concerns over 1.9.1

There are some interesting extras in 1.9.1 which will require quite a lot of computing power to run.

Last night I talked with a tester of 1.9.1 and they said it would take a very large card (Macnine?) to run all but the basic functions of 1.9.1

I would say, at least 60% or more have computers and graphic cards that are less than 128MB ram and what the tester told me, About the wave action, lighting etc, they hinted that it could be that the 128 card will no longer cut it except with the most basic functions.

I wonder what will happen to people who have 64 cards. Yes, people may say they need to upgrade their cards, but to many, there are more important needs than upgrading cards. And then there are those who will say then if they cannot upgrade what are they doing here? They are here because Linden Labs say their computers can handle SL.

I think what needs to happen, is that off switches need to be included to the Preferences. That way those who want the new effects under 1.9.1 can have them and those people who's computers will loose FPS and have major problems can simply turn them off.

There is nothing wrong with an Off switch. And I do not understand how anyone could be against this. After all, there is an off switch for streaming video and audio why not the other effects as well?

I also don't understand how people will say, that if a person cannot afford to upgrade their machines then what are they doing here? And you should know that there are those who could upgrade their computers but feel that since SL is just one program of many and the other 99% of their programs work just fine, will say, why should I upgrade my computer just for one program?

My advice to LL is to include an off switch for all the new effects or maybe even a switch that allows the preferences to retain pre 1.9.1 status.

I've been testing 1.9.1 since it was released. There is very little difference in performance except for a single feature: Hardware lighting. Big woop. One feature.



Those numbers come from nowhere and mean nothing.



Such switch has been there since the beginning.



Then that's a choice they have to live with.

no thats a good estimate. Don't write me off just because you hate me.




What is your machines specs?

I have access to everything from a *very* chuggish laptop with a 128 meg *shared* video card (The 128 megs in this case is deceptive, it peforms like something with much less memory) to a so-so machine with a 3hz p4 and a fairly dated 256 meg AGP card. I notice not an ounce of FPS difference if I'm not running the new hardware lighting. Which, again, can be turned off with one click.

Where did you get the impression I hated you?

It's not an estimate. My FPS have not changed mesurably in 1.9.1 from 1.9.0 as long as I dont turn on hardware lighting.

My impressions of the preview are great, they really nailed the lighting issues. It'll be a matter of weeks before it's rendered inoperable due to light abuse but in the meanwhile it's awesome. Occlusion culling in my opinion needs some tweaking, but if the conditions are right there is a very real performance improvement. Flexiprims are also a joy to behold, and you haven't seen hair until you see strategically placed flexies swaying to and fro across a person's face in the wind.

Will you need a more powerful computer? Possibly. My impressions are a 2 fps loss with the new lighting system active (and on full, HW and SW lighting. HW lighting alone has no performance hit to my eyes) and only a performance GAIN with occlusion culling. However OC and flexies are both computationally expensive (one moreso than the other) and will make playing on SL impossible with less than 512 megs of RAM or an older 32 meg video card. In fact with the new lighting system you might need at least something with pixel shaders if you want lighting on. Luckily the Radeon 9700 Pro (first of the cards with pixel shaders) is very cheap now adays on eBay.

And don't scoff at playing on SL with less than 512 megs of RAM or a 32 meg video card, I know someone who has such a system. In fact I was the one who inspired her to get up to 512 megs and she's nothing but smiles at the "massive frame rate increase" from 4 to 9. >D

Again, however, you can turn most of that off. I'm not *sure* about flexi-prims, though.

ive tried it on both my old machine (athalong 1.3ghz 128mb Geforce2) and my newer one (1.9ghz athalon 128mb GF6600 GT) and did not notice MUCH of a prefromance hit vs the main grid, the newer machine even with a 100 flexi prims and HW lighting was getting about the same framerate...

course just like anything else this is dependant on content makers, one day soon you may walk into a club with 450,000 particles 30av's standing around with 200 prim flexi hair and 1mega pixel images on each strand

even without the flexi prims thats enugh to make my machine curl up and cry in a dark closet so i doubt it would really matter

Magnum,

It would do more for your cause if you spoke from a position of experience, instead of guestimating. Try out the preview, that is what it is for. There is no reason that you cannot, and then you can speak about the effects on your system, keeping in mind that the purpose of the preview is to push it to the limits.

Additionally, the new lighting features are completely able to be turned off (without restarting the client, finally!) - and have less impact when on than Local Lighting , but you aren't complaining about local lighting being a feature. There are several different options for hardware lighting. They have already also mentioned that flexiprims are limited to avoid heavy impact on the client - I don't know what exactly that means, but I do imagine they will put in some controls for them. Turning them off altogether would have to mean the prims not moving at all (they can't just disappear), and since their shape is different than simply setting options on a prim (their shape is also determined by the effect of gravity/wind on them, like a billowing cape), it is not a simple matter of just making a flat non-moving prim there. I am not sure how they will handle it, but I am sure they have taken lower end systems into account.

At some point, however, you do have to face that forward changes will make your video card obsolete - that is part of the reality of computers.

I asked Torley about this when I was in preview at one point, and she informed me that was possible under the debug menu.

Good God, this is definitely right on the money. By my calculations, it will take a video card about three feet wide to run 1.9.1. That's a large card, all right. Since video cards are billed by the square inch, that will be a lot of money!

More crucially, though, there is the problem of the Preview Grid. Yet again, the Lindens recklessly establish this grid and then take no responsibility for all of the lag this grid causes. In fact, the preview grid is what brought down SL this weekend! (Jew Stein launched his attack from the preview grid, natch.)

So, keep up the good work, Magnum! Salient points all around. Perhaps at your urging, they will shut down the preview grid and revert the client to version 1.2. Development having thus ceased, no one will ever need to upgrade their computers to keep using SL. It'll be great!

That'll give us enough time to build robots that can create computers for us and that can also repair themselves. You're really onto something here, friend!

I have a factory spec Preserio R3300 from compaq I see very little diffrence in performance eve with HW lighting and I dont think my machine is anything particulary spiffy its a a lap top for griminy sake. So I dont see the problem here

I've seen a 50% DECREASE in performance from the main grid to preview with HW lighting off, vertex shaders off, and OC on. With HW lighting I only loose 3FPS, not a big deal. Vertex Shaders are what kill me so I leave that off. OC only works indoors and isn't that big of a performance increase. I sure hope LL focuses a bit on improving the framerates because I can't afford to go out and buy a $200 videocard atm (I use AGP, PCI-e would require a much more exspensive upgrade, ie mobo, cpu, ram, and videocard).

specs: AMD Anthlon XP 2600+ (1.9ghz 32bit), 1 gig ram, GeForceFX 5500 256MB AGP (overclocked)

But I heard that we will need 1.9.1 to build said robots. Oh the irony!

On a serious note, I too noticed some decreased performance in the preview grid, but as is mentioned, that is to be expected when introducing new features that tax on the hardware. So I myself just know that I will eventually have to get an uber CPU and GPU and hope it lasts for a while.

MM

PS: I have AMD Sempron 2400 (1.66GHz), 1.25GB RAM, nVidia FX 5200 256MB card. The CPU seems to be what is killing me lately, as I just upgraded to the 256mb vid card.

I've had a number of trees flexing at the same time with other flapping prims in sight and actually gotten better frame rate on both of my machines than I do in the curent version.

I seriously doubt that lighting will ever be active on my PCs. It's just not worth the sluggish performance.

Yeah, I gotta say I haven't noticed flexiprims really amounting to jack-all of a FPS hit. I really haven't. Lighting isn't too bad either, all things considered, but it is noticeable.

I think its important to remember that preview FPS are always a little questionable... We're running on sluggish server hardware, and with the SL Client/Server scheme they use, server performance does seem to translate into client performance.

I have been to the Preview a few times and tried out all the features. One of the testers I met there did indeed tell me it would take a powerful machine to run the full features of 1.9.1 (That is everything turned on not just some features)

I've tested on Preview.

Here is what I'm going to tell you:

If you take some Ajax from under your sink and smoke it, magical elves will emerge from your ear canal and take you on a journey of sight and sound that will exceed the greatest heights of human imagination. You will be so amazed by this new reality that your perception will expand beyond all the borders of existence. With the wisdom so gained from this trip, you will be capable of re-writing SL from scratch. This new version will run on any hardware, ever, without any performance degredation.

You will be a messiah among mortal men and society will thank you for your contribution with naked virgins and Hawaiian-style roasted pigs.

Hey man, doubt it if you want, but I'm a tester on Preview and evidently our word is gospel. Get to smoking, chief.

This is different from now in what way? To have everything turned on, including local lighting, shadows, bump mapping, shiny, anisotropic filtering, ripple water, and other detail effects takes a powerful machine and modern card to get a decent frame rate. Something has to give, Magnum. You have an old video card and an old computer - you can't expect to run all the new features perfectly.

No wonder the tekkiwikiscripterati are falling all over themselves to use AJAX on their web sites. It all makes sense now.

I want an option to turn flexiprims off

They're also using Ajax up their noses.

Go figure.

I use Ajax to clean my kitchen sink. *shrug* Had no idea it could run webapps or cause life-altering hallucinations. Course I never tried smoking it.

MM

I once tried smoking aspirin.

It's the sort of thing you only do once.

I once tried to smoke pine tree needles, rolled in newspaper and kept in place with scotch tape ... best thing I ever tried to be sick and miss classes