Why is Ulrika still an officer of the group?

I noticed Ulrika in an officer in the group charged with building for N'burg.

There is a script in town collecting for beautification of N'burg and she is getting paid from those donations. I doubt she will step down, but can't LL remover her, or maybe it's time to create a new group....

Ulrika is an officer of The Neualtenburg Projekt. Which is a seperate entity from the City.
The Neualtenburg Projekt predates the City of Neualtenburg and has it's own agenda.

Ulrika and I founded the Projekt --and I would no more remove her from the Group then cut off my arm.

If she is still part of Raumnutz, however, that is an overight which the founder of Raumnutz needs to attend to. I dont believe she is still part of Raumnutz.

I'm the founder of that as well.

However, let's put this discussion on hold right now. I'm working with Claude right now on a resolution for all of this, so this discussion could be moot shortly. I'll keep you informed.

~Ulrika~

Thank you for the way in which you handled this.

I think the easiest resolution would be to create new groups. I'd be happy to pay for the new group fees.

That would ignore the equitable solution currently being worked out. Changing groups does nothing to mend fences. Unless, of course you feel that mending fences is a bad idea.

It's better to mend fences and have Ulrika and Claude come to an agreement that works.

Thats what I just said, silly man.

Kendra, what exactly is the difference between the two groups? I'd be interested in finding out what differentiates them.

Quick thought-experiment:

This forum is the "Neualtenburg Projekt" forum.

The "Neualtenburg Projekt" is (claimed as) separate from the sim/city of Neualtenburg.

If this is true, it's possible that:
-This forum may not be claimed as the legal domain (and control) of the City of Neualtenburg.
-Ulrika committed no crimes against the City of Neualtenburg by deleting posts within this forum, but may arguably have offended against the policies and procedures of the "Neualtenburg Projekt" group.
-Any officers of the "Neualtenburg Project" in-world group (including Ulrika) have a valid claim to moderating rights within this forum, regardless of their current technical ability to do so.


If the city of N'burg and the "Neualtenburg Projekt" are determined to be synonymous or closely related, I think it'd make sense to remove a non-citizen from the N'burg Projekt group, or at least from an officer position.

Hot damn, I'm thinking I should apply for citizenship, if for no other reason than to hang a shingle advertising my legal services. Sadly, I think that after Ulrika settles and leaves, the demand for lawyers will drop off quite sharply.

I was going to ask that myself. I don't know what the difference is between the projeckt and the city. Your post makes perfect sense.

The Neualtenburg Projekt is a group that explores the results of Government in Virtual Worlds. It was with that in mind that The City of Neualtenburg was concieved. The Snow Sim contest gave us our vehicle to begin.

Your read of the situation is pretty much my own read. Which is why I'm still a moderator on this forum. The City of Neualtenburg is part of the Projekt --but is not the totality of the Projekt.

As Ulrika's presence in SL has wained, my own plans for what the future of the Projekt hold waxes, though Ulrika will always be as much a part of it as she wishes.

The Projekt, therefore, is not so much a City as it is a proactive Think Tank.

Ulrika's actions of acting as a moderator on this forum are along the lines of overstepping bounds she previously agreed to. I myself am acting as an Observing Moderator , and not an active Moderator as the members of The City's SC are.

It's a role I agreed to fill, and try not to step over those bounds, Just as I am not interested in exerting undo influence in the procedural day to days of the City, but instead attempt to behave as any other citizen. It's tough being both an Observer from the Projekt and a participant of the City, but I do hope I manage somewhat well.

This an aspect of The Projekt that often gets lost, and the frequent cause of misunderstandings between The City and Ulrika or myself.

My view is that undo influence is counter-productive to the Projekt's interests of observation and notation.

If you ever read Marvel Comics --I am the Watcher.

The Watchers' role is to observe and never interfere.

That's very interesting. So the Projekt is a think tank on democratic government in virtual worlds. The City is a subset of the Projekt and serves partially as an experiment. Right?

That's very interesting. So the Projekt is a think tank on democratic government in virtual worlds. The City is a subset of the Projekt and serves partially as an experiment. Right?

Maybe we should split into two forums then. Projekt vs. City. What do you think?

I think a bomb has just been dropped, at any rate. I don't think Kevn quite expected this to take such an interesting turn when he first asked about Ulrika's continued officer rank in the "Neualtenburg Projekt" group.

The proper result would seem to be either an invalidation of the trial/hearing/whatever, since the SC would be overreaching in claiming jurisdiction on this forum, or a fight for the "rights" to Neualtenburg's brand-identity.

I'm re-reading through the transcript of the hearing, but I don't see as yet a clear argument presented by Ulrika or Kendra to this effect: "Neualtenburg the *city* is only one facet of the Neualtenburg Project, and the *Project* ultimately gets to decide what goes on in this forum. That includes officers, that includes Ulrika". Maybe it's further along, but DAMN it's a long transcript, I haven't finished it yet.

If a battle ensues between the City of Neualtenburg and the Neualtenburg Project, then sweet jebus this is the city's Next Big Headache.

It could be argued that the Neualtenburg Project was negligent in protecting any trademarks or names that it "owned", because:
-They created one visible project, no others
-*EDITED IN* The group's name was "Neualtenburg Project". Their major work involved a *project*, and that project's name was *Neualtenburg*. How's that for a headache? How was anyone, including the members of Neualtenburg, supposed to figure out that they were part of a larger organization?
-The project was given the same name, "Neualtenburg" as the group itself.
-The Neualtenburg Project's forum is monolithic; it doesn't represent the heirarchy that is claimed to exist (Neualtenburg Project, and within it, the City of Neualtenburg.
-The only sticky at the top of the forum relates to the City of Neualtenburg. No discussion exists which puts it in the context of being a subset of a larger project (exept to mention that it is a subset of SecondLife). If such discussion exists, it seems to be buried pretty deeply.
-When Ulrika herself enacted her moderator abilities, she included the quote: "Edited to remove a snarky post by Sudane and to remind the SC to remove my name from the list of forum moderators". This could be construed as a formal recognition that they had the right and the power to do so.
-Ulrika's testimony as to why she removed the post contained the following: "Why did I choose to remove this post? Because it was off topic, rude, and cruel and I didn't want to look at it." She did not make any arguments as to the effect of: "You have no place questioning my moderation of that forum. Your city exists as one facet of the project which I run. Moderation of my project's forum is my prerogative" If this argument was made, it was not presented as part of the hearing transcript.

Essentially, the officers of the Neualtenburg Project have, deliberately or otherwise, allowed their group's identity to become so intertwined and confused with the City of Neualtenburg, that they have possibly lost claim to the name "Neualtenburg" and this forum.

Ulrika has possibly one trump card in all of this, however: I believe I remember reading that she maintains the domain name for Neualtenburg, and she may also have registered the name as a protected trademark. If so, this could easily turn nasty, and multiple entitities have a potential stake in all this:

-The city of Neualtenburg
-The Neualtenburg Project
-(The RL person who operates) Ulrika Zugzwang
-Linden Labs
-others???

I would recommend that Claude consider this very, very carefully as he negotiates with Ulrika. Any settlement that does not leave the City of Neualtenburg unquestionably clear of Ulrika is of dubius value to them.

On a positive note, the forecast for the barrister profession in Neualtenburg is currently "74 degrees, sunny, with a 65% chance of litigations"

*goes off to knit a powdered wig*

Added to the above:

I'm not suggesting that the Neualtenburg Project would be dissolved, but rather that the City of Neualtenburg might be in a position to stage a corporate coup d'etat. They may be able to seize control of the "Neualtenburg Projekt" with the claim that the two are one and the same. If, indeed, they are separate. I'm not sure that any of this has been proven to any satisfaction, which is why I think a battle for the brand-name of Neualtenburg is going to happen.

I don't interfere.

That's one way to look at it. If you look back at the early history of the Projekt you'ld see it all written down. It's very transparent.

Gullwing, you are a wonk's wonk. You should become a citizen and open up shop with or beside Diderot. Kendra, do you or Ulrika lay claim to the name "Neualtenburg" as a trademark, or a copyrighted phrase? Just curious.

Gull is blowing this out of proportion. I'm simply stating that the Projekt predates the formation of the City. This isn't an issue of trademark infrinngement because I consider the City part of the Projekt --but not the whole part. My intent is soley to continue the Projekt for observational reasons. The Projekt ends for me when I determine that Neualtenburg The City has been either a success or a failure.

If it suceeds then it flies on its power. If it fails --onward and upward with plenty of data as to where it might have gone wrong.

I'm quite determined to help with success of The City. I want to make that clear.

Im only stating that Ulrika's involvement in the Projekt is still valid to me, even though she is no longer part of The City. Is that clearer?

Sure, and while you can't directly speak for Ulrika, what you're saying is that there's no IP tied to the name "Neualtenburg". We don't have to go around and change everything to "Claudenburg". That's a relief.

I do. It's been copyrighted under my name since the inception of the project on my website. However, I'm in negotiations to transfer everything to the city. Let's give Claude time to do his work.

~Ulrika~

I didn't say that at all. But let Claude and Ulrika hash this out.

and Kendrastad is much more catchy anyways.

Well that much should have been obvious to anyone who ever visited your webpage.

Not like the Watcher doesn't.