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Federal Trade Commission

Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-28-2008 15:02
I suggest that everyone who will get affected by the Linden Lab's policy change on open sims file a complaint at the Federal Trade Commission who is there to protect American Consumers. What Linden Lab's are doing at this moment is unlawful (in RL) in many states.
So people.. file in the complaints.. it will work!
Michelle Thurston
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 208
10-28-2008 15:07
What law are they violating?
Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-28-2008 15:09
that differs per state, the best way is to check FTC's website
Michelle Thurston
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 208
10-28-2008 15:10
I'll take an example from any state. Your state will do, since you seem sure enough to post a thread accusing them of breaking the law. Just curious.
Cummere Mayo
Registered User
Join date: 5 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
10-28-2008 15:15
a few points of the fair standards act, arguably defrauding the consumers, failure to provide services.... to name a few...
thegrimmling Snook
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 35
10-28-2008 15:21
File complaints with the Better Business Bureau too
Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-28-2008 15:22
As I live in the Netherlands, for the commercial activities the Linden Labs is active for in the area of the European Union the directive Unfair Commercial Practices (Directive 2005/29/EC ) is leading.
With the ICPEN cooperation programme in which the US is also a member State, other ICPEN members can enforce to take care of consumer protection. Althugh I don't know which exact state has which law in the US I know that there are laws existing because the FTC have a close relationship with ICPEN.
Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-29-2008 09:39
Today i asked at work (Dutch Consumer Authority) possibly there is an infringment here.. so it's worth taking a look at the site of the FTC!
Kerik Rau
Registered User
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 54
10-29-2008 09:56
The closest thing I could find in the state of California (which is where LL main office is) is the Business and Professions Code:

leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=17001-18000&file=17500-17509

Basically it covers bait and switch and other unsavory business practices. However I don't know how well it applies against the rate increase on a service. Since the ToS has provisions against price changes it will be a matter of the judge marking it as unethical in the case of such a dramatic maintenance increase after a buy in.
Rosie Barthelmess
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2007
Posts: 545
10-29-2008 09:59
People in the US have already contacted the FTC with the information about this and have had it confirmed by the FTC that claims about this appear to be valid.

http://homeless.inworld.sl/2008/10/ftc-allegation-of-fraud-a-valid-complaint/

But any time you feel you've been defrauded you are within your rights to investigate your own resources for recourse.
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
10-29-2008 10:25
From: Rosie Barthelmess
People in the US have already contacted the FTC with the information about this and have had it confirmed by the FTC that claims about this appear to be valid.

http://homeless.inworld.sl/2008/10/ftc-allegation-of-fraud-a-valid-complaint/

But any time you feel you've been defrauded you are within your rights to investigate your own resources for recourse.

Damnit, damnit, damnit! I knew I should have sued every oil company earlier this year, when gas prices were going out of control.

There's the SL-65 I'd really like but Mercedes charges way too much for it, IMO. Can I sue them here or do I need to move to Germany?
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
Inconceivable
10-29-2008 11:01
Yes, it's ostensibly a pay-for-play service. Yes, we agree to the Terms of Service each time we log in.

No, the Terms of Service agreement of any service does not trump consumer protection laws. You may not be forced to acquiesce to the suspension of your legal rights under state or United States contract law.

Linden Lab has a real, significant problem on their hands this time.
Felix Oxide
Registered User
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 655
10-29-2008 11:04
From: Kalel Venkman
Yes, it's ostensibly a pay-for-play service. Yes, we agree to the Terms of Service each time we log in.

No, the Terms of Service agreement of any service does not trump consumer protection laws. You may not be forced to acquiesce to the suspension of your legal rights under state or United States contract law.

Linden Lab has a real, significant problem on their hands this time.


The price of eggs have gone up almost 30% in my area lately. Do I get consumer protections for this?
Ee Maculate
Owner of Fourmile Castle
Join date: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 919
10-29-2008 11:09
From: Kalel Venkman
Yes, it's ostensibly a pay-for-play service. Yes, we agree to the Terms of Service each time we log in.

No, the Terms of Service agreement of any service does not trump consumer protection laws. You may not be forced to acquiesce to the suspension of your legal rights under state or United States contract law.

Linden Lab has a real, significant problem on their hands this time.


I find it very hard to believe that a company earning as much as LL does not have very well paid lawyers checking decisions like this.
Rabbit Ayres
Registered User
Join date: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1
Bad Move
10-29-2008 11:24
While LL seems to have made a bad business decision I don't see how they have broken the law. They own the service and it is a pay as you go service. We don't have contracts.
Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-29-2008 11:39
Even if u accept the terms of service, in the case that they are against the law they are void.
They may rise the prices of open sims, but the fact thast they first charge fees for setting a sim up.. and then change the prices might be regarded as an unfair practice since u buy a sim because u want to have profits for it for a longer period of time then a few months. That makes this all unfair and therefore it might count as against the law. If the LL decides to change their policy like they have announced they have to pay back the set up fees, or else it seems like they will act unlawful by rising the fees.
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
10-29-2008 11:43
Legal advice sounds better when you type "you" instead of "u". Just FYI.
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Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-29-2008 11:50
Thanks for taking care of my grammar :) But anyway, I dont think that people have difficulties understandig me because of the u/you problem.
I'm just trying to show what kind of rights consumers have and that they have a good chance to make their point.. At least I'm sure for the ones who live in the European Union and because of my experince with the FTC I know that they also do care :)
Ohh and pls forgive me if my grammar mistakes upset u..
Meade Paravane
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Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
10-29-2008 11:53
From: Narod Spijkers
Thanks for taking care of my grammar :) But anyway, I dont think that people have difficulties understandig me because of the u/you problem.
I'm just trying to show what kind of rights consumers have and that they have a good chance to make their point.. At least I'm sure for the ones who live in the European Union and because of my experince with the FTC I know that they also do care :)
Ohh and pls forgive me if my grammar mistakes upset u..

Actually, it's the spelling, not the grammer.
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Wulfric Chevalier
Give me a Fish!!!!
Join date: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 947
10-29-2008 11:58
And where is your contract setting out how long the price would remain static?
Narod Spijkers
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-29-2008 11:59
Well.. in that case.. dont sue me for the spelling :) Just be happy that some foreigner is willing to give advice.
Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
10-29-2008 12:00
From: Ee Maculate
I find it very hard to believe that a company earning as much as LL does not have very well paid lawyers checking decisions like this.


The fact they do have very well paid lawyers, as well as senior management, far in excess of their performance or real value, is half of the problem.
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ArchTx Edo
Mystic/Artist/Architect
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,993
10-29-2008 12:04
From: Michelle Thurston
What law are they violating?


Fraud and Breach of Contract.

From the Wiki:

Breach of contract is a legal concept in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one or more of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance.

Fraud - In the broadest sense, a fraud is a deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and is also a civil law violation. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception" or something similar. Acts which may constitute criminal fraud include: Bait and Switch, False Advertising.

Fraud, in addition to being a criminal act, is also a type of civil law violation known as a tort. A tort is a civil wrong for which the law provides a remedy. A civil fraud typically involves the act of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person to that person's detriment. A "false representation" can take many forms, such as:
A false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made;
A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised.
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Narod Spijkers
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Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
10-29-2008 12:04
From: Wulfric Chevalier
And where is your contract setting out how long the price would remain static?


The European Union directive Unfair Commercial Practices is there for these kinds of problems. And as I have explained before in this thread.. with the link from ICPEN to the FTC there is a chance that the FTC might start aninvestigation for the LL practices.
Wulfric Chevalier
Give me a Fish!!!!
Join date: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 947
10-29-2008 12:14
From: Narod Spijkers
The European Union directive Unfair Commercial Practices is there for these kinds of problems. And as I have explained before in this thread.. with the link from ICPEN to the FTC there is a chance that the FTC might start aninvestigation for the LL practices.


Leaving aside the fact that it's a Directive and therefore only directly applicable if the individual Member State's measures intended to transpose it into domestic law fail to do so, I don't see anything in the Directive which is generally applicable to this situation.

For those who bought very recently Article 6(1)(d) might be applicable, but only from the date the decision to raise prices was taken.
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