"Talk" with M and Jack closed

So that was the "discussion", was it? After a handful of posts from Jack, none of which ever touched on the central points, and one non-committal "thank you for your input" note from M, they slam the door in our faces?

That's just plain insulting.

Several threads around the OS issue are now being closed without a comment. So either the moderators who do this don't realize what kind of message this behaviour is sending, or they don't care, or they are not allowed to communicate about it.

Anyway, further attempts to engage in a meaningful dialogue on the Openspace matter appear to be, well, immaterial.

Every politician who is not a totaly greenhorn knows that he has to use family metaphores in speeches and acting to hold a society together. For anthropological reasons is that the common way to communicate with a astronomic number of people. The first experience everyone made after being born, is the small group political zoology called family... - mother-child relation, friends, sisters, love-couples, small groups or clans. Tribes. All that. To be in kind of family relations is our basic mental inventory, forever embossed in our psychological basic inventory.. It is a phenomen wich is used by clever politicians and also CEOs of bigger companies, to transform this basic code in each of us, into their ideas to create illusions of being a nation or a customer base... Let's say so: the new CEO adopted a family. A nice one or a wild one in one. And a growing family. Or maybe a gang. Or if one like to name it different: a society. Or however one likes to name the phenomen. In case of sl, it is a real population. A car dealer can work different. He just sales cars. You buy one and bye bye. But here is the offer a community and kind of home and asylum. This is the point where the family metaphoric is recommended to be established. Sure, in light seen is this all a big fake, but it works for nations and it works for companies. People are easy to catch by their anthropological roots. But you can also lose all people, if you forget to catch them by their roots. Between matured people it is common to decode this family thing and transform it into a team thing. Keywords: growing together, or going under together. The biggest mistake one can make, is to enter such a platform, setting himself as kind of leader and to start with kind of punishments and slamming doors. This opens immediatly frontiers and creates walls. This status is now reached. They there, we here, a wall between both sides. The company holds their front line, we hold our frontline from that point on.

It will be difficult now, to catch us back. The company has forgotten how that thing works. We carry them, they carry us. If one side stops to take care is the game over.

Just to remind them on these basic things in life.

This would almost be funny, if it weren't so sad. When I think about all the conversations people are having trying to keep great things going and this, THIS!!!! is LLs response?! Just shutting down the thread. I truly despair.

We let our estate owner know today that after almost two years our sim will be disappearing. We are in only a few hours a month these days, but until now didn't mind underwriting other people enjoying the delights of SLNE and sailing in SL, as we so much enjoyed the sims other people created and helped support. SLNE is one of the most beautiful places I have been in either world. I encourage you all to enjoy it while it continues to exist - which, I think, may not be long. I hope I am wrong about that.

Lindens, you really messed up.

The thread did start to loose momentum towards the end, Arguments between posters could have been avoided or taken elsewhere .... Still no reason for it to be closed ... without even an announcement why ...

Its been clear for a while now that LL has changed , Introducing people like Mark Kingdon to a world that's hard for even residents to understand at times was a HUGE mistake , For him to see SL for what it is and understand it would be impossible .

Kingdon's task would have been to turn things around and he's sure done that , It's also clear now that we as residents don't exist in LL's plan for the future ... We have done our bit to build Second Life ... We are just in the way now .

LL want corporate business now , They want people to use SL as a world wide communication tool , A place for people in offices all over the world to be able to meet up in cyberspace .

All the beta testing , All the promotion , Blogging , Building and singing the praises of second life that we have done over the years has raised its profile in the business world ...Now LL don't need us ... They want the big buck's .

One day this will come back and bite them in the ass , I have gone form someone who loved SL and backed LL on some pretty dodgy changes to SL and hoped that it would be for the greater good of residents .... But this " Talk to the Hand " display that LL have pulled just makes myself and others feel used .

I can see nothing but bad PR for LL now , Corporate clients will not want to be associated with a firm that has a bad name for the worst customer care that i have ever witnessed.

My whole attitude towards SL and LL have changed , And not for the better , I'm passed the stage of living in hope that LL could turn this situation around for themself or us ...I recomend you guys do the same ... Get used to this kind of treatment from LL .... Or pack up and move on to another platform / game / hobbie .

I'm having to post with an ALT as i seem to be locked out of the forums with my main sim owning avie although i can still log into SL, but haven't even had the courtesy of an Email from LL saying I have been suspended etc. but i have posted in a couple threads saying my POV about here and other worlds. As Katt said



Seems like the ability to express oneself in SL is slowly going All feedback is good even if its not what they want to hear.

Thanks LL for listening to us

I don't know who your main av is or what you were writing here but, to be fair, promoting alternatives in a forum should not be done and would attract a quick ban in most forums.


Zee had the balls to admit that LL did it wrong, and that it was all their fault, and he was one of the decision makers. It doesn't change anything though, but at least he isn't blaming the OS owners for it as Jack and M are. It's a pity that Jack and M don't have the balls to face the users over it.

I think they've closed it because the discussion is over. That the discussion never happened in the first place is what makes it insulting.

Compare and contrast this with Zee's thread where he actively engaged with residents and then closed the discussion, without anyone really having a problem with that and you see clearly how to conduct a discussion.

Discussion Linden style: we dont care about your opinion

My awnser to that? Dont give up fight on its still time to the deathline

MAKE THEM CARE!

Zee went so far as to mentioned the possibility of grandfathering when he didn't need to. I doubt it will happen though, or there would be a ton of complains from people who had already got rid of their OSs on the strength of the announcements.

ok, LL simply close all the threads, pls.
you don't need to listen anymore to your 'residents'
make your business decisions without us as always.
this CFO admits mistakes over mistakes. I am not against admitting mistakes, but if its too many of them ooooooooooooo....
may be you've grown too fast and that why you can not put the things together to get a clear sight anymore.
this may break your neck.
don't get me wrong, I am amazed how much communication you really do, have not seen this very often, but may be thats just one aspect of your problem.
you don't want us to really participate in your decisions, so just say so, it's ok then.
or do you think customers are asked in such detail as you do if a car company wants to design a new car? Nooooooooooooooooooooo
on the other hand, would have been better for some car companies if they would have done so, hahahahaha
better send out some surveys to understand the needs and projections of your residents instead of letting them talk in blogs or threads all the time you have to read and hardly can analyze in a systemitical way.
your (LL) responses only increase the frustration about your behaviour as a company as you either do not respond or if you respond, most times we only hear blablabla. many of LL responses are simply not saying anything at all, sometimes not even between the lines. thats makes at least some of us even more angry as if you would say nothing.
and finally, these ignorant gestures to show your 'power' to shut down threads at any time YOU want. If there is nothing more to say, residents will recognize that and stop posting themselves by the time. I am aware that many posts are just repitions of things already said. so what? why not? It is still about concerned and/or passionate people who want to send you a message - hoping you listen.......... If you don't want to give your residents a forum to exchange their opinions, so just stop forums and stop blogs, but don't close them for discussion/exchange without a clear reason given and without having responded in a honest and CLEAR way before you closed them. THINK before you ACT!
During the last week, I lost so much fun in SL and addiciton to SL due to these communication and pricing fiasco although I am not concerned myself by OS issues that I don't need lag to see SL grey.
Some of your 'old' residents will vote with your feet, but no problem for LL because you bring in trillions of new residents by your 'new residents first hour experience' program who will then experience the same SL avatar career until they get as disappointed as the former ones. then launch another new residents program until these leave and so on and on and on (until you really have a competitor or some of them working well).
best regards,
P

I guess we know where we stand. Maybe they do not need the people that pay their salaries?

The talk is done. Unless the vast majority of OS owners and renters abandon the sims and dramatically tier down, Linden will see an increase in the cash revenue stream. Even if the customer rebellion is successful and Linden takes a huge hit, their arrogance won't allow them to admit their mistake, and they'll do what all the other corporations are doing now; they'll blame the general economy for their ills. Of course it was corporate malfeasance and greed that precipitated the economic crisis to begin with.

Um, where did the thread go to now?

/me is sadly unsurprised.

Phil - I asked twice about grandfathering. Of all the posts that Zee responded to, mine were not answered or addressed.

I'm already making my plans to handle my OS.

He did mention the possibility of considering it - in a reply to a post that didn't even mention it. But I wouldn't hold my breath any longer than is necessary, because they'd alienate people all over again, because some people have been getting rid of OS sims already on account of the two announcements.

Linden Lab opened themselves up to that when they got all giddy about cross-grid logins to non SL operated grids. They WANT for people to be able to enter other worlds through SL so why all the sudden they want to enforce not talking about those other worlds they previously felt where positive to their cause? Is it because they see those other grids now as competition instead of companions?

Where virtual worlds are failing is they seem to think everyone that owns a computer wants to be in one and they could feed off each other. Now they are figuring out this is not the case and few people that really play these worlds will pick and choose which grid they play on and it won't be all of them. Now they see other grids at competition and have to change their ways.

This is my theory anyway after 5 years of playing several different Virtual Worlds and watching them evolve.

Doh! Found it ... was looking in the wrong place on the forums.

will sulk now if they decide to grandfather. 2 OS already gone, another 4 being converted to a full, and 4 more on the way out. Would need help to reinstate these. We did wait for te 2nd announcement before moving when we realised LL were just not interested in keeping what the SL residents had created in so many places.

As a business owner myself (and an engineer), I've been trying to map out just what has been going on with the blog entries and concomitant treatmeant of the M. Linden thread in the forum. Here's the chain of events as I see it:

1. Jack, the land chief, comes out of nowhere on the blog with an announcement of a 66 percent price increase to his company's most popular product, a move that will negatively effect thousands of the company's most dedicated customers. No forewarning, not surveys, no investigation into users or customers needs, and vague and unsubstantiated charges of abuse. Done in a pretty breezy manner.

2. Storm of customer protest ensues.

3. Newly-minted CEO comes out with a second blog message, saying, not to worry, we'll stage this over time, but the price rise will still take place. Please discuss this in a special forum thread. A bit condescending.

4. CFO makes a few casual comments in the forum thread that answer specific questions and seem honest ("hey, I'm just the CFO here".

5. CEO makes another forum entry saying, thanks for all your entries, I appreciate the support, Jack the Land Chief will be summing this forum up with some answers.

6. Grand Poo-Bah of the company, Robin, jumps into the forum thread a few entries later, deus ex machina, and declares "this forum is closed." Nice entry, but sort of reminded me of McCarthy on the deck of the U.S.S. Missouri or Zeus casting lightning bolts down from Olympus. In a nice way.

7. Jack the Land Chief makes no appearance.

This is all, from a business management standpoint, incredibly bizzare behavior.

Analysis of all this could lead to many alternative scenarios. Here's my pet alternative: M. wanted to increase revenue, Jack popped of his intitial message without authorization, the CFO just kind of stumbled into it, Jack decides to bail out, but when the Founder and Grand Poo-Bah found out...he cut it off.

Bottom line: I think someone at LL has finally realized that this was a major mistake, and damage control has to begin immediately.

I doubt that LL sees OL as competition - even the most affected people here don't see it that way. And there's a big difference between discussing the emergence and development of other grids, something that's been happening for a long time in this forum, and positively encouraging people to abandon SL and go to other ones. I've no idea who Iain is or what he wrote in that regard, but I have to think it was more in the way of the latter rather than a simple discussion of emerging grids.

In post #303 in his thread (/352/14/292421/13.html), Zee wrote:-

That's where I remember it from, but I don't think anything will change.

I wouldn't say big difference. Many forums, as you say, don't allow talk of any kind about other games in any context because it isn't a big difference. The theory is any talk of other games will drive people to check those other games out. However I will agree the line thickens when they suggest they quit and go elsewhere.

If LL doesn't think the other one's are not competition I would hope they think twice. This is exactly what happened to the all mighty MSM chat and groups years ago. They made some critical errors that angered many of the users and it is what it is today. Hardly used and a money loser. Other less featured options where out there and the people flocked to them anyway. LL should be a little more careful of their moves.

I was infuriated when I saw the way LL has just closed the forum on the OS rate hike. We can see even more, how much LL cares about their clients. There have been many corporations who have taken this kind of route, and lets name all of them who did, and are still in business going strong.1. 2. 3. ?___________________________________ oh yeah, they all are out of business today.

Thanks for caring so much, LL