Win a Space in the Second Life Holiday Marketplace!

I was wondering this too. How many prims, etc. Also, will an owner be able to set this land to group (I know deeding is out, but if I want to share it with my land group, can I)?

Finally - can we at least see a photo or two of the layout?

First status messages where pushed off the main SL page.

And now it seems responses to "safe" postings as well.

But hey, let's give some land away for "free" since we seem to have all these servers not doing anything since people are dumping their open space sims. (Check out the land stats for Nov/Dec)

Really brilliant work.

If it wouldn't be for the fact that my premium account saves me about 2 bucks a month between stipend and *slightly* better L$ exchange rates I would have dumped that a long time ago too.

What bothers me is that there are too many unknowns. I don't know what the price for the land will be. But worse I have no idea what the traffic/sales potential is. Will the mall get enough promotion from LL? Do we have to pay who knows what crazy auction prices AND do all the marketing ourselves all with only 10 days before christmas?

The following is what would have interested me:

Have the shops at winterfaire venues to insure traffic. Have a juried competition to insure quality. Have the winners pay moderate set prices for their plots. And everyone wins. LL gets some revenue. Quality merchants get some sales. Winterfaire visitors see some hand picked quailty content they can buy.

Oh, I understand that. What confuses me is that time and time again we hear "We need to focus on customer service" and then they go and do something like this. THAT confuses me. Don't they understand what customer service is? Sometimes I wonder if, like Wal-Mart, they confuse customer service with adding bells and whistles and NOT with things like communication and politeness. It just floors me.

At any rate, what I'm noticing here is an overwhelming negative response to this, and a complete lack of Linden response. Are they even reading this thread?

If they are, I hope they'll take a hint and kill this project before it even gets off the ground. It's poorly considered, and more importantly, with a little (very little) polishing up, could be a really great idea for next year.

Kam

If you are going to rent then why not check out residents' parcels. Surely the Linden's shouldn't compete with us like this. We have shops from L$49 per week with no camper traffic. Why bid for something you lose in sixty days? A quick buck for the Lindens methinks.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Spectre/53/168/49

There are other parcels with similarly good offers too. We're not the only one.

Auction or Gambling?

You win the Auction and you get a prize from Linden Lab? Sounds a bit like a renumeration for participation in a gambling event to me.

Tell you what, since Linden Lab feels like they can just ignore their own BANS on gambling, anyone that wants to play TEXAS HOLD'EM POKER on New years Eve, please IM me and we'll setup a place and time, and those that win individual hands can keep the money that others put up.

We aren't really gambling, just paying money to participate in a fun activity, and those who have the winning hands will get to a prize from the owner of the table, me; mainly you get the money everyone else put up.

Sounds like a simple matter of semantics doesn't it?

Bob your logic falls apart as soon as you realize that auctions != wagering. You do have a chance to win or lose however it is not a chance that is influenced at all by odds or luck so it doesn't fit the definition of gambling, it is a chance based on amount of money you have, amount of money you are willing to spend, and timing of your bids none of which involve chance.

When you take a CLOSE look at how ONLINE auctions are run, you might understand my logic.

If you were in an Auction House, bidding on something you wanted, you could bid until you were the last person standing. This ISN'T true for online auctions. There is a set time when they end, and therefore, you can win by LUCK. You wait until the last 20 seconds or so, put in your higher bid, and press SUBMIT. With any luck, you will be the last person that gets to bid and therefore, you win by luck.

With that said, there is an element of LUCK in Online Auctions, and therefore, a random chance for you, or others, to win. As a matter of fact, if you have participated in many online auctions you know this is a favorite way to win most bidding wars. Wait until the last possible moment, bid high, and HOPE you were the last person that registered; LUCK.

Like I said, it's just a simple matter of semantics. What makes it gambling, isn't the winning of the use of the land, but the prize awarded by Linden Lab to your home. This is renumeration on Linden Lab part to participate in an activity that deals with a bit of LUCK, therefore, this is gambling.

If Linden Lab wants to just Auction off these "prize packages", that's what they should do. If Linden Lab wants to Auction off land for 2 month leases, that's what they should do. When they tie one into the other as a prize for WINNING the auction, then it becomes gambling in the most strictest sense.

Have a wonderful Christmas Holiday, see you at the Poker Table!

Bob, by that logic then Ebay is illegal which again entirely makes your argument fail since by logic of the fact that EBay at least was the largest online marketplace at one point and has never once been investigated on those grounds you'll have a tough time finding anyone who agrees with you.

Waiting until the end of the auction against other people trying to do the same thing isn't luck either although it sure seems like it sometimes. It is really a logical game of chicken to see who can get the last bid in compared to rolling a dice that (unless you soft roll) can't be skill controlled and is a matter of luck.

Bob you're wrong because it's a no transfer item. However it is another boneheaded move by Linden Lab and stinks of desperation. The blog title is completely misleading.

Sorry Gordon, I've been asked NOT to argue in these Forums, so again, we'll just agree to disagree.

Ciaran, you get a PRIZE from Linden Lab to your DOOR in Real Life. This has REAL WORLD value, and therefore can be considered renumeration for taking part in a "gambling" activity.

I'm not saying my definition isn't a stretch, only that you want to be above reproach when you make rules and policies, you should think about all aspects of what you do, and stay above reproach.

Unfortunately, Linden Lab doesn't have any idea as to what "above reproach" means, and they've proven that time and again.

Have a very Merry Christmas everyone, see you at the Poker Table on New Years Eve!

Ciaran, I don't see how it's misleading. Both uses of win are perfectly acceptable either as "winning a contest" or "winning a bidding war" the latter would apply here. I think many people are just either not seeing this distinction or seeing it but feigning confusion for their own ends because most of these people seem to be well enough educated to know that words can have more than one definition.

the definition of win from Dictionary.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Win

Gordon when I saw the blog post I thought it was going to be like the Luna Lottery, when I read the detail I realised it wasn't. There's no deception here, the rules are clearly stated but Second Life is not primarily an auction site and that's why it's misleading.

To be honest it stinks of desperation that they're doing this and I find that very disappointing.

I thought so too about it being like the Luna sites but you should know that the Luna sites weren't that great. I won one and most of the time the entire area was empty and sales at least for me and for the other merchants there I talked to were better on Slexchange and Onrez than they were there. That being said your mileage may vary and if nothing else it was nice to have a real store again even if it was only for a limited time.

I will do my normal bid a tiny amount just to watch how high the prices really go like I did with some Bay City and the Atlantis thing. What I really want to know is if the Lindens could possibly have been more vague in their contest description. Bid on a parcel! Get a prize! (Ignore the details). Key points: Size/Prims unknown (double prim, low prim, a Cord of prims for the virtual fireplace etc.) Date of delivery unknown, why someone would possibly want land on Winterland in mid Feb or so also not available. Prize unknown. Now if Lindens had said that this say came with a computer that runs SL perfectly, or maybe an SL eye logo pendant they made in bulk for 25 cents each, or whatever in between we would have some info, but we are completely in the dark. Because of the lack of solid info, this would be a gamble. Perhaps not legally "gambling", but a risk that is even bigger than most in SL with even less of a chance at a reward than normal because these sims are still Linden owned and temporary. This really is a bad, unwise, ugly idea.

OK negative stuff over with. Thinking too much like an economist, businessman, or person who cares about things like reputation and the BBB. Silly doggy I am.

Come on Ciaran, we have seen LL doing shoddy marketing not that long ago remember. Can't imagine you are THAT surprised now

They are really doing their best to loose all trust in them, so let them. You can't even visit the parcels to look at what you will be bidding on... I thought gambling was banned from SL? It's like setting blind in Poker. In the end the bank is the only alltimes winner.

Remember the compensation some of us got for the devaluation of full prim sims in March this year? An open space sim, no setup costs and 3 months free of tier. Are we still happy with that "compensation" or are we about to pay extra for something we got as a "compensation"...? In the end we will have paid big time for that "compensation".

For those that get the present at their doorstep: make sure you have your wallet on you when it arrives. You probably end up paying the transportationcosts or something similar. "Free present" from LL, now how about that as the joke of the year.

I think they got the idea from this:

/347/fc/296290/1.html#post2251483

Business owners were asking and intersted in setting up there but it was made clear it wasnt a business set up...some Linden must of said " hey! Had a lot of ppl asking whether they can set their stores up...maybe we can charge them for this and make some money as theres obviously a demand for it "

I think LL is as effected by recession as anyone is now with RL business, online businesess, virtual businesses.
SL isnt a "game" in the sense you have a way to skill up to generate game currency.

The Linden Dollar as we are told by LL themselves has a real value.
As such they ( LL ) and us ( customers of SL ) need to spend/make real money to buy Linden Dollar.

If your a content creator then you depend on the customers to spend their L$ to support you.
Your customers have 2 options to obtain L$

1) Buy it with real money.

2) Make it by creating content in SL for others in exchange for L$ which takes me back to point 1

Real money is TIGHT world wide period.

I have no doubt people are logging into SL more but they are being more decisive on their purchases now. This has a knock on effect or a domino effect.

If my sales are down I in turn spend less L$ in other stores in SL.

LL need the economy as it generates an income for them.

People pay for their land fees, LL make money from Lindex, people are no longer renewing their premium accounts because they need that $85 now and with the loss of sales and income in SL perhaps they cant afford the luxury of owning a sim or land for their homes/stores and decide to rent or not bother at all and sell from some 3rd party website.

As soon as I saw the post I knew it was a marketing decisison to generate some more income in these hard times.

The economic stats show a loss of people making more than $5000 a month from summer now. And that reflects all the way down the line to the $10 a month income.

Land sales and ownership I believe is the same, huge amounts of sims being given back.

Thats less money to LL.

I bought into the whole Bay City thing and own some land there and its been "ok" but like anything theres needs to be entertainment..a reason for people to visit otherwise its just another grid.

I wouldnt buy into this one at all. I see little to no point.

Perhaps if someone has a lot of RL income this is another notch on their bedpost in terms of " status " in SL but as a business concept its a short term investment and I dont believe in short term investments.

As for the whole " is it or isnt it misleading"

No its not.

When you bid in ebay you WIN or LOOSE the item you bid on. Ebay will inform you
" congratulations! you have won item # 434543 "

You WON it because you watched it and paid more than anyone else was willing to pay.

Lastly, right now...LL should be sending ALL premium account holders this " lucky bag"

It would be a cost effective but effective sentiment of "thanks" for helping us to get where we are today because we couldnt of done it without you and without you we couldnt of done it"

The fact they closed the Forum Thread " Second Life Land and Economy" yrs ago speaks for itself.
This was the last moderator post left by Jessica Linden

Reminder: The Purpose of the SL Land and Economy Forum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanetd to remind everyone that the purpose of the Second Life Forums is to promote discussion and education about Second Life. We believe in an honest and open free exchange of ideas, and in always maintaining a respect for the opinions and positions of other people. The Land and Economy Forum was created to allow Second Life Residents a space to discuss virtual land, SL's economy, and the latest economic facts and figures.

Please remember that there are other channels of communication to discuss personal or private matters, including private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life.

dream on! lol

Can you imagine??
As I mentioned in my previous post, I think anyone on a premium account SHOULD be sent some token of appreciation what ever it is...even something like a yearly gift.

When your here 12 months you get a keyring, 2 years a mug, 3 years head set and so on all customised with SL logos...its these little things that make such a HUGE difference to a customers relation and loyalty to the company they pay for a service.

Hey, all other "games" give their customers a Christmas gift, ok its more of a token of appreciation than anything of real value. Sentimental value shall we say.

I dont recall logging into SL to see any " Xmas Gift " since Ive been here..

I dunno, its so easy to pass judgement when your on the outside looking in. I dont know what budget LL are on but right now consumer confidence in the real world is low and with the recent OS issues its dangerously low for SL based on customers and friends discussions.

Its quite clear theres a lot of angry pissed off people who may well up roots and try other grids only to get there and get a culture shock in terms of alpha development grids compared to SL which as over 5 years worth of dev and 100s of staff.

You cant compete with SL "instantly " and added to that...theres THAT many options...people are all going in different directions. In order for any one place to be able to compete with SL right now the majority of ppl trying these new grids out all need to go to one place or they will all fail IMO

Again this is just my opinion and really I dont know much other than my experience with my own store in SL.

I...can...not....type....because....of...so... much... laughing. I laughed not so much since I have read Peter Sloterdijks Critique of Cynical Reason and Thinker on Stage: Nietzsche's Materialism, around 17 years ago.

But this funny company-comedy - original made by our beloved green hand - is able to top that all. Hahaha. Really good stuff.

Hahaha omg, hahaha

Congrats LL. You made my day I am a fan of good jokes

Friendly greetings from Vienna, Austria, where we like such a kind of business-humor,

hehehe

Ill bid to try and win one. I'm sure LL will showcase the area and of course lots of people will go there just to see if anyone actually is getting the spots. Those are eyeballs, and eyeballs = a chance to showcase your product or service to more people. It would be better if they started it like in November but oh well.

Has there, by any chance, been any further info posted about this? You know, the "little things" like, oh, I dunno, the TIME this will begin? How LARGE the parcels are? PRIM allotments? I know, I know--I'm being picky. Call me a "detail diva" if you must, but will someone please CLUE ME IN?

Come on now! I feel like I'm back in high school, visiting a stall and listening to the cheerleaders outside discussing the details of the "big party" on Friday night to which I wasn't invited. Ok, that never happened ( * cough * ), but is there some insider scoop to which I haven't been privy, or are we ALL in the dark?? (Of course it could be that this info is plainly posted somewhere that I have conveniently overlooked...if so, feel free to call me a dork and move along--nothing to see here.)

Nothing in auctions! Here it is monday and I search auctions and lo and behold NOTHING in Prancer, Dasher, Donner or Blitzen. NOTHING FOUND. hmmmmm ok well I am not sure how you figure out its Monday (Midnight SL time I checked and nothing - no Just Listed at all.
Are the parcels hidden somewhere on the auction site for further Fun? COME ON we arent getting answers at all to the "where are they? How big are they? how many prims?" questions.
Someone PLEASE RESPOND WITH DETAILS FOR THOSE THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTED

We have slogged thru all the negative comments and the people telling us how we are patsies for believing this. We just ask simple relevant questions.

Frustration level rising

Tried so hard too. Went to the Auction site at midnight sl time to search for a parcel. Nothing. Checked again at 7:30AM sltime, still nothing. Ok I contacted Online Support and What a shock - they have no idea and the response was: "its only 7:40am here" , My response to that was "oh good, and what time will I expect it up?" "Dont know surely something in the blog"
Oh My God! We are not getting answers to simple questions in the blog. How in the world do we expect them to publish the moment they will put these in auction? and how many seconds will I have to spot that blog entry and then fly over to auction site, search for a parcel (without seeing it in world) bid on it and then lose it to an auction bot. Unlike Lindens I cannot spend my entire day staring at a blog waiting for the race to start.

Lots of negativity here - and the few of us that seem to want to participate are not finding information forthcoming.

PLEASE RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS?
1) WHEN WILL THE AUCTION BEGIN - please do not say Monday, Its monday right now. A specific TIME is useful.
2) What are parcel sizes? prims allowed? etc. These questions have been repeated by many and I have yet to see an answer.

Listen - the time I had to spend searching the parcels and finding out if I want one was during the weekend. Out of frustration I have tried to get further info via support and other resources and the information is just not there. If anyone can give intelligent answers please chime in its quickly becoming impossible to be involved in WinterFaire

Ahhhhh so Lindens Labs is using Christmas as a way to slap all the builders or people contrubuting to the SL economy who are NOT premiums by saying "you have to have a premium account to participate".

There will be a lot more resident ran festivals which are better ran and open to EVERYONE not just PREMIUMS...

Yet another sad Linden Labs let down....and another reason i aint going premium...