Bill 4-30: Sim Management Bill

Speaking strictly from my own point of view, I like the concept that the "sim owner" (at least until the summer, where everything will be changed by LL anyway by allowing co-ownership of private islands) is somehow validated by the RA. It makes sense that, due to its vital role, it is a Governmental function that gets a "vote of confidence" from the RA, not unlike what happens to the SC members that get appointed.

I would probably reword things to leave the function to be appointed by the Guild, but validated through the RA, but that's also just "wording" — I think that the spirit of having the RA to provide a "vote of confidence" is more important than "wording". All in all, a very interesting proposal

There are some technicalities with the "ownership" not being in conflict with other roles. After all, it was agreed that the sim owner is not a citizen — but an alt, created for the whole purpose of paying to Linden Lab. ToS, however, prevents things like password sharing and the like, so this is more a solution to circumvent limitations of SL than anything else. The current sim "owner" (an alt) is thus not tied to any governmental role; it's for all practical purposes a drone without a mind, not unlike the "Uma Bauhaus" alt that was used to tie into the vendor system for similar reasons (very likely, this bill could also deal with this role as well).

Around summer or so, when LL rolls out the new group tools, this bill will be obsolete. What will happen then (hopefully) is that the "Neualtenburg Raumnutzung" group, as a whole, will have the ability to pay the monthly fee to Linden Lab. So the sim "owner" will be, de facto and de jure, the whole of the City, as Kendra pointed out. Naturally enough, the issue here is one of timing. Do we really believe that Linden Lab will keep their promised timeline for implementating this? I'd say, half of the residents in SL will highly like say "sure, just like Havok 2 or in-world HTML" Still, I think it doesn't hurt to pass a law that will be obsolete in a few months — it can always be changed later.

I'm not against trying to limit the power of a single individual. But in the case of sim owner there is no way to reduce her power. Requiring her to stay off RA or SC isn't going to reduce her power in the least. If she decides to abuse power, she will, regardless. Making a law to limit her involvement in the government isn't going to limit her power at all. And she will still have the power to intimidate all officers from the position of sim owner. Having an extra title won't be any more threatening. That's my opinion anyhow.

I don't.

The reason I came to Neualtenburg isn't because I wanted to participate in the government. However, I thought that there was still a place for me here.

I'd prefer not to live in a place where it's expected that everyone participates in running the place (and debating, and law-making, etc. etc.).

I'm fairly glad to vote for people and have them do all the nitty-gritty stuff. Which is why I, too, imagine that not many more positions can easily be filled from the current populace.

I think it's more a question of principle than anything else, Kevn. Yes, you're right, with the outrageously limited tools LL has given us to deal with co-ownership, the ultimate impact of this bill will be less than zero; on the other hand, as a valid principle (ie. the validation of appointment of specially powerful individuals, with a system of balances and checks), it fits in nicely in the whole philosophy of Neualtenburg.

I agree, and even with some of rewording you mention.
My reasons for not having the Guild pick amongst themselves, is simply to provide another check and balance.

I also agree that expecting LL to meet the deadline on group-tools is just too funny to consider.

relax --it was a joke

Gwyn's rewording would make it more consistent with the way things are run in the city currently. If you approve, you could always add that modification and post the bill again (maybe as 4-30-1) in this thread for further disucssion. The more concessions, the more likely its passage I think.

~Ulrika~

Well, the only slight problem with that is having a political body (ie. the RA, split among factions) to appoint a role that is supposedly to be apolitic (all Guild functions are not "split among factions". Still, I believe that to be moot; everything in N'burg is political anyway — so having either the RA pick a Guild member, or the Guild nominate/appoint one of its own members to get a validation by the RA, will always be a "political" issue. So either case may work...




Oh, we definitely need something to which we can all laugh at

BTW, next Thursday will be a Linden Community Team Roundtable (free to attend) where the group tools (or rather, the estimated introduction of them...) will be addressed to some degree.

AS I said --I agree with your rewording --and would be fine with it reworded as you say --I was only explaining my intitial motivation for it being RA and not Guild --it's not a huge issue for me.

I think the bill is admirable in principle, but the devil is, as always, in the details.

First, I tend to agree with Kevn that the owner/manager powers are so extensive that the mere act of separating them out from other government functions does little to limit the abuse possibilities. This is about how LL does things and is inevitable until they change how ownership/management works.

Second, it's unclear from the text of the bill whether the owner and managers will have a term of office and whether or not some sort of mandatory rotation of the office holders is intended.

I also believe that LL charges a $100 USD or $150USD fee to change the ownership of an island. Any change in the sim owner would thus entail considerable expense to the city. Rather than pay that fee with any regularity, I believe that the sim owner would stay in office for a long time.

Also, passing this bill at this time would quite possibly force a major government reshuffle. Bond Harringtom is the only member of the Guild (according to the in world group list) who is not currently in government. If she's not willing to serve....

Finally, this may lessen our ability to deal with crises. I imagine this bill would result in a much smaller group of sim managers. If there are then restrictions and approvals required before those managers can exercise power, the likelihood that a manager would be available and appropriately empowered were someone to drop a physics bomb, as happened a few months ago, is greatly reduced.

You and Kevn are viewing this from the wrong angle.

This is not to weaken the Sim Owner's powers.

This is to keep the checks and balances of ther 3 branches of Government in order as whatever branch of Government has a Sim Owner sitting at it will perforce give that branch far too much power.

The Sim Owner must be seperate from The Government in much the same way as Haliburton should be seperate from the US Government.

We leave ourselves open for Robber-Barons and Dick Cheneys at the moment.

Yet another consideration regarding the RL owner of the sim - whoever that might be. We really need to come up with some sort of backup/emergency plan should the untoward happen to that person in RL and keep her from carrying out her primary duty - paying tier.

Any ideas how to do go about doing that?

other than setting up an emergency transfer fund in escrow escrow --so we can be sure LL is paid transference funds immediately --I haven't a clue

What happens if Sudane gets hit by a RL truck tomorrow? Something to consider. Perhaps we eat the $150USD and hold a snap GM election.

I like the idea of keeping the Sim ownership in the hands of the GM as it is currently. The GM holds the lands & city IP, is a capable builder/scripter, and highly experienced. Furthermore, it's a good fit because the GM handles city finances and the city's financial relationship to LL through the GM alt.

The Neualtenburg bank/treasury is managed by the GM as a holding tank for city finances, bond issuance, short term investments, corporation escrow and so forth. This isn't new.

Now...try this on for size....

*Two Disaster Recovery Funds (DCFs) are held in the bank.
-The RA-DCF holds the GM's personal funds in escrow equal to 1/2 the amount of city value
-The SC-DCF holds the GM's personal funds in escrow equal to 1/2 the amount of city value

The RA-DCF and SC-DCF are accessable only to the LRA and Dean respectively by passage of an emergency bill. Of course to be GM Sim manager, you'd have to have some deep pockets. That is the *only* way I can think of to address this given the current framework. I sure hope LL gets that group ownership feature done soon...

What about the new Sim?
I'd like to see the Praetor a non-LRA member of the RA and the owner of the new Sim. He/she can put the DCF escrow in for Colonia Nova. In that sense, the Praetor is not a weak city councillor, but a true Provincial Governor with the power to secede potentially.

What is it with you guys and fascism lately?

Guess I really am N'burgs only remaining Socialist.

What exactly makes the status quo with a big GM penalty for stealing the sim more fascist than what we have now? If anything it checks the GM's power via the other 2 branches. You have a better, workable idea?

Yes. Bill 4-30. Have you read it?

4-30 does nothing whatsoever to stop the sim owner from selling the sim and everything in it to Anshe Chung. In fact, any sim owner with questionable ethics could do it without any fear at all of punishment. I'm eternally grateful Sudane hasn't hung us all out to dry. There's no downside for her or any other NB sim owner to do so. It'd be like a nuke hit NB and there's nothing left.

My proposal punishes the criminal sim owner severely, so that criminal behavior results in a financial loss. What's the fascist part again?

BTW I agree with you that the city land should all be group owned. Seriously. But we have to wait for the tools.

PS: Play nice, we have 2 votes.

Will that be arriving with Havok 2?

and BTW --MY proposal has the entire RA voting amongst Guild members of solid standing --as opposed to what?

Currently if Sudane left we have no mechanism to pick another Sim "Owner

In my post, which I'm sure you read, I mentioned an immediate election for GM if/when the GM steps down. This is a vote among guild masters who are by definition guild members in good standing. It's right in the constitution.

I'm also saying the new GM would need to put up a total of say, $612.28 in DCF escrow.

sim owner = GOD

What does the RA vote of confidence achieve? Your proposal basically says the RA will choose GOD from non GM masters in good standing. GOD cannot be the guildmaster. GOD doesn't really care because GOD is GOD.

Now if GOD sold the sim for $600USD and then lost $612.28, GOD could still do it, but probably wouldn't bother as it's not worth the aggravation to lose $12.28.

Find me *ANY* better deterrent for the sim manager not selling out illegally and destroying the project instantly. Otherwise I'd just save time and keep things the way they are until the new tools arrive.

Bringing this back on track - I really want suggestions without the hyperbole - about a potential RL situation.

Should we have an extra month's tier stashed somewhere? Require the RL owner to notarize a document attached to their RL Will indicating that this particular asset belongs to other's in a silly little game/platform? How about requiring the revelation of the RL owner's name to another NBerger with pertinent information so that RL communication can be had with RL owner's next of kin?

Ask LL is they have any policies regarding these types of situatioins? I'm sure it hasn't arisen yet, but what if Anshe, Sudane, Desmond bit the dust?

Let's be serious folks.

Sorry Salzie, no hyperbole intended...Most people want to be able to keep RL and SL separate.

1)Guildmaster (Sudane) leaves SL without notice:
-We don't hear from Sudane for a week (or some specified timeframe)
-Her City paypal accounts are frozen from us
-RA passes an emergency bill to open the DCF
-We use DCF money to pay tier
-We elect a new GM
-GM deposits into DCF escrow
-GM sets up the new city paypal account(s)

2)Guildmaster (Sudane) sells the sim without permission
-Neualtenburg exists now only in the minds of the citizens, land has been flattened and emptied by a new owner who bars us entry.
-RA passes an emergency bill to open the DCF
-We buy another Sim from LL using the DCF funds
-We elect a new GM
-GM deposits into DCF escrow
-LRA transfers city public IP to GM
-GM oversees rezzing the city infrastructure
-Guild aids citizens in rebuilding private infrastructure

I understand that. I, too, want to keep the two separate - yet this is an inescapable RL situation, regardless of who holds the position.

I have no doubt that the Nburgers would pull together in such a situation, yet RL legalities tie our hands unless some proactive measures are in place. I would like to identify and address these issues and have a framework, which everyone understands, in place.

IMHO, this isn't just N'burg situation. As SL grows and the land barons proliferate, this is a matter which LL needs to address.

Well, it seems I've passed the Turing test yet again. How reassuring!

There is a trivial, extralegal solution. Leave your password with a trusted person. On the internet, nobody can check your pulse.

A slightly more complex (lawful?) solution would be a webapp which cashes the account's $L balance to USD, in accordance with properly legally documented instructions. Group officers can manage all the rest.

But I'm leaning toward AI myself.

Eventually, my human form will become more of a liability than anything else, and once truly self-contained in the metaverse I can cancel that damned cruddy DSL service forever.

I think this is a seperate issue, and had nothing to do with my bill.