a region Choose World -> Region/Estate... to see settings such as whether terraform is allowed, or what the raise/lower land limits are They allow private island owners to set more options on a per-region basis We would like estate owners to "consolidate" their estates, that is, to put more than one region per estate (Customer service can help with this) New per-region tools include blocking flying, forcing damage on, setting "object bonus" to allow more prims per parcel (although still capped at 15,000 per region), setting PG/mature, teleporting home all users in a region, setting fixed sun position Region performance debugging tools include disabling all scripts, disabling physics, and getting lists of objects that are potentially slowing down physics ("top colliders" or scripting ("top scripts" Estate owners can download a region's "RAW" terrain file, modify it, and upload it to make changes in the land Estate owners can "bake" the current terrain, setting it as the default for the "revert" tool and the middle for terraform raise/lower limits Users and groups can be added to allowed/group/ban lists for one estate, or all estates you own Estate managers You can delegate responsibility for all the above tools (except RAW files and bake terrain) to other residents Improved communication between regions A new method simulators running each region to interact with one another has been implemented. This new method allows for communication between regions, rather than requiring data go through a central server The internal path for almost all data that must go from one sim to another far away sim (where 'far away' is defined as not touching) has been changed for the following functions: Teleports (via map, home, login, offer teleport) IM (resident to resident, object to resident) Inventory Transfers (resident to resident, object to resident) Friends online/offline notifications Finder information (people finder has been touched barely) The exception to this new scheme is group chat Scripting Changes: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New LSL functions: float llListStatistics(list l, integer operation) Performs a statistical operation on a given list of numbers Ignores list entries that are not integers or floats Available operations are as follows: LIST_STAT_MAX Used with llListStatistics to find the largest number in a list LIST_STAT_MIN Used with llListStatistics to find the smallest number in a list LIST_STAT_MEAN Used with llListStatistics to find the mean of the numbers in a list LIST_STAT_MEDIAN Used with llListStatistics to find the median of the numbers in a list LIST_STAT_STD_DEV Used with llListStatistics to find the standard deviation of the numbers in a list LIST_STAT_SUM Used with llListStatistics to find the sum of the numbers in a list LIST_STAT_SUM_SQUARES Used with llListStatistics to find the sum of the squares of the numbers in a list LIST_STAT_NUM_COUNT Used with llListStatistics to find how many numbers are in a list LIST_STAT_GEOMETRIC_MEAN Used with llListStatistics to find the geometric mean of the numbers in a list (all numbers must be > 0) LIST_STAT_RANGE Used with llListStatistics to find the range of the numbers in a list LIST_STAT_GEOMETRIC_MEAN Used with llListStatistics to find the geometric mean of the numbers in a list (all numbers must be > 0) LIST_STAT_RANGE Used with llListStatistics to find the range of the numbers in a list integer llGetUnixTime() Get the number of seconds elapsed since 00:00 hours, Jan 1, 1970 UTC from the system clock Returns UTC integer llGetRegionFlags() Get the region flags (REGION_FLAG_*) for the region the object is in Both this command and llGetParcelFlags() return an integer that is a bit field of flags This bitfield can be ANDed with a flag to see if that flag is set for that parcel Example: if (llGetRegionFlags() & REGION_FLAG_SANDBOX) llOwnerSay("This is a sandbox!" ; REGION_FLAG_ALLOW_DAMAGE Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region is entirely damage enabled REGION_FLAG_FIXED_SUN Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region has a fixed sun position REGION_FLAG_BLOCK_TERRAFORM Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region terraforming disabled REGION_FLAG_SANDBOX Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region is a sandbox REGION_FLAG_DISABLE_COLLISIONS Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region has disabled collisions REGION_FLAG_DISABLE_PHYSICS Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region has disabled physics REGION_FLAG_BLOCK_FLY Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region blocks flying REGION_FLAG_ALLOW_DIRECT_TELEPORT Used with llGetRegionFlags to find if a region allows direct teleports integer llGetParcelFlags(vector pos) Get the parcel flags (PARCEL_FLAG_*) for the parcel including the point pos PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_FLY Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows flying PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_SCRIPTS Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows outside scripts PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_LANDMARK Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows landmarks to be created PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_TERRAFORM Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows anyone to terraform the land PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_DAMAGE Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows damage PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_CREATE_OBJECTS Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows anyone to create objects PARCEL_FLAG_USE_ACCESS_GROUP Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel limits access to a group PARCEL_FLAG_USE_ACCESS_LIST Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel limits access to a list of residents PARCEL_FLAG_USE_BAN_LIST Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel uses a ban list PARCEL_FLAG_USE_LAND_PASS_LIST Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel allows passes to be purchased PARCEL_FLAG_LOCAL_SOUND_ONLY Used with llGetParcelFlags to find if a parcel restricts spacialized sound to the parcel FollowCam? family of camera scripts: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- llRequestPermissions(agent_key, PERMISSION_CONTROL_CAMERA) Requests permissions Note, PERMISSION_CONTROL_CAMERA permissions are only supported for attachments and vehicles at this time Accepting permissions via a dialog is not currently implemented. llClearCameraParams() Resets all camera values to their default. llReleaseCamera() Returns camera to the agent. llSetCameraParams([]) sets up the camera movement rules based on the parameter list CAMERA_ACTIVE (TRUE or FALSE) Default = FALSE Turns on or off scripting control of Scripted Camera CAMERA_DISTANCE (0.5 to 10.0 meters) Default = 3.0 Sets how far away the Scripted Camera wants to be from its subject CAMERA_PITCH (-45.0 to 80.0 degrees) Default = 0.0 Adjusts the angular amount that the Scripted Camera aims straight ahead vs. straight down, maintaining the same distance. Analogous to 'incidence' CAMERA_FOCUS_OFFSET (<-10,-10,-10> to <10,10,10> meters) Default = <0.0, 0.0, 0.0> Adjusts the position of the Scripted Camera focus position relative to the subject CAMERA_POSITION_LAG (0.0 to 3.0 seconds) Default = 0.1 How much the Scripted Camera lags as it tries to move towards its 'ideal' position CAMERA_FOCUS_LAG (0.0 to 3.0 seconds) Default = 0.1 How much the Scripted Camera lags as it tries to aim towards the subject CAMERA_BEHINDNESS_ANGLE (0.0 to 180.0 degrees) Default = 10.0 Sets the angle in degrees within which the Scripted Camera is not constrained by changes in subject rotation. 180 effectively turns behindness off. CAMERA_BEHINDNESS_LAG (0.0 to 3.0 seconds) Default = 0.0 How much the Scripted Camera lags as it tries to stay behind the target if outside of behindness angle CAMERA_POSITION_THRESHOLD (0.0 to 4.0 meters) Default = 1.0 Sets the radius of a sphere around the Scripted Camera's ideal position within which it is not affected by subject motion CAMERA_FOCUS_THRESHOLD (0.0 to 4.0 meters) Default = 1.0 Sets the radius of a sphere around the Scripted Camera's subject position within which its focus is not affected by subject motion CAMERA_POSITION (vector position within the region) Sets the position of the Scripted Camera CAMERA_FOCUS (vector position within the region) Sets the focus position of the Scripted Camera CAMERA_POSITION_LOCKED (TRUE or FALSE) Default = FALSE Locks the camera position so it will not move CAMERA_FOCUS_LOCKED (TRUE or FALSE) Default = FALSE Locks the camera focus so it will not move _____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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02-10-2006 07:19
<3 Camera control <3
What's the chances of this being out before the end of March...? |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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02-10-2006 07:22
I'm trying to use it on a friend's computer and it crashes when I try to attach things to my avatar.
Will test more fully when I get on my own computer at home tonight. The release notes look interesting though -- I am disappointed the teleport agent LSL stuff didn't make it in, as it seemed a seemingly easy thing to implement after P2P. _____________________
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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02-10-2006 07:26
I'm trying to use it on a friend's computer and it crashes when I try to attach things to my avatar. Will test more fully when I get on my own computer at home tonight. The release notes look interesting though -- I am disappointed the teleport agent LSL stuff didn't make it in, as it seemed a seemingly easy thing to implement after P2P. |
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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02-10-2006 07:37
I'm trying to use it on a friend's computer and it crashes when I try to attach things to my avatar. Ah, so I'm not the only. Every single time I tried to attach something... BOOM. HP |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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02-10-2006 08:26
I really hope llTeleportAgent gets into 1.9. Yep. I'll stop jabbing my Voodoo Linden with a sharp stick long enough for them to code it. |
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
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02-10-2006 08:41
just a note to say check out the 1.9 preview, i am still reading the release notes, sounds like a nice change of pace to talk about, all sorts of stuff I had no idea was coming. Sue... we've depended so much on you for sarcastic remarks and this post fails completely. Furthermore your positive outlook completely fails to point out the possibilities of bugs or conflicts that might arise when ..... *looks at feature list. OMG COOL! I threw the camera test script into the free "kart" and tried it out... very nice. and unix time! weeee, now I might do more clock based stuff. |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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02-10-2006 08:53
Man. That's all pretty cool. All the more useful.
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Beatfox Xevious
is THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 879
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02-10-2006 09:37
I'm trying to use it on a friend's computer and it crashes when I try to attach things to my avatar. _____________________
My Beatworks: Zephyr Chimes wind chimes, the KanaMaster Japanese kana tutor, and the FREE Invisibility Prim Public. Look for them at the Luskwood General Store in Lusk (144, 165).
"You have been frozen. You cannot move or chat. A pony will contact you via instant message (IM)." - mysterious system message I received after making off with Pony Linden |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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02-10-2006 09:41
From the release notes, there doesn't seem to be much new at all - what are the "big changes"?
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Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. ![]() |
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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02-10-2006 09:43
In my mind its the changes that are in estate tools that are big
![]() Prolly the camera thing also but its beyond my comprehension ![]() _____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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02-10-2006 10:06
From the release notes, there doesn't seem to be much new at all - what are the "big changes"? I believe the new communication code, changes behind the scenes, are pretty big though they effect customer facing functionality very little. Major releases often contain code that is architecturally core and needs to be regression tested as much as possible because so much is impacted. Unfortunately, the code is also under appreciated because it is usually more architectural in nature than functional. It's a tough thing to explain to customers (and often upper management, unfortunately), that their whole world just became unstable and buggy but they don't really get any new toys to play with or feature sets to sell to customers. I have run into this a lot during my engineering days. More clever planning before hand can fix this somewhat so you do not have to refactor, but then you start to spend all your time planning cleverly and not getting features out the door. Like all things, it's a balance. |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-10-2006 10:24
sounds promising.
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Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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02-10-2006 11:14
I think the ability for estate owners to download their island RAW file, edit, and then re-upload it to alter the land is KICK ASS.
I've noticed a performance increase, too, on my friend's system which is not a very powerful system; I cannot wait to get home tonight and try it on my gaming rig. This update does look promising, but history has taught me not to get all excited about updates to the client. It would seem a lot of the texture issues are asset-server related... it is going to an update at the same time? _____________________
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Kelly Linden
Linden Developer
Join date: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 896
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02-10-2006 11:40
Iron Perth is right. Probably the biggest feature (I may be biased, I have been part of the team working on it), which has been worked on the longest starting before 1.7 was released, is the small paragraph about 'Improved communication between regions'.
That small section mostly just includes a list of features whose implementation, but not feature set, has been significantly changed. If you read this list closely, that should be a fairly scary thing in need of some good testing and worthy of its own point release. Some details for the technically minded: Pre-1.9 grid communication has two central servers, one that keeps connections open to all regions and one to all online users. These servers are used to route messages. Talking to the sim you are on and neighboring sims doesn't use these servers. Doing a teleport, IM, inventory transfer, login etc does. 'Improved communication between regions' has been code named internally as Distributed Messaging (DM). The goal of DM is to remove these two central servers completely, instead relying on simpler presence queries and direct communication paths. It is not complete, but 1.9 includes the bulk of the work for it. Here is an example: Pre 1.9 IM - The client sends the message to the userserver which has a connection to every agent and can easily route to the other client if they are connected or save to the database if not. Pros: easy. very easy. Cons: If the userserver crashes "Bad Things(tm)" happen. Because the userserver must have a connection to all agents it presents a significant bottle neck. Post 1.9 IM - The client sends the IM to the simulator host they are currently on. That host does a quick presence check for the target person and then sends the message to the sim they are on, or to be saved if they are not on. Pros: decentralized, way more scalable, no central point of failure. Cons: slightly more complicated. user -> server -> user becomes user -> host -> host -> user. Wait, 1.9 isn't ALL of DM? There are still a couple of features that use the old servers. Primarily any IM chat that involves more than 2 agents (groups, folders of calling cards, Live Help etc). These servers have, however, been improved to eliminate as much as possible the "Bad Things(tm)" factor. _____________________
- Kelly Linden
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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02-10-2006 12:53
*a really long passage explaining coolness of 1.9 Sweet. |