How about some actual discussion on that referendum amendment, eh?

I think you mistook my personal power for the power of the SC.

Also, you don't seem like SC material. Through what mechanism did you achieve that post?

~Ulrika~

I'm a relatively new citizen, but I for one would welcome the return of Ulrika to the NB citizenry. Despite the fact that I'm a staunch political opponent, we cannot overlook all that she has built as a founder and master artisan.

If it goes through, welcome back into the fold. (seriously)

1 prim per meter. Supply your own vendor with the appropriate settings to give 10% commission.

Wow. It's like that girl who gave a flower to Frankenstein. *snif*

~Ulrika~

Aw, to think you once called me "bright"! You must've been referring to all the bling I wear.


I can't tell you, but it involved a piece of chocolate, a box, a stick, and some string.

We'll see how the upcoming IP hearing plays out first.

~Ulrika~

ROTFLMAO

I'm just being "abrasive".

~Ulrika~

Things are becoming a little clearer now. I wasn't aware of the history. I can see how the prospect of 'taking Ulrika on' would be less than appealing!

But... the institutions of a democratic republic need to be strong enough to stand regardless of who holds what office and able to endure the passing from one administration to another and the departure of the founding citizens. My concern is that in reacting to alleged abuse of power by a previous leading citizen, your proposals put the democratic republic of Neualtenburg at risk.

In commenting on my alternative proposal Gwyn was broadly supportive. She went on to say:



Yes, though I accept this is not entirely satisfactory. The point is that there is a mechanism for dealing with this situation without the need for a constitutional amendment that fundamentally upsets the balance between the three branches. I think this whole question needs further considered thought. It appeared to an interested outsider that you guys were seeking to move on this at the speed of light!

BTW, what happens next? I see the RA is meeting tomorrow. Will this amendment be considered then? And would a nosey foreigner be welcome? I can sit quietly and promise only to speak if spoken to if that would help!

This has been on the table in some form for at least two weeks. I think it's been discussed for longer, if you look through the RA transcripts. Remember, time moves faster in SL

I would have lumped you in as one of the commerce students. You are the head of the chamber of commerce, no? In all seriousness I'll message you offline, I need to setup a corporation.

Thanks!

I think Sudane has been handling these.

I am an outsider to this project, but I have been fascinated by the "dialog" that has been going on in the Neualtenburg forums. Not that my two cents are of any interest to anyone and realizing my comments will probably be removed since I'm not a citizen, I just thought I'd throw caution to the wind and post:

1) It intrigues me that there has been a lot of foot stomping about ensuring the voices of the minorities be heard, yet, indeed, I've seen voices of dissent silenced by way of their posts being removed.

2) This whole thing seems to be a vanity project, not really an exercise in experimental government. The founding mothers seem unwilling or unable to let their baby grow, evolve, stretch, make mistakes, learn, improve, revert, stumble.

3) I can't imagine being involved with this drama on a daily basis -- a whole darn lot of stress in one's leisure time. The laundry aired here certainly doesn't make one interested in residency in this community -- I wouldn't even care to visit the darned place. The snarkiness and mean spirited comments I've read here must hang thick in the atmosphere of your village.

Like I said, just an outsider's thoughts.

I said as much. It is a political observation and I witnessed it so it's not a fairy tale. It alludes to my opinion of why you were such a poor ineffectual leader and what led to your ouster. Does it speak to the issue of this thread? No.

I believe these things about you Ulrika:

1)You are intelligent, gifted, creative and an excellent debater. I have asked the RA to commemorate you with permanent statues, none were willing. I have also welcomed you as a potential citizen, for which you mocked me. Were the old constitution in place I'd recommend you for citizenship despite everything.

2)You want to see your founding documents essentially unaltered and interpreted by the SC according to your intentions when you drafted them.

3)You want the SDF to oust the DPU and you want to rule NB as you did before. I actually believe most of what you are posting to be politically motivated. I expect a beer hall putsch or an election followed by a fairly totalitarian regime, as before.

I believe you are an excellent builder, thinker and revolutionary. I also believe at this point in NB's history that Claude is a far more effective leader.

Back to the point, yes the RA should at some point be able override the veto. Why? Because that's how it works in RL democracies, so don't reinvent the wheel. I'm tired of hearing "you're not qualified, you're not SC material" from an outsider. You know nothing of NB, you're not even a citizen.

It all smacks of elitism and the electoral college saving the country from the dim masses.

I did not mock you. I actually thought it was a kind gesture and was characterizing myself as the unloved monster with an angry mob in pursuit who receives a single act of kindness. I'm sorry you misunderstood it and reacted by joining that mob.

You work best you don't tell people what they're thinking. Personally, I feel the document needs a huge amount of work. (No one has even mentioned the vestigal third branch that barely is discussed in these debates.)

Again you do best when you don't tell people what they're thinking -- that and when you get your facts straight. You see, I was never the head of the RA.

And this is where I left four months ago. Everything devolves into personal attacks. No hearings are ever held. The SC vanishes and the forums go wild. It's just a darn shame. It's an ad-hoc forum-based government that functions through personal insult.

~Ulrika~

I like it! Apply to all situations where reason just won't do:

Pecan pie should be served. Why? Because that's how it works in RL so don't reinvent the wheel.

~Ulrika~

I wondered when the 'stfu, you're not even a citizen' post would come. It's taken longer than I expected!



Actually it's about separation of powers and checks and balances to prevent one governmental institution from dominating the others. Would you suggest that the US Supreme Court should be elected by the people? After all, if it's good enough for the House of Representatives and the Senate it must be the best choice for the judiciary too? Surely anything less is elitism, shouldn't the dim masses be able to elect their own judges?

We do not have the intellectual capacity of all the constitutional crafters who came before us combined. It is important to debate and understand the inner workings when improving a constitution. That said, we have put the cart before the horse.

You and I shouldn't debate how to best improve the horse buggy, we should debate how to improve the car. There are better RL constitutions already written with excellent track records. They usually allow the elected branch a mechanism for changing the constitution.

We can academically debate that to death without making headway. Our ancestors have already done so and consensus is clear. So the real question is what works better in SL? The old NB way (see your previous reign) or a more modern mechanism which more closely resembles existing RL democratic constitutions?

Pragmatism and programming 101: "Don't reinvent the wheel. It takes too much time and you're not that smart. Instead, improve the wheel and invent the widget."

The average citizen outside the SC and Frank Larber frankly don't care a whit about this particular thread topic. What they care about is a government that works and that progress (citizenship, art, architecture, education and commerce) is made.

And I like SL pecan pie because I like it in RL. Does NB remind you of a RL location? How about its institutions?

It is unfortunate that recent events have made you think that your posts will be deleted. Now that our rogue moderatore has been removed from the moderator's list, I'm hoping post deletion will happen much more rarely, if at all.


Come visit the sim, and see for yourself! The people are generally friendly and happy to talk to you.Though recent events have increased the drama in nburg, I hope it's temporary.

People are getting upset so the discussion is devolving. I applaud you for being able to calmly and rationally present your brilliant arguments. You are a rare find.

~Ulrika~

It's Kevn's alt silly goose. He's playing you like a banjo.

~Ulrika~

Uh, excuse me, I believe you are referring to my post? I can assure you I am not Kevn's alt. I actually couldn't believe I was standing up for Kevn, as he drives me completely batty in some other threads. You might want to look up my post history -- I've actually responded to Kevn on occasion, if that helps secure my identity.

I was getting ready to thank Flyingroc for the gracious welcome to this little community... might tuck my passport back in the drawer for now.

I didn't say that. If Kofi-Annan held a press conference and said, "George Bush is not qualified to hold a US Gov't post" what do you think the US public reaction would be? Mind your own beeswax comes to mind. Honestly I wish she would stfu citizen or no, but we all have freedom of speech.

I in no way implied that the SC should be elected. I took offense at a foreigner, who doesn't understand our culture, stating flat out that our RA leader and our supreme court members weren't qualified to fulfill their duties. I find that arrogant, elitist and offensive.

I hurts NB<->Zugzugia relations. But if she becomes a citizen, and I hope she does, I won't be offended by remarks such as those.

Relax! This is temporary. The city is a fine place to visit with wonderful folks. I'm not actually a citizen, I'm just a monster with bolts in my neck who is terrorizing the countryside at the moment.

~Ulrika~

wild applause?