shameful feet & nice sculpty shoes?

But possible that they aren still unable to redesign the avatars' modifying method, in order to have a better shaping overall for feet? What's the purpose of providing for even the tuning for an arching feet, if the feet won't fit any decent externally designed shoe, either sculptie or not? And what's the purpose of providing these feet with "heels", if the user will never wear default flesh heels, and, when planning to build shoes by themeselves, will be forced to use invisiprims in order to "hide" that mess?

It seems that the labs got no idea of how a human foot arches.... I designed a pair of pumps for my wife, which was done with sculpties, from a RL pair of pumps; besides any eventual issues with sculpties, they are perfect, modestly (I'm a 3d modeler, btw), but obviously it happened that, when imported in SL, the shoes wasn't fitting at all on the feet (albeit the shape was the pointest and highest); a week working on it, just to see that it won't fit?????? Stretching & pitchin? (you know; the labs also make the importing of external stuff as being off scale: so, e. g. I had to reshape many times the heel, 'cause it was much larger than sole and outsole..... with all it involves about fitting it's head below the sole's base DAMN!!!!!!!!)

Due LL don't allow to export any part of the avatar outside of SL (I understand 'em, it's a c/right issue; but at least they must allow the content providers some means in order to get rid of such absurd problems!!!), I tried to use the models which could be found on avatardatabank to have a shape upon which to build an overally fitting shoe; well, besides that in that databank there isn't the 0-point heeled shape, I dropped the idea, 'cause the shoe got badly deformed, if built upon the shape of such feet; like a potato with a stick....

(PS: a sculptie invisiprim, wrapping the shoe as a "cage", will work anyway, and will sport less "invisible" surface)

Once upon a time the mesh shoes were all we had. Anyway, what about including an anim ao to raise the av up on her toes?

Indeed why doesn't an enterprising animator do a "high heel" ao? It would be dead easy (I could do it myself so you know it's got to be easy ;-D but I don't wear heels).

There is one out there...now I have to try to remember which pair of shoes I have that it is in....

Eight years has passed, so far. I guess that meshes and morphs must be updated at least every 2 years; unless they were too lazy, or money were the only thing they covet for.

The real problem isn't how much the feet raises, but the final overall shape; it seems that the final morph of the middle foot was projected much wider than a realistic heeled shoe might be (and, on the contrary, the point is very thin and thight), so it deforms badly. And let's drop the unrequired, ugly "talon", formed by a chaotic bunching of the avatar's heel...
It is so hard, to revise the avie model, and tune the width of the feet? I guess that today technology can provide better morphing; or at least, they could look at a real feet, in order to get an idea...

Here it is a pic, to see what I mean.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47098504iu2.jpg

All this is absurd, for an enterprise who plans many details in her own products, but misses the most elementar ones, so that we are forced to invent sloppy expedients like "invisiprims", in order to cover for such grotesque faults. If you may think that's a "trascurable" detail, well, you hadn't to think for heels.
But surely they were very in a hurry, when they planned that, as I'm sure that users' laments & suggestions always fall mostly in void. They seldom read their own forum, as they don't allow any direct contact by users (we are, in facts, principally customers.....): 'cause they are "very busy people".


"technical staff" = mailto VOID!!!!!!!!!!!! .......

NOW "dispatch" THIS! vv

_,i,,

if they update the avatar mesh now it will break many existing products
that were made to work at the time

Here is my 2 cents idea, which should work smoothly:

Add some more shape keys for the feet, so the the size of the heel, the width, height, foot angle, etc... can be better tuned to reflect "reality". The default values of the new shape keys would make the avatar foot looking like it looks as of today. In first place it would be sufficient to be able to control the heel height independently from the heel shape, so that a designer could get the foot into the correct position for high heels, while no heel is actually created on the shoe base. But having independent shape keys for the foot width, length, etc. should not break anything existing but allow a whole lot of options for beautification of feet and shoes...

After such new shape keys have been introduced, Designers would then start developing new shoes and providing the new shoe base as needed for their NEW work.

So the pros get their new feet, the cons keep their old style...
And the good designers would create new shoe bases for their existing models with less alpha-0 prims...

Oh, and if someone would be able to fix the alpha texture bug, that at least would already help very much for the poor shoe designers in SL

as i said, just my 2 cents here

This enters within the meaning of "they had to keep 'em updated with frequency"; and due this didn't happened, the comma for this is "they are mostly lazy".
I think that, as the meshes get updated, also the product will; otherwise, the results will be stagnation.


The core problem isn't realism, but adaptability. When we were forced to work blindly outiside from SL, without having even a offline mesh in order to use it as a 3d canvas, any efforts would be frustrating. If they had done that, we had had both realism and a correct way to operate in order to get the most even from a limited system (but currently it is almost impossible). For example, each time I open the avatars' uv to paint 'em, I wonder how this could be meant as a ergonomic method of mapping; this says it long as for how the whole was conceived.
As for the rest, I surely agree with you. Hope that someone will listen. But specially that LL will put hand to the various issues that the system is facing gradually (it is at least 4 years that the whole isn't updated...). As for me, I think that currently I'll dismiss to produce anything, 'cause my creativity feels constrained by limits which have no sense to exist per se: let's see whether they'll update (within the next 2 years...). I'm sorry, but sincerely I'm not tailored for stretch-n-pitch & tga-upload over and over.

I think we'd be thrilled to have a new mesh - even if some things became unuseable. The assertion that feet are ugly will get no denials.

I agree, adaptibility is a major concern, but the goal is "beautification" (well not always...). But lets face it: in SL the avatars are designed to be "mostly human-like" and due to human nature much effort is put into self expression (and at least for many women beauty is a key value ))) And i must say, we got very creative with the limitations we have here in SL. How far would we get without them ?

Ok, i wouldn't complain if the avatar mesh would be free of constraints, so i could create my own creature in my extern "creature creator" (which is a complete new story and bears complete new concerns...) But keeping with the "evolution of the poser-race" for a while and getting new shape keys wouldn't be a bad option either. It is at least more user friendly for the "self made beautifier" and opens some options for the designer and i bet that it could be implemented in a short time without distracting the comunity

The uv-mesh is a very low level artefact in my eyes. Many people seem to use them as their starting position, but i think, they are made for machines, not for humans to work on... I can only speak for blender and point to http://dominodesigns.info/ and http://sourceforge.net/projects/primdotblender I am sure, there are many other external tools to be usefull in the area of avatar design...

Probably the "problem" is that these avies are becoming more and more "perfect", instead of remaining stylized (which probably had bypassed in our eyes the issue of more realism), as to adapt to a world which is still limited by several limits (poly count /server load for most). And it is just 'cause I (as many "esthetes" would think likely), would like to craft decent stuff, that I lament a system which seems abandoned to its own destiny. Creativity could be also an effect of reaction to the limits, I know: but if LL won't get our feedback about them, we'll remain forever within a system which isn't updated since YEARS. And, creativity will find anyway a way to get expressed by us; though, no more in terms of grotesque expedients, but of beautificating what is concretely usable. If LL had said "to make this, do it this way", instead of filling youtube with videos where Lindenboy is concerned of kidding with waving flags & uttering silly hysterical laughs, the story had been another.


My opinion is rather that between LL and some content creators there were kinda "unspoken cartel"... so that it seems that external creators wouldn't be kept aknowledged of how things should be done in order to be decently compliant. Anyway they probably avoid the upload of external meshes mostly in order to keep polycount low, and to keep compliance with what the system is able to carry; but I guess that the "cartel" is an added motivation.


We may try to justify the uv maop as LL devised it; though, when I look at how the arms, for example, was layed on the upper uv, it's stuff for a despered scream. And what's about the feet uv? Well, let's drop that.. not even a spherical texture could cover that sh*t....

I doubt it.

It would improve things immeasurably I think if the template just had the various pieces all to the same scale and if the sliders in appearance went further (as in: set feet to a negative value and feet would disappear entirely leaving avatar legs ending in a sharp bone, or set eyelashes to 0 and have no eyelash mesh at all.).

They could do it like they did when they updated prims: add a flag on the "shape" asset that says whether the old or the new mesh is in use (or have a new "new shape" asset type that worked the same way).

When you go into "shape" in the appearance editor, there would be (for a while) a checkbox allowing you to select the old or the new mesh. After (say) 18 months they would drop the checkbox but still allow you to edit "old mesh" shapes if you had them. After another 18 months "old mesh" shapes would effectively become "no mod" except by converting them to "new mesh" shapes.

Yes - I suspect that that would be a good kind of changeover because as soon as people got their hands on a new mesh they'd discover they would not like to change back even for an outfit or skin they liked - but no one would feel pushed.

Well.... after many trials (thanks for having inverted the coords axis, LL......), I finally took over the shoe, just to leave myself the curiosity, and..... someone knows why they appear suspended from the floor? (the invisiprim is a sculptie as the rest; I controled, it wraps the sole below by some pixels, though it doesn't touches the ground; my wife's like hovering)

bump

bah!

In return for a better avatar mesh, LL could break every single item of clothing hair shoes skins whatever I have. Personally I be happy to pay this price willingly. They can have my vehicles and my furniture to if they want. I give them all my lindens dollars as well if I could.

I've asked whether someone might know why the shoes doesn't touch the ground, but seem hovering when worn........ PLIZ

Could you post a picture? Can you edit the shoe down?

Yes I can edit it (do you mean if I can edit parts? Obviously, they are all linked, and the last part that was linked is the sole); I specified, if it may help, that the invisiprim is made with a sculptie, and that it wraps the shoe also below the sole, by some pixels (indded, when I did it, its bottom was aligned with the vertices of the sole; but as we know, sculpties are keen to warp and to bulge, so even aligned vertices could bulge; thanks also for this, LL!). As far as I know, I saw many shoes around, having the same prob.

pic

It's the animation or mesh shoe setting that sets the avatar height. You'd think your wife could just adjust her shoe mesh.

Try taking the invisiprim off and seeing where the foot is. If you need the avatar lower you can use an animation.

All attachments are phantom.

Nice shoe That's a big gap - no wonder you're annoyed.

Well, I gave the pumps also to another girl, and moreover I worn 'em myself (!) :- ( 'cause I had to pitch 'em (I was unable to adjuste 'em when worn by my wife, wearing a female shape; though the problem persisted.
But anyway, should we pitch the overall avatar height?

Does this happen on ground? Have you tried it on different floors in case there's something weird about the floor? Try it using a plain box-shaped invisiprim for experimental purposes.

Do the shoes include a "tiptoe" animation? That animation may need adjustment for your avatar height.

in any floor, the plant of hers feet doesn't touch the ground, either with highheeled base, or with flat plant, or lowering the height... with flat plant, anyway, the plant was much near to the ground.
though she doesn't have any tiptoe anim in hers ao; she toggled hers ao, but nothing changed. perhaps the prob could be in other dimensions of hers body?