Second Life Forums Archive - Representative Assembly Meeting Minutes (in Color)

Representative Assembly Meeting Minutes (in Color)
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:43 I finished some code that I've been working on for a few weeks and thought I would demonstrate it be reposting our RA Meeting Minutes. I've found that reading meeting logs can be made much easier if the text is colorized by speaker. If you're interested in this tool, it's called "transcript" and can be found here. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:46 RA Meeting on 30 January 2005 - Part 1 of 4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyn should be right here. Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello! Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hello all! Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdee! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello 'all' being Sudane, I see... lol Sudane Erato: hi! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm why a penguin? Sudane Erato: penguin has some notecards Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Sudane Erato: 9 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should have been a chicken, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That's a good way to give out cards. Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Sudane Erato: what is it about here! Gwyneth Llewelyn: ? Sudane Erato: RTD and FPS are fine! Sudane Erato: but I die! Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I have found a nifty trick... Gwyneth Llewelyn: under Preferences \| Options... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Reduce the drawing distance to just 64 m Sudane Erato: yeah? Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means, 8 times less objects and textures to render. Sudane Erato: oh. i'll try it Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also means that you'll get a very foggy environment on open spaces Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since then, I'm able to get an average of 10 fps on busy sims.... hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have the Drop draw distance if FPS < 2 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, hello there Psau Psau Mfume: hello =) Sudane Erato: hi! Psau Mfume: hihi =) Sudane Erato: gwyn, i think that is much better! Sudane Erato: thanks! Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does wonders for my slow Mac... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can't possible imagine how I managed to survive the past year without that, lol Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm not supposed to be here, cause I'm not in the RA but I thought I'd drop in if you have questions about my bills. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika... Sudane Erato: LOL! lots! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I re-read the constitution... Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I think that the RA meetings are supposed to be 'public'... right? Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes! Ulrika Zugzwang: That's true. Sudane Erato: I think that only makes sense! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you're more than welcome to stay. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And anyway... IF we agree upon anything... Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: it means that the SC could already veto us, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Sudane Erato: LOL! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: do we have a minimum quorum on the RA? Sudane Erato: not yet i think? Sudane Erato: wouldn't that be part of the rules? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, probably. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing on the Constitution... Sudane Erato: Sure! although I probably have everything Sudane Erato: you must know exactly what you're going to do! Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't think we have a minimum. Sudane Erato: I'll be really interested to see Ulrika Zugzwang: How should we handle it when only a fraction shows up? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should be reading the notecards... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Well, majority rules... Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we just reduce the vote to whomever is present? Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds good to me. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have just 2 people here, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: Well the penguin make three. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sudane Erato: question? how do you turn off the fog? Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember there is an option for that.... Ulrika Zugzwang: SHIFT-ALT-Minus Sudane Erato: yeah, but i can't find it in Debug Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Sudane... I can't get the notecards from inside the penguin Ulrika Zugzwang: But you have to have the debug menu on. Ulrika Zugzwang: That's CTRL-ALT-D Ulrika Zugzwang: So first CTRL-ALT-D to enable the debug menu, then ALT-SHIFT-Minus Sudane Erato: thanks. worked Sudane Erato: now, for the penguin? Sudane Erato: he's got every conceivable permission enabled! Stephen Grayson is offline Sudane Erato: I can hand them out, of course Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait wait Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I have that magic notecard dispenser script with me... Gwyneth Llewelyn: just one second Sudane Erato: but with that, you have to name the card, i think? Sudane Erato: and it only gives out one Sudane Erato accepted your inventory offer. Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I'm not mistaken, Sudane, that gives out ALL notecards inside. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon Adamant uses that very same script for her poetry events, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL on the penguin name Psau Mfume: free house! Gwyneth Llewelyn scratches head Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. It worked for me. A click gave me the cards. Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, that script is OLD, still has a silly hover text Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can't touch the penguin myself, hmm Sudane Erato: there, that's better Sudane Erato: wonder why? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Sudane Erato: I left the "!" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I know, I'm probably touching it from the wrong side or something... Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's it Gwyneth Llewelyn: it work now Sudane Erato: Ulrika and Psau, you may want to check out the cards Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to read those... Ulrika Zugzwang: I've got 'em Sudane. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one of the notecards is basically your own suggestions, Sudane... right? Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm reading over the prices right now. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other is the tracking of auctions Sudane Erato: yeah, it's exactly what I posted yesterday Sudane Erato: and yes, i updated them today Sudane Erato: the prices have gotten a bit less over-heated Gwyneth Llewelyn: all those are US$? Sudane Erato: yes Ulrika Zugzwang: Great. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Sudane Erato: the real discussion topic is:... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one more question... Sudane Erato: what might be the relation between them and an Anzere price? Gwyneth Llewelyn: So. Walleye actually had 5 auctions Gwyneth Llewelyn: For 2/3 of the whole land Gwyneth Llewelyn: and all in USD?? Sudane Erato: those are just the larger ones, in US$ Sudane Erato: there were many smaller ones Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, this shows that LL is auctioning for US$ things like 2/3 of the sims? Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices aren't as bad as I thought they would be. Sudane Erato: Gwyn, even whole sims Gwyneth Llewelyn: They're not really wonderful... Sudane Erato: Ulrika, as I said, they're a bit down... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see Walleye for, uh, 7000 US$ or so Sudane Erato: I'm sorry I didn't start this 2 weeks ago Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that's 'only' 40000 sq m or so Sudane Erato: they were selling 1/4's for $400+ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, now I'm confused Ulrika Zugzwang: brb. Keep going. I'll catch up. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok... see you ulrika! Gwyneth Llewelyn: so... Gwyneth Llewelyn: When you have 5 times Walleye listed... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that 5 different plots? Sudane Erato: well, the bottom line is the price/per, Sudane Erato: yes 5 different Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the total price for Walleye.... or rather, for 40,000 sq. m Gwyneth Llewelyn: is around 7 or 8 K US$ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is really a lot! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Half of Shiner... that's 5000 US$ Sudane Erato: ooh, hold on while I pull out the note.. i'm doing this from mem Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thanks Charlotte Gillespie is offline Sudane Erato: no, the idea on the chart is to use each sale to get a price per m2... Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH Sudane Erato: then multiply that price/per times 64000, the size of the whole sim Sudane Erato: that's the column "If Whole Sim" Sudane Erato: Sorry, the columns are wobbly Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, you can't get proper alignment on the notecards Sudane Erato: text files are a pain to make columns Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Sudane Erato: so, none of the sales indicate a whole-sim-price over $1600 Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm really silly, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn't read the top line properly, right right Sudane Erato: which is lower than its been Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that makes sense to me Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know why? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because originally that was how LL thought how much they should charge for private sims Sudane Erato: when I posted in the forum first, the price was over 3000 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn scratches head Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok... Sudane Erato: i think there was an overheated atmosphere 2 weeks ago Sudane Erato: possibly caused by a certain land deal of "Yours Truly" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: I'm just joking Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean the small plot you bought for 150 US$? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Erato: yep Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok... Sudane Erato: Prokofy told me the next day, he had done the same thing again... Sudane Erato: what a dimwit! Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: i then saw other very high priced samll lots Sudane Erato: one 2000 right near the th in Warwick (?) for 150-200 Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Well it seems like we might be able to afford at least part of a sim if we can start saving now. Sudane Erato: i think we said, and its probably important to stick with it, that we need the whole Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That's a lot of bread. Ulrika Zugzwang: $$ Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not just half of it like I proposed last week Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmhmm Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: We'll aim high. Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to mention one other thing to you all. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll post it in the forums too. Sudane Erato: maybe we should set up a contribution list Ulrika Zugzwang: There might be a chance that we can create something even bigger than what we have now. Ulrika Zugzwang: I was going to suggest pitching to the Lindens, the creation of an official "government" sim. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: It would not be M or PG -- that would be decided by those in the sim or sims. Sudane Erato: ? Gwyneth Llewelyn: How do you mean? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. A different zoning scheme? Sudane Erato: but why government? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. FlipperPA Peregrine is offline Ulrika Zugzwang: Self rule. We'd handle everything in 1 or 2 (or more) adjacent sims, they let us keep this piece of land. Sudane Erato: maybe i should ask, which government? Ulrika Zugzwang: Make it a long-term trial. Ulrika Zugzwang: We'd go with the one we have now. Ulrika Zugzwang: Part of the pitch would be that we have the existing infrastructure: voting tools, constitution, etc. Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I'd throw that out there. Sudane Erato: and why would the Lindens go along? after recent communications? Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they want to experiment with self rule but are turned off by a small group of vocal individuals. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: I think if we made them a good offer, perhaps they'd go for it. Sudane Erato: you really think they're interested in the self-rule idea? Ulrika Zugzwang: Something to think about. I give it a 1:10. Ulrika Zugzwang: I do think they are. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Sudane, they really are. Ulrika Zugzwang: Didn't they recently hire a government liason? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is... Ulrika Zugzwang: Is it Chris Linden? Sudane Erato: and the obstacle to them is the "bad press"? Gwyneth Llewelyn: What? Really?!? Ulrika Zugzwang: I believe so. I've contacted Haney for more information. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trouble is, Haney said they weren't into 'funding' new projects... Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll let you know if he replies. Ulrika Zugzwang: They wouldn't need to. Ulrika Zugzwang: We would pay, but keep this land. Ulrika Zugzwang: With the agreement that we'd administer all the other land for them. Sudane Erato: and what is implied in "administer" Ulrika Zugzwang: Other pepole would buy that land but be under our jurisdiction. Ulrika Zugzwang: Well. We'd do what we're doing now. Sudane Erato: collect tier? _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:47 RA Meeting on 30 January 2005 - Part 2 of 4 Ulrika Zugzwang: No, they'd have to do that like normal. Ulrika Zugzwang: We'd have to handle griefing, complaints, covenants., etc. Ulrika Zugzwang: Hold elections among the citizens. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so that's basically proposal #1 - we make them an US$ offer for the land and pay tier Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in return, they don't auction off Anzere, but sell it directly to the group. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes, but it also includes the creation of "government sims"". Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that is? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: the problem we take off their hands are complaints, griefing, etc? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, was that already announced on the forums? hehe Sudane Erato: is that really what they want out of self-government? Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't know. I've asked Haney to send me a contact within the Lindens to discuss this with. Ulrika Zugzwang: They key is finding someone to bounce ideas with. Ulrika Zugzwang: It'll take a while. Haney is slooooow. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ulrika Zugzwang: Sudane Erato: hello Unhygenix! Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello. Unhygienix Gullwing: Hallo Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Unhygienix, well met again Unhygienix Gullwing: I am und tourist Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tourists are most welcome Unhygienix Gullwing: Am seeking ze...... 'ow you say? Sudane Erato: so are we all Unhygienix Gullwing: "Red Light District" Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is PG land, lol Sudane Erato: wrong address Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Unhygienix Unhygienix Gullwing: So this is Neualtenburg, huh? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Just this room. Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, it is Unhygienix Gullwing: It's um.....well, it's smaller than I expected Ulrika Zugzwang: It's just 1/2 a sim. Unhygienix Gullwing: Will it be expanding to outside the room soon? Psau Mfume: heh Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol don't mind Ulrika, Unhygienix... she's teasing you, we have half of a sim, not just the room... Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the other half is no-build, hehe Unhygienix Gullwing: I know, I was teasing her right back Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I'm acting silly as usual Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we go forward with the proceedings? Unhygienix Gullwing: ! Unhygienix Gullwing: Oh, I'm sorry Unhygienix Gullwing: I didn't realize this was a meeting Gwyneth Llewelyn: fellow RA members, I feel that we can't really have a vote on this with just 2 members, worse than that, we just have one party represented here.... Unhygienix Gullwing: Take care Ulrika Zugzwang: That's OK Unhygienix. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, it's open to the public, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: We haven't still disclosed our plans to take over the world... Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, I'm at a loss now... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not sure if we have enough people to do some decisions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari said that she would TRY to be around Ulrika Zugzwang: I think we should. Sudane Erato: Gwyn, I'm sure we haven't Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can wait... I have at least 'free time' in Sl until noon PST Ulrika Zugzwang: If they don't want to show, they don't get to vote. Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that an official declaration of the SC, Ulrika? Sudane Erato: i think, unfortaunetly, that we have to have a meeting with a certain number Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... we could propose a bill for that Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Although, we'd then need to define the minimum acceptable notice for a meeting. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'd need at least 50% + 1 members present Sudane Erato: perhaps at least one from each party... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And at least one representative of each party Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: What if they never show? Ulrika Zugzwang: They could cripple the govt. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a serious problem, Ulrika Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: that is a problem Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... Gwyneth Llewelyn scratches head* Sudane Erato: unless we change the form of government to a monarchy Ulrika Zugzwang: If the Clown Party had 1 member and they never showed ... Sudane Erato: a friend of mine suggested we appoint a Kaiser Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chairwoman of the RA would expell the missing members, and ask the party to designate substitutes Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane, take a look at one old post in the Neualtenburg forums, I want to create the Monarchist Cause, an association to promote hereditary monarchy in Neualtenburg, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: I see. Sudane Erato: LOL! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nobody commented on that post, sobs Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, I thought you were Gueen? Ulrika Zugzwang: We actually had that planned Gwyn. Sudane Erato: Queen Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I didn't expect to get elected to the RA, so I dropped the issue Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll show you something ... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Sudane... Head of State and Head of Church, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: pontifex maximus and dictator Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: maybe we should carry on the meetings via the forum Sudane Erato: the SL one Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang gave you ulrika.paint. Gwyneth Llewelyn: can we do polls on the private forums at Sl Universe? Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm rezzing in, Ulrika, but ty Ulrika Zugzwang: That's our stab and creating a historical monarchy. Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Sudane Erato: LOL Ulrika! Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww lol that is so cool! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha Ulrika Zugzwang: We were thinking that everyone who was a founding member should be immortalized. Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ulrika Zugzwang: That's Kendra's first image. Ulrika Zugzwang: Hee hee. Sudane Erato: commision frames, and hang them around us Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can have them here at the unfinished RA Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hang them on the walls or so... Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. Ok, back to serious business for a while... Gwyneth Llewelyn: So. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a stalemate. We have 6 or 7 bills to pass Gwyneth Llewelyn: And just two members of the RA Gwyneth Llewelyn: While I think we should have a minimum of members attending... Sudane Erato: we do, but I for one don't feel i understand the issues fully Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trouble is, we may NEVER have that minimum. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ulrika is here to explain. Sudane Erato: thats why I suggested a written up bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead and ask Sudane Erato: well, which is Bill #1? Selador Cellardoor is online Gwyneth Llewelyn: one sec, I' loggin in to the forums... Sudane Erato: We need to do this in a more orderly fashion Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: The first one is the elimination of the 10% event tax. Gwyneth Llewelyn: For events. Yes. Sudane Erato: OK, can we have a summary (sorry) of the whole finance thing, since this tax is what makes up the city's finances? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. Sudane Erato: i'm not very knowledgeable about this Ulrika Zugzwang: Currently all money is made by taxing sales and events. Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can get the sales figures from the Ulrika's Heim website Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a flat 10% rate. Sudane Erato: OK Ulrika Zugzwang: Info is at: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor Ulrika Zugzwang: Everything is transparent. Ulrika Zugzwang: In short, we aren't make money. Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: do we have expenses at this time? Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope. Ulrika Zugzwang: Just land-tier fees. Sudane Erato: LOL Sudane Erato: but are the land tier fees an organized expense? Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope. Sudane Erato: or are they just contributed by whover can? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they are. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd like to organize them. Ulrika Zugzwang: But that's after we get people living here. Ulrika Zugzwang: Which is another bill. Sudane Erato: Yes, I think that would be first Ulrika Zugzwang: And months down the road. Sudane Erato: because, you can't go passing taxation bills without the spending plan Ulrika Zugzwang: Our goal is to have rent and sales pay for land tier. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, currently everything done here has been for free... so we haven't paid for anything except land tier Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: you said, there is no income now? Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is income Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just no profit Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor/?show=statistics Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Government has gotten L$4000 Sudane Erato: Gottcha Gwyneth Llewelyn: in sales tax. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. $4k. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But over 4 months or so... Ulrika Zugzwang: We can use that to buy a sandwich. Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely Ulrika Zugzwang: It's 3 months. Ulrika Zugzwang: But yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes. Sorry. 3 months Sudane Erato: will the Lindens take L$ for tier? Ulrika Zugzwang: No. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not worth it, we need to exchange it at the GOM Ulrika Zugzwang: But we can sell money on the Gaming Open Market. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need around, say L$ 30,000 per month or so Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning, under the current model - only based upon sales taxes - an income on L$ 300,000 with sales. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's not IMPOSSIBLE.... Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: It's dang near impossible. Sudane Erato: it probably is impossible in the current climate Ulrika Zugzwang: That's why I think rentals might be a solution. They can be at 80%. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But pretty hard, when you just have 10 items for sale or so, and one accounts for about 90% of all Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is not whether we should charge the event tax Ulrika Zugzwang: Meaning most the revenue goes to the city. Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is attracting income generators Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika's bill #3 is about that... Sudane Erato: and to do that, we have to insure the long term existence of Neualt Sudane Erato: otherwise, who would come Sudane Erato: the Bill relating to hosting new member events seems to me directly relevant Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both are related... you need to insure the long-term existence of Neualtenburg, and create a source of income Sudane Erato: sounds like we could easy pass the no tax events bill.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes... Sudane Erato: because, it wounldn't matter, one way or the other Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that's Ulrika's point. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And since contest events do not get any financial support from the Lindens, anyway... Ulrika Zugzwang: It's too much trouble and could be a disincentive. Sudane Erato: well, thank yo for putting up with my slow comprehension... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Ulrika Zugzwang: No problem. Ulrika Zugzwang: Understanding is a good thing. Sudane Erato: its what I need to grab onto something Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I also vote for that bill to pass. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it's unanimous? hehe Sudane Erato: I too Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2... Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Election of new RA in Two Months Gwyneth Llewelyn: We discussed this earlier, that the first term of the RA should be shorter. Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to say that Talen will not support this. Ulrika Zugzwang: He's been against a two month term since the beginning. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Well. Talen should be here to vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you're right. Sudane Erato: But Talen has neither participated in a meeting... Sudane Erato: nor posted anything since the election Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Talen was part of the provisory government and was precisely working on the RA Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not against the 2 month term, neither in favour... _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:47 RA Meeting on 30 January 2005 - Part 3 of 4 Ulrika Zugzwang: I also thought it would be a good time to set a deadline. Sudane Erato: without this bill, what is the term length? Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I may review my opinion if people fail to meet Ulrika Zugzwang: To get folks thinking about the impending deadline of the city lease. Ulrika Zugzwang: There is no term limit. Ulrika Zugzwang: We thought we'd work it out. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uhm Sudane Erato: well, the next election? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, checking on the Constitution.... Ulrika Zugzwang: Remember, we took out the length of terms. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: Because of all the controversy surrounding them. Ulrika Zugzwang: So this is something that should will go in the constitution. Sudane Erato: well, we should pass some kind of length Ulrika Zugzwang: should Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm, not necessarily Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Sudane Erato: the real problem is participation... Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have three options... Gwyneth Llewelyn: One, pass the bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we can always change it Gwyneth Llewelyn: two, vote to amend the Constitution Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we have the power Gwyneth Llewelyn: Three, ignore the bill Alex Pennyfeather is offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: And postpone the issue to a time where we have more people here. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember, the Constitution says* we should meet once per week in-world at least! Sudane Erato: we must deal; with this participation issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, as Chairwoman of the RA, I hereby declare that we should gently remind our fellow members at the RA that they're failing on their civic duties ( Sudane Erato: agreed... Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: but we should do it in a way calculated to get everyone participating Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'll post on that Sudane Erato: whatever system that might require Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we should create an "RA" group so you can IM among yourselves. Sudane Erato: maybe different than originally imagined Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dragging people by their hands and feet is perhaps too much... Ulrika Zugzwang: That way you could announce things with it? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a bad idea, Ulrika, but the problem is not having them know about the RA meetings, but actually atending. Ulrika Zugzwang: It would also allow you to discuss things privately as a group here. Sudane Erato: yes, an IM group would be good for communication Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok... Sudane Erato: and security, as Chandra ahas suggested Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. The attendance could be a problem. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill # 1 A, let's create a RA group Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm just worried that people didn't know about it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: when they recivedan IM, they will Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps I wasn't clear enough on my emails & posts...? Ulrika Zugzwang: Or maybe we should IM people several days in advance. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. That sounds good as well Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. You sent an email with this date and time? Sudane Erato: yes, that too Ulrika Zugzwang: That should be sufficient if you did. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, yes... Ulrika Zugzwang: That's even better than a group. Ulrika Zugzwang: Well gosh. If you sent an email, I say that's good enough. Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder now... since you're saying that, you were on the list as well, Ulrika... Sudane Erato: it obviously didn't work Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So probably my email didn't go through? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm a scatter brain. Don't count on me. Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check my email. .... Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me check my outbox... Gwyneth Llewelyn: just one second. Ulrika Zugzwang: You sent one but it didn't have the date and time in it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: can we not count on members to check the SL forum? Sudane Erato: just members, mind you Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. I'm a forum junky so it's hard for me to say. Ulrika Zugzwang: I think members of the RA should check the forums for sure though. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats, You're right. My email was just to remind people to look at the SL Universe forum Sudane Erato: but there, you said, meeting today Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought I wrote the date & time on the email, but I didn't. Ulrika Zugzwang: I guess an email in the future with time and date would be sufficient. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So people probably got the email, thought about going on the forum, but never did see the date & time. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: We should also have a rule that those who don't show don't get a vote. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll do that next time... Sudane Erato: with respose required Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That'll fix it up. Sudane Erato: sorry to be authoritarian Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, that is implicit in the Constitution... it says, simple majority Sudane Erato: but surely there must be a quorum? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Section 6 - Legislative Process and Veto A vote in the RA is a simple majority vote of representative seats. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 vote. Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing is mentioned in the COnstitution. Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, we also need to keep this thing running. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, i also think there should be a quorum Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, since we haven't passed a bill on that yet... Sudane Erato: Usually, a quorum definition would be a rule Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, I propose as a rule that we should have 50% + 1 members (ie. at least 4) and at least one of each party Gwyneth Llewelyn: However we're completely out of order, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill # 2 is supposed to be about the next election day. Sudane Erato: since we don't even meet that rule! Sudane Erato: may I suggest... Sudane Erato: extraordinary times require extraordinary measures Sudane Erato: that we appoint Ulrika and Kendra as members-at-large Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I suggest that we discuss that AFTER we vote upon the other bills Gwyneth Llewelyn: And noooo we can't do that hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That's a bad idea. Sudane Erato: Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's technically impossible, Sudane. Sudane Erato: oh well, I tried Ulrika Zugzwang: I can hear the squealing now. Sudane Erato: we need numbers!!! Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea though. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both hold offices at other branches of government Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dangerous Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not good Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, let's instead make this a meeting about the RA and put the bill off until next time. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Sudane Erato: guys, this is the frontier Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm in no rush. I'll work on the properties and buildings for now. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that. So Bill # 2 is postponed Sudane Erato: law into our own hands Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Sudane Erato: OK, i agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, can we move unto #3? Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: OK Sudane Erato: dfine please Ulrika Zugzwang: Rental units. Can we have them and what cut do land lords get? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill: Rental Unit Cost and Percentage Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, how much should we rent them for? Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what part should be rented at all? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: this is all very complex Ulrika Zugzwang: It is. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I rent the church? It's my favourite building Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, seriously now... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg has residential Viertels Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I think those are the only ones available for rental. Ulrika Zugzwang: (The church does have it's own set of dwellings that belong to it by the town square.) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. True, ulrika Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still haven't occupied a house, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: Those are yours if you want them either to rent or to live in. Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw my event yesterday was an utter failure, no one appeared Gwyneth Llewelyn: sigh Ulrika Zugzwang: Drat. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I posted too late... Ulrika Zugzwang: You need some pose balls. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: what was the event? Ulrika Zugzwang: Pious ones. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm the usual stuff, but a new topic to discuss Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only person willing to attend was a very good friend of mine, but she was already tipsy and tired (it was the day of her SL collaring cerimony, which for the BSDM group is like a wedding) Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, back to rental units... Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please, let me know Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much sq. m. do we have on the Viertels? Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check ... Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Ulrika Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem will be, we cannot make a profit there... Ulrika Zugzwang: About 1500 m^2 in each give or take 200 m^2. Sudane Erato: times how many? Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I remember Ulrika's calculations, we don't have enough sq. m. available to pay for tier using current market prices Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which would be, uh, perhaps L$ 1200/week for that Ulrika Zugzwang: Checking ... Ulrika Zugzwang: We have about 5 of those. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Gwyneth Llewelyn: so 7500 sq m? Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd like to bring them online 1 at a time. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, it makes sense. Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure has about 100 m^2 per floor of space. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait Gwyneth Llewelyn: that sounds good! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see if I can still add things up... Sudane Erato: for a total of 1500 m2? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's 7500 sq, m Sudane Erato: each? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 Viertels, each 1500, so each 15 houses of 100 sq m Sudane Erato: oh! Gwyneth Llewelyn: total, 75 plots with 100 sq m Sudane Erato: my head spins with this... Ulrika Zugzwang: Let's see. We have 5 quarters at 1536, 1632, 1280, 750, and 1000 m^2 Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow Sudane Erato: sorry, but i need to look on paper Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's 6350 or so Ulrika Zugzwang: There are a total of 35 structures. Gwyneth Llewelyn: 35? hm Ulrika Zugzwang: +/- a few. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so they're not equal Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure is identical. Sudane Erato: what are typical leases for SL? Ulrika Zugzwang: Each viertel is different. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm not sure! Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 100 L$/week for 120 sq m or so Sudane Erato: so we need to check that out Gwyneth Llewelyn: depends Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't know the market rate. Let me check a post I made, where I asked some folks... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Ulrika Zugzwang: I got a lot of replies! Let me read that now. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, while on IM, I've just rented a 2048 sq. m. plot for L$500/week, but it's a very special price, way below the current market rate! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that doesn't count Sudane Erato: basically, sounds like 1 L$/m2 Sudane Erato: per week Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's slightly less Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, we can use that figure Ulrika Zugzwang: Random Unsung (Prokofy) suggests $250 per month. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, since we're such nice guys here, lol Sudane Erato: OK, so 4/month Gwyneth Llewelyn: $250 for what? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 100 sq. m? Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: $4 L$/mon for each m2... times 7500 m2 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that makes sense, yes Ulrika Zugzwang: So we should go $100 per week? Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Ulrika. Ulrika Zugzwang: That's a bit high but we have a special place. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sums up rather nicely.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around 24,000 L$ per month... almost enough to pay for tier! Ulrika Zugzwang: so 100 * 35 = 3,500 per month! Gwyneth Llewelyn: No... Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops. Sudane Erato: L$ 30,000 per month by my numbers Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, more like 30,000 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since total space is 6350 sq m or so _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:48 RA Meeting on 30 January 2005 - Part 4 of 4 Ulrika Zugzwang: It's L$100 * 35 houses * 4 weeks/month = 56,000? Sudane Erato: sorry, i was using 7500 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lollllll Ulrika Zugzwang: Crdu. Ulrika Zugzwang: BAH! Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me do that again. Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed Ulrika Zugzwang: L$100 * 35 houses * 4 wk/mo = L$14,000 Ulrika Zugzwang: There. Ulrika Zugzwang: That's good dough! Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's fine, but that only accounts for 3500 sq m Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happened to the rest of the space? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Streets and infrastructure? Ulrika Zugzwang: In a lease, that's L$56 in 4 months - 15 times what we usually get by tax. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: sigh Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll work on increasing density. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, still slightly below what we need for pay the whole tier... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, it's pretty dense right now, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: It will require a complete rebuilding of each district one at a time. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yikes Ulrika Zugzwang: It's OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn scratches head Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll one per week or so. Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, if you say so... Ulrika Zugzwang: So, what kind of cut does the land-lord get? Gwyneth Llewelyn shrugs Gwyneth Llewelyn: well... Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's a tough one Sudane Erato: the city is the landlord, no? Ulrika Zugzwang: The city owns the land but the land lord provides a service by maintaining the land. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, actually, members contributing tier... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That too Gwyneth. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, my feeling is that they should get 100% Ulrika Zugzwang: The person? Ulrika Zugzwang: The landlord I mean? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, the group of tier-contributing members. Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Split among them according to the percentage of tier they hold. Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to use this L$ as a way for us to afford our new home as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, Ulrika Sudane Erato: that should be temproary, until the city budget pays the tier Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: It would come to about US$200. Ulrika Zugzwang: Not too bad. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me suggest this... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we have an alternative option, we'd like to pool ALL money into buying our sim Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Afterwards, landlords get 100% of the income generated from rents Sudane Erato: then who pays the tier? Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means an extra effort to the group members who have payed for tier... Gwyneth Llewelyn: paid Sudane Erato: who pays the tier ongoing? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane, you mean 'now' or 'after we buy the sim'? Sudane Erato: after Gwyneth Llewelyn: A generous group of members right now... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And probably the same generous group afterwards, but, this time, they'll actually get enough money to pay for their tier Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we should duplicate the available area... Sudane Erato: ? Gwyneth Llewelyn: for renting... Gwyneth Llewelyn: That will give near to L$ 30 K, or enough to pay for tier. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, I'm assuming that ALL houses would be rented, lol) Sudane Erato: Long term, it CANNOT be generous members who pay the tier.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Long term, the rentals would pay for tier. Sudane Erato: it must be a responsibility of the government Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to let you two know, that I have to leave in about 15 minutes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sudane Erato: mee too Ulrika Zugzwang: We did bring up a lot of new issues though. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, the alternative would be... pooling all the money together... putting a L$30 K budget for the landlords... and see how we can extract L$ from people Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll try and capture a lot of them in the forums, to spread out the work. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, just 1 bill approved, 1 postponed, and 1 discussed. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a bill # 1 A.... what was it again? Ulrika Zugzwang: We also talked a lot about the RA as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sure. Ulrika Zugzwang: #1 A was the RA group. Ulrika Zugzwang: If you two can summarize the current bill discussions, I'll summarize from the SC standpoint the problems with attendance and what to do with voting when members are absent. Ulrika Zugzwang: It'll be the Constitution Discussion #3. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Sudane Erato: sounds good to me Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, the RA group, yes Sudane Erato: i'd like a summary, so i can understand the issues better Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, I'll try to get you an email on that... Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, I wanted to say not to be too rough on those who didn't show. They donate a lot of tier. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean on the transcript... Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ulrika Gwyneth Llewelyn: It will be more a plea and not a grumbling Sudane Erato: i feel we need understanding Sudane Erato: if people are donating tier.. Sudane Erato: but not participating... Sudane Erato: what is underlying their interest? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. I was also hoping we could come up on a 'citizen's tax' for the non/contributing members of tier Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: (like myself!) Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: and me Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah! That's an interesting thought. Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe you should submit that as a bill. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will. Ulrika Zugzwang: I've been thinking of a way to remove nonproductive members. Ulrika Zugzwang: We even had a small group of members that I didn't know existed who jumped in just for the vote. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should have done before. However, we can always propose new bills inside the RA meetings. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Right Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they were added by Talen at the last minute. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ulrika! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha Ulrika Zugzwang: Sudane Erato: /no Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, that's not so bad, really. Ulrika Zugzwang: Naw. It didn't affect the outcome of the election. Sudane Erato: any way to get new members, we should Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why the 'citizen's tax' is a good idea Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we could have a trial period for new members so we don't scare them away. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, new citizens just popping up from nowhere... Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will have either to pay that tax, contribute tier... or go out of the Neualtenbrug group Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time for me to go Ulrika Zugzwang: OK! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we just say bye bye? Sudane Erato: we have to make a "benefit" for being in Neualt! Ulrika Zugzwang: Thanks for letting me hang out. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, benefit Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Being hated by everybody in SL, etc Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha! Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: That's benefit enough. Sudane Erato: no Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you're welcome, ulrika & Psau, as said, these meetings are supposed to be public... Sudane Erato: yes, thank you! Sudane Erato: can we suggest next week, same time? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, if you're willing to contribute tier, this means we'll manage the land and rent it out, keep it free from griefers, etc. and thus make your investment a piece of cake to handle Sudane Erato: Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea. Ulrika Zugzwang: Almost time for the Thinker's meeting Gwyn. Sudane Erato: I'm hoping to contribute tier, once I get my personal land affairs straightened out Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes. Unless someone votes against it, we'll have the RA meetings same place, same hour Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Ulrika, good guess Sudane Erato: good Sudane Erato: well, my best to all! Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao everyone. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, cheers to all and thanks for attending, hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can;t forget to take a copy this time* Psau Mfume: take care everyone =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you didn't fall asleep, Psau, lol Sudane Erato: hehe Psau Mfume: naw, was sorting my inventory =) Sudane Erato: lol Psau Mfume: it's still a mess =( Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:59 RA Meeting on 06 February 2005 - Part 1 of 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Roberta Always punctual! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Sudane! Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm it seems that we're not many - again. Sudane Erato: thanks for the draw distance tip! Sudane Erato: it really works! Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's right... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I've been using it ever since, Sudane... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Roberta! Sudane Erato: hi Roberta Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw, do any of you have either Talen Morgan or Christiano's calling card? Sudane Erato: no, i don't Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have neither... wasn't able to IM them, just email... Sudane Erato: don;t people check their email!? Gwyneth Llewelyn shrugs Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some don't.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL! Sudane Erato: speak of the devil Talen Morgan: greetings all Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen DOES read the mail, hehe Sudane Erato: hello! You have offered to exchange calling cards with Talen Morgan. You have exchanged calling cards with Talen Morgan. Gwyneth Llewelyn: This time, I'll offer to trade cards with you, Talen Roberta Dalek: back Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me add you to the 'spam group' hehe Talen Morgan: not sure if Pen will be here Sudane Erato: she still have family in? Roberta Dalek: I have several email accounts - the best way to contact me really is by IM Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's wait a bit Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... I'll try to contact you all on IM and email Talen Morgan: I'm thinking Sunday might not be the best of days to hold meetings....for many its the only family time they have Sudane Erato: what other time would be good for all? Talen Morgan: Thats something we'll have to figure out if we can get everyone in one spot at the same time Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's a good point. Roberta Dalek: any day - but musn't be too late - its 6pm now where I am Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Roberta... Sudane Erato: its 1 in NY Sudane Erato: great time for me Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... we can start by thinking what is better, workdays or weekdays? Sudane Erato: workdays are ok if its between 3 and 6 GT Sudane Erato: PM Roberta Dalek: well 3 is 11pm here Sudane Erato: otherwise it s tough for those of us who work in offices Talen Morgan: sounds like weekends would be better due to the different countries involved Sudane Erato: yeah, thats the trouble with world-wide scheduling Roberta Dalek: could be fun if we ever get someone from Australia or New Zealand Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed Sudane Erato: oh no! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have no problem with 3 PM PST on any workday. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except perhaps for Friday, but even so... Sudane Erato: yes, fri is less good Roberta Dalek: I can't guarantee that I'd be able to make a meeting from 11pm-1am at all times - as sometimes I fall asleep before then Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Sudane Erato: hehe, me too Sudane Erato: lucky i'm further west! Talen Morgan: well there are a few possibilities...as long as each party is represented then we can go back to our prospective parties and discuss the meeting and perhaps the actual voting on bills can be done via website like the election votes Sudane Erato: yes, that had been one idea Sudane Erato: i would support it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Roberta Dalek: but peole might not hear all the arguments Talen Morgan: it seems like its the only way time wise that would be workable Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I'd prefer it the other way round... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Discuss IRL, vote on SL Talen Morgan: we will keep minutes of each meeting and they can read the full discussion Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... we also have the option of doing everything on the forums. Sudane Erato: the live meetings are definitely the problem pooint Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I really think that, in spite of all the 'problems' of in-world meetings, you can get faster discussions here. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could have a compromise of holding every week the meeting at a different time slot... Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we would have half the people on one week, and the other half on the next week Talen Morgan: but there is still the very good possibility that not all will show up Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Sudane Erato: Gwyn, i think that would make for a very difficult process Sudane Erato: dis-jointed Roberta Dalek: may be the answer is to find out why people didn't attend rather than presume it is the time Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Hmm Sudane Erato: good point Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I'll think we should do that. Talen Morgan: real life intervenes will be the answer Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keep the meetings for now at Sunday, 10 AM PST Sudane Erato: maybe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ask people why they can't attend... Roberta Dalek: I say keep at the same time and ask people why they didn't attend Gwyneth Llewelyn: And try to fit it on a different time slot. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, roberta, lol Roberta Dalek: I didn't attend the last one cos I didn't know about it, for example Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was entirely my fault, I do apologise... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a transcript... still 'raw' Talen Morgan: I say keep the meetings at this time slot ....we are supposed to keep minutes anyway...deliver the minutes to all members and have the actual vote on the website Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll give the notecard to both you and Talen... Roberta Dalek: for accountability Roberta Dalek: we need to be publically publishing minutes etc Talen Morgan: yes Sudane Erato: hehe that will be a long post! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen... the only reason why I don't like that, is that it makes these meetings rather pointless... we could just discuss the issues on the forums Roberta Dalek: no parliament meets in secret Roberta Dalek accepted your inventory offer. Sudane Erato: but i don't think they should be edited Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol the problem is all the annoying 'XXX is online' or 'SL Exchange delivered object YYY' Talen Morgan: it wouldnt make these meetings pointless but the fact is I doubt there will ever be full attendance here Gwyneth Llewelyn: I duobt that as well, Talen... sigh Roberta Dalek: a discussion on the forum would involve more than the senate Sudane Erato: can't you opt those out of chat? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish I could. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Roberta, we have private forums for that... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we could have. Roberta Dalek: yes - but we still need to tell the wider community what is going on - even if it is a notecard giver or library in neuberg Roberta Dalek: in fact I favour a library Sudane Erato: Roberta, i think those are really good ideas Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen... I meant 'pointless' just in the way that this would be a place 'just for talk' but not for making decisions. So I'd say people would skip attending in-world meetings and conveniently browse the forums and do the voting there... Talen Morgan: I thought we spoke earlier of having a notecard giver outside the meeting chamber Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I may be wrong.... Sudane Erato: a LOT of people don't use the forums Roberta Dalek: I agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I also agree on the notecard dispenser Roberta Dalek: A public record in world is better Sudane Erato: and the forums are not a part of SL Talen Morgan: I think we should use the same method for voting as we did for the election ...it will be more detailed Sudane Erato: a notecard giver is part of SL Sudane Erato: even if people don't use it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen, so a double system, where you authenticate yourself in-world but do the voting off-world? Sudane Erato: sure would be nice if we could do it all in-world Talen Morgan: does matter where the vote takes place as long as the voting is done Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really... just as proceedings go... I feel like there is 'waste of time' meeting in-world if all decisions are done off-world (by voting) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, what's the point in meeting then? Even if we have the minutes... you could vote without ever reading them. Talen Morgan: then set up the kiosk in world to vote and the website gives the results Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, that's accountability! Yes, I agree with such a device. Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But still the question remains... would the kiosk be here in the senate, and you would be able to vote only when we have our meetings... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will people be able to use the kiosk even if they never attended the meetings? Roberta Dalek: I presume the point about kiosk voting would be to enable those to vote who can't attend the meeting Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Roberta Dalek: so the question is should you be able to vote if you didn't attend? Talen Morgan: the kiosk would be here in the senate and hopefully it will be used during an alloted time frame....the meetings should be used to discuss the issues the vote is the vote no matter when it happens Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I propose that we submit that as a bill and vote upon it Talen Morgan: every member votes Sudane Erato: it seems that the natural right of vote does not necessarily include the requirement to attend Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well indeed, Sudane. Roberta Dalek: but irl you can only vote in parliament if you are there Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's my point, and that's why I don't like the idea very much... Gwyneth Llewelyn: However... I think we should vote upon it, lol Roberta Dalek: I propose that we find out why people can't attend first Talen Morgan: in real life parliment member have a duty and it is their job to be there....this isn't real life and many of us have other responcibilities Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Roberta Dalek: so we have some information on which to make a decision Talen Morgan: it doesnt matter why people cant attend ...real life will prevent us all from attending at one time or another... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well... Talen, that's relative... think of Neualtenburg as your local club, not as the Congress or Senate. Then it makes sense. You attend your club's official meetings whenever you have time, and vote when you're present... Sudane Erato: in the US Senate, you don;t have to attend the debate, you just have to physicvally present to vote Roberta Dalek: same in the uk Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, most countries are like that. Talen Morgan: you dont have to be present to vote in the senate ...there are various circumstances when a senator can be absent and still vote Talen Morgan: either way we are a very small group and every vote should count Sudane Erato: perhaps closely defined circumstances Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, clubs, local associations, and even some small-scale assemblies, where people do not work 'full time', function like that... you have to attend to discuss & vote... Sudane Erato: the kiosk could be here all week Sudane Erato: and that would meet the "present" requirement Talen Morgan: I agree with that Roberta Dalek: Ok - I strongly agree that it shouldn't be on any forum Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not the 'attend' requirement Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least that's unanimous, then? No voting on forums/web sites? All voting is done in-world, regardless of the possibility of tying up the kiosk with a Web page? Talen Morgan: yes Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL, that was unanimous Sudane Erato: Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next issue is, for how long should the kiosk be available for voting? Gwyneth Llewelyn: One week? (ie. between meetings) Sudane Erato: sounds good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one day or a few hours? Talen Morgan: I also think that the kiosk should show to all the members ( somehow) who voted what as if we were voting during the meetings Sudane Erato: no Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just during the meetings? Sudane Erato: no, all week, and i think Talen's point is good Talen Morgan: the kiosk should be available for voting for 5 days...the business week perhaps Roberta Dalek: yes - voting shouldn't be secret Gwyneth Llewelyn: Makes sense, if the voting is never 'secret'. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Roberta Dalek: but should close before the next meeting so that results are available Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Roberta. Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, I disagree, but I'm outumbered 3:1, so that bill will pass Roberta Dalek: the meeting should then start with the results of the voting Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'll have a voting machine, and it will be available the whole week for voting... Talen Morgan: yes Talen Morgan: old business then new business Sudane Erato: who will make it? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! So we can close the meeting for today, since we need the kiosk for voting for the next bills, LOL Talen Morgan: we can see if the election kiosk can be subverted for our purpose Sudane Erato: LLOL! Roberta Dalek: the minutes of the meeting should include who voted for what - as this will enable the electorate to decide who they wish to re-elect Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I guess that it is a possibility, Talen... Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it needs some changes... Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The changes are... Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) No secret voting Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Several votes at the same time Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) Notecards with the bills, before the RA member votes Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) Transactions of the meetings. Sudane Erato: yes! _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:59 RA Meeting on 06 February 2005 - Part 2 of 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, minutes of the last meeting... Sudane Erato: notecards for the biils Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Sudane Erato: the only question i have is regarding the secret votes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes? Talen Morgan: it should be one notecard for each bill and each bill should have a number ...to keep things uniform Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Talen... Sudane Erato: that was an issue discussed extensively in the forums before the first election Roberta Dalek: yes - and the library should keep a copy of all bills Talen Morgan: agreed Sudane Erato: sometimes an issue might require secrecy Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Roberta Dalek: can you think of an example? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's a tough one, Sudane. yes. An example would be nice. Sudane Erato: the example used by Ulrika was regarding the possible purchase of land by Neualt Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is a 'secret discussion' Sudane Erato: if it were known our intentions Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're doing that right now. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is a 'voting' Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should be public... Sudane Erato: Ah, perhaps Talen Morgan: I think that issue falls under a general category wheras it is more of a group decission not necessarily a political one Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not 100% sure of that myself, lol Roberta Dalek: agree talen Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, something like that, Talen... Talen Morgan: land is plentiful and we don't need to be secretive about it in fear that someone will try to jack us... Sudane Erato: it is plentiful if we plan to buy new land... Roberta Dalek: the principle of open, transparent and accountable governence is a higher priority Sudane Erato: but that is only one option Roberta Dalek: the nitty gritty of buying land isn't really just a matter for the senate Sudane Erato: but any decision must have the support of the system Sudane Erato: not just a few leaders Talen Morgan: the real issue regarding land is what we are going to do....when it comes time to do whatever we decide then we just do it Roberta Dalek: the senate can delegate the discussions for Foo Bar Sudane Erato: that's why perhaps it is a matter for the seante Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but technically at least it should be our responsability to propose and vote upon a solution. Roberta Dalek: delegate to Foo is what I meant Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with delegation, of course... Sudane Erato: what is Foo Bar? Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, just delegate to 'someone' Talen Morgan: considering that the land involves everyone and many tiers are donated it is a community decision Roberta Dalek: meaning a n other/j doe in this case Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, you raise a very serious point, Talen... Sudane Erato: yes, that is the point Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any suggestions how we should handle it? Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no provision in the Constitution - yet - for a referendum... Talen Morgan: and we still need to figure out the best course of action which most likely will be buying new land as I can't see the lindens selling us this land Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we could discuss a few options, and suggest that the whole community votes for it. Talen Morgan: true Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane Erato: a very difficult dilemma Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, yes... Sudane Erato: bcause whatever the community decision Sudane Erato: there will be individuals who will seek to gain Roberta Dalek: we are still responsible for sorting it out Sudane Erato: true Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with you both... Talen Morgan: not really....considering what we have done so far I see it as an easy thing to deal with...I'm sure we could get a sim if we wanted very easily Roberta Dalek: if the community votes for X, which then doesn't work we need to allow the continuation of the project Talen Morgan: honestly it will fall to those who have donated tier ....these people will be responsible as well as other who donate in doing what is needed Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yuo mean a private sim, or a mainland sim, Talen? Talen Morgan: either Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the issue with a private sim is that there is only one owner. Sudane Erato: in previous discussions, there has been a very great sentiment to stay here Talen Morgan: a mainland sim would make more sense Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Sudane Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, talen Roberta Dalek: Agree a mainland sim would be better Roberta Dalek: but staying in Anzere may not be possible Talen Morgan: theres no reason to stay here. we can never own all the land and the Lindens won't sell to us outright Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, the Lindens change the way the private sims work, but I guess that's not under discussion right now... Sudane Erato: Talen, perhaps i agree... Talen Morgan: you can buy a private sim as a group Sudane Erato: but there is a great deal of feeling to stay here Roberta Dalek: the argument against moving is rebuilding, the argument against staying is that we may end up with random parcels without the room to expand Talen Morgan: one person is still responcible for the tier though but the group can all work the land Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can, talen? But who'll pay for it? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen Morgan: hopefully it will pay for itself...you only need to bring in 50k lindens amonth to pay tier Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta, I think that trying to buy all the land here from public auctions is almost impossible, it needs too much coordination, UNLESS we could convince the Lindens NOT to parcel out the terrain. Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Ulrika pointed out that Haney told her that LL will parcel it out. Roberta Dalek: I don't think they will want to do us a special favour Talen Morgan: the lindens wont deal direct as they will see it as not being fair Roberta Dalek: so - if they will parcel it out then we can't stay here Sudane Erato: do the lindens care about "fair"? Talen Morgan: they care about the appearance of fair Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Talen, that is the common 'feeling', but the truth is, we don't have an official answer to that. Just our own 'feelings' based upon past dealings with the Lindens. Talen Morgan: trust me the Lindens will do exactly what I said..... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think so, roberta. If this gets parcelled out, there is almost no chance for us to get it back. Roberta Dalek: we need to know 100% whether they will parcel it out - if they will (as Haney said) then we need to find another mainland siom Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, talen, I'll give you a 90% confidence on that Roberta Dalek: so we can rebuild Sudane Erato: hehe Talen Morgan: you can buy a sim and have it attached to the mainland Sudane Erato: its still private, right? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 10% is a chance that they react unpredictably to our arguments But it's a very small chance. Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I like that idea. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we can ask them to replicate the terrain here... Sudane Erato: can an alt own a private sim? Talen Morgan: it is just attached to the mainland Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the rebuilding would be very easy. Talen Morgan: anyone or group can own a sim or many sims Sudane Erato: sO uLRIKA'S BANKER ALT COULD OWN THE SIM Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Sudane Erato: sorry Talen Morgan: we can even have seasons then as we can change the terrain Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that's the question. Talen Morgan: yes Roberta Dalek: that would be good - as we could guarantee that they wouldn't sell it Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol seasons, hehe Sudane Erato: very nice. i would love seasons Talen Morgan: snow all the time is dpressin Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen & Sudane... that sounds about the 'best' suggestion so far Sudane Erato: LOL Talen Morgan: a sim would cost 1k US up front and I think we could get that easily Sudane Erato: yes, i think we could Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, as I said once, I can donate US$500, no problem. Talen Morgan: basically 250k lindens Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there wouldn't be a question of tier Roberta Dalek: I live on disability benefit so I couldn't donate money - only time Talen Morgan: and ulrikas idea of a casino would definately help with tier and traffic Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, no problem, Roberta Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Talen... Sudane Erato: Gwyn, why no question of tier? Roberta Dalek: I've offered to host events - like a re-run of my Kraftwerk event Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, what I meant, Sudane, is that private sims don't have tier 'tecnically' Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Uma Bauhaus just needs to pay the Lindens 195 USD every month Sudane Erato: i see Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the private sim does not count towards tier. Roberta Dalek: which she should get from taxes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Roberta. Roberta Dalek: if we sort outselves out Sudane Erato: but individuals could no longer contribute tier? Talen Morgan: and we only need 50k lindens to meet that 195 Roberta Dalek: they wouldn't need to Gwyneth Llewelyn: There would be no need... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we'd want to 'expand' into the mainland, lol Talen Morgan: no you cant contribute tier to a sim Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, this would be much fairer upon the nice people who are donating tier right now. Talen Morgan: its one property individually owned Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, talen... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the more I think about that, the more I like it Roberta Dalek: me too Sudane Erato: yes, perhaps Roberta Dalek: it works on an economic level Talen Morgan: with rentals , taxes, and a possible casino 50k a month is very easy to attain Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can even rename the sim to be 'Neualtenburg' Sudane Erato: but, i strongly feel we must talk with Ulrika and Kendra about this Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Talen Morgan: we will talk with all about this Talen Morgan: but it will be a group decision Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well... this is one of those things that should be 'voted' using the new model. Roberta Dalek: But this does seem to be the way forward Sudane Erato: of course Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, we can vote our suggestion... Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: And eventually do a 'referendum' thingie. Roberta Dalek: more sensible than trying to buy anzere piecemeal Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about timings? Talen Morgan: I dont think it warrants a vote....if parties are interested in putting up the funds to buy a sim and we are in agreement that a sim is warranted then we should do it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Talen. I agree. Roberta Dalek: we don't have to wait until the 4 months is up to move Sudane Erato: no, there must be a vote, i think Gwyneth Llewelyn: My thoughts exactly, Roberta. Roberta Dalek: but obviously the cost starts from when we move Talen Morgan: no...but we should use those four months Gwyneth Llewelyn: The sooner, the better, because I really would like to concentrate on other things ... Roberta Dalek: but we need to build on the new sim in the 4 months Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the private sim CAN be a replica of this one. Roberta Dalek: there is no point in building new things in anzere Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, we can build stuff here, and just ask the Lindens to do a copy & paste Talen Morgan: we should use the free resources we have now to generate income to help with the sim if thats what gets decided Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes sense, talen. Sudane Erato: or we can do a copy and paste Roberta Dalek: we need a casino and a community centre/arts centre to host events Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw the MoMA is looking fantastic... Talen Morgan: casino is easy...I already own 2 and have all the games necessary Sudane Erato: Ulrika is working hard on it Talen Morgan: I can give them to ulrikas alt to use Gwyneth Llewelyn: But most events I've hosted (besides the ones at the Church and the restaurant) have been at the 'empty area' by the Spital... Sudane Erato: great Roberta Dalek: we need to decide whether we want to do house rentals whilst things are up in the air Gwyneth Llewelyn: great, Talen, thanks Talen Morgan: casino's bring in a lot of money Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, house rentals would be a great help towards financing the acquisition of the sim... Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they surely do, talen... especially IF we have our own telehub (which is the case of a private sim) AND the sim is connected to the mainland! Talen Morgan: and house rentals in the sim would help defer costs Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: the issue with house rentals is defining the landlord/city relationship Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Roberta Dalek: uma is the landlord Talen Morgan: yes I just built a casino right next to a telehub...it is very nice ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under the current model, technically, the landlords are the people donating tier... Roberta Dalek: you pay the treasury Sudane Erato: no, Ulrika was right Sudane Erato: there is work involved Sudane Erato: from what I have seen Gwyneth Llewelyn: The future sim will have Uma as landlord, so, the question will be moot... Sudane Erato: its like buying and selling land Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, Sudane? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That we should have someone responsible for dealing with the rentals? Sudane Erato: from what i can see, the landlord must maintain a relationship with the tenant _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 22:59 RA Meeting on 06 February 2005 - Part 3 of 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. setting up the appropriate scripts, running after people, etc. Sudane Erato: yes, running after people Talen Morgan: we are the landlord....the city will take care of it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any volunteers? lol Talen Morgan: there are scripts available to take care of renters Sudane Erato: doesn't seem like you can set it up like a store Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Talen, but I guess Sudane is right... Talen Morgan: each house should have its own land so when they dont pay just return all from that land Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: There often is the need for help... like returning objects and so Gwyneth Llewelyn: So micro-parceling? Roberta Dalek: what is the smallest piece land can be parcelled into? if land is parcelled then that takes care of prims Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds right.... Talen Morgan: and use rental scripts to take the money Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 sq m I think Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or was it 16? Talen Morgan: 16m2 Sudane Erato: very small Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 16. Talen Morgan: so we can parcel the land for rentals which makes it very easy Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... any of you own a private sim? Sudane Erato: hehe! Talen Morgan: and they cant go over their prim limits Gwyneth Llewelyn: I never saw the Estate menu... Talen Morgan: I am in the process of buying one now Sudane Erato: that would be interesting to see Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok, talen. But in theory, the sim owner can even 'eject' people when they're 'owners' of a parcel, right? Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you could actually give the small plots to somebody... Talen Morgan: they wouldnt own the parcel Gwyneth Llewelyn: Charge them rents, etc Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they don't pay, 'remove ownership'. Talen Morgan: the parcel is still owned by the city Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a very, very strong argument for going the way of a private sim! Talen Morgan: but it is parceled so they have a prim limit Sudane Erato: is there a "rental" ownership? Roberta Dalek: no Talen Morgan: no just rental Talen Morgan: you cant sell private sim land Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, under that model - private sim - there 'sort of' is an 'ownership' Talen Morgan: only transfer the whole sim to another Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you can't have the land as yours? Roberta Dalek: but you can parcel and rent Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Parcel & rent is ok. Talen Morgan: we can parcel and rent but they cant own land Gwyneth Llewelyn: But no editing, terraforming, etc... Roberta Dalek: we wouldn't want to sell anyway as we would lose control of the land Talen Morgan: the group would own the land Sudane Erato: i thought that Uma would own the land? Roberta Dalek: I rent from TLC and it is fine Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was my point, Roberta. As Estate owner, you seem to have all nifty tools to 'control' the way stuff is used in the private sim... Talen Morgan: yes no editing ....only group members will be able to work the land Roberta Dalek: Uma would be the owner - but it would be set to group? Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Talen Morgan: the group hasx to buy Talen Morgan: you can tell the lindens we are buying as a group and they set it to group land but uma is still responsible for the payment Sudane Erato: oh! i see Talen Morgan: only one person can own a sim Roberta Dalek: but as uma is the treasury... Roberta Dalek: and not a real person Sudane Erato: but the group is still recognized Roberta Dalek: it works Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I said, this is a particularly good way to get out of this mess... Talen Morgan: yes thats why we set it up before we buy to group so all of the group members can build and return things and work the land Talen Morgan: and its much cheaper than trying to buy parcels in this sim Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, another question, Talen... will that work for ALL members, or just the officers? Talen Morgan: all members Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and that's REALLY true, much much cheaper!) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Sudane Erato: yes, much! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that every member can eject people, or return objects, etc? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen Morgan: i would guess it would cost around 2k real money to purchase this sim in parcels Roberta Dalek: if we managed it Talen Morgan: only officers could eject I think Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is the big 'if' Talen Morgan: not tottaly sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok. Roberta Dalek: and we'd need tier unlike in a private sim Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems that we need a session with Haney or someone else... Roberta Dalek: if think only officers - and the members can vote to demote an officer Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, Talen, since you're buying a private sim, perhaps you could give us feedback on that... Talen Morgan: members can vote to demote an officer Roberta Dalek: that's what recall elections are Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Talen Morgan: absolutely Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, with 50+ people, group elections hardly accomplish anything... Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why I don't trust those, lol Sudane Erato: hehe Roberta Dalek: I presume that we onlt have 3 months left now Talen Morgan: around that Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, we COULD have a Neualtenburger group for doing the proposals and the voting... Talen Morgan: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: No need of scripting kiosks. What do you think? Roberta Dalek: but more groups causes problems Talen Morgan: much easier Talen Morgan: no this would be a RA group Sudane Erato: don't understand Roberta Dalek: I'm generally at my group max Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, me too Roberta Dalek: RA? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Representative Assembly. Talen Morgan: and when a vote is up each member gets it as soon as they log in Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, what do you think? Should we have a kiosk or a group for the bill voting? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only issue would be accountability... Roberta Dalek: are votes secret in group elections? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's a problem. Yes. Talen Morgan: I think a group will work but I dont think it will tell us who voted what which is needed Sudane Erato: sorry, i don't fully understand the group voting Roberta Dalek: we can't have secret voting Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. You're right, I forgot that... Talen Morgan: I dont think it will work as we want it too Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, you can propose things and submit them for voting inside a group. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's a 'seldom used' feature... Talen Morgan: but we should suggest to the lindens that it should be added Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly used to recall officers. Sudane Erato: i see Roberta Dalek: or for adverts normally tbh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, talen. That would be an idea, yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeah, that too, Roberta Roberta Dalek: I think we need to get back to the land point and agree a way forward - will Talen and Gwyn laise with Ulrika and Kendra? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I'll email them... Talen Morgan: hmm wish we had polls in world because they can be set up to show who voted what Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed... Sudane Erato: a kiosk could do that, no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we still need the kiosk. Talen Morgan: yes Talen Morgan: just needs to be scripted Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, I wish I had much more free time for SL Talen Morgan: I can talk to eggy or we ca ask ulrika to taslk to him....easy job for him to create Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could do that in 3 days if nobody'd interrupt me.... however, that's as likely as the Lindens suddenly ofering us Anzere, hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Eggy... pfft Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, he could do it in a few hours Gwyneth Llewelyn: But GETTING him to do anything is the hard part, lol Talen Morgan: yes very true Sudane Erato: does he need $$? Gwyneth Llewelyn: naah Gwyneth Llewelyn: he's an utter anarchist, lol Sudane Erato: LOL Roberta Dalek: can we get feedback re: the land at the next meeting? I think it's important that this doesn't drag on for 3 months... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Agreed, Roberta. Sudane Erato: agree Talen Morgan: I like Anarchist....I'm one myself lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol talen Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are two types of anarchists... Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 'lazy, unpredictable' type Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the 'involved' anarchist Roberta Dalek: active or passive anarchism? Sudane Erato: Involved? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, well, the ones that actually do lots of stuff, hehe Sudane Erato: like involved at the GPO? Gwyneth Llewelyn: GPO? Sudane Erato: sorry... Sudane Erato: my initials wrong Sudane Erato: the world financial summit Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh... I see, lol. Well... Roberta Dalek: anarcho-capitalists are something very different Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let's drop that Talen Morgan: lol Roberta Dalek: anyway... back to business Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) We have a concrete suggestion for solving the land issue, and this should go both to Ulrika & Kendra Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) We should afterwards ask a few questions to the Lindens... Gwyneth Llewelyn: To Slow Haney first Talen Morgan: what do we need to ask them? Sudane Erato: Gwyneth Llewelyn: But probably to others as well, hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Roberta Dalek: yes what do we need to ask them? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) How feasible is for them to change slightly the Group Voting tools? Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. can we expect a timeframe for that? Sudane Erato: but not regarding the sim purchase? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That too Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, that should be 2) Talen Morgan: thats not really a question to ask but something to put in the feature discussion forum....even if they do like it they will take months to implement Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) the group voting things. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that depends. I remember that the Estate functions were implemented quite quickly, between two releases. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's a question of prioritizing work. Talen Morgan: thats true Roberta Dalek: this wouldn't be a priority really Talen Morgan: but that impacted quite a few people who spend money...the group thing will have less impact me thinks Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm probably Gwyneth Llewelyn shrugs Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so we need a scripter again... Roberta Dalek: I still don't understand what you want to ask the Lindens are how Haney comes into this Roberta Dalek: and Sudane Erato: With or without that, the private sim issue stands as the priority Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I just feel that we should explain them our decisions, that's all. Talen Morgan: yes the land situation needs to be resolved one way or another Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: we have nothing needing a referendum to decide Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since they need 2 weeks for setting up the sim... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And perhaps some extra time for copying & pasting Anzere unto the new sim. Talen Morgan: I dont think LL needs any explanation from us.... Sudane Erato: we need a timeline for that decision Gwyneth Llewelyn: No explanation? Hmm. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Sudane Erato: Talen, i agree Talen Morgan: we can copy and paste the entire sim in minutes if need be Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow. How?? Sudane Erato: but, Ulrika and Kendra deserve an explanation Talen Morgan: this building for example Roberta Dalek: yes - Ulrika and Kendra certainly Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... Talen Morgan: select all and drop the whole thing in one piece into inventory then drop it on the new land...keep all selected and position Gwyneth Llewelyn: brb... just 1 min Sudane Erato: talen, question from a newbie (me) Sudane Erato: how do you select all? Talen Morgan: hmmm been a while since I hgave done it myself I have to remember Sudane Erato: if everything were linked... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... I don't really care about the 'how', lol. The great news is that it is POSSIBLE! Sudane Erato: Good! Talen Morgan: I have several of my houses in inventory that arent linked like that...basically click edit land and then ther structure Talen Morgan: I'll remember in time though lol Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: so, what's next? Gwyneth Llewelyn: back, sorry Talen Morgan: click edit land then click then click the structure and all the pievces will be highlighted...then drag to inventory...when you drop click edit land first then drop and all will be selected Sudane Erato: interesting _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:00 RA Meeting on 06 February 2005 - Part 4 of 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And when you drop it again, it will fit into the same way it was before? Talen Morgan: nice when working with big builds that cant be tottaly linked Talen Morgan: probably not but all will be selected so they will all move as one piece Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, talen, precisely. I have to tell that trick to lots of people, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time, we just approved the 'no taxes on events' bill... Talen Morgan: just have to remember to click edit land before you drop the structure Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a second bill to discuss Gwyneth Llewelyn: Regarding the 'time of office' Sudane Erato: term? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since last time there was just Sudane and me, we wanted to discuss that with more people present. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely, you, Talen.... lol Talen Morgan: I think that should wait till we have a voting kiosk up and running Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, but we can discuss it Roberta Dalek: well I think we should stay until we move - and then have naother election? Talen Morgan: waiting for lil ol me lol Sudane Erato: roberta, yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill, s proposed by Ulrika, was to reduce it to 2 months. Roberta Dalek: I don't think we need another election when we are trying to move Talen Morgan: personally I think the terms should be 4 months...I know most of the people involved and 2 months is too short Gwyneth Llewelyn: This will be put to voting on the kiosk, but let's have your opinion... Sudane Erato: perhaps we should move, then call a new election Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ulrika's proposal was just for the NEXT election, not as a general rule! Roberta Dalek: moving will be taking Neualtenburg out of beta, so to speak Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Talen Morgan: yes Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also agree upon that myself. Talen Morgan: we will be version 1.0 Sudane Erato: good! Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this means that I will vote against Ulrika's suggestion) Roberta Dalek: I propose election after move Sudane Erato: guess we all will Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, we move BEFORE the end of the Anzere lease. Roberta Dalek: not in the middle of everything Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Talen proposed that we should use all the alloted time here "for free" to raise more money Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree with that! Sudane Erato: we must move before the end Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, one month before or so Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 weeks notice for the Lindens to set up the new sim. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, around the beginning of May. Talen Morgan: right now very few are even involed so I dont think election terms will make a difference seeing as the same people will probably be involved Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is also a very good argument Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Roberta Dalek: beginning of may is too late Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, here comes a tricky part Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we are unanimous on that... Roberta Dalek: as it is bound to slip Sudane Erato: roberta, I agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'll have 4 votes out of 7 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, unless any of us changes their voting at the kiosk Gwyneth Llewelyn: The probablity is that this Bill will not pass Talen Morgan: why is that? Sudane Erato: we have modified the bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're right. Sudane Erato: so, now it will pass Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new bill is, elections after the move. Sudane Erato: yes Talen Morgan: but the other members should have their say as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be around May 22 or so Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Talen. Sudane Erato: it will be a celebration Sudane Erato: but we should try to move earlier Roberta Dalek: neu-neualtenburg Talen Morgan: we can hold public executions to mark the event ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Erato: lol Sudane Erato: who? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fireworks would be more appropriate Gwyneth Llewelyn shrugs Talen Morgan: ok we can shoot them out of cannons Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Roberta Dalek: do we have an actual date when the 4 months is up? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: May 22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Waiat Gwyneth Llewelyn: rechecking, hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Haney sent me an email Talen Morgan: thats about right I believe Roberta Dalek: when did the lease end? Gwyneth Llewelyn: One of his telegraphic emails... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, on the 16th Talen Morgan: jan 19th I think Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes Sudane Erato: i do not see the benefir of staying here any longer than necessary Gwyneth Llewelyn: 19th was Monday if I recall correctly Talen Morgan: there is great benefit Sudane Erato: yes? Talen Morgan: it gives us time to plan and it gives us time to earn money by using free land Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here is the full text of Haney's mail... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wanted you to know that the lease for Anzere has been extended to May 22, 2005 but won't be extended further due to a change in Linden policy. We appreciate your work. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Erato: but we have not earned money so far.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: 40 K, Sudane! Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's not much, but something! Sudane Erato: I see little likelyhood of our temporary stay causing a change in that Talen Morgan: but we can make an effort to use this free resource to make money before the move and we will need some time to plan Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next bill, which we have discussed last meeting, was about renting houses. Sudane Erato: I have only inspected Ulrika's records Roberta Dalek: we need to get the casino up and running - and we need to get the land ready before the 22nd so we can just open the sim when ready Sudane Erato: gross reveniues were 28,000 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry. Perhaps 28,000 is the correct figure Sudane Erato: which meant 10% for neualt Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, sorry Sudane Erato: the rest for the artisans Gwyneth Llewelyn: very true Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes. Talen Morgan: we can get the sim beforehand but I think we should use the land till the last minute Roberta Dalek: yes Roberta Dalek: as its a free resource Sudane Erato: talen, i agree completely Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, Talen, that would only be a question of a few weeks before May, 22 Sudane Erato: except, the tier then is very expensive Talen Morgan: it is a free resource and I'm sure we can think of ways to use it to our advantage Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Sudane Erato: there is still tier here, no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, actually, I need some clarification... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who runs the events, the RA or the Guild? Talen Morgan: yes but very few are carrying the load as it were Sudane Erato: some will need to carry the new load, too Talen Morgan: no Gwyneth Llewelyn: no! Talen Morgan: only one Roberta Dalek: the new sim won't have tier Sudane Erato: yes yes, i know Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 'new load' will be the city gathering US$195 every month in L$... Talen Morgan: the new sim can only be owned by one person Roberta Dalek: which means that we need to do stuff to make money Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed! Sudane Erato: but i'm saying that there will need to be the responsibility shared Talen Morgan: yes and getting the rental houses and casino if it is agreed on up Sudane Erato: Uma must keep a positive balance in her bank account! Roberta Dalek: I have 15 minutes left btw Talen Morgan: brb Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. You're talking about the 'worse case scenario', meaning, if we CANNOT get around L$ 30,000 every month, what happens then? Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I have to go as well) Sudane Erato: well, yes i am. Roberta Dalek: Well we haven't come close yet Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is a suggestion on a 'citizen's tax' Sudane Erato: I got very discouraged examining Ulrika's records Roberta Dalek: No work was done on the economy, this is why Roberta Dalek: It is do-able Sudane Erato: yes, and this must change Sudane Erato: and until it changes, some must take responsibility Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about the 'citizen's tax'? Roberta Dalek: Okay - renting houses - I propse that we parcel each house - and rent for a market rent using a script to maintain payments Sudane Erato: yes, i like that idea Talen Morgan: if housing and a casino are implemented we will start to see good numbers Gwyneth Llewelyn: 60 citizens, paying 500 per month... Talen Morgan: and we will get merchants to come in as well Sudane Erato: but then there must be a real incentive to be a "citizen" Roberta Dalek: Gwyn - basics would just leave Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let's assume that many will drop Neualtenburg because of the taxes, but we can raise them to L$1000/month Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Talen Morgan: taxing is the wrong choice Roberta Dalek: we need to do stuff first Sudane Erato: hehe Roberta Dalek: lets rent and build the casino and see what the shiortfall is Talen Morgan: rental units will work but if you tax them on top of that no one will live there Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah talen, I was just trying to cover the 'worse case scenario' in case not even renting and the casino and the item sales bring a profit... Roberta Dalek: and then see if we need a flat tax Talen Morgan: merchants will be taxed as well Sudane Erato: someone needs to be "fallback" responsible Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just brainstorming, lol Sudane Erato: just like now Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, uh, Sudane... we (I mean the RA!) is! Talen Morgan: I have no problem with helping with costs Sudane Erato: nor i Talen Morgan: the sim will take time to become self sufficient Roberta Dalek: Ok - as time is limited do we have agreement to start work on the house renting and casino so we don't have to wait another week? Sudane Erato: it just must be agreed that this will be necessary Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can certainly share 1/7th of the cost of the sim... no problem! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta, those need a vote at the kiosk as well Talen Morgan: yes Sudane Erato: I suggest we try to approve them Sudane Erato: however Sudane Erato: here, or kiosk Talen Morgan: and we must be careful if it does pass to let those know that the lease is up in may Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have ANOTHER idea... IM voting. Talen Morgan: I say we use the forums for this first vote while we get the kiosk started Sudane Erato: yes, that could be good Sudane Erato: IM voting Talen Morgan: use the pole option for each item Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forum voting, then... fine by me! Roberta Dalek: as an interim measure Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can see who voted on the polls? I didn't know that.... Talen Morgan: yes Sudane Erato: talen, it must be the private forum then Sudane Erato: or the public will vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Talen Morgan: yes you can set up the pole so you can see who voted for what Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Ok. That's great to know. Does that work on Christiano's forums as well? Talen Morgan: I dont know about SL universe forums but we can check Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Sudane Erato: lets agree to continue this there Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree... Roberta Dalek: I have to go now Talen Morgan: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too Sudane Erato: unless we hear otherwise, same time next week? Talen Morgan: I think we got a lot accomplished Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: i agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a lot, lol, but at least something. The private sim idea was finally sorted out Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because last week we were very sceptic about it... Talen Morgan: thats a lot in my book lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: But now it seems that it's the best choice, by far! Roberta Dalek: and we've agreed to vote on money making suggestions Talen Morgan: wait till aLL OF US ARE PRESENT AND SEE HOW MUCH GETS DONE LOL Roberta Dalek: which is a priority Gwyneth Llewelyn: good point, hehe Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta. I have been getting some suggestions from business investors in SL... Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, no clear trends... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some say 'tear it all apart and just put casinos and malls' Roberta Dalek: well they would Gwyneth Llewelyn: Others say 'invest in GOM' Talen Morgan: if you are speaking of Ginko and Jaqueline they don't know as much as they pretend to Roberta Dalek: we can be a pogressive projevt and be solvent Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, that's really INTERESTING Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love gossip )) Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have heard a very similar argument from a friend, but I dismissed it, actually. Talen Morgan: they will tell you all manner of things but never give you the back up on it....they have both been held to the fire in the general forums and have come up wanting _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:01 RA Meeting on 06 February 2005 - Part 5 of 5 Roberta Dalek: their bank looks like a pyramid scheme tbh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmmmmmm Talen Morgan: it is ...he's using it to fund his casino...if he ever gets nailed by a few high jackpots the bank goes under Roberta Dalek: anyway we can do a hell of a lot better Talen Morgan: I know the games they use and its a very real possibility Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just do it the 'traditional way'... casinos, items, rentals, events... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Roberta Dalek: yes - we just need to do them Sudane Erato: maybe Neualt should start a bank? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, thanks a lot for that piece of info, lol Roberta Dalek: we'd need to decide what the bank would be for and how it would make any money Talen Morgan: just rememeb whoever owns the casino needs to keep about 10-20 k on them at all times to cover possible wins Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's too soon, Sudane... but another thing I'd like to see - perhaps in 2006 - is an Arbitration and Moderation service Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, a Private Court. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's very true, Talen Talen Morgan: mostly never happens but it can Roberta Dalek: the casino would need to be owned by the treasury I presume Talen Morgan: yes Talen Morgan: well no Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, you're the SECOND person telling me that, but I've dismissed the other guy's opinion. Now I'm not so sure if he was just ranting or if he really knew what he was talking about. Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, you just need the machines to deal transactions with Uma Bauhaus. Talen Morgan: the trerasury should be kept seperate and the casino owner should only keep funds for the casino Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed. Sudane Erato: yes Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... I'm sorry... Roberta must leave, and so do I. Roberta Dalek: yep Roberta Dalek: I am supposed to be hosting at 12 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, thanks a lot for your ideas, lol Roberta Dalek: lets hope we get progress Sudane Erato: yes, thank you all! Gwyneth Llewelyn: You've got 1 minute to teleport, Roberta... Talen Morgan: no problem thats what we're all here for Gwyneth Llewelyn: I surely hope so., Roberta Dalek: bye Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... meeting adjourned? lol Talen Morgan: yup Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, let me just keep a copy of history.... Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:10 RA Meeting on 20 February 2005 - Part 1 of 4 Lance LeFay: Maybe we should get started without the rest..? Sudane Erato: we could. Lance LeFay: This is my first one, I just got the invite today. Lance LeFay: Because Pendari is out, or something. Sudane Erato: Yes, so welcome welcome! Roberta Dalek: welcome to RA lance Lance LeFay: Thanks Roberta Dalek: sudane do you want to chair? Sudane Erato: In the penguin i put the bills Sudane Erato: Well, I guess Sudane Erato: feel a bit shy about that Roberta Dalek: i will if you want Sudane Erato: sure! Roberta Dalek: ok Roberta Dalek: Can someone else take the chat log as minutes to post on the forums? Sudane Erato: yes, i can do that Roberta Dalek: great! lets start Lance LeFay: I have an object for that, somewhere.. Roberta Dalek: does everyone have the bills Lance LeFay: Yup Sudane Erato: you have a chat recorder? Lance LeFay: Yeah, I do Lance LeFay: I made it for the first Neualtenburg meeting Sudane Erato: we've got to talk... later Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 1 Elimination of the Events Tax. Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 2 RA Elections in 2 Months. Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 3 Authorizing Residential Rentals. Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 4 Authorizing the Casino. Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 5 Recruiting New Members. Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 6 A Money System. Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 7 Talen Morgan to replace Pendari Lorentz. Roberta Dalek: Ok - I propose that we go through each bill in turn Sudane Erato: yes, good Lance LeFay: Numerically? Sudane Erato: sure. Roberta Dalek: but first of all we need to formally welcome Lance to the RA - representing the MPP - replacing Pendrai Lorenz Roberta Dalek: So welcome Lance LeFay Lance LeFay: Right, but Talen is the head, or at least that's what was voted on Sudane Erato: agreed! Sudane Erato: yes, Roberta Dalek: Talen is the head but is absent from this meeting Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn is online Roberta Dalek: Gywn is the head of the SDF but is also absent Roberta Dalek: Gwyn! Lance LeFay: Speaking of which! Roberta Dalek: yay Sudane Erato: she appears to be coming Lance LeFay: I love it when hair loads. Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry I'm late :( Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn! Lance LeFay: It's okay, we just started Roberta Dalek: Gwyn - the bills are in Sudane's penguin, lance's chat recorder is taking minutes, amd i was chairing in your absence Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh thanks a lot, Roberta! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a big, warm welcome to lance :) Lance LeFay: Thank yeh Roberta Dalek: done! Sudane Erato: Yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, and thanks as well for the 'bill penguin', Sudane :) Roberta Dalek: Gywn - would you like the chair back? Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh no, please go on, Roberta :)( Roberta Dalek: I've propsoed going through each bill in turn Roberta Dalek: Has everyone got the bills? Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: just not me yet, lol Lance LeFay: I'm sure Bill here would be happy to give them to you. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, got them! Sudane Erato: :) I just think of him as Penguin :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh Lance LeFay: Maybe we should vote on it? ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol why not? Roberta Dalek: Bill #1 has already been agreed. That was the elimination of the events tax due to changes in event support Sudane Erato: Yes. Just put there for completeness Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think we can safely go to the next one... Lance LeFay: Agreed, next bill. Roberta Dalek: Bill #2 was proposed by Ulrika and wanted the next RA elections to take place in March. The previous consensus of discussion was that we should wait until we move Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Roberta Dalek: This hasn't been formally voted on Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we should take a formal vote now, since we have certainly over 50% of the RA attending... Sudane Erato: There appear to be many strong opinions about this Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but I also remember that Talen thought that 4 months were ok... Sudane Erato: I would support the wait til after Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we can set the elections for, say, end of May (after the move) Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that will make everybody happy :) Roberta Dalek: yes - lets have a discussion - I propose that it is guillotined at 10.30 - and then a vote Lance LeFay: Sounds good to me. Sudane Erato: guillotined? Lance LeFay: Cut off Sudane Erato: what an image :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha :D Lance LeFay: Certianly gets the point across. Roberta Dalek: we have a lot of business to get through - so having a time limit for each dicussion will ensure we get through most of it - I hope Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're good at this, Roberta, we should have you permanently as Chair :) Sudane Erato: :) Lance LeFay: Okay, so, about the march election dates. Sudane Erato: May Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me present Ulrika's argumens (not mine) on this. Lance LeFay: The bill says march, doesn't it? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika wanted a 'shorter first term'. Roberta Dalek: Ulrika's proposal was that it will help keep the group engaged politically Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm Roberta Dalek: Go Gwyn Sudane Erato: Sorry, right. March is what Ulrika proposed Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that Ulrika proposed this because she also feels that we are really 'just starting' Sudane Erato: true Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that lots of things have really to be in place before we have the Government thingie really operational... Gwyneth Llewelyn: So her idea was, let's have a short term first, concentrate on putting all things we need in place, and do a new election... Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new Government will then start with much more things in place! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I'm strictly speaking for Ulrika, and not my own opinion :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, thinks that the RA should have a 4-month term, as suggested in the forums. Roberta Dalek: Are you finsihed/ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I think I'll just add that I respect Ulrika's opinion, but I tend to agree with Talen. Roberta Dalek: My position would be that the most important thing to set up would be the land we need for our continuation Roberta Dalek: and we should wait until we move - and have a new RA as a new start Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Sudane Erato: I feel that Ulrika has over estimated the involvement in the political process... Roberta Dalek: I don't think we need elections in the middle of everything else Sudane Erato: both elections and on-going RA Lance LeFay: I agree with Talen as well. I don't think the RA has had enough time yet (or will by the 20th) to accomplish much. Lance LeFay: But should establish itself by May. Sudane Erato: I think we need to establish stability, even with our newly elected unit Sudane Erato: Then, immediately after we are re-located, we call new elections Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm silent, because I fully agree with all your views :) Roberta Dalek: I agree Sudane Erato: :) Roberta Dalek: So we are talking about elections in the end of may Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Sudane Erato: I suggest elections immediately after e-location, whenever that is Roberta Dalek: I propose amending Ulrika's bill and replacing 19th/20th March will the end of May Roberta Dalek: with Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a short interruption... technically, we should do the following: 1) Vote on the proposed bill (elections in March) and 2) if the bill does not pass, amend it or 3) submit a new bill with a new date. Roberta Dalek: ty Roberta Dalek: Ok - lets vote on the bill as currently stands Lance LeFay: Nay here. Chat Recorder: blah Roberta Dalek: nay Chat Recorder: blah Chat Recorder: blah Roberta Dalek: nay Chat Recorder: blah Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain... Chat Recorder: blah Lance LeFay: Uhoh.. Chat Recorder: blah Sudane Erato: No Chat Recorder: blah Lance LeFay: Chat recorder bugged.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it only reply to aye and nay? Sudane Erato: whats with the chat recorder? Roberta Dalek: I record that as 3 nay, and one abstention Sudane Erato: good Roberta Dalek: The bill therefore falls Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, Lance, you can fix that later :) Lance LeFay: It ran out of memory on one script and tried to go to the next.. but it didn't work for some reason. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, should we propose an amendment to the bill, then? Lance LeFay: My scripts always break at the worst possible moment. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe :) Roberta Dalek: Please propose an amendment Sudane Erato: Lance, I'll keep it Lance LeFay: Yes- general consensus seems to be end of may, yes? Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: OK, I'll go with it. So the date is definite Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to propose a suggestion... Roberta Dalek: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don't know exactly* the date for the 'official move' Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'd propose the 2nd weekend after LL has given us the new sim and we have entirely copied Neualtenburg to the new sim Roberta Dalek: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: This could be slightly eariler or later than May 30th. Lance LeFay: Do we know that we actually are getting a sim? Sudane Erato: that would be closer to my feelings about it Lance LeFay: I've been out of the loop for a little bit. Gwyneth Llewelyn: or May 31st, lol. Forgot that May has 31 days :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Lance, but our consensus is that we should have one private sim. However, this is something to be discussed yet... Lance LeFay: Right, funding could be an... issue. Sudane Erato: A bill has not been prepared about this. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely. We need to know how much income we get from casino & rentals first. Roberta Dalek: this leads on to the discussions around the casino and rentals Sudane Erato: Guess we must. :) Roberta Dalek: so I propose that we leave this until later in the agenda Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So I suggest amending the bill to have elections on the 2nd weekend after the move. Lance LeFay: Agreed- we should pick it back up during the casino bill. Sudane Erato: Agreed Roberta Dalek: what is for sure is that we have to move somewhere Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Sudane Erato: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we vote on that amendment then? Sudane Erato: yes Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on Gymn's amendement Lance LeFay: Why exactly are we going to have to move? Have the lindens said that they're cutting the project after this lease? Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes. Lance LeFay: Ah. Roberta Dalek: change of LL policy Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they stopped promoting 'finantially' residents' projects. Roberta Dalek: so.. all those in favour of gywn's amendment Lance LeFay: But don't we have the tier for this? Lance LeFay: Aye. Roberta Dalek: but not the land Roberta Dalek: aye Sudane Erato: In favor Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to be consisten, I abstain again. Roberta Dalek: okay - i record that as 3 in favour and one abstention Sudane Erato: yes Roberta Dalek: the bill as amended passes Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:13 RA Meeting on 20 February 2005 - Part 2 of 4 Roberta Dalek: me and sudane to organise - and lance to be kept in the loop if he has time Sudane Erato: Agreed. Roberta, we can set a time after the mtg Lance LeFey: It's manageable in a single day, if we devote a couple hours to it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika also suggested that we should do it one Viertel at a time. Sudane Erato: is that a section? Gwyneth Llewelyn: a 'quarter', hehe Roberta Dalek: its a city quarter Sudane Erato: my German is non-existent Gwyneth Llewelyn: Viertel = quarter Sudane Erato: ahhh :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a 'block' if you prefer. A 'neighbourhood'. Whetever. in our city map, each Viertel has it's own colour... Lance LeFey: ALabaster, are you actually still there? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blue, red, green, magenta. Sudane Erato: he is :) Roberta Dalek: i don't see him Lance LeFey: He's back here Lance LeFey: I think he's AFK though. Alabaster Mendicant: hadahfdaahf Lance LeFey: I... see. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. hello Alabaster, I failed completely to notice you :) Alabaster Mendicant: dont worry Alabaster Mendicant: im afk Lance LeFey: He's been there since before you got here ;) Roberta Dalek: ok - well observers are allowed - but he can't contribute as he's not a member of the ra or of the city Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, this is a public meeting to HEAR, not to speak ;) Sudane Erato: :) Roberta Dalek: ok - shall i take a formal group on the setting up of the survey team? Sudane Erato: he's been very quiet Roberta Dalek: vote Sudane Erato: sure, but I guess we should write this up, too Roberta Dalek: the survey team will report back something by the next RA meeting Sudane Erato: good Lance LeFey: Sounds good. Roberta Dalek: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Anyway, one thing we can say is that property rentals will be valid only until the 'move date', or May 22nd, whichever comes first, to be honest with our 'rentees'.... Sudane Erato: In favor Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: And 'aye' on that as well Sudane Erato: Not again! Roberta Dalek: okay - 4 in favour of the setting up of the survey group Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Roberta Dalek: that passes Roberta Dalek: all those in favour of rentals being until move date? Roberta Dalek: aye Lance LeFey: Aye Sudane Erato: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye Roberta Dalek: four in favour - passes Roberta Dalek: Do we need to do anything else on this issue until next week? Second Life: Your object 'Object' went off the world at <225.22,180.79,4077.69> in Anzere. You can find it in your lost and found folder. Lance LeFey: I don't think so. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is something on Sudane's amendment on the bill that we should discuss as well, and is fully independent of 'available houses' or 'how much should we charge' which we will probably discuss next meeting... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: I'd like to understand and study the rent-a-cube concept Sudane Erato: mostly so we understand the issues Roberta Dalek: ok - I can take you to see some if we want Sudane Erato: I think the "no landlord" concept is very attractive Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point is, should renting be done to 'citizens', should rentees become automatically citizens, or should they have a separate status? Roberta Dalek: and will try and get a notecard from the creator Sudane Erato: Gwyn, that's another important point Roberta Dalek: I think rentees should be citizens - as they are living here Lance LeFey: I don't think citizenship should be mandatory for Rentees Lance LeFey: We'd get far less rentals, and if we're going to be depending on rentals for income Lance LeFey: That's a bad thing. Sudane Erato: I think that needs to be part of the Bill of Rights discussion Roberta Dalek: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane... to clarify the rent-o-matic... it's simply a 'clock', set to send IMs to people if they don't pay in time, and alert the owner when someone did not pay. Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to citizenship... hmm Roberta Dalek: its a box that people pay to rent a space - if they do not pay the space becomes available for rent againa Sudane Erato: Must be more than a clock, since it controls the permissions Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have very serious problems with 'outsider renting'. My feeling is , whoever lives in Neualtenburg, contributes to the project, so they should 'become' citizens automatically. Lance LeFey: It can't really be more than a clock Roberta Dalek: not it doesn't control permissions Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, it doesn't control permissions Sudane Erato: Ahh. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That needs manual intervention Lance LeFey: I think that membership, as always should be open, even encouraged to renters, but not mandatory. Roberta Dalek: normally renters expect objects to be set to a group - so that auto return can be set on the land Sudane Erato: Gwyn, lets make that discussion a Bill of Rights thing Roberta Dalek: to remove crap automaticallt Sudane Erato: Can we have a person or committe draft one? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance. My problem is 'what about someone who wants to rent space but doesn't want to be a citizen?; Lance LeFey: Then that's fine. However, in the city, they still have to abide by our rules Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we have a few drafts on the forums already, Sudane! Lance LeFey: Or they're evicted Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance, they would have 'immigrant status' in that case. Sudane Erato: Citizenship, Rights and benefits, and Obligations Sudane Erato: sorry, didn't see them Roberta Dalek: I propose that we leave this until the next meeting Roberta Dalek: and we get a concrete document to discuss Sudane Erato: then we should form one and bring it as a bill Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'll try to read all what was on the forums, and sketch out a resumed version on all discussions, and add a few of my own ideas (including the 'immigrant status') Roberta Dalek: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, aye, I agree on Roberta's proposal Sudane Erato: that would be great, if you can Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's hope so, lol, my past 2 weeks were utter nightmare :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: (RL work, hehe) Roberta Dalek: Ok - shall we call this discussion on bill 3 to a close for this meeting - and i'll recap on what we have agreed Sudane Erato: :) Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Roberta Dalek: we agreed in principal to rent residential properties Lance LeFey: Agreed Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye :) Roberta Dalek: we agreed to survey the hosues we have and report back to the next meeting Roberta Dalek: this is areview Sudane Erato: yes Roberta Dalek: we've already voted :) Lance LeFey: Yes, the agreed I said was to do the review. Gwyneth Llewelyn: right :)))) Sudane Erato: :) Roberta Dalek: we agreed that the mex rental should be until the move date Roberta Dalek: max Sudane Erato: yes. Roberta Dalek: we agreed to come back to everything else ;) Sudane Erato: yes Lance LeFey: So, bill 4, then? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right :) Roberta Dalek: bill 4 - authorising the casino Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, have you told Lance and Roberta about the 'possible friction' we had? Roberta Dalek: no Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, bill #4 is included here just as a reference, we have already approved the casino... Roberta Dalek: we haven't when i checked Lance LeFey: What is the friction? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. There seemed to be a slight misunderstanding on who would build it, and what was the 'style' to be adopted Roberta Dalek: I don't think quorum has been reached Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have two volunteers, Talen and Ulrika Sudane Erato: well, i visited the site, figuring that Talen would be building... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen favours a build integrated into neualtenburgs' 'medieval' setting Lance LeFey: I'd go with Talen, just because Ulrika has done just about everything else. Sudane Erato: but Ulrika has already started a building Lance LeFey: Ah.. Sudane Erato: The style is really not the issue Roberta Dalek: did Ulrika check with anyone before doing this? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, would in any case get the machines, set up stuff, etc Lance LeFey: Well, she started it without approval, didn't she? Sudane Erato: Or, even who does it Sudane Erato: perhaps Lance LeFey: This brings me to something I've been wondering about.. Roberta Dalek: I note that the in wordl tools say that the bill hasn't even passed yet Lance LeFey: How set up is the artisinal guild? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Technically, yes, Lance. She started it without an 'approval' Roberta Dalek: I'm not convinced the guild fucntions Lance LeFey: Because it seems the report and the casino would be passed to the guild Sudane Erato: I've spoken a bit with Catfart Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aah yes, another problem there, lance. Kendra is our Guildmeisterinn, but she doesn;t have much free time now, so the Guild will be run by Catfart for a while . Lance LeFey: But if it isn't really working, we don't have much of a choice but to have RAers do it, do we? Roberta Dalek: ok - thats fine Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe we should propose a bill to shake up the Guild a bit :) Sudane Erato: I think so, tho Cat has said he's interested in working Roberta Dalek: I propose that we don't reward Ulrika for satrting without approval Lance LeFey: Agreed Sudane Erato: No no. I think we should do anything to get a casino going, no matter who starts it. Roberta Dalek: and that the decision on the style is taken by the guild (Catfart), in consultation with Talen who will be setting up the thing Lance LeFey: While Ulrika's intentions are good, she has been overstepping her bounds a bit. She started this project to get a representitive government going, didn't she? Sudane Erato: We must avoid a conflict! Sudane Erato: Yep Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain on that vote as well, I mean, I won't either encourage or discourage Ulrika. There are lots of things done in Neualtenburg without 'proper approval' because we couldn't meet in time :( On the other hand, I also don't think we should Gwyneth Llewelyn: encourage private initiatives Sudane Erato: I agree with Gwyn Lance LeFey: Right, this whole project is about organization and collaboration Roberta Dalek: well if this is going to happen we do actually need to decide Lance LeFey: We need to focus on that primarily Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed on that, lance. Sudane Erato: I have tried to find Talen this weekend, to no avail Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too, Sudane :( :( Lance LeFey: On a side note, about the guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: He was not 100% sure if he would have some time left... Lance LeFey: I have an idea Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's hear ideas :) Sudane Erato: :) Roberta Dalek: We can't take a "we mustn't offend anyone" position as nothing will ever happen otherwise Lance LeFey: Instead of doing the survey of the residences ourselves Lance LeFey: We should comission the guild to do it Sudane Erato: No, it needs to get done! Lance LeFey: So we can test and see if the guild can actually function at this time. Roberta Dalek: No we need to do it pronto Lance LeFey: Let's be honest here- the renting is probobly not going to work before we move. Isn't the move date March 22nd? Sudane Erato: I propose to work with Cat on the budget Sudane Erato: that will see if the Guild can do anything Lance LeFey: That's barely more than a month from now, and we arn't even going to work on pricing or details untill next meeting Roberta Dalek: ok Lance LeFey: After that the script needs to get set up Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move date is May 22nd Roberta Dalek: of course Lance LeFey: Well, then yeah Sudane Erato: I think the RA should simply approve or dis-approve what the committe suggests Lance LeFey: Let's get working on that Roberta Dalek: I'm lost here Sudane Erato: yes Lance LeFey: Never mind what I was saying Roberta Dalek: What are we agreeing to? Lance LeFey: I had the date wrong.. Roberta Dalek: Ok - we have already agreed to do a survey - I presume that still stands Sudane Erato: yes! Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the casino Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well, Lance, sometimes it's great to get the dates wrong, understand that we need to move fast in either case :) So I can agree with your concerns! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the survey stands, and the RA is going to do it. Sudane Erato: yes, we MUST move fast! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, a RA-nominated commitee, to be more precise! Sudane Erato: Thats why the casino matter is a setback Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the casino... Coreina Grace is offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I suggest that we do a 'general vote; Roberta Dalek: As far as I understand it - the discision on the style of the building should be taken by the guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's correct, Roberta Sudane Erato: :( Roberta Dalek: so we leave that to catfart Lance LeFey: Right, and as far as I understand the structure, so should the architect Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can technically interfere, lol Sudane Erato: I disagree Lance LeFey: However, the unapproved initiative is a matter for the RA. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's correct, Lance. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:14 RA Meeting on 20 February 2005 - Part 3 of 4 Sudane Erato: I think we should encourage the building however it gets done Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Roberta Dalek: no 1 - we need to give the overall yay or nay to the idea of a casino Sudane Erato: Which I think the on-line vote did? Lance LeFey: I think that's been agreed, but let's vote Roberta Dalek: this hasn't happened yet according to the in group voting Lance LeFey: I vote Aye. Roberta Dalek: aye Sudane Erato: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought differently before this meeting, but I really think that's overstepping on our 'powers'. Ulrika is a Meister in the Guild and I think that Talen as well. So if it's their job, they should be doing it as best as they can Sudane Erato: which means? Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Sudane, i have checked, the in-world vote hasn't finished yet because I got the dates wrong :( Roberta Dalek: we are deciding on whether to have one or not Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I vote aye on the casino. Sudane Erato: oh :( Roberta Dalek: so far I have three votes in favour Lance LeFey: So Gwyn- Aye? Or nay? Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry, aye aye aye Roberta Dalek: okay - 4 votes in favour - propsoal passes Roberta Dalek: yay! Sudane Erato: goord! Sudane Erato: good DRoberta Dalek: the dispte within the guild should be dealt with by the guild? Lance LeFey: Aye Sudane Erato: we don't know there is a dispute Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point! But I think that should be a problem for the Guild as well Roberta Dalek: we know that there is conflict Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Catfart should dela with it. I vote on having the Guild to sort it out. Gwyneth Llewelyn: deal Roberta Dalek: and we know we need to get a move on Roberta Dalek: okay - lets vote that cartfart should eal with it Lance LeFey: Aye. Roberta Dalek: deal Lance LeFey: Sudane? Sudane Erato: sorry, i'm getting confused Sudane Erato: IM's and chat Lance LeFey: We're voting that Catfart should deal with the dispute. Roberta Dalek: okay - we are voting on the fact that any dispute over the style of the casino should be dealt with by the guild ie catfart Sudane Erato: i think he will not Roberta Dalek: well it is his job to do so Roberta Dalek: if he does not then we need to revists Roberta Dalek: revisit Sudane Erato: we can vote that he should, but he will not Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the wording in the bill should be: 'We think that the Guild should work it out' If Catfart is willing or not, well, that's his problem :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta! Sudane Erato: OK, that would be better, I guess Roberta Dalek: aye Sudane Erato: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye Lance LeFey: Okay, so, are we done with Bill 4? Lance LeFey: Aye. Sudane Erato: yes Roberta Dalek: okay -so 4 ayes - vote passes Roberta Dalek: we agree that the guild should work it out Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, perhaps I should point out a detail on the casino bill... Roberta Dalek: end of bill 4! Roberta Dalek: oh ok Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which are the nitty-gritty details on the finantial plan Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane suggested that she (representing the RA) and the Guild representative for the casino should work them out - together. Nate007 Groshomme is online Sudane Erato: It was a suggestion Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to propose that Sudane should deal with that in the RA's name. Sudane Erato: Someone must Roberta Dalek: yes I agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let's turn the 'suggestion' in a 'formal proposal' Lance LeFey: It sounds good to me. Gwyneth Llewelyn: "We, the Members of the RA, formally endow Sudane Erato as our representative for setting up the operating and financial plan for the casino to be created, working together with the Guild representative" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suonds formal enough? :) Lance LeFey: Yup/ Roberta Dalek: aye Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: I accept if all agree Lance LeFey: So, to the voting? Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on having Sudane as representative. Lance LeFey: AYe. Roberta Dalek: lets vote Roberta Dalek: aye Lance LeFey: Four ayes, then? Sudane Erato: aye Roberta Dalek: ok Roberta Dalek: 4 vote in favour - vote passed Vivianne OFlynn is offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is also a sub-item: the place for the casino. Sudane Erato: :) Antagonistic Protagonist is offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's trivial, but since it's technically 'city space' beyond the original project, to make it very clear, I also feel that we should have a formal agreement Lance LeFey: The space past the bridge? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The reasoning for the place on the far side of the bridge: 1) it's outside the city walls 2) it's near the telehub Sudane Erato: The important thing is the foundation, since it must carry to the new Neualt Gwyneth Llewelyn nods* yes, that one Sudane Erato: I think the locatation now is not so important Gwyneth Llewelyn: No? Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, the Guild should figure out how it looks... Sudane Erato: Because in 2 months it will be moved Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we should say WHERE it should be! Roberta Dalek: yes - so any proposal should be until the date of move Sudane Erato: shrug Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but the casino will be built BEFORE we move! Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why i think we should agree upon the location. Lance LeFey: I think the proposed location is fine. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think it's fine. Roberta Dalek: I agree Sudane Erato: Agreed Roberta Dalek: lets take a formal vote on it Lance LeFey: Aye here. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye. Sudane Erato: Aye Roberta Dalek: eye here Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Roberta Dalek: okay - 4 in favour - proposal passes Gwyneth Llewelyn: There goes #4 :) I don't have anything else to bother you on that one... Roberta Dalek: yay Sudane Erato: Hi! Gwyneth Llewelyn: :) Talen Morgan: greetingsd all Roberta Dalek: welcome talen Lance LeFey: Hey Talen Lance LeFey: We just finished Bill four. Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Talen, welcome, and join us, please! Roberta Dalek: we have just approved the casino bill Talen Morgan: cool Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Roberta Dalek: what was agreed will be in the minutes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Sudane Erato: :) Lance LeFey: The formal party. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The frozen Party! Roberta Dalek: the penguin is the bill provider Sudane Erato: He's got the bills Roberta Dalek: I am chairing Talen Morgan: nice Roberta Dalek: on to bill 5 Talen Morgan: whoa Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touch it to get them, talen, and we'll go to #5 Talen Morgan: theres already been 4 bills passed Talen Morgan: may I get a recap Lance LeFey: Well, the first one was just for reference Lance LeFey: It was the elimination of the event tax Roberta Dalek: bill 2 was amended to say after the move Roberta Dalek: bill 3 we are doing a survey of rentable properties this week Roberta Dalek: bill 3- we approved in principal renting residential properties Roberta Dalek: bill 4 - we approved the casino in porincipal, and the location Roberta Dalek: bill 4 - we nominated sudane to deal with the details on behalf of the ra Roberta Dalek: bill 4 -style of building should be left to the guild to deal with any disputes Talen Morgan: what details Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, the details on the finantial and operational plan... Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is up to the Guild, really :) Lance LeFey: Right, we decided that Catfart will deal with the current issues with the casino. Talen Morgan: what issues? Roberta Dalek: if he doesn't for any reason then we will have to Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since he's the Assistant Guildemeister. Roberta Dalek: we understand that Ulkrika has started building without approval Talen Morgan: ahhh Talen Morgan: i thought she was building a museum Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is another thing, Talen... Sudane Erato: At the location of the casino, she has started a building Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Talen Morgan: gotcha Sudane Erato: and I am concerned that it may inteference with your effort to start one Sudane Erato: you had offered to start this weekend Talen Morgan: yes I could start today and I have off tomorrow Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's excellent :) Sudane Erato: that would be great! Sudane Erato: but we must deal with the walls already there Talen Morgan: but what style of building will it be...old...modern?/ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Well, Talen is a group officer, so that shouldn't be much of a problem. Talen Morgan: we are officers we can remove them if need be lol Roberta Dalek: accessible is the most important issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen... that's something for the Guild to decide, really, not the RA Lance LeFey: I just had an idea... Talen Morgan: but the guild didnt approve her build to be placed their either Lance LeFey: You know how Billy Madison has a private sim (more than one?) and is deploying, so he can't pay the tier (or doesn't want to)? Roberta Dalek: yes Talen Morgan: i already talked to him...waiting for him to get back to me Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... we discussed this, and I proposed that 'allowing a casino to be built', since it's not in the original plan, is a question for the RA. And we said, yes, let's have a casino. Lance LeFey: We could potentially get one from him, if we could come up with the tier. Talen Morgan: we could possibly get it for 650 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, as to the style, and the particulars... Sudane Erato: guys, separate issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Ok, enough recapping, hehe Roberta Dalek: okay - lets finish off the casino Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's move to #5 Roberta Dalek: and then take this as a separate issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed. Sudane Erato: yes Roberta Dalek: no - if lance can build this weekend then we do need to decide Roberta Dalek: not lance - talen Lance LeFey: Er, yeah :) Lance LeFey: You do NOT want me to build. Talen Morgan: lol Sudane Erato: but we did decide, no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is there to decide, Roberta? The casino is approved. It's now up to the Guild to do what they feel it's best Roberta Dalek: we didn't decide what to do with Ulrika's build Sudane Erato: ASAP! Roberta Dalek: we passed it onto the guild ie catfart Lance LeFey: Right Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Sudane Erato: perhaps Talen and Ulrika can discuss it Lance LeFey: We should set him a deadline to resolve this Roberta Dalek: is this okay - or do we need to decide? Object: Your object 'Object' has been returned to you from parcel 'Schloss Neualtenburg' at Anzere 227, 189. Talen Morgan: then we are agreed that nothing will happen until the guild responds correct Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta... we have decided that Catfart should deal with that. Roberta Dalek: okay Gwyneth Llewelyn: Argh. Talen Morgan: we cant decide guild matters Roberta Dalek: okay - fine Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, we can't. Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the Guild, if I remind you, is NOT democratic :) Sudane Erato: May we issue a formal and urgent request for the guild to decide this by tomorrow! Talen Morgan: i can start building on my property and drop it when we are ready though Roberta Dalek: Talen - go for it Sudane Erato: That would be good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. that's an EXCELLENT suggestion :) Talen Morgan: just need to know what size we think is appropriate and style Sudane Erato: Size to fit.. there is not much space Roberta Dalek: which is for the guild/ Gwyneth Llewelyn: This really just needs one very simple thing from catfart - just saying 'Talen is going to do the work for us' Roberta Dalek: the size we know from the location Sudane Erato: to the right of the bridge Sudane Erato: as you go out Talen Morgan: lets look at the location after the meeting and I'll figure it out Roberta Dalek: okay Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure! Sudane Erato: good Roberta Dalek: I propose that we take the Billy Madison thig now as emergency business Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5...? Roberta Dalek: before bill 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah drats Talen Morgan: no bills first Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me check how much tier he has. Roberta Dalek: as we have 20 mins Talen Morgan: then new business Sudane Erato: :) the democratic process Talen Morgan: billy isnt doing anything with the sim until he talks to me anyway Sudane Erato: good, teell him we are a discussion party to the talks Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok. So, we could at least agree that we are interested in talking with billy _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:14 RA Meeting on 20 February 2005 - Part 4 of 4 Lance LeFey: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, Sudane, my words exactly, hehe Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5...?!? Roberta Dalek: okay - I propose that we authorise Talen to talk to Billy Sudane Erato: yes! Roberta Dalek: on behalf ot eh ra Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on talen talking to Billy in the RA's name. Roberta Dalek: aye Talen Morgan: works for me Sudane Erato: yes Lance LeFey: AYe Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous again :) Roberta Dalek: 4 in favour - proposal passed Lance LeFey: Sorry I was silent there for a second, had to take a phone call Roberta Dalek: 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, 5 in favour, Roberta... Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Roberta Dalek: okay! Roberta Dalek: back to bill 5 Lance LeFey: Seriously, is there anything we're not in agreement on here? Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... #5, about the 'recruiting events' Talen Morgan: the penguin said Nay I think Sudane Erato: :) no it didn't Penguin: Nay! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I disagree totally on that bill, on the grounds that all events are guild stuff, and not RA stuff. Talen Morgan: see Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Talen Morgan: lol Sudane Erato: lol Lance LeFey: :) Lance LeFey: Right, so, bill 5. Roberta Dalek: I agree - events are a matter for the guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me repeat my voting statement on #5... Events are the guild's responsability, not the RA's. Sudane Erato: But Gwyn, we must cause recruitung to happen Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's something entirely different, Sudane Sudane Erato: And... Sudane Erato: how... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, yes, we should encourage the Guild to set up 'recruiting events' Lance LeFey: Right. We need to find an alternate way to encourage membership.. but the RA should not hold events Sudane Erato: Let me understand.. Sudane Erato: The Guild are the crafts? Lance LeFey: I think we should comission the guild for an ad campaign.. but that's for another bill Talen Morgan: we shouldnt be discussing events unless we are talking taxes or problems with events Lance LeFey: The guild are crafts, culture, etc. Sudane Erato: the craetors of sellable things? Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, since I'm a Guild member myself, and will probably share with Catfart the responsability of event coordination, I'll probably accept bill #5 internally in the Guild :) :) :) Lance LeFey: I'm a guildy too. Sudane Erato: sigh** Talen Morgan: i'm a guild member also and you have my support Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me try to explain my reasoning... Roberta Dalek: please do Gwyneth Llewelyn: Crafts (including events) are the responsability of the Guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's crystal clear. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA, of course, may always tell the Guild whatever we please Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not organize stuff by ourselves! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, my feeling is, this bill has been presented to the wrong place, and I vote against it :) Sudane Erato: I propose that this not be considered an event... Talen Morgan: we cant exactly tell the guild whatever we please...they have veto right on any bill we make concerning them Lance LeFey: Maybe we should ammend it to say that we should comission the guild for the weekly event? Sudane Erato: That it be considered promotion.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, of course, I also strongly feel that Ulrika's idea is EXCELLENT, and that we should seriously encourage the Guild to use Ulrika's ideas with the amendments by Sudane Roberta Dalek: promotional events are events Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's somethin completely different! Sudane Erato: And that the RA commision promotion Talen Morgan: we could however as the RA make a bill allotting moneys to the guild for events Lance LeFey: Right Sudane Erato: Neualt must promote itself Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another good idea, talen... since we do the budget and the Guild approves it. Sudane Erato: And therefore, this is one way Lance LeFey: I have an idea for another ammendment to the bill. Lance LeFey: The RA should comission the guild for an advertising campaign for Neualtenburg Sudane Erato: think: Marketing Lance LeFey: That encompasses more than events Talen Morgan: thats not our purpose Talen Morgan: we can allocate moneys but it is up to the guild to do as they see fit Roberta Dalek: ok - we have 10 mins to go Sudane Erato: I don't understand why it is not our purpose Lance LeFey: I thought the constitution said the RA had the power to comission the guild? Sudane Erato: our purpose is the survival of Neualtenburg Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes. Lance LeFey: But they have veto power through popular vote Talen Morgan: our purpose is law...the guilds purpose is creation and promotion Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on the bill as currently stands - and then take any amendments if the bill fallls Lance LeFey: Nay Lance LeFey: Votes..? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't object to comissioning a campaign for the promotion of Neualtenburg,. Roberta Dalek: nay Sudane Erato: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nay on the bill #5! Lance LeFey: We're voting on the bill as it stands Lance LeFey: Talen? Sudane Erato: :) Lance LeFey: Talen, you there? Gwyneth Llewelyn: we lost Talen, hehe Roberta Dalek: okay Roberta Dalek: well we have 3 against and 1 in favour so bill 5 falls Roberta Dalek: any amendents? Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, at least two... Lance LeFey: I think the general consensus, save talen, was that we comission the guild for the events Lance LeFey: and alott funding to it Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Change the bill to a 'comission' for the Guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Allocate a budget Lance LeFey: Funding which we don't really have.. Sudane Erato: right, we do not Sudane Erato: without a budget Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I'll gladly donate L$1000 which is all I have now, lol Lance LeFey: I have 500L on me :) Roberta Dalek: adhoc allocation of money is silly Sudane Erato: I have $, too, but there must be a budget before you donate $ to it! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta blushes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so no budget allocation without a budget. Roberta Dalek: need a budget - bring this back to the next meeting Sudane Erato: yes! Sudane Erato: so let me understand Sudane Erato: the Guild is commissioned to do this Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can only suggest the Guild that we comission them a 'free' event for the promotion of Neualtenburg, using ulrika's suggestions + sudane's amendments. Roberta Dalek: constutionally all events are the responibility of the guild Sudane Erato: and we will allocate funds, if they tell us how much Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta. Lance LeFey: Hmm, maybe it could be classified as educational? Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb talen :) Talen Morgan: grrr dissconnect Lance LeFey: Because they'll be informing people about Neualtenburg. Roberta Dalek: the lindens won't fund it - even if we can make a case for educational Gwyneth Llewelyn: I doubt the Lindens would get it, but there is no harm to ask Haney... Talen Morgan: what is the proposed event Roberta Dalek: they have really restrcitive guidelines - as posted int eh forums Sudane Erato: what are the costs? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Costs? Labour only, and writing a few notes about Neualtenburg Lance LeFey: Yes, Roberta, but we can try- it could be considered educational. Roberta Dalek: the proposed event, and detaiuls must be for the guild Lance LeFey: We're still on the recruitment events, Talen Roberta Dalek: let someone put together a proposal with budget and we'll discuss it then Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: But roberta... we have NO budget yet! Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have a few events running regularly in Neualtenburg... Catfart should be around every minute Roberta Dalek: okay - then we are getting way ahead of ourselves Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any minute Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can suggest the Guild to set up these events... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And organize them Lance LeFey: Three minutes left in the meeting. Roberta Dalek: yep Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #5 never mentioned L$ anyway! Lance LeFey: Right Sudane Erato: i didn't see any costs Roberta Dalek: okay - final vote of the meeting - should we suggest to the guild that they do these events? Lance LeFey: Aye Roberta Dalek: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I say, let's amend bill #5 as an approved suggestion for the Guild to run weekly promotional events... Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye Sudane Erato: yes, if that is the only way Roberta Dalek: talen? Talen Morgan: nay,,,its the responsiblity of all citizens not just the guild Roberta Dalek: okay - well 4 in favour, one againstr Sudane Erato: it will not happen unless we commission it Roberta Dalek: amendment passes Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed. Sudane Erato: but I stay with my aye Roberta Dalek: we can't comission it without knowing what we are commissioning Talen Morgan: it wont happen if we commision it and our job is law not the commisioning of projects Roberta Dalek: someone work that out and we'll do it next meeting Lance LeFey: Talen, yes it is Talen Morgan: technically we have overstepped our bounds Roberta Dalek: 1 min to go Sudane Erato: I'll work on something Lance LeFey: We comission projects for the guild. It's in the constitution Sudane Erato: try and get Cat involved Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're comissioning the Guild to run weekly promotional events, engaging citizens for that purpose. Sudane Erato: :) Roberta Dalek: people sort this out and bring this back Sudane Erato: yes Roberta Dalek: time is up Roberta Dalek: we've had a really productive meeting today Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. We did the best we could, lol Sudane Erato: #6 next week Roberta Dalek: passed loads of business Lance LeFey: Good thing, because I'm getting hungry ;) Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Lance :) Roberta Dalek: someone post the chat log to the forum Sudane Erato: I will Roberta Dalek: ty sudane Talen Morgan: someone show me where the casino is proposed to go so I have an idea on size Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Sudane! Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, let's visit the casino! Sudane Erato: Talen, I'll go and look Roberta Dalek: so great stuff - and more next week Roberta Dalek: thanks everyone for attending Sudane Erato: and Roberta, lets set a time Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for chairing it, Roberta :) Lance LeFey: Right, when on what day? Roberta Dalek: no problem Lance LeFey: I can work around my schedule for most of this week- I just remembered I'm off this week :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say same place and same time... it was worked out quite well this day! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucky you, lance :) Lance LeFey: But wednesday and tomorrow could be hard for me Talen Morgan: whered ya get the penguin...I need one lol Roberta Dalek: we mean for the survey Lance LeFey: Right Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol, sorry! Roberta Dalek: yeah next meeting same time/place next week Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:16 RA Meeting on 06 March 2005 - Part 1 of 4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops Roberta Dalek: and doesn't need to be in the same name Roberta Dalek: hi gywn Sudane Erato: hi! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi : ) Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: so how are you both? :0 Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Kelly Linden Post. Sudane Erato: OK here Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Money Management. Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt New Home. Sudane Erato: how is RL work? Roberta Dalek: I'm fine - it's cold and miserable here - and my heating still doesn't work : ( Roberta Dalek: but apart from that fine : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Roberta... Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw, wondeful dress : ) Sudane Erato: we should all move to Lisbon Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL work is 'under control' Roberta Dalek: ty - not by me... Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol right, here the sun shines and we have 15 degrees Celsius :0 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Erato: : ) Roberta Dalek: woo Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, let me shortly read all the notes in our friendly penguin... Sudane Erato: They're long : ( Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes : ) Roberta Dalek: but ther is only 3 Sudane Erato: but the bills have been on the forum Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and one is not 'a bill' but more some ideas for the private sim... Sudane Erato: i just got that feedback minutes ago Sudane Erato: answer to a question I posted Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, ok, sounds interesting : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any one of you has previewed 1.6 so far? Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too : ) Sudane Erato: I've just read the release notes, and the new forum thread about reactions Roberta Dalek: international keyboard support, unicode, streaming video Roberta Dalek: the first two are useful for the projekt Gwyneth Llewelyn: all those work wonderfully! Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND a searchable inventory, lol Sudane Erato: and the private island business about group deeding Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. That's useful for Neualtenburg... Sudane Erato: ah, i think we don't know yet Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew... 'Ulrika Zugzwang be coerced'...lol Sudane Erato: : ) Sudane Erato: this baby business : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww the poor future mother... Sudane Erato: she hasn't been around for days Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I still think we should simply copy & paste everything. Sudane Erato: but will the new land be an EXACT copy? Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's the easiest way to make a swift move! Roberta Dalek: do we want an exact copy? Sudane Erato: if not, then adjustments will need to be made Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Perhaps not... but I still think if will help us to move quickly Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can always change later... Sudane Erato: well, I can certainly agree with that, if it works Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apparently, yes. However, I now know why I couldn't contact Haney, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, he left LL... Sudane Erato: oh! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven't read who's replacing him. Sudane Erato: bad time, with the new version coming Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm Sudane Erato: any idea when the new version will hit? Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm they'll be very, very careful this time Sudane Erato: 2 months? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say, earlier Gwyneth Llewelyn: But at the very least, 2 weeks : ) Sudane Erato: good, in time for a move? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But people uncovered lots of bugs so far... Sudane Erato: yes, they have Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Good point. Hmm, yes, I guess so Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm, in the mean time, I've been reading the first bill. Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have pending things from the last meeting... Roberta Dalek: shall we start then? It doesn't look like anyone else is coming Sudane Erato: OK Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let's start Roberta Dalek: was there a meeting last week? Gwyneth Llewelyn: No : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: My fault, really, I didn't manage to send an email... Gwyneth Llewelyn: It seems that the in-world IMs are never enough. Roberta Dalek: people don't get group IMs if they are offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I expect Talen to come over later... he never manages to be awake so early, lol Sudane Erato: that's odd, cause many folks are very lax with emails Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah is that so, Roberta? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes sense : ( Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have a folder with the calling cards of all members... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Hmm Sudane Erato: : ) now called friends : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes : ) Roberta Dalek: ok - lets start Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, let's see what we have pending from the last meeting? Sudane Erato: old business ? Roberta Dalek: Gywn - what business do we have left over from last wek? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we have Roberta chair again? I vote on that, she's so good at keeping order, lol Sudane Erato: she was VERY good! Roberta Dalek: ok - i'll be the ordermeisterin Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol : ) Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we have the renting business... Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a report from the team who did the evaluation : ( Sudane Erato: sorry, didn't bring it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps you could talk a bit about your conclusions... (just for the record) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh let me see... Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane... you send me that as a notecard, or as an email? Sudane Erato: ? Roberta Dalek: its on the forums Sudane Erato: i know I posted it Roberta Dalek: shall I copy and paste Sudane Erato: but it was an email, cause it had a jpg Gwyneth Llewelyn: forum, ok Sudane Erato: kind of needs the jpg to make sense Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well Sudane Erato: altho there were a number of subsatntial conclusions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, if I recall it correctly, we need to rebuild things a lot. Roberta Dalek gave you nberg rentals. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes. Sudane Erato: arrived at mostly by Roberta's judgement Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah ty ! Norm Drago is offline Sudane Erato: which make very good sense to me SL Exchange Magic Box white: SL Exchange - Delivered item Magic Ring 1.9c. Sudane Erato: graet ! ty Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, only 8 places 'fit' for rental - that's too low. Sudane Erato: now talen has volunteered to fix things Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the others only need 'snow removal' Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, excellent! Sudane Erato: but he has relied on objects from Ulrika Roberta Dalek: nothing seems to have happened - i had a look earlier Sudane Erato: and she is MIA Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, wait wait Sudane Erato: yes, nothing has happened Roberta Dalek gave you residential working. Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a 'box' inthe Marktplatz where you can get the textures Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: did I put it there???? Roberta Dalek: well she made the prefab houses - but she has a more advanced one she wants to sell Gwyneth Llewelyn: and talen, as officer, can remove snow, etc Sudane Erato: don't think so Roberta Dalek: so he is trying to get a copy/mod version off ulrika of the primitive one Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww I see Sudane Erato: but he found he couldn't do something or other Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Talen has Ulrika's email Sudane Erato: so he's done nothing so far Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww, dang Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's really too bad! Roberta Dalek: he can't move them - but i think he should be able to delete them Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I'd be happy o 'remove snow' Gwyneth Llewelyn: to Sudane Erato: not so easy Roberta Dalek: removing snow is different Roberta Dalek: thats terraforming Gwyneth Llewelyn: this would mean an adequate amount of places to rent... not so easy? Sudane Erato: the land has to be pushed down Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And can't talen do that? Roberta Dalek: he can as an officer i presume Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Roberta Dalek: the problem is that the hosues were just plonked down - some overlap, some are not accessible, the land was not prepared... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, since the land is group owned, the officers should be able to do terraforming Roberta Dalek: the prefab is also poor quality tbh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. So -not easy- but not really -impossible- Roberta Dalek: and they are very small Sudane Erato: right, it looks like the houses must be removed to smooth the land Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on that, Roberta, but the point is, how much time will that take?? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Weeks? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even assuming we could enlisten our overeager builder Eugene to help Talen... Sudane Erato: : ) Roberta Dalek: I don't know - but we wouldn't really get any customers as they stand Sudane Erato: Talen had said "very quickly" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. That's something we could all agree on : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Roberta Dalek: the houses are 9x9.5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love Talen, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you mean, they're too small, Roberta? Roberta Dalek: I'm not even sure they are functional Roberta Dalek: often a bed can be 3 x 3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks* Roberta Dalek: but they are what we have at the moment Gwyneth Llewelyn scratches head Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm... plan B... Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they're too small for homes, are they big enough for shops? Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think? Sudane Erato: another Roberta question Roberta Dalek: they are small - but maybe for shops Roberta Dalek: maybe with a 25 prim limit or something - the smallest type of shop Sudane Erato: I will point out that Charlotte Gillespie has squatted rather happily in one Roberta Dalek: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I remember Ulrika telling that you couldn't have more than 25 prims per building anyway... Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, true, true Roberta Dalek: nobody would rent a house with 25 prims Gwyneth Llewelyn: She has moved on, Sudane, and anyway, Charlotte is a character : ) Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Roberta... : ( Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: This still would mean getting rid at least of the snow. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because just 8 shops, that's really not enough! Roberta Dalek: they have been designed for beauty not for function Gwyneth Llewelyn: sigh Sudane Erato: I suspect that if we get into this kind of fundamental problem about house rental... Roberta Dalek: but when we move we will have more space! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Will that mean, completely redesign everything? oh my... Sudane Erato: that we should prepare a whole new rent concept Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no other option besides agreeing with you, Sudane : ( Sudane Erato: the old idea was based on flawed concepts perhaps Sudane Erato: so we need a new one Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unfortunately true : ( Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think people NEVER really thought about renting stuff Sudane Erato: oh yes? Roberta Dalek: I'm not sure thought was given to making the city functional Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps it was Gwyneth Llewelyn: but things were finished in a 'quick and dirty' way Sudane Erato: it was meant as a tourist attraction Sudane Erato: where looks were very important Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what do you suggest then? We should simply drop the whole renting concept? Sudane Erato: can we suggest that shops around the main square go ahead Sudane Erato: ? Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: 'yes' on dropping renting altogether, or 'yes' for shops only on the main square? Roberta Dalek: yes for shops in the main square going ahead Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, i agree... let me recheck your notes and the map... Sudane Erato: that would at least get things started Sudane Erato: primary problems there are snow Sudane Erato: and one floor missing Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 shops operationl right now Roberta Dalek: and that talen's priority should be fixing the shops Sudane Erato: : ): ) and one shop with no door Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest is just a floor (easy) and snow (slightly more complicated) Gwyneth Llewelyn: door is easy Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Roberta Dalek: who is renting the shops? Roberta Dalek: I presume no-one is actually paying... Sudane Erato: I proposed that rent be imposed Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no, the shops are not being used Sudane Erato: well, Ulrika is using one Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, even Ulrika's is mostly 'decoration' Sudane Erato: and a handbag dealer another _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:16 RA Meeting on 06 March 2005 - Part 2 of 4 Roberta Dalek: two are - ulrika has one, and one of her friends has naother Roberta Dalek: I have a rento cube - we need to work out how many prims we can allow and then set a market rent Roberta Dalek: I can do that - with sudane? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 25 is a good start Sudane Erato: good! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree! Sudane Erato: I'm game Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... two things: Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Get talen and the Guild overall to fix the shops Roberta Dalek: do we require use of the vendor - if we do then we can't really charge rent as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah... Gwyneth Llewelyn: well... Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Sudane Erato: what are the issues there? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean... we need to charge for taxes, lol Roberta Dalek: the vendor takes taxes on sales Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats, we NEED to have a functional Guild! Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: These are all Guild issues. Roberta Dalek: the vendor is something like 8 prims Roberta Dalek: so we are looking at 3 vendors per shop Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm not much, really Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... since we aren't using the rest of the prims for renting... Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can raise the prim limit Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the other hand Sudane Erato: could you explain how the venders and possible rent interact? Roberta Dalek: but it may not be possible to fit many vendors in the shops Gwyneth Llewelyn: the shops are too small to have, say 10 or 20 prims Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Roberta Dalek: as they are prety latge Roberta Dalek: I couldn't find a new vendor to play with Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I mean 10 to 20 VENDORS, not prims Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the best solution so far is the Gigas SecondServer system Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's free, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only question is how to arrange it in order to pay taxes Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm really silly... uh, our vendor works Gwyneth Llewelyn: You just need to get the scripts which interact with the web site Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no need for other vendors Roberta Dalek: they have a script that can be added for stock purposes Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, no need for other vendors SCRIPTS. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you can change the scripts and make a one-prim version Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, eventually a 3 prim version Roberta Dalek: I would really like a copy of the vendor to look at Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for back and forward buttons) Sudane Erato: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol Roberta Dalek: but talen or one of the scripters could modify Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could even do a one-prim version which shows a dialog box for 'next', 'prev', etc Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or ask Lance to do one for us,. Gwyneth Llewelyn: based on the current model Roberta Dalek: but smaller, and less prim heavy Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway, technology aside... Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is not how many prims the vendor has Sudane Erato: Can we charge rent AND sales tax? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But how we set the 'rules' for renting. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that's a good question, Sudane, and I have a suggestion to make Roberta Dalek: I don't think we can do both - or if we do we need to charge a very small rent Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd suggest the following... Gwyneth Llewelyn: We keep the sales tax Gwyneth Llewelyn: And rent the shops for, say, L$100 a week (we can discuss the price further) Gwyneth Llewelyn: So... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Taxes are 'deducted' from rent. Meaning... Sudane Erato: whew! Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you sell L$1000 per week in items, you won't need to pay rent! (sales tax is currently 10% I think) Sudane Erato: will one script handle this? Gwyneth Llewelyn: HM. Good question. Sudane Erato: there's an interaction between rent amount and sales amount Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the best you can see is if someone has paid MORE than L$ 100 in taxes one week Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, actually, in my country, there is a similar idea for our RL taxes... Gwyneth Llewelyn: You pay them in advance, three times per year : ) Sudane Erato: : ) Sudane Erato: called estimated tax Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can have more deductions than the amount you have paid, the State pays you back the difference : ) Sudane Erato: ah yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really 'estimated tax', that's what you ALSO have... Sudane Erato: and the State makes money on the float! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: You bet! Sudane Erato: very sly Gwyneth Llewelyn: They pay you back after, say, 2 years or so Roberta Dalek: ok... Sudane Erato: 2 years! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in Neualtenburg, this would be somewhat similar... Roberta Dalek: ordermeisterin calling to order Gwyneth Llewelyn: you pay 'advance tax' every week Sudane Erato: I have a proposal Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Roberta : ) Roberta Dalek: Sudane Sudane Erato: that we engage in a trial period before the move Sudane Erato: that occupancy arrangement be strictly limited until then Sudane Erato: and that it be discovered what the actual traffic is Sudane Erato: or, what venders can actually sell Sudane Erato: this would be a "market" basis for charges Roberta Dalek: ok agreed Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Sudane Erato: with, hopefully a bargain for the experimenters Sudane Erato: but, clear transition to new deals after the move Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on that 'trial' phase, they wouldn't pay either taxes or renting? Sudane Erato: no, i think they should pay taxes Roberta Dalek: I think just taxes Sudane Erato: its the lowest risk Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. And renting for free Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fully agree : ) Sudane Erato: because its based on volume Roberta Dalek: yes Roberta Dalek: and we don't know what the traffic will be like Sudane Erato: right Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's say, 1 month free trial? Sudane Erato: until the move Roberta Dalek: we will also be able to see if the vendors work Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Roberta Dalek: I agree sudane - and will help implement Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that proposal! Roberta Dalek: although I have have a conflict of interest as I wopuld like to rent one Sudane Erato: regarding sales, I am totally ignorant Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol Sudane Erato: LOL Sudane Erato: i think that is great Sudane Erato: we'll have inside info Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. restriction on sales, they can sell anything, so long as it's PG, right? Sudane Erato: AND traffic already Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: yes, unfortunately Sudane Erato: i think the PG is a big burden for us Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, not really 'unfortunately' : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah well Sudane Erato: do we need something written? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what is the next step? Asking for a copy of the script? Roberta Dalek: okay so the steps - 1. talen and the guild need to make the places rentable Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have something written, yes... Roberta Dalek: 2. we need as a minimum copies of the vendors Roberta Dalek: but really the scripts as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Sudane Erato: I volunteer to read this transcript and make a written resolution Roberta Dalek: currently we have neither Sudane Erato: as you can see, I spew those out rather readily Roberta Dalek: Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Erato: while we wait for the renovations, can these venders be ready? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, this work can be in parallel Sudane Erato: great Gwyneth Llewelyn: I presume that we will give the current vendor away... Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: I have been talking a good deal with Catfart.. Roberta Dalek: great Sudane Erato: I'll try to get him moving re the Guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a 'special' version with just one prim, that anyone can incorporate into a new vendor. That should be easy Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sounds great, Sudane! Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what was our pending unfinished business from the last meeting...? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, the Casino... Roberta Dalek: casino looks great Sudane Erato: Can we pass this shop thing pending an acceptable written version? Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye Roberta Dalek: we need to get moving Sudane Erato: aye Sudane Erato: casino Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Casino is ok., Now we need the game machines. Roberta Dalek: shop motion passed Roberta Dalek: and the casino alt Gwyneth Llewelyn: I talked to Eggy, he's unwilling to 'give' us his machines Sudane Erato: I have proposed in the money bill mechanisms to start the casino Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Sudane Erato: Talen has agreed to be the first casino alt Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Sudane Erato: and to contribute machines Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Sudane Erato: and we can buy more machines as needed Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: No! Roberta Dalek: and talen knows which machines are worth having Sudane Erato: there should be enough $$ to fund the startup Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don't control the treasury : ( Sudane Erato: Catfart and I have consulted closely about this money bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I want to hear that. Sudane Erato: i think if passed it is constitutional Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol Sudane Erato: since I don't understand that aspect anyway Kai Nyak is offline Ky Callahan is online Sudane Erato: but I do understand the bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the problem is, with ulrika 'off', we haven't a working Scientific Council Gwyneth Llewelyn: who should ratify our decisions Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I have an idea, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's pretty easy.... Sudane Erato: when she returns, she can throw it out, if she wants Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's pass a bill that the SC needs to disapprove (veto) in a week after the resolution has been voted upon. Sudane Erato: hehe Roberta Dalek: so we don't get stagnation Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: have you been able to look at the details? Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, the same applies to the Guild veto as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: erm, and no, Sudane, I just remember some details from our conversations in-world Sudane Erato: well, I propose a finance committee Sudane Erato: 3 RA members Sudane Erato: guildmesiter Sudane Erato: and another Guild member Sudane Erato: 5 altogether Sudane Erato: 3 of the members would start alts Sudane Erato: for the three basic $$ functions I think we need to start Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, all that I remember Sudane Erato: and I proposed the names of all but the 2nd Guyild member Sudane Erato: all have agreed to serve Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Sudane Erato: I also advised limited out and out gifts Sudane Erato: thats the quick of it Sudane Erato: that clear reporting is of the essence Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, certainly Sudane Erato: I did not take into account a suggestion that Roberta just made Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one question... will all 5 members have access to any of the three alts? Sudane Erato: which is that the CC on an alt can be changed to another RL person Sudane Erato: yes all 5 have all PWs Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that's not a problem, I mean, the CC... Sudane Erato: thats the core responsibility Roberta Dalek: so if a person leaves we have continuity Sudane Erato: well , i feel that all RA members should be reappointed after each election Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, I usually set up lots of people with a randomly generated CC number (a service available in my country, lol) and then they can change that back to their own CC number when they want... Sudane Erato: you'll have to explain that to me.. Sudane Erato: never heard of that Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point is, you can easily change the CC number later... Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol, well, Internet shopping never caught up in Portugal because people were too afraid of their CC numbers getting 'caught' Roberta Dalek: but it would get charged wouldn't it? Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they invented a system where the banking authority around here can, via a web site they own, generate random CC numbers, accepted in the whole Visa network. You set up a money limit yourself, say, just 10 US$, which is enough for starting an account Gwyneth Llewelyn: and they have just 1 usage Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way, there is no way you can do frauds with CC numbers : ) Roberta Dalek: great idea _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:17 RA Meeting on 06 March 2005 - Part 3 of 4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, it's awesome, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also means that theoretically anyone could create an infinite number of alt accounts, lol Sudane Erato: well, I suggest, based on this ... Sudane Erato: that the bill be changed slightly regarding the transfer of alts Sudane Erato: that the transfer happen only as a CC change Gwyneth Llewelyn: We only need basic accounts, so it's no problem for me to create three new ones... Sudane Erato: rather than as a new alt Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, precisely Sudane Erato: but, I don't understand fully Sudane Erato: each of those random craeted numbers has a RL person behind it, no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's an 'investment' of just 24 Euros, I think I can afford that easily : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. Yes, for the purposes of fraud detection - if Visa wants to investigate, the banking authority will be able to tell the name of the person behind the virtual CC numbers easily. Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, in terms of LL, they're different CC numbers! Sudane Erato: Yes, but also in terms of SL.. Sudane Erato: Someone MUST assume responsiblity for the CC alt Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure. Sudane Erato: there must be a RL person taking $$ responsibility Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would rather prefer that the three people contributing an alt would be someone taking the responsability using their RL persona Sudane Erato: persona is not important, just the responsibility Sudane Erato: which is why the concern about transfer Gwyneth Llewelyn: But i just mentioned that because you can CHANGE the CC number every time the alt 'switches hands' Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem about 'transferring'... the new RA member who 'inherits' the alt just goes into the backoffice at secondlife.com/accounts and changes the CC details to reflect their own Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, that's very easily done! Sudane Erato: yes, thats what I thought Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the card numbers there aren't displayed fully, there is also no risk in 'capturing' credit card numbers : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's pretty safe, I think Sudane Erato: any other problems with the bill? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not in general, Sudane. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps the issue is: how much 'starting money' should be in the accounts? Sudane Erato: that we can work out. Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the casino account has been pretty well defined by Talen Roberta Dalek: in principal this is all fine Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say, at the very least, L$ 20,000 plus L$ 10,000 for buying the machines. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes? let's hear talen's proposal! Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the general account is determined by the new sim purchase Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I thought we were just discussing the Casino! Sudane Erato: Talen says the same, altho less for the machines Sudane Erato: good point. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok, let's be clear on that... Sudane Erato: are we discussing the casino...? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the Casino, or also for the New Neualtenburg? Sudane Erato: or the money bill? Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the bill aren't we? Roberta Dalek: at least I thought we were Sudane Erato: the money bill wasn't intended to propose the amounts needed for each account Sudane Erato: just the structure of finances Roberta Dalek: Do we have agreement on the money bill? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just re-checkec the post in the forums... Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I do agree Roberta Dalek: I agree Sudane Erato: well, subject to change in the language of the transfer, I agree Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, subject to that slight change. Roberta Dalek: great - passed! Sudane Erato: I'll get together with Cat soon Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, we have a Finance Committee! Roberta Dalek: does the casino need any more from us or can it just go now? Sudane Erato: he will have the rental account : his alt Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: should we transfer part of the funds from the Uma Bauhaus alt to the Casino? Sudane Erato: no... Roberta Dalek: do we have any funds in uma? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or start from scratch? Sudane Erato: I think they should go to the general account... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we should have a few thousand L$.... Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: for good practice Roberta Dalek: agreed Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So, the question remains... will the 5 Finance Committee members agree upon a figure to start the Casino? (which is the urgent discussion right now) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And discussion point #2, new sim, but let's finish the Casino for now... Sudane Erato: OK Roberta Dalek: well the finance committee isn't all here Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm... brb, just 1 min Sudane Erato: we can suggest 30K for the casino Sudane Erato: right, Gwyneth Llewelyn: back! Sudane Erato: : ) Roberta Dalek: wb Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what is your feeling on that, Sudane, will they 'accept' to finance the treasury in equal parts? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you expect some further contributions? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA ask for those contributions? Sudane Erato: The accounts will not be funded equally, but by need Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh. Sudane Erato: yes, I think we should ask for contributions Sudane Erato: because more smaller ones, rather than a few big ones Sudane Erato: are better Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, is there any expected 'return', you know, like when the State issues bonds or so? Sudane Erato: but the finance committee can ultimately appeal if mor e cash is nneded Gwyneth Llewelyn: Appeal... to whom? Gwyneth Llewelyn: To the citizens? Sudane Erato: YES, that must be discussed... Sudane Erato: but not necessarily now Sudane Erato: yes, to the citizens Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... hmm... I have an idea, to be discussed with catfart, who is an awesome programmer... Sudane Erato: we will need multiple funding sources.. but not everyone is needed, of course Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, it's a special vendor which issues 'bonds', say, for L$1000 apiece Sudane Erato: but all the contributions must be loans Sudane Erato: bonds Gwyneth Llewelyn: The money goes straight into one of the three alt accounts Sudane Erato: good Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bonds are 'unique' objects, but you can transfer them. Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is rather easy to do! Sudane Erato: is the source recorded? Sudane Erato: the owner? Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, if you wish, it could record that... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty easy to do! Sudane Erato: in this case, we must record it somehow Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, Jacqueline will drool over that idea Sudane Erato: ? Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, you know, she loves that kind of stuff... Gwyneth Llewelyn: She's always thinking of ways to replicate RL stuff inside SL. Sudane Erato: I know little about what we can do with money accounting in SL Sudane Erato: except that it is primitive in the extreme Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it makes some sense... because that way, people will be able to know exactly how you have participated in funding Neualtenburg Sudane Erato: so that record keeping is of the highest priority Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since bonds are transferrable, they have market value Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah : ) Sudane Erato: the funds are loans, and must be repaid Gwyneth Llewelyn: that opens up very interesting ideas Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the idea! Roberta Dalek: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I definitely propose that all 'loans' to Neualtenburg are doing by issuing bonds through a vendor. Bonds are scripted to know who are the current owners Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can set it up at the Marktplatz Sudane Erato: how fast? Sudane Erato: I'd like to get Talen working that casino fast Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if Catfart has some time, this won't take longer than one hour of a very competent programmer Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, again, this is basic stuff, but I also agree that the money can come in first, and we can send the bonds later... Sudane Erato: OK great Gwyneth Llewelyn: and set up the 'bond vendor' just after the Casino is completed Sudane Erato: we can assign them as bonds manually Sudane Erato: good Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, at the beginning! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I imagine we'll be paying interest on those bonds in the future, heh heh Sudane Erato: that we must discuss Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not today. Sudane Erato: even 0 interest bonds are valid Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Of course, I meant that for starters! Sudane Erato: but, less valid Sudane Erato: so, we are agreed Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, I agree fully, lol Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love it! Gwyneth Llewelyn: : ) Sudane Erato: 30 minutes Roberta Dalek: yep Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything else pending...? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we move to the new bills? Roberta Dalek: the new home bill? Sudane Erato: regarding the new neualt Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Sudane Erato: the primary issue is the ownership issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, since 'layout' can be defined later. Sudane Erato: my money plan handles that Sudane Erato: but it is aa kludge Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree. Sudane Erato: very ackward Roberta Dalek: well the owner is the alt Roberta Dalek: so it shouldn't change Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed. Sudane Erato: yes, your cc proposal makes it much more feasible Sudane Erato: so that the RL person simply rotates Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, well, that's just a slight change in the wording... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! Sudane Erato: behind the alt Sudane Erato: We must name the ALT! Sudane Erato: The owner! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol Sudane Erato: God Gwyneth Llewelyn: the surname is never fixed... Gwyneth Llewelyn: God, hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wilhelm IV Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Erato: unto whom all things ... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kaiser? Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: 'God' sounds a bit, uh, you know... Roberta Dalek: yeah Sudane Erato: remember, we may want to broaden the German theme Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Right. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Master? Roberta Dalek: well it depends which sirnames are available Gwyneth Llewelyn: FinanceMaster? Sudane Erato: no, i pass on God : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Treasurer? Roberta Dalek: is Leader still available, for example Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Leader is not bad... Sudane Erato: it sounds like a cult : ( Roberta Dalek: I think we can trust whoever sets up the alts to be sensible Sudane Erato: ok Sudane Erato: AND WE CAN ALWAYS SWITCH ALTS, if needed Roberta Dalek: no religeous or national/monarchy refs Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I agree, Roberta... Sudane Erato: is that bill approvable? Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: The leader surname is currently available Roberta Dalek: I approve Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. I wonder about item #5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning, hmm, how long will it take for us to get L$ 200,000 or so... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we have the 'time limit' Sudane Erato: Gwyn, thats the core question of Neualt Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes! Sudane Erato: we will need to buy before we have the funds from revenues Roberta Dalek: yes Sudane Erato: there will need to be more bonds Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let's go on a 'double or nothing' risk-taking gamble... yes, I agree with the bill, just changing slightly the wording to allow for easy rotation of the alts Sudane Erato: and therefore, some will clearly take a risk Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed they will Sudane Erato: the alt rotation is defined in the money bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why I agree Sudane Erato: there is a necessary linkage Sudane Erato: oh, i see Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was just meant to clarify the issue in the records, lol Sudane Erato: good Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it's an aye from me as well. Sudane Erato: aye Roberta Dalek: aye Roberta Dalek: passed Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, I disagree with the 'coercing' part Sudane Erato: : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's just an itty bit detail. Sudane Erato: we can remove it Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ulrika may really be unable to propose a design... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, at least replace the word with 'kindly ask' Sudane Erato: I would guess she would very much like to be included Sudane Erato: which is why the forceful languauge Gwyneth Llewelyn: and make the change to New Neualtenburg without the need of a plan, since at the very least, we can do a copy&paste of Anzere Sudane Erato: OK, i defer on that Sudane Erato: since I know less about how that will be done Selador Cellardoor is offline _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	03-24-2005 23:18 RA Meeting on 06 March 2005 - Part 4 of 4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, yes, she WANTS to be a part of it, and I really am in favour of keeping her name there... just not make it all depend on her plan Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: so we will revise the wording of that bill too Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, perhaps just renaming that from 'coerce' to 'ask' Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: or 'the RA will appoint...' Gwyneth Llewelyn: also means if Ulrika can't do it, she can delegate to someone else Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or if she doesnt even do that, we'll do that instead, but ulrika will be noticed. Sudane Erato: good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning... if she really, really can't, she'll have a 'last word' on everything, if we need to give the task to somebody else. Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, wonderful! Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, that WAS productive, we still have 15 minutes left Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we, for the record, gladly embrace Catfart as Acting Guildmeister, and give a loud hooray? : ) lol Roberta Dalek: ok Sudane Erato: Agreed! Roberta Dalek: and then shall we finish early? Sudane Erato: : ) Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, we need to do the same for the Scientific Council... Sudane Erato: ? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, have an Acting Professor for that Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Dean Sudane Erato: who is the council now? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Ulrika has that position, and we have a non-working council Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think both you and I are on the Council, Sudane... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Kathy yamamoto if I remember correctly! Sudane Erato: I'm not aware of that Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this means asking Kathy... Gwyneth Llewelyn: No? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Didn't you apply? Sudane Erato: arent RA and Council membership exclusive? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well wait Sudane Erato: I did, but... Gwyneth Llewelyn: 'exclusive' as in 'not being able to vote on both simultaneously' Sudane Erato: things took a different course : ) Sudane Erato: no.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, same here, lol Sudane Erato: not being members of both Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, so the SC is just Ulrika, Kathy and myself? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: so, you are the question : ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh well, either I'm here in the RA, or in the SC Sudane Erato: : ) Sudane Erato: anyway, we should adjourn Roberta Dalek: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the best I can do is to do a post on the forums about the Acting Leadership of the SC, and that's all. Roberta Dalek: thank you all for coming Sudane Erato: yw Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks a lot everybody Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	04-24-2005 23:02 RA Meeting on 24 April 2005 - Part 1 of 2 Sudane Erato: well, about land.... Sudane Erato: you got my email... Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes! Sudane Erato: we need to know which steps to take, and the implications Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: It might be worthwhile to start a thread in the forums. Sudane Erato: Eloise suggested some residents who might be able to help Ulrika Zugzwang: Something that states what we're trying to do and asks private sim owners for advice. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: people who own private islands who have formed groups Sudane Erato: Faircahng? Sudane Erato: Chang Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Sudane Erato: Blaze Spinnaker? Sudane Erato: Even, possibly developing some intelligence on Anshe's islands Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Blaze! Ulrika Zugzwang: He'd be perfect. Ulrika Zugzwang: Want me to IM him? Sudane Erato: sure Ulrika Zugzwang: We know each other very well from the forums. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll do that now, while we talk. Sudane Erato: but let me know if you want him here Sudane Erato: cause Rudeen has to let him in Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: also, Flipper ? Sudane Erato: he bought an island and gave it to a group? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. FlipperPA Peregrine. Ulrika Zugzwang: He owns SLBoutique. Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a group discount there. Sudane Erato: I don't know any of these people Ulrika Zugzwang: I get along very well with him too. Sudane Erato: can you talk to them? Ulrika Zugzwang: I also have exchanged emails with him so I can contact him diredctly. Sudane Erato: we need a stated list of land goals.. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. I'll send him an email. Sudane Erato: exactly what we need the permissions to do Ulrika Zugzwang: Did you want me to touch the recorder? Sudane Erato: ah, yes Ulrika Zugzwang: I never did taht. Ulrika Zugzwang has indicated consent to be recorded. Sudane Erato: np Ulrika Zugzwang: Got it. Sudane Erato: only the littel sisters are not being recorded Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Ulrika Zugzwang: Good then I can say anything. Sudane Erato: :) Uma Bauhaus: I like turnips! Ulrika Zugzwang: :) Sudane Erato: lol Rudeen Edo: and I... god knows Ulrika Zugzwang: It sounds like we need to make the land similar to anzere where the group had build permissions. Sudane Erato: yes. but... Ulrika Zugzwang: From there we need to create subgroups(?) that allow others to have private parcels of land. Sudane Erato: this is a PI, so even that will be different Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: that's the biggie Sudane Erato: private parcels Sudane Erato: we need to find out what priviledges can be transferred to the "owners" Sudane Erato: it's really important to make the deal attractive Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: to establish "value" for the parcels Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: thats why this investigation is so important Ulrika Zugzwang: We're also way over on prims for this tiny center build. Ulrika Zugzwang: Mostly because of the church. Sudane Erato: but... isn't it all part of the island amount now? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: But to make a good offer to the land owners, we're going to have to make sure that they get a certain amount of prims. Sudane Erato: ah, yes.. Ulrika Zugzwang: RIght now they'll be under what a normal sim would give because of our center. Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a small correction we'll have to make. Sudane Erato: so quickly we will need a system of prim administration Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes! Ulrika Zugzwang: Then we can implement that in the city center as well to keep people limited on the community builds too. Sudane Erato: we should start by defining the lots, no? Ulrika Zugzwang: So, I'd like to see some sort of group permissions restored so I can get to work cleaning up the city center and putting in the new and improved fachwerks that I built. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: The lots should be defined. Ulrika Zugzwang: I have a map of anzere. so next week, I'll chop it up into a bunch of 512, 1024, 2048, ... sections. Sudane Erato: if I can define the lots... Sudane Erato: and then set the permissions according to an agreed plan... Sudane Erato: we should be going Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: I want to make lots that are not rectangular though and have open space surrounding some of the larger ones for trees. Sudane Erato: none of that, however, deals with the group/island issue Sudane Erato: great!! Sudane Erato: yes, Sudane Erato: lets share a marked up map Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll also make roads so, if we grow we'll already have the connecting spots defined. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: well, paths at least:) Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll make a hand map with a grid that shows 16 x 16 m^2 squares for the divisions. Ulrika Zugzwang: I already sort of have one but I'll beef it up. Ulrika Zugzwang: Then we can mark on it and email it back and forth. Sudane Erato: what tool shall we use Ulrika Zugzwang: As investors we should have our pick of the best lots. :D Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, any graphics editing program will work. Sudane Erato: you have my note about the bit I marked.. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll just save it in PNG format. Sudane Erato: what reads PNG? Ulrika Zugzwang: Photoshop, gimp, etc. Sudane Erato: I have Paintshop Pro, but not very good at it Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: PSP will do it too. Ulrika Zugzwang: You'll only need to circle things to take make notes. Maybe add text. No biggie. Sudane Erato: then assume i will use PSP Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll take the input and clean it up. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure! Sudane Erato: OK, good Sudane Erato: lines for lots Sudane Erato: and mark the bit you want me to set for you Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: here's Gwyn! Ulrika Zugzwang: I was actually thinking of taking a chunk of land within the city walls. Sudane Erato: ahh, good Sudane Erato: don;t want those girls asleep Sudane Erato: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Yes. :D Ulrika Zugzwang: I thought taking a chunk in the city would open up more sellable space outside and allow me to finish some structures. Sudane Erato: makes sense to me Ulrika Zugzwang: If they are my home, I'd be more motivated to work on them. Sudane Erato: i think that city RE will have more commericial value than residential value Sudane Erato: to others Ulrika Zugzwang: As a place to sell things? Sudane Erato: yes Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: so there will be space available for residential use Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. yes. I understand now. Ulrika Zugzwang: I agree with you. Ulrika Zugzwang: So just to reiterate, I will do: Ulrika Zugzwang: -contact blaze and flipper for inside information. Ulrika Zugzwang: -draw up the first cut of the zoning map. Ulrika Zugzwang: -finish up the web page. Ulrika Zugzwang: Is there anything else? Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello Gwyn! Sudane Erato: Hi! Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please touch the recorder over there to assent to being recorded Sudane Erato: its a beta chat recorder Ulrika Zugzwang: She's a zombie! Ulrika Zugzwang: Cover your heads! Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Sudane Erato: oh dear Sudane Erato: she came in twice already Sudane Erato: ? Sudane Erato: she's back Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, well... I'm not only late, but "unstable". Great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi everybody :) Sudane Erato: welcome to the instability club Ulrika Zugzwang: We're having problems with sitting too. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I see! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I really do apologise for being so late :( :( Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha! Ulrika Zugzwang: DId you see the wink animation!!? Ulrika Zugzwang: I've never seen that before. :D Sudane Erato: Gwyn, touch the chat recorder over there Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes .... Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded. Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go! Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Priceless. Sudane Erato: thats the beta that Eloise made Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah right... let's hope it works :) Sudane Erato: we'll record both ways, just to be sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, have you been lucky catching the Lindens? Since they're "on the move", I've been unable to get a "knowledgeable" Linden for the past 2 or 3 days... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just get the Lindens on teleworking... Sudane Erato: well, they've been moving Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they understand as much about the Estate tools as I do :) ... meaning, "zilch" :) Sudane Erato: we talked about talking with others who have a similiar experience to ours Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me get cards from your alts... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like talen morgan, for instance...? Sudane Erato: no.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Uma lol Sudane Erato: Eloise suggested people who have private sims but who have deeded them to groups Ulrika Zugzwang: FlipperPA and blaze Spinnaker were mentioned. Sudane Erato: Ulrika knows them Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: I have Flippers email and will send him a message. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Flip is cool :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll PM blaze since we're forum monkeys. :D Ulrika Zugzwang: He is! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point :) Sudane Erato: we also discussed developing the lots... Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok... Sudane Erato: and then setting build permissions of the lots Sudane Erato: so that at least build work can get done by group members Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a starting point, yes. Sudane Erato: the big questions tho, are the land permissions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn't like the "implications" that you can set things to be "irreversible"... so, any mistake, means catastrophe! That's terrible. Uma Bauhaus: redrum. redrum. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: well, i think you're right that we could "sell" back to the owner, and start all over again Ulrika Zugzwang: Want to experiment with a deeding a chunk of land to the group and seeing what happens? Sudane Erato: so we may have to be experimental about this Ulrika Zugzwang: Jinx. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, right... Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: but, what are we going to test? Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, you can create a parcel outside the city, Sudane... Ulrika Zugzwang: We could take an object like the fachwerk that we want to remain closed and then place it on a parcel of empty land. Sudane Erato: thus my note regarding our specific goals Ulrika Zugzwang: We can then deed it to group and see what happens. Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Sudane Erato: the object, or the land Ulrika Zugzwang: Just the land. Ulrika Zugzwang: For starters. Ulrika Zugzwang: (With the fachwerk above it.) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... since 1.6, when you sell the land, you get the objects as well, so you do a 2-in-1 test anyway. Ulrika Zugzwang: That sounds groovy. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: Rudeen just crashed Gwyneth Llewelyn: yikes... Sudane Erato: I need to check the land permissions Sudane Erato: because I think they are on the estate menu Ulrika Zugzwang: I hate to be a party pooper, I have to get packed up for our Muir Woods trip. We want to be on the Golden Gate bridge by 12:00 to see the Boat Parade in the Bay. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah? Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Ulrika, if I were here on time, we'd had time for that :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I have my sister in town with my niece. We're doing the tourist thing until tomorrow. :D Sudane Erato: no guilt now! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I still can be used as a "tester" for Sudane, if she likes... Ulrika Zugzwang: It's OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you'll be a tourist guide, ulrika? ;) Sudane Erato: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: My family goes back tomorrow morning, so I'll be back at it then. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. I'm having a lot of fun. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: We went whale watching yesterday. Sudane Erato: neat! Ulrika Zugzwang: I got so sea sick. ugh Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that's not good.. Ulrika Zugzwang: It was OK. Sudane Erato: did you see whales? Ulrika Zugzwang: I mananged to keep breakfast down using my patent first-trimester vomit supression techniques. ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: *patented Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Deep breaths (in through nose out through mouth), positive thoughts, and no head turning. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	04-24-2005 23:03 RA Meeting on 24 April 2005 - Part 2 of 2 Ulrika Zugzwang: lol Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: We saw 8 humpback whales. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing like an expert... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow! Sudane Erato: very neat! Ulrika Zugzwang: It was amazing. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eight?! Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's awesome...! Sudane Erato: humpbacks are big, no? Ulrika Zugzwang: They were popping up all around us while feeding. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We were 6 miles offshore. Sudane Erato: the really big ones? Ulrika Zugzwang: They're huge. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That close to the land? I'm impressed... Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We even saw several flukes (flippers) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. They're migrating north from Mexico right now. Ulrika Zugzwang: Up to Alaska. Sudane Erato: ahhh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, migration season, i see... Ulrika Zugzwang: Sorry to derail the discussion. Ulrika Zugzwang: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ulrika Zugzwang: (Just like me in the forums.) Gwyneth Llewelyn: right, right :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Well I'm going to get running. I have my list of tasks: Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, if Sudane has some free time, I'll be able to help her out... Ulrika Zugzwang: -contact the priv. sim folks, Ulrika Zugzwang: -parcel up land Ulrika Zugzwang: -finish website Sudane Erato: I'm here, available Sudane Erato: sounds great, Ulrika! Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll be in contact shortly so we can have things up and running by this weekend. Sudane Erato: great... BTW, I can't be around next weekend Ulrika Zugzwang: I have all new fachwerks that I want to depoy. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK Sudane. Sudane Erato: orthodox Easter Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have tomorrow free... it's a national holiday :) Although I won't be online all the time, unfortunately I have some work to do in RL despite the holiday... Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: New fachwerk? Sounds promising! Ulrika Zugzwang: I have Friday off too. Ulrika Zugzwang: None of it lines up though. :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll be on on Friday for sure. Sudane Erato: I'll be around til Friday Ulrika Zugzwang: If we can figure out how to do the land by then I'll redo all the fachwerks. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: back on Monday Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, I best fly! Ulrika Zugzwang: I have bouncing ten year olds around me. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right... well Ulrika, don't make your sister wait... Sudane Erato: good travels! Ulrika Zugzwang: Never seen a kid so excited to see big trees before. ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe, "cannon fodder" for the Teen grid, I guess :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao! Gwyneth Llewelyn: and bye bye! Sudane Erato: bye Uma Bauhaus: redrum. Uma Bauhaus: Tschau. ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tschuess :) Sudane Erato: Rudeen computer is very slow to reboot Sudane Erato: hold on, let me check the estate menu Sudane Erato: no, all the land permissions are set by the lots Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	05-09-2005 17:11 RA Meeting on 8 May 2005 - Part 1 of 4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But "parcels" is something available since 1.6 or so Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting. Gwyneth Llewelyn: A nice side effect is that if you mark those plots for "sale", they appear on the Find Land tab! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, people look at them "as if" they were "normal land". Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting. Like Anshe does. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is, of course, WAY COOL :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah - precisely! Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's HOW she does it! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, of course, like we know how the community reacts... Sudane Erato: but, we're not selling just land, but also an idea Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Anshe is doing precisely the same as "net effect" with the difference that she's the Tyrant and there is no way to "replace" her at her sim. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the "net effect" is, people get land at a private sim. Sudane Erato: she had some problem with the Lindens about that, no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm, the discussion has been, let's say, a bit "flamey" Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But from the "community" at large. Gwyneth Llewelyn: They discussed a very interesting point.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this is "philosophy" and politics, btw) Sudane Erato: I thought she was not listed in a way she expected to be Ulrika Zugzwang: By replace you mean by voting someone out via a group election? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Linden Lab sells land in the mainland, and has a ToS that entitles you to use a parcel of land, and pay for it. This is called "a land sale". Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Others (Anshe, Neualtenburg...) sell land on a private sim, have a contract with the buyer which entitles you to certain rights, and you pay for it as well. Is this a "land sale"? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. It's a bit different than LL. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the point here is... if LL sells land under ToS, it's a "sale". If a group sells land under an agreement, it's not. Ulrika Zugzwang: We almost need people to agree to a contract before hand. Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: we do, certainly Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Ulrika - but when you buy land, you're also agree to the contract in the ToS! Ulrika Zugzwang: It's something else. A group land sale? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because LL can "take away your land" without prior notice if they wish. Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. What to call it... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was the question. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Legally, it's the SAME. Gwyneth Llewelyn: company - agreement/contract - pay monthly fee - buyer Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both models are exactly the same Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see the problem :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: no? Gwyneth Llewelyn: People argue "but we trust LL and not Anshe" :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Well LL is still the federal authority. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Sudane, what I mean is - legally, there is NO difference. Sudane Erato: right Ulrika Zugzwang: So we're injecting a layer between the palayer for the first time. Sudane Erato: yes, that I see Ulrika Zugzwang: player Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, so you can't sell anything here which violates ToS - but you can certainly add things to ToS (say, like having a saying in the democratically-elected government :) ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep. Sudane Erato: yes Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, think about a similar example... Ulrika Zugzwang: We're intermediate land contractors. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does Linden Lab "own" their infrastructure in RL? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The answer is - NO. Gwyneth Llewelyn: They colocate at Internap. Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Intermediate land sellers and governors. Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang: ? Sudane Erato: hmmm Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting. Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, if the grid fails, you're not going to internap to bother the, Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your agreement is with LL Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not with Internap Sudane Erato: I'm beginning to see Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But machines, infrastructure, etc. are from Internap :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Sudane Ulrika Zugzwang: So do our citizens have no say with LL? Sudane Erato: that's my question, what does this mean for us? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The contract you have with LL for them to "give access to a grid" which is NOT "owned" by LL, is exactly the same people will have with Neualtenburg, although LL is the "federal authority". Ulrika Zugzwang: Or do we treat the Lindens like a federal govt allowing people to go around if there are city problems which can't be resolved? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ulrika, not at all - we have to abide by ToS. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So residents COULD go to LL and complain Sudane Erato: then Ulrika is right Ulrika Zugzwang: But then we'd have to kill them. Sudane Erato: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Erm. Was that outloud? Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the contract is with the City Government, and it's as legally binding for a "sale" in Neualtenburg, as a "sale" in the mainland sims are legally binding with LL. Sudane Erato: frontier justice Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Ulrika Zugzwang: I see. Ulrika Zugzwang: It sounds like a conversation I would like. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the ISSUE here is that Robin Linden doesn't want people to call it a "land sale" Ulrika Zugzwang: I missed it in the forums. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, take a look at the forums :) :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's still going on. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We need a new name for it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, "covenant" or something Ulrika Zugzwang: I've got it! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to make everybody happy Ulrika Zugzwang: I land deed with a covenant! Ulrika Zugzwang: A land deed ... Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I'll insist on the forums and with Robin that they should get their lawyers looking very precisely on the legal terms ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: That's what we're selling. It's not land -- it's a deed to land. Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm Sudane Erato: well, I agree, its not a land sale, in the way I understand it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, being nasty - but isn't that exactly what LL is doing? ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: in New York coops, we have whats called a proprietary lease Gwyneth Llewelyn: Worse. They're "deeding land" to you, on "land" which is not LL's property, but Internap's ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Ulrika Zugzwang: YES! Ulrika Zugzwang: A proprietar lease. :D Ulrika Zugzwang: tary Sudane Erato: that might fit Ulrika Zugzwang: I caon't type today. Ulrika Zugzwang: can't Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I guess that we should be just a bit careful in "naming" stuff. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Anshe calls it "selling land" like the Lindens call it "selling land" ;) Sudane Erato: the owners hold shares in a corp, and in exchange they get to lease a space Ulrika Zugzwang: I see the complication. I'll clean up the language on the webpage. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: I agree with this. It's not a problem for me. Sudane Erato: with restrictions Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane! Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd like to learn more about that. Ulrika Zugzwang: (So much to learn.) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ulrika, personally, I totally disagree on Robin's evaluation on this ;) and I'll haunt her in the forums - VERY GENTLY, of course ;) But I think that Neualtenburg should "stay away" and be careful. Sudane Erato: :) yes indeed Ulrika Zugzwang: I see what you're saying gwyn. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: yes, I too see Ulrika Zugzwang: Are they afraid that Anshe is going to give "sellling land" a bad name? Sudane Erato: but again, what does it mean for us Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mm hmm Sudane Erato: that we should definiutely not "sell land" Ulrika Zugzwang: It seems like controll over the language to prevent damage to their own business. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds like the tactics of an oligarchy to me. ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: For us, it just means that, for the moment, we just need to announce something else than "land ownership" as the ToS (badly) defines it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, ulrika :) Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: which I think is a good thing... Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Anshe wasn't careful enough - although, again, I admit she IS right on this, and LL isn't ;) Sudane Erato: since many folks have associations with what sell land means Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because they don't read the ToS carefully - and I guess even Robin didn't, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: Understood. We should threaten their model without treading on their terminology. I can live with that. Sudane Erato: and they might not get it... our contract Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe precisely Ulrika :) Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we even have an advantage, we just say: "oh no no we're NOT 'selling land' like Anshe, it's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thingy!" Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we can explain WHY it's different ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: although it isn't, LOL Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That's what's great about us three -- we have power skills in the explaining department. Ulrika Zugzwang: lol Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Phase II is certainly going to be LOADS of fun ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes! I already have our first potential customer. Sudane Erato: so long as it gets paid for... Ulrika Zugzwang: It will slowly but surely. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, here comes our friend Eugene.... :) Sudane Erato: ahhh Ulrika Zugzwang: Eugene? Eugene Pomeray: hello :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he's just outside :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Eugene! Sudane Erato: hello! Eugene Pomeray: hello Gwyn :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdy Eugene! Eugene Pomeray: howdy Ulrika!11 Eugene Pomeray: whopps no 11s Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene the Lightbringer.... hmmm Eugene Pomeray: lol Ulrika Zugzwang: It's the ole Windlicht. Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah ok :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I animated that. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I was wondering about that! Ulrika Zugzwang: I talked to Kendra today. SHe's going to allow us to chop up the Spital (I think) for more housing. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol Eugene Pomeray: ok Sudane Erato: hehe Eugene Pomeray: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was talking about the Kirche a bit with Sudane ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: She's going to give me the groovy old textures and allow me to build an old section in the spital area. :) Sudane Erato: great Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I'll need to rally a group of church supporters saying "Don't destroy the Kirche!" or something ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: I have 4 new fachwerks done too! Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4?? Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: hehe Eugene Pomeray: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Tell me about the church! Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I know, it has too many prims :P Sudane Erato: against that "church-seller" Suadne! :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd like to keep the church. Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too! Me too! Eugene Pomeray: same here Ulrika Zugzwang: We need to thin out the prims tho. Sudane Erato: me too Gwyneth Llewelyn: argh :P Gwyneth Llewelyn: sigh Ulrika Zugzwang: Sheesh. It got way out of hand. You can keep most of the detail with half the prims. Ulrika Zugzwang: Especially the towers. They have loads of prims in the them. Sudane Erato: Ulrika, you're making a very long list for yourself :) Ulrika Zugzwang: It'll look fine thinned out a wee bit. Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, I didn't volunteer for that. Ulrika Zugzwang: lol Sudane Erato: lol Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm just saying, whoever wants to do a click->delete can do so, although we should contact BladeDancer Pendragon to see if he wants to do it. Ulrika Zugzwang: He might be over the church by now. Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me thinks of doing an historic speech on one of the oldest and loveliest monuments in the city, being "defaced" by capitalistic greed et al Ulrika Zugzwang: Poor guy has been at it for 8 months. Sudane Erato: yes, haven't seen him for a long time Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's true, I haven't seen him around... Ulrika Zugzwang: We should be careful with what we privatize. Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: We'll be cutting up the spital so we'll have tons more land shortly. Sudane Erato: ahh, capitalist greed Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I have an idea... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll contribute my plot's prims for the Church! Ulrika Zugzwang: Also Kendra is building Altenburg still on her own land. :) Sudane Erato: Ulrika, we'll have a serious problem partitioning the city Eugene Pomeray: Altenburg? Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh I can do that. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: The castle. Eugene Pomeray: ah _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	05-09-2005 17:12 RA Meeting on 8 May 2005 - Part 2 of 4 Sudane Erato: thats great! Ulrika Zugzwang: Hang on about the castle ... Sudane Erato: I've been very worried Ulrika Zugzwang: Today I'm going to nuke the fachwerks, Ulrika Zugzwang: partition the land, Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm, because some houses don't fall neatly into boundaries... Sudane Erato: OK Sudane Erato: ahh, i see Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ouch, you're getting dangerous, Ulrika!! Ulrika Zugzwang: and then put down all the new homes within the zoned areas. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow Eugene Pomeray: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, they're just my cookie cutter fachwerks. Sudane Erato: yes, of course.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bulldozer Ulrika ;) Sudane Erato: perfect Ulrika Zugzwang: The new ones are much much nicer. Eugene Pomeray: how will the new fachwerks look? Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: The look almost identical with higher quality textures and in different colors and styles. Eugene Pomeray: :D Ulrika Zugzwang: I have the textures doen, I just need to upload them and then add them to the existing structures. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Won't that take ages? I can help a bit if you like, depending on when you're doing that. I think I can still manage to move prims around... Ulrika Zugzwang: I have negotiated the entire day to work on SL. :D Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah lovely! Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh no. It'll be easy. Sudane Erato: thats really great Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm well practiced at it. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: My goal is to have the majority of the inside rebuilt and zoned today. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so that point is solved... Sudane said she was really worried about the in-city parcelling. Sudane Erato: great! Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Sudane Erato: yes, I was.. Sudane Erato: but it sounds like we've got it Ulrika Zugzwang: After that I'm going to pin Eugene down and tickle him until he passes out. Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Ulrika Zugzwang: lol Sudane Erato: hehe Eugene Pomeray: lol Sudane Erato: and Ulrika, the new thread on the covenent is major Sudane Erato: I'll email you a description of a coop agreement... Sudane Erato: see if it helps the definitions Eugene Pomeray: oh yes, i have an idea for more market space Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. I've seen a few. It's legalese over 5 pages. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent, Sudane :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, lol Sudane Erato: well, I'll just describe it Ulrika Zugzwang: We'll have to make an SL version for those with short attention spans like me. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: That sounds excellent. Gwyneth Llewelyn: don't make me laugh, ulrika ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Go ahead Eugene. Sudane Erato: of course we need to do our version Gwyneth Llewelyn: "short attention spans" indeed... Eugene Pomeray: OK, well behind the fachwerks we can put vendor stalls Eugene Pomeray: for holovenders Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: whats a holovendor? Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, the thingy in the Marktplatz, Sudane. Eugene Pomeray: or a regular vendor Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one that rezzes in a "floating image" of the item to sell. Sudane Erato: oh! Sudane Erato: now I see Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me nods Eugene Pomeray: it gives extra space for people to sell, and more money to us :) Eugene Pomeray: am i making much sense :P Sudane Erato: Yes, i thought that the houses should all be possible shops Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, originally, Eugene, the idea would be to have holovendors as the only "official" vendor in the shops... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the sales tax. Sudane Erato: all the vendors must be "official" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to dedicate a whole row of buildings right on the platz for selling. Ulrika Zugzwang: That might take care of things. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Ulrika! :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now they are all those lego-style stacked structures. Eugene Pomeray: yes, but behind the buildings, there can be mini stalls Sudane Erato: yes, but any building could be for selling... Sudane Erato: and living too Ulrika Zugzwang: OK Eugene. To maximize land usage! Sudane Erato: true, good idea Ulrika Zugzwang: I won't say no to that. :) Eugene Pomeray: exactly :) Sudane Erato: you have to be able to find them Sudane Erato: if they're not on the streets Sudane Erato: thats why i like the medieval idea of shop below, housing above Ulrika Zugzwang: The only problem with putting shops under houses, it that it will cut into the prims of those who own the shops above. Sudane Erato: but, they should be the same person Gwyneth Llewelyn: They should, yes.... Ulrika Zugzwang: As is, prims will be low low low in the city with tiny little 144 m^2 lots. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I understand. Sudane Erato: yes, true Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: will there be places for RENTING or have we abandoned that idea completely? Eugene Pomeray: Sorry, but I have to go! :( Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, did you all see my proposed inner-wall city pricing? Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, see you Eugene! Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll get to that in one sec Gwyn. :) Eugene Pomeray: bye! Sudane Erato: bye, Eugene Ulrika Zugzwang: Bye! Ulrika Zugzwang: He's a great guy. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm, no I didn't.... is it on the official site? I'm briwsing through it right now... Ulrika Zugzwang: We're luck to have him in the group. :) Ulrika Zugzwang: lucky Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm true :) Ulrika Zugzwang: It's in the Join section. Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.... I have it open... Ulrika Zugzwang: I was thinking of charging more for land inside the walls (monthly only). Sudane Erato: ahh, yes Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now I set it at 2x but it go lower to 1.5x if you'd like. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Sudane Erato: that would make sense if the plots were commercial/residential Sudane Erato: inside plots Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: They're com/res in the walls. Sudane Erato: yes, exactly Ulrika Zugzwang: Is 2x too high? Sudane Erato: whatever the monthly starts off... Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices are so low. Sudane Erato: it can be changed Sudane Erato: the prices should be low to start Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane Erato: then, as the market environment changes Sudane Erato: you can change the rates Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see there is still the possibility of paying in L$ instead of US$ Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: We should discuss that. Sudane Erato: also, as the degree of Neualt success changes Sudane Erato: the rates might change. Sudane Erato: since we are non-profit Ulrika Zugzwang: I say yes but we need to have an overhead to cover conversion costs and rate changes. Sudane Erato: yes, of course Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as to changing rates - that is something we can deal with later, and have just the "starting prices" announced for now. Sudane Erato: yes.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to paying with L$, well, i have my doubts. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because of one thing... Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: and I think its reasonable for the starting prices to be low Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOM being unable to provide all the necessary US$ we need Sudane Erato: what about IGE Gwyneth Llewelyn: or... failing that... we could destroy the market, buying well below the trend Sudane Erato: I use them Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's an option, yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even Anshe ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: shiver* Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha Sudane Erato: ahh, interesting Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, hank then ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Ramos? Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeop Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. :D Sudane Erato: what does it matter who? Sudane Erato: its the rate! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as the agreement to pay in L$ is very clear about the rates... Ulrika Zugzwang: I only do business with ethical retailers. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Sudane, there is the "personal" thing behind that ;) Sudane Erato: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Anshe is not an option for me. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right ;) Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is pretty neutral on this Ulrika Zugzwang: Plus, if Anshe and I ever touched we'd vanish in a flash of photons. Sudane Erato: in a true capitalist society, values have no place :) Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: That's the problem with capitalism. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I'm the only person in SL that can keep a conversation with Ulrika, Prokofy and Anshe at the same time ;) Sudane Erato: yes :) Ulrika Zugzwang: It eats people. Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha! Sudane Erato: I can do with all except Prokofy Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's not bring the personal issues in here... Sudane Erato: yes Ulrika Zugzwang: True Gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point of view is simple... Gwyneth Llewelyn: If people are expecting to pay in L$... Gwyneth Llewelyn: They'll have to understand that we aren't going to guarantee a fixed rate or something Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we may have to use GOM, IGE, Hank Ramos, etc... Sudane Erato: we need never guarantee a fixed fee Ulrika Zugzwang: I was thinking of even creating an official middle person. Gwyneth Llewelyn: According to availability and not necessarily "best rate". Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Explain that to us... Ulrika Zugzwang: Such as myself who would take their $L and pay their US$ for them via pay pal. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, i see! Sudane Erato: ahhh Gwyneth Llewelyn: You = more likely Uma Bauhaus ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the "official treasurer" or something. Ulrika Zugzwang: It could be a private service ontop of the nonprofit work. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Uma. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Sudane Erato: but, I see no need for the middle person! Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought though. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, Rudeen will pay LL... Sudane Erato: the city can do that, in the person of it avatars Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: I only say middle person because it will be hard work. One could offer incentives to take that responsibility. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that you mention it, it MAY make sense. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the following... Sudane Erato: well, it would be hard work to keep the rates low Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that people in neualtenburg are "worried" because Rudeen is "doing everything" Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: then it would be normal work for so so rates Ulrika Zugzwang: Right. Sudane Erato: and its the issue of the spread Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the treasury would be more "spread" - Rudeen gets payed in US$, Uma in L$, and there is an alt for the Casino as well... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: Too much overhead could sour the deal. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like it! Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Well we can discuss it in the forums too. Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is Guild business, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: It might be a way to pull in more folks if the US$ aren't attracting the crowds. Sudane Erato: its rather involved for chat Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes it is! Ulrika Zugzwang: Good call Gwyn. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: also, remember the problems paying with Paypal Ulrika Zugzwang: I have 2 more topics for the RA. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes Sudane. That too. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, go ahead, Ulrika... Ulrika Zugzwang: First, would you two be interested in a reduction in monthly rates for those who are serving in the RA? Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah no way, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: (Or the other branches possibly). Sudane Erato: no, i think not... not now Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public service is public service - no "special allowances" Sudane Erato: maybe later Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I'd thorw it out there. ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Next on the list ... Sudane Erato: :) Sudane Erato: ah the temtress! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I'm glad you did - since we can officially put that up as a RA decision :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ulrika is evil (it says so on her profile :) ) Sudane Erato: :) _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	05-09-2005 17:12 RA Meeting on 8 May 2005 - Part 3 of 4 Ulrika Zugzwang: Put up and struck down. Ha ha. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: I haven't changed that profile since I was a cynical newbie. Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least until the next elections, due on the 22nd or so ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: I should redo hat. Ulrika Zugzwang: that Gwyneth Llewelyn: "I'm Not So Evil Anymore" :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Sudane Erato: LOL Ulrika Zugzwang: Or ... now I"m crafty about it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Sudane Erato: LOL Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Final thing. Sudane Erato: ROFL Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to do something that's quite unusual with my tract of land. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Ulrika Zugzwang: It combines privatized public space, rental spaces, and my home. Ulrika Zugzwang: So it's kind of like Sudane's idea for the church. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so far, so good... Sudane Erato: "privatized public"? Ulrika Zugzwang: Hang on. You can help me with the terminology after I 'splain it. ;) Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me nods* Ulrika Zugzwang: I propose to purchase the castle land on the East of the city in the walls. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd make a structure for me, build a new senate, build a castle. Ulrika Zugzwang: The castle would contain a few rental units while the bottom half would be for all citizens. Ulrika Zugzwang: If it is a success and we find ourselves flush with money someday, I'll transfer ownership of the castle and senate to the city. Ulrika Zugzwang: If you'd like the senate just flat out public form the start, we can do that too. Ulrika Zugzwang: from the start Ulrika Zugzwang: What do you think? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah I think I understand. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the idea would be to keep the senate, but keep it out from "public commons" so that you don't count it towards available land for sale. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I'd like to do the same with the Church ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, certainly, I agree with that. Ulrika Zugzwang: But I'd only want to do this if people can "own" the build. Sudane Erato: ? Ulrika Zugzwang: Like, I don't want you to be burdened with the church if you'd prefer a home. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the city would have a special agreement towards the usage of the Senate. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no, lol, Ulrika, I'll be more than glad to "use" my land for the Church, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: I want to feel like I "own" the build, like the way BladeDance "owned" the church. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have too many "homes" already ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: let me say my thoughts Ulrika Zugzwang: OK> Sudane Erato: you make things far too complex Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sudane Erato: I have no problem with you buying the castle land Sudane Erato: and doing what ever you wish... renting whatever Sudane Erato: but I think that the senate and the church should either be public land or private land Sudane Erato: we can designate you as the new exclusive architect.. Sudane Erato: that makes a lot of sense Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me scratches head* Sudane Erato: but there must be clairty Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. The senate is public. That's easy. Sudane Erato: the land for the senate must be public in the sense it is not on the tax roles Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll rebuild it as a guild member. :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: The same for the church? Sudane Erato: yes, and you can be the exclusive architect Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me shrugs Sudane Erato: if the guiold or the RA decides Sudane Erato: whoever Sudane Erato: I just need clarity Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA can comission the Guild to rebuild the castle, and designate Ulrika. No problem on that. Ulrika Zugzwang: The senate is public for sure. Sudane Erato: well, the castle can be private, for all I care Ulrika Zugzwang: You don't have a problem with the castle though Sudane? Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither do I. Sudane Erato: you deserve it Sudane Erato: although.. Ulrika Zugzwang: Let's start it out private with the goal of it becoming public after completion. Ulrika Zugzwang: I give to the city. :) Sudane Erato: you're well on your way to becoming Queen Ulrika! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, to be honest, I don't have a problem with the Senate building being "private" and the City can use any other structure for meetings, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: (I know you dislike gifts.) ;) Sudane Erato: right Sudane Erato: well, Gwyn;, eys Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're even supposed to have a Rathaus down there... Sudane Erato: but why is it the senate, then? Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: Wuld you like to combine the rathaus with the senate. Skip the dome and go with a Bavarian building? Sudane Erato: what is a Rathaus? Ulrika Zugzwang: That might make sense. Ulrika Zugzwang: Rathaus is a government house (Rat = Govt). Sudane Erato: more private tax role properties! Sudane Erato: ahh Sudane Erato: smaller government! Ulrika Zugzwang: Just move the meeting onto the town square. Sudane Erato: hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't know. What do you all think. Sudane Erato: I think we should move it behind locked doors Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Sudane Erato: only partly kidding Ulrika Zugzwang: Let's think about this. These are definitely tough subjects. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that Neualtenburg's government is really so small, that we don't need two separate structures for "meetings". Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: true Ulrika Zugzwang: So you're saying scrap the dome? Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, from my point of view, I'd drop the dome, yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: Done. Sudane Erato: is this the dome? what we're in? Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll see if I can throw up a rathaus today too. It'll be simple. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yup. We're in the dome. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it wasn't ever completed... although I liked the idea of being a "work in progress"; like the Government itself ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Sudane Erato: you're right.. we can be in a simple room Sudane Erato: should be fairly big, tho Ulrika Zugzwang: With nice furniture and chairs. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree on this? No more "dome" and all this land is for Ulrika to build the castle? Ulrika Zugzwang: Could be nice. Sudane Erato: much easier to see everyone Sudane Erato: yes, I agreee enthusiastically Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's agreeable to you as well, ulrika? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that your "ok" has answered it ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Ulrika Zugzwang: As long as we're on a roll, what about the church. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, how big is the Church's plot anyway? Sudane Erato: I agree to go along with a consensus Gwyneth Llewelyn: and how many prims does it take... Sudane Erato: its more practical than what I have suggested Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Gwyneth Llewelyn: More than 1872 prims? Gwyneth Llewelyn: on a 8192 plot? Ulrika Zugzwang: Give me 1 sec and I'll let you know. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I've never checked, to be honest... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can't get the whole listing on the "Land" tab in the group information box :( Sudane Erato: oh well Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Eugene! Sudane Erato: what is the issue to decide? Eugene Pomeray: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: It's about 3000 m^2. Ulrika Zugzwang: Sorry I was gone so long. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only that? Hmm. and how many prims? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try to explain... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm willing to do a similar thing as with the castle here Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm not sure. Let me go check. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, get a 4096 plot or the equivalent needed for the church's prims Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe bon voyage, Ulrika Sudane Erato: well, question. Sudane Erato: could we donate prims... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Sudane Erato: like... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just suggesting this, if the Church is above the threshold for 3000 m2 Sudane Erato: have our land in a group which shares the church? Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely my idea, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: then its not an either/or situation Ulrika Zugzwang: It's 2128 m^2. It supports 487 prims. It's using 990 prims. Sudane Erato: whew Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, what Sudane was saying is a way to get out of this issue... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm willing to set up a group with the required amount of prims for the Church Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 5000 or so m2 Gwyneth Llewelyn: which will have a plot somewhere in the sim, empty Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is always great, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND hold the Church :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: welll... or Sudane Erato: add our own land to the group.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 4500 or so. Ulrika Zugzwang: Another way to do that is to connect all the space under the roads and bridge to the church. Sudane Erato: and simply not use all our prims Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but they'll have prims on it as well... Sudane Erato: well, yes! Ulrika Zugzwang: To be honest though, the church could use 450 prims and still be amazing. Sudane Erato: but that is the same as city ownership! Ulrika Zugzwang: BladeDancer just wan't that prim efficient. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, pfft, old monuments were never efficient, LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this can wait ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: I trimmed my fachwerk from 150 prims down to 25. Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Eugene Pomeray: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I just want you to get a good deal gwyn. Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, at the beginning of Phase II, I'll have to pay a lot for space ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I know, Ulrika! Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't want you taking on the church as a burden to solve a structural problem for us. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Sudane won't like us "giving things" to Neualtenburg as well. Sudane Erato: right Ulrika Zugzwang: I want it to be yours if you're going to take it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, i don't want it to go away! Ulrika Zugzwang: Not yours but the hybrid public-yours we've been discussing. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Privately owned for public use ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: Gwyn can be the city designated care-=taker Gwyneth Llewelyn: who me? lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA, as a whole, is the caretaker. Ulrika Zugzwang: You shouldn't be forced into a position of charity just to solve the problems of the build. That's all. Sudane Erato: yes, thats right... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes, Ulrika, I hear you :) Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: at least not all by yourself Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm just looking out for you. ;) Sudane Erato: since some of us might share the same feelings Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. you. :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, I really appreciate it, and probably comission you to trim some prims, under my strict supervision ;) Sudane Erato: good, Ulrika would be good at that! Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can cut a few more prims off, I'll add extra features, hehe Ulrika Zugzwang: Snip snip. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane Erato: lol Ulrika Zugzwang: Perhaps there's a way we can transfer the whole structure to you. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm Ulrika Zugzwang: We could sell the parcel to BladeDancer, then have you buy it for $o. Ulrika Zugzwang: $0. Sudane Erato: reminder: Simple Simple Ulrika Zugzwang: Would that give you ownership? Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to set up a group. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Rudeen has to deed it to that group. Gwyneth Llewelyn: With the structure. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Sudane Erato: and then you have to be responsible for the tier Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Sudane Erato: and then you have my proposal! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your proposal being...? Ulrika Zugzwang: ? Sudane Erato: that a group "own" the church, not the city Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Sudane Erato: and that it be an interest group Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the idea. Eugene Pomeray: i have to go again :p my mother is here for mother's day Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok Eugene! Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao EUgene! Sudane Erato: lol Sudane Erato: bye! _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	05-09-2005 17:12 RA Meeting on 8 May 2005 - Part 4 of 4 Eugene Pomeray: bye everyone Ulrika Zugzwang: BYe. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane, that was my idea... Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having a group, owning the church - but this very same group will also be "used" for other things, like group announcements for the church, tec. Gwyneth Llewelyn: etc Sudane Erato: well, I think that's a good idea, if the group can be mustered Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah it can be a one-person group Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, three-person group :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll join. Sudane Erato: yes, and the group probably should agree with the city to keep the church and maintain its programs under certain standards Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if by some insane reason I get "voted out"... Rudeen can still claim the land, etc. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah certainly, Suande Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane Erato: yes... Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thanks Ulrika :) Sudane Erato: I will join too Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll have to fix my groups, hmm Sudane Erato: but, better a group... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I need another 50 or so ;) Ulrika Zugzwang: I know! Ulrika Zugzwang: Group limits are a hassle. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they are :P Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, I should get going. I need to eat, convert my textures to TGA, and then start uploading. :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok! Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops. Sudane is gone. :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Sudane crashed, lol Ulrika Zugzwang: She's gonna be mad! Ulrika Zugzwang: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought she was writing something... Ulrika Zugzwang: Me too. Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Ulrika Zugzwang: I was waiting. Gwyneth Llewelyn: so was I lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: there she is again... Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't see her yet. Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me offer her a tp... Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Sudane :) Sudane Erato: sorry. Ulrika Zugzwang: :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: no problem :) Ulrika Zugzwang: I was telling gwyn that I better run. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one issue for the RA to discuss in the next meeting or so... Ulrika Zugzwang: I need to eat and get some textures done. Sudane Erato: OK, Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time for discussing the next elections. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ok, ulrika.... Sudane Erato: ahh, yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don't need to discuss them until May, 22nd Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Ulrika Zugzwang: Is that when elections are due? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: oficially, we told in public that we would do elections near the "day of move" Ulrika Zugzwang: We could always extend them until we have a populace. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: I suggest now that we postpone them Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now it would be a boring election. Ulrika Zugzwang: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain ;) Sudane Erato: exactly Sudane Erato: theres no one to vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I'm willing to explain that publicly.... Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That sounds good to me. Ulrika Zugzwang: We can hold elections as soon as we're at a certain percent of occupancy. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like, hmm, Phase II will attract new citizens, and we would like them to vote as well, so we're giving everybody a break. Ulrika Zugzwang: TBD. Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sounds a good compromise. Sudane Erato: thats a great idea! Ulrika Zugzwang: Works for me. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I'm going to eat. I'm starvin'! Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane, is Neualtenburg "visible" at the moment from the mainland? Ulrika Zugzwang: Next time youlog in, check out the new buildings Gwyn. Sudane Erato: no food in SL! :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: and don't die from hunger in SL, lol Sudane Erato: Neault is visible to all Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I certainly will! Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll be around here for a while... church meeting at 4 PM hehe Sudane Erato: I left it open after the thinkers mtg Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Although I wasn't able to hold it here! Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I will next Tuesday. Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: It seems that to have everything configured properly, you need to set up "landing points" first. Sudane Erato: sorry I can't be here tonight Gwyneth Llewelyn: I've done that for some parcels... Gwyneth Llewelyn: And don't worry, Sudane :) Ulrika Zugzwang: OK! I'll be here too. :D Ulrika Zugzwang: NP Sudane. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll do some more. Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. for the meeting. Nevermind. Sudane Erato: we need to contact the LL on another issue.. the telehub is still marked below Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I have an idea to use Neualtenburg as a "battle field" for the guys doing the Portal Wars game... :) Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. RIght. Sudane Erato: but... we're pacifists! Ulrika Zugzwang: Ooh. That would be fun. Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm a leftist. I was born with a gun in my hand. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, hmm, when you CRASH in Neualtenburg, you appear at the OLD telehub spot, right? Ulrika Zugzwang: ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Sudane Erato: yes Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. That's a pain. Gwyneth Llewelyn: but when you teleport in, you go to the new destination instead. Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I'm about to pass out. I have to go eat! Sudane Erato: and it might end up being in someone's house Gwyneth Llewelyn: go away, Ulrika!!!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll see you all soon. Ulrika Zugzwang: Bye! Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye Ulrika Zugzwang: ooh woozy. Sudane Erato: bye! Ulrika Zugzwang: Tschau! Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww poor Ulrika. Sudane Erato: good meeting Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, did you manage to capture it all? Sudane Erato: yes, in about 2 dozen emails! Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah wow Sudane Erato: Eloise's machine is really good! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm glad it works :) Sudane Erato: well, we've all got work! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right :) Formatted and colorized with transcript. _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	06-27-2005 22:14 RA Meeting on 27 June 2005 - Part 1 of 5 Ryker Tonic: we might need more seats Dianne Mechanique: oh Dianne Mechanique: :)hi sudane Sudane Erato: there she is! Eugene Pomeray: hi gwyn! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all :) Eugene Pomeray: yes Eugene Pomeray: ok Eugene Pomeray: start Neualtenburg Balloon whispers: Balloon is released. Sudane Erato: but wait... Sudane Erato: what if other people come? Garnet Psaltery: well you told us to look for the crowd Garnet Psaltery: so that's what they'll do Sudane Erato: :) Garnet Psaltery: when Gwyn gets in we can fly somewhere beyond th efog Dianne Mechanique: hi gwyneth Ryker Tonic: lets hover close by Dianne Mechanique: how far up to get out of the fog? Ryker Tonic: just in case Dianne Mechanique: they will still see us no? Garnet Psaltery: we could go down into the valley Dianne Mechanique: nice and clear here Eugene Pomeray: stop Neualtenburg Balloon whispers: Balloon is stopped. Eugene Pomeray: is this good? Garnet Psaltery: good for me Sudane Erato: can you fly up to 227 ? Eugene Pomeray: we are at 229 Ryker Tonic: Every time I see Eugene...there's a strong chance of getting airsick. Garnet Psaltery: what's at 227? Sudane Erato: yes :) Dianne Mechanique: this is my absolute first ride in a balloon Sudane Erato: our height Dianne Mechanique: so i am okay with it Sudane Erato: mine too! Eugene Pomeray: :) Garnet Psaltery: oh I shoudl have goven you a ride in mine Dianne Mechanique: yes i hoped yo would but no Dianne Mechanique: :( Garnet Psaltery: too busy sorry Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder what will happen if we getmore than two extra people on this ride :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: They'll have to grab the rails... Eugene Pomeray: hehe Sudane Erato: :) Garnet Psaltery: please excus eme a moment I need to go upstairs .. Dianne Mechanique: could be fun Gwyneth Llewelyn: :) Sudane Erato: hehe Ryker Tonic: bleck Ryker Tonic: bad salad dressing Enjah Mysterio is offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, shall we start? Sudane Erato: sure.. Sudane Erato: should we record? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, let's hope it works :) Dianne Mechanique: caht log? Sudane Erato: :) Garnet Psaltery: back again Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have an amazing device that sends you automatic emails with the logs, Dianne... Dianne Mechanique: cool Dianne Mechanique: wonders never cease :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: when it works, it's amazing :) Eugene Pomeray: :) Sudane Erato: nope Sudane Erato: won't stay up here :( Sudane Erato: oh well... Garnet Psaltery: we could down to the valley Sudane Erato: we'll just cip logs, I guess Gwyneth Llewelyn shrugs Garnet Psaltery: or I coudlk tell you how to cut fog Sudane Erato: yes, killing the fog is easy Eugene Pomeray: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ctrl-Shift-Alt-Minus Ryker Tonic: nice sunset Sudane Erato: if the Debug is on Dianne Mechanique: it's very pretty up here Sudane Erato: yes :) Garnet Psaltery: Have we started yet? Dianne Mechanique: does it snow in this sim? Eugene Pomeray: no Eugene Pomeray: we are in our "fall" season Sudane Erato: complex question :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL, I think we need more tyrannical means to conduct the meeting :) Dianne Mechanique: order! Sudane Erato: hehe Eugene Pomeray: :) Sudane Erato: Gwyn, you're the MC Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hehe. Just for the sake of argument, yes, we're planning to change the textures on the sim to reflect the seasons :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the trees as well. Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right :) So we have two things to discuss today... Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is the upcoming elections. Sudane Erato: yes Eugene Pomeray: the expo and elctions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we start with that one? Garnet Psaltery: yes Sudane Erato: yes Ryker Tonic: May I ask a question? Eugene Pomeray: sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead, Ryker :) Ryker Tonic: How many residents are there? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good point - that's one for Sudane. Sudane Erato: right now there are 13 Ryker Tonic: kk Eugene Pomeray: 14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13, all right. Gwyneth Llewelyn: 14? Dianne Mechanique: how lucky Eugene Pomeray: oh, whoops Sudane Erato: and several more, like Dianne, are immeninent Sudane Erato: SP Dianne Mechanique: :) Ryker Tonic: i am trying to recruit Sudane Erato: great! Sudane Erato: we'd like maybe 30 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's great :) Yes, 30-40 is our target.... Ryker Tonic: I've had several freinds visit over the past few days Eugene Pomeray: so when do you think is a good time for elections Dianne Mechanique: may i ask a question? Eugene Pomeray: sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, currently, our "psychological problem" is that the currently elected body does not really reflect the current resident population :) Sudane Erato: yes Dianne Mechanique: how so? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah - well, they have been elected during Phase I. Sudane Erato: and there are only 2 left active Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which had more people - hmm, around 60 or so - but they didn't own the land. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, 4, actually, Sudane - I'm counting with Ulrika and Kendra :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or do you mean at the Government? Sudane Erato: ahhh, yes, but they are not RA members, subject to election Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right right. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that's correct. Dianne Mechanique: we are moving up? Eugene Pomeray is offline Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, if you have bothered to read it, the Constitution does not define how often the Representative Assembly should be re-elected Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither the number of elected members :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was deliberate, as the number of people in Neualtenburg change over time... Sudane Erato: yes Garnet Psaltery: I can't see any typing Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the representative Assembly has to do is to set up a date for the elections Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, garnet? Hmm Sudane Erato: we lost Eugene Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, this is not going well, lol Dianne Mechanique: she is still online Sudane Erato: there is someone down there Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't see Eugene online... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, how does this baloon go downwards without a pilot? Dianne Mechanique: only he can control the boat? Ryker Tonic: rofl Sudane Erato: hehe Dianne Mechanique: w are too high to fly witthout aid Sudane Erato: lost in space! Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my... Gwyneth Llewelyn: this was definitely an evil plot to get rid of us :) Sudane Erato: lol Ryker Tonic: i have jetpacks Dianne Mechanique: probly a single bomb under one of the seats Ryker Tonic: if we need to bail Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if Eugene logs in again... Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can tp him back... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope :( Ryker Tonic: i worry who's on the grouns Ryker Tonic: ground Dianne Mechanique: should i go and check? Dianne Mechanique: i wont be able to come back though Ryker Tonic: one of us should Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can tp you back in, Dianne... Dianne Mechanique: someone with a carbon rod or somethign Garnet Psaltery: Sorry I still can't see anything I'l have to relog Sudane Erato: maybe we all should Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol, I think it's best :) Dianne Mechanique: somethign happened to my view when eugene logged Dianne Mechanique: hard to adjsut Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Garnet Psaltery: Oh .. I just set myself not busy and everything cam eup Dianne Mechanique: sorry Dianne Mechanique: fell out the moment i stood up Sudane Erato: hey :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, here we are again :) Garnet Psaltery: yes Garnet Psaltery: just missign eugene Dianne Mechanique: there are others around also Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if we're able to recover the balloon, though... Dianne Mechanique: druid something Dianne Mechanique: :) Sudane Erato: is that kind OK? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's wait for Garnet... Garnet Psaltery: I'm here Sudane Erato: shes here Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww that's a nice chair Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, lol - sorry :) Dianne Mechanique: gwyneth is still on busy mode Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm constantly being interrupted :) Garnet Psaltery: being on busy mode makes people disappear and typing Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no - I have the History open Dianne Mechanique: sorry wer you moving this one? Dianne Mechanique: hello bond Garnet Psaltery: hello Bond Harrington: hello, what's going on? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Bond :) Dianne Mechanique: meeting Garnet Psaltery: just starting th emeeting Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, this is an open meeting of the Neualtenburger Representative Assembly. Bond Harrington: oh. Who do I need to talk to in order to get a plot here? Dianne Mechanique: all we need is cappucino Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane is the right person for that, Bond :) Dianne Mechanique: and a round table Sudane Erato: yes, I'm available after the meeting :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although may I suggest afterwards... Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Bond Harrington: oh ok Garnet Psaltery: so .. elections Sudane Erato: I've only got a rectange table Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the easy part - setting a date :) Sudane Erato: yes, elections Gwyneth Llewelyn: The complex part - the proceedings. Dianne Mechanique: sokay sudane :) Dianne Mechanique: joke Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Has any of you bothered to read the Constitution? ;) Garnet Psaltery: I did but I've forgotten it Dianne Mechanique: i have but it dont stick so good :) Ryker Tonic shifts uncomfortably in his seat Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I'm going to quote parts of it by heart, my computer is too slow right now to launch it.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: to launch a browser, I mean Dianne Mechanique: paraphrase it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, basically, you vote for "factions", not for people Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Factions" are just groups of people that represent a common idea. Sudane Erato: like parties Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a limitation, that the faction number had to be as big as the whole Representative Assembly Bond Harrington: So, it's a little like the Westminster parlimament? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just like parties. Garnet Psaltery: so what factions are there? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, or like most of the European parliaments.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we had just 2 registered parties last time.... Sudane Erato: but there are no members of the second one Gwyneth Llewelyn: And one which almost did make it (missed one member, if I remember correctly, to be able to apply) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane. Garnet Psaltery: what are they called? Dianne Mechanique: how can it be aparty without members? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we lost the members, lol Dianne Mechanique: after the fact Sudane Erato: well, the original one started by Ulrika is the SDF Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Sudane Erato: Social Democratic Faction Garnet Psaltery: ok Dianne Mechanique: yes Sudane Erato: its got a statement of purpose somewhere Dianne Mechanique: on her site Sudane Erato: on the old site Garnet Psaltery: I know what it is roughly Dianne Mechanique: i think Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you can look it up somewhere from Ulrika's site. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or from the Neualtenburg forums. Dianne Mechanique: what is the second one Dianne Mechanique: ? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it must be deeply hidden.... Sudane Erato: what was it called? Gwyneth Llewelyn: the second one, the MPP, right? Sudane Erato: ah, yes Dianne Mechanique: silly party? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Headed by Pendari Lorenz, she had a more moderate view. Dianne Mechanique: i have talked with her a bit _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh

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