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Election Results - August 2005

Gwyneth Llewelyn
Winking Loudmouth
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,336
08-07-2005 11:02
From: Dianne Mechanique
Cant this be fixed by simply allowing alt votes if the alt has land?
Ownership of land (to me), makes you a citizen.
If you have land and a house and you live there as your alt and pay the same fees why should you not get a vote?
Note this is not land based voting, but ownership of land as a requirement of citizenship.


We have sort of argued about that when the new sim was brought up, and citizenship was tied to ownership of a share in Neualtenburg (it wasn't so in Anzere). This, however, was never really "written on stone" - but I agree that it should have been - but "assumed" by everybody. The fact is, land ownership entitled you to a vote in Neualtenburg (and I assume that being able to vote and be elected is the easiest definition of citizenship in Neualtenburg).

Your suggestion sounds pretty similar to what I just wrote in an email to one of our concerned citizens :) Yes, alt voting or a land-based voting system are really two similar solutions to the same problem. They both address the same issue.

As a matter of principle, I dislike the idea of tying votes to the amount of money someone has invested in Neualtenburg. I prefer that people get elected because of what other residents perceive as their valid contribution to the city, and not because of how much money they have. I'm sorry, it's just my naive way to look at the world, but it's still something I believe in. However, if there is no valid alternative, I will just shrug my shoulders and go with what everybody else thinks is best.

As said, both your suggestion and Ulrika's have a strong, solid foundation in their argumentation. My own, sadly, is only based on "principles" which are not technically enforceable.
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Gwyneth Llewelyn
Winking Loudmouth
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,336
08-07-2005 11:03
From: Kendra Bancroft
You don't like the canal? :eek:


It was an example, Kendra!!! I love the canal :)
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
08-07-2005 12:34
I wish I had more time to write my own words on this issue right now. But unfortunatly I'm on packing crunch time. :(

However, if you want to know my current thoughts, just go back and re-read *everything* that Gwyneth has posted in this thread, and you will see my exact thoughts there almost to a T. :)
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
08-07-2005 13:56
From: Kendra Bancroft

The tactical voting issue (an experiment of the SC) is a non-issue, as anyone voting for the Costume Party necessarily did it for tactical reasons -- where was Costume Party literature? Who was it's candidate? Was it merely an issue of tactics? I think not --a vote for the Costume Party would have merely reflected a no-confidence vote on the part of a citizen.


Where is it written that a faction must necessarily campaign?
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
08-07-2005 14:02
From: Gwyneth Llewelyn

Fifthly, I'm appaled by the suggestion of tying votes to the amount of land owned. Any political system that is clearly based upon the ability of buying in your votes is condemned. I never claimed that a representative democracy was a "perfect" system. But it's far better than a plutocracy in any case!


In some other time, some other thread, I'd love to see this assertion backed up.

I mean, I happen to agree with Gwyneth, but it's the sort of debate I get into.
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
08-07-2005 14:24
From: Dianne Mechanique
I think Sudane can defend herself here, but is it really necessary amongst a groups of supposed comrades to use this kind of inflammatory personal attack language? If one wants to talk about people making exaggerations that end up causing confusion, perhaps there are others more at fault than Sudane.


I confess, the immediate accusation of wrong-doing disturbs me. Perhaps Ulrika was just using hyperbole, but even if it isn't spelled out directly in the Neualten constitution, "innocent until proven guilty" is one of those principles that seem to be taken as granted as a good and necessary thing.

Granted, I've made some unserious comments about the assumption that democracy is a good thing, so perhaps I'm not one to speak.
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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
08-07-2005 16:32
From: Aliasi Stonebender
Where is it written that a faction must necessarily campaign?



It isn't. My point was anyone voting for The Costume Party did so with out any data as to what their current platform might be, and who it's candidate was. Makes for a curious vote is all. Like I say --I read Costume Party as a "no-confidence" vote
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
08-07-2005 17:21
From: Kendra Bancroft
It isn't. My point was anyone voting for The Costume Party did so with out any data as to what their current platform might be, and who it's candidate was. Makes for a curious vote is all. Like I say --I read Costume Party as a "no-confidence" vote


Well, kinda. Certainly, if a real Costume Party was existent, I would find their "platform" closer to my personal beliefs than that of the SDF. So you're correct in a sense.

On the other hand, I also believe that a random sampling of five citizens wouldn't actually be much different, and probably no worse in quality, than the elected RA. I know most of the people currently in Neualtenburg by reputation, if not personally, and even the ones I disagree with, I know have no intention but to see the sim prosper.

So, over all, much less "tactical", than "whimsical", which is about right for me.
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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
08-07-2005 17:56
From: Aliasi Stonebender
Well, kinda. Certainly, if a real Costume Party was existent, I would find their "platform" closer to my personal beliefs than that of the SDF. So you're correct in a sense.

On the other hand, I also believe that a random sampling of five citizens wouldn't actually be much different, and probably no worse in quality, than the elected RA. I know most of the people currently in Neualtenburg by reputation, if not personally, and even the ones I disagree with, I know have no intention but to see the sim prosper.

So, over all, much less "tactical", than "whimsical", which is about right for me.


You're always free to ressurect it :)
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
08-07-2005 18:05
From: Kendra Bancroft
You're always free to ressurect it :)


I may. Although that would be distressingly like hard work.
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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
08-07-2005 22:20
From: Aliasi Stonebender
I confess, the immediate accusation of wrong-doing disturbs me. Perhaps Ulrika was just using hyperbole, but even if it isn't spelled out directly in the Neualten constitution, "innocent until proven guilty" is one of those principles that seem to be taken as granted as a good and necessary thing.
Wow. Great discussions in this thread. I was actually at a child-birth class from 9:30 until 4:30 today, otherwise I would've been involved in real time.


I just wanted to say that I never accused anyone directly rather I was fact finding. I stated specifically at the beginning that I had evidence of fraud and a double vote. I asked that people contact me by email to discuss the anomaly before I began an official fraud investigation. In the end, the person who had generated this data announced it not by email but by forum, choosing to release RL information themselves. When things were clarified, I instantly ended the informal inquiry, called the election, and posted the results.

Note that I never released personal information. I never accused any individual specifically of any crime. I always tried to use the words which stressed that this was just an allegation which needed clarification and not an inquisition.

This is precisely what someone should do when they are concerned about potential fraud but don't want to release any personal information about the individual votes. If you were monitoring the election, how would you handle suspected fraud? Would you call the election first and then recall it after you proved there was fraud? Would you publish names on the forum immediately? I think most would have done exactly what I did. :)


Also, I never released election results early. Rather at Sudane's request (both in the forum and by email) I released how many votes were in along with other information that would not affect the outcome of the vote (at the time we were waiting for two absentee votes). I see no problem with this whatsoever. It's just a count of how many votes were remaining, the status of tactical voting, and a summary of the potential problems.

If you were asked how many votes were remaining by forum and by email, would you post them (I ignored the email asking for further updates after the brouhaha began)? Would you share immediately with the citizenship that you were concerned about voting fraud? Would you not create a fake third party to trick the MPP into revealing their true nature? (The last questions is just a joke. Smile and scroll on.) :D


Finally, a friend of mine who is not a member of Neualtenburg, who often follows our saga as a forum lurker sent me an IM. Apparently, somewhere in this slew of threads someone accused me of recreating "Animal Farm" or something like that. As a major politico in SL, I've been accused of being Hitler, Stalin, and so on dozens of times. So many, in fact, that people joke that there should be an Ulrika political drinking game. Whenever someone calls me Hitler, you have to take a drink. Anyways, the IM wanted to tell me that "Animal Farm" references require a drink as well! :D

You all didn't know we were a soap opera, did you? ;)

~Ulrika~
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Gwyneth Llewelyn
Winking Loudmouth
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,336
Official Congratulation Speech
08-08-2005 02:08
I'm really sorry to have missed the opportunity to do the official end-of-term speech. I think I must get used to instill some "traditions" in Neualtenburg. Also, the last time, it was the RA's President ("Burgermeisterinn";) that officially announced the new members at the RA and welcomed them :)

So, stepping down as the former RA's President, I welcome the new members of the RA :)

Our last term was an abnormally long one. After we had hammered out the building blocks of Neualtenburg - both the legal ones (the Constitution, some of the procedures) and the "primmy" ones (the Fachwerks, the hundreds of textures...) - our main job last term was twofold:

- to make the move from Anzere to Neualtenburg's private sim
- to attract new citizens to sustain the monthly fees for the private sim

The first issue led us to a partial rebuild of Neualtenburg (it was a good pretext) and also to understand some limitations of how the Estate tools worked correctly. It also led to more public information on the Neualtenburg site. I call this mostly "putting down the infrastructure". We had a good "working prototype" in Anzere - but in our own private sim, we needed to get all the tiny details really operational. All our efforts concentrated on that.

The second one - attracting new citizens - was a necessity we couldn't afford to avoid. This also lead to much PR, done in the forums, but mostly in-world; it demanded catching people's attention (again) to what we were doing. It also meant having a group of people in Neualtenburg willing to greet eventual interested residents - and we have only to thank Sudane and Eugene for that job, later reinforced by several of the new citizens as well.

As a side issue, this also forced us to explore the complex way of "deeding parcels", through both an in-world mechanism (setting land to groups, writing deeds on notecards) as well as on the accounting procedures. The Office of the Treasurer was created, and Sudane has done that work brilliantly.

These were our major goals for the first term in Neualtenburg's private sim, and despite the big change - from a tier-based economy to a deed-based one - we managed to do quite well, as the Treasurer's recent reports have shown. We're now a good way towards reaching finantial break-even. Although the current finantial data does not show a budget for spending anything beyond the payment of the private sim, we have at least an inkling on how successfull the Neualtenburg Projekt can be, and what we need to do in order to achieve a positive monthly balance, and even start to repay the bonds (loans) that sustained us during our initial phase. This, of course, lies still in the future.

Although the City does not have yet much more to offer except nice buildings, the truth is, we have attracted many visitors. It's not a "ghost city" all the time; as a matter of fact, although I suspect we still don't have people around 24 hours a day, the truth is, we do attract spontaneous visitors, and there seems to be always someone around in the City. The Secret Tiny City was an excellent marketing stunt; before that, I believe that Aliasi Stonebender's Primtionary sessions have also encouraged a lot more people to come to visit us (as well as my regular events during the week and a few irregular ones). Some items, like the Chicken Hat offered for sale, have still contributed for visitors to come and pick it up (as well as furnishing some extra cash to the Treasury). Even the Casino seems to be used sporadically.

Altenburg - the old part of the town - was recently rebuilt by the Guild for our upcoming major event, the Expo 2005. This also attracted the attention of some visiting tourists, who are often interested in seeing how the City develops. The notion that Neualtenburg is still changing dynamically, and is not just a "landmark of the past" (which sadly happens often in Second Life), has perhaps underlined the idea that this is a great place to be.

As the new RA shows - a reinforcement of voting on the MPP - most of the new citizens have felt that it has been the work of several new citizens (affiliated with the MPP) that has brought "new life" in the city. For this work, I congratulate the new members of the RA. Also, I feel that several members of the MPP have done an outstanding work of explaining the Neualtenburg Projekt to the new citizens. This is a tiring and demanding job, which has been done very successfully over the past weeks, to the point that they deservedly won more votes :)

Although the task of moving to a private sim and managing the finantials successfully was a difficult one - one which we overcame - the new RA has many more challenges to deal with, and this time the focus will be, once more, political in nature. Clarification of the power equation in Neualtenburg will certainly need a change in the Constitution. The relationship between the City and the use of its buildings will need, once and for all, to be decided. The MPP's platform has given deep thought on how the City public structures should be used and a guideline on how to measure the success of the use of several of those structures. Transferring the success of the City to the private groups that will operate the public structures is, thus, a major area for the new RA to legislate. This will empower many citizens to be actively responsible for managing parts of the City, within the boundaries defined by the bills passed by the RA. Implementing this strategy successfully will be at the core of the new RA's regular meetings.

The RA will certainly also address the budget and the relationship of the Treasury with the remaining branches. Money issues are always a difficult area to deal with. Neualtenburg in Anzere was, to a degree, more "peaceful" since we didn't feel the pressure of having to pay our bills every month, and we could concentrate on doing creative things instead. The private sim, however, reminds each and every citizen that if we don't have enough money to pay to Linden Lab, Neualtenburg will definitely be closed, without appeal. This Sword of Damocles will now forever pend over our heads. Thus, an efficient way to deal with the money equation is definitely a job for the RA. We have a very transparent accountancy system in place, but several issues have to be dealt with, and I foresee the challenges that will carry us on in the forthcoming months.

I believe that this new term will be one of consolidation. We have already seen how much the citizens care about the City - 100% voting turnout must mean something (compared to something like 30% on the last elections). This also means that the attention will be focused on the RA's job. This time, people expect from the RA that it provides solutions and answers to what has always been a little vague and poorly discussed. This time, the RA will build its work on the foundations that it has recieved as a legacy - a sim, a city, a group of citizens, several guidelines - and make the best of it to bring Neualtenburg to the point we all wish to see the City: finantially sound, politically stable, with a friendly environment that allows us to be creative with the freedom we like to have, a meeting place of similar-minded individuals - and, of course, the ultimate wish: showing that a sim governed by its citizens actually works.

We should not forget the landmark we have set into this virtual world. Already Neualtenburg is one of the longest-lived projects in Second Life - we have been in existence for almost a year. It's easy to let a project simply "exist" in SL, but be void of people and content - many projects are far older than Neualtenburg and are still around, and sometimes people still visit them, or tinker with the buildings a bit. Neualtenburg, however, is different. For better or for worse, it has been in perpetual evolution. It has germinated as an idea, grown to a project, and continued to evolve adapting to change - of conditions (from a tier-based economy to a deed-based one) and people (less than a third of the citizens have been here from the start). To succeed, and to fullfill the purpose of the Neualtenburg Projekt, we have a duty to show that we can adapt to circunstances and work out solutions and compromises. We always claimed that the strongest feature of a government-managed community was the ability to adapt, the willingness to change direction when a majority of citizens demanded that change, to deal with the unexpected, to live beyond the original group's interest in mantaining the project. Neualtenburg, not surprisingly, is a project made of people.

I trust that the new RA will not only keep that ultimate objective in sight, but that it will successfully lead the City of Neualtenburg towards its next phase, adapting once again to the circunstances, and designing guidelines to cope with change.

I wish all members of the RA - old and new alike - a good luck and an excellent new term!

- Gwyneth Llewelyn, former RA President
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
switcheroo
08-08-2005 12:20
From: Gwyneth Llewelyn
Well, technically, yes, as a party was listed in the election which did not qualify according to the last RA meeting before the elections. Notice that none of the people present at that RA meeting knew or were informed that a third "bogus" party would be included in the voting procedures. We were only informed afterwards....

Hello :)

I am using my reply to this post as a sort of leaping off point for a seperate discussion.

Please look for two related discussions. "Powers of the SC" and "Function of the Guild System"

:)
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
08-08-2005 12:30
From: Dianne Mechanique


Please look for two related discussions. "Powers of the SC" and "Function of the Guild System"



Links! Links!
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Sudane Erato
Grump
Join date: 14 Nov 2004
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08-08-2005 12:40
Powers of the SC
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Function of the Guild System
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