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Introducing T Linden. What would you do to improve Premium subscriptions? |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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11-21-2008 13:47
I saw someone the other day who has his real name, how much does that cost? You could offer that as part of a premium package if it's not cost prohibitive.. Check it out: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=4794 edit: basically, it's US$100 plus US$50/year but are only available at LLs discretion. |
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WaterFall Semyorka
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
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11-21-2008 13:47
I think premiums would be much more attractive if the
tier bonus was raised to 1024 or even 2048. I have a lot of friends who prefer to rent on private estates mainly because it's cheaper. It costs about $14.95 if you wanted to have a 1024 parcel for a month on the mainland. That can be rented for much less. I also like the idea that has been brought up about raising tier incrementally per 512 instead of the big jumps to the next level. |
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Khamudy Mannonen
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
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11-21-2008 13:50
Probably the simplest, easiest to implement (and maybe most boring but effective) change would be to go back to providing at least L$500/week or better stipends for premium accounts. In one sense, the stipends are a bit like Premium Account Residents paying us dollars to get linden dollars. The lindex and third party exchanges are pretty good for this, me thinks, but I'd be interested to know if you look at stipends in subs as "just a low effort way to get lindens" - because there is value in not having to actively go get lindens. I guess that's like avoiding a trip to the ATM...:-> I don't, since there is the button within the client to buy Lindens in a hurry now. To be honest, the stipends aren't that good a way of getting Lindens in themselves, but there were one of the good encouragements to Premium membership. I have to say though, if there was a clear gradienting of Second Life in terms of functionality, inworld tools and features (basically like the cross-comparsion check sheets you see when comparing price plans on other services), where premium membership meant access to 'better' versions of inworld tools, cheaper uploads, better support, enhancements to the UI and a greater level of fluidity between inworld and outworld activities (such as IM management, backing up your own content etc.), I think those would be worth the subscription in themselves and the payments of stipends could be removed. But only if there was that very clear sense of benefit from premium membership & sense of the subscription making my work flow with Second Life simpler & easier (thereby being good value). Stipends are a good incentive where there isn't much else on offer, to my mind. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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11-21-2008 13:51
I'd be more inclined to go premium if I didn't see gray textures all over the place. I'd be more likely to rent private land if there were no gray textures, and I'd be more likely to enjoy being landless without the gray.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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11-21-2008 13:53
Increasing amounts of free tier over time is a novel idea, Atashi. It really rewards the longtime, committed resident. Imagine what would happen to residents who were in Second Life for 20 - 30 years! It's something City of Heroes uses for long time users, called Veteran Rewards. Every 3 months, you get a badge and something in game. Every year, you get a free character slot. As the end user, I think it works great and I hate if I have to miss for any reason! So, this is an idea that LL could implement for Second Life, although you might want to go with a annual increase, rather than a 3 month cycle.  I wouldn't want my real name, but the ability to change the name would be good. At least a once in a lifetime change, if the name winds up being something you find you really can't stand. _____________________
DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176
Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065? |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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11-21-2008 13:53
Check it out: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=4794 edit: basically, it's US$100 plus US$50/year but are only available at LLs discretion. Thanks for that because the link had timed out  See I'd see this as the sort of thing that could be traded for the free tier or the stipend as a premium membership option. People who don't want to own mainland may go for this premium option. T as for names being controversial, I think they'd only be controversial if we were forced to use our real names, giving us the choice wouldn't be controversial in my opinion, maybe others will differ. |
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Nimue Jewell
Unabashedly Leggy
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,745
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11-21-2008 13:54
In one sense, the stipends are a bit like Premium Account Residents paying us dollars to get linden dollars. The lindex and third party exchanges are pretty good for this, me thinks, but I'd be interested to know if you look at stipends in subs as "just a low effort way to get lindens" - because there is value in not having to actively go get lindens. I guess that's like avoiding a trip to the ATM...:-> For me, a larger stipend would only have added value if the cost of the premium membership remained the same. Paying more for a larger stipend to "avoid a trip to the ATM" would add no value for me. In fact, it is an added cost upfront that I would find unappealing. _____________________
 Prim Pincher: Low Prim Furniture for Home, Garden, & Skybox http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nimue%20Isle/173/155/27 |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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11-21-2008 13:56
For me, a larger stipend would only have added value if the cost of the premium membership remained the same. Paying more for a larger stipend to "avoid a trip to the ATM" would add no value for me. In fact, it is an added cost upfront that I would find unappealing. Seconded. |
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Poppyseed Poppy
Registered User
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 22
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11-21-2008 13:56
"For me, a larger stipend would only have added value if the cost of the premium membership remained the same. Paying more for a larger stipend to "avoid a trip to the ATM" would add no value for me. In fact, it is an added cost upfront that I would find unappealing."
I totally agree with this! |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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11-21-2008 13:57
I dont agree that there should be a price difference in that regard. For one thing, you dont have to be Premium and pay the annual fee to own a full sim. So there is the difference that should keep the price the same.... Just my opinion. It's a way out for Linden Lab, they're not completely biting the hand that has fed them. I don't really see the big issue if estate owners can get homesteads at lower tier, that's how most services work, those who pay more get a better rate. Estate owners in most cases are paying USD$295 a month for their full sim, a USD$30 break on the rate of Openspaces means they can stay competitive without giving them too big a break to make Linden Lab selling direct worthless. Edited to add that you could make this a premium membership option, give up your free 512 and stipend or make it a more expensive premium option (but not ridiculously expensive). |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-21-2008 14:00
Increasing amounts of free tier over time is a novel idea, Atashi. It really rewards the longtime, committed resident. Imagine what would happen to residents who were in Second Life for 20 - 30 years! _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Poppyseed Poppy
Registered User
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 22
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11-21-2008 14:00
It's a way out for Linden Lab, they're not completely biting the hand that has fed them. I don't really see the big issue if estate owners can get homesteads at lower tier, that's how most services work, those who pay more get a better rate. Estate owners in most cases are paying USD$295 a month for their full sim, a USD$30 break on the rate of Openspaces means they can stay competitive without giving them too big a break to make Linden Lab selling direct worthless. We can agree to disagree on this one LOL. To me, you are getting what you are paying for with that $295 a month. (Full sim and prims and no limits etc) And for me to pay the premium fee, (that you dont HAVE to pay)I am paying over a longer period of time for something with less benefits. I see your point, just hoping you see mine too.  |
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Surty Slok
Registered User
Join date: 8 Dec 2006
Posts: 74
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11-21-2008 14:01
Increasing amounts of free tier over time is a novel idea, Atashi. It really rewards the longtime, committed resident. Imagine what would happen to residents who were in Second Life for 20 - 30 years! We would feel properly rewarded for our commitment to the platform. I don't know about other folk around here, but I am in for the long term - judging by T's statement, are the Lindens? Surty .. |
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Marcus Llewellyn
Registered User
Join date: 3 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
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11-21-2008 14:04
I bought into premium membership on my first year anniversary in SL for one reason, and one reason only. The ability to own mainland.
I would like to add my voice to the crowd which likes the idea of better tiers for premium members, one way or another. |
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Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
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11-21-2008 14:05
Increasing amounts of free tier over time is a novel idea, Atashi. It really rewards the longtime, committed resident. Imagine what would happen to residents who were in Second Life for 20 - 30 years! You could cap it of course, after x years you don't get any more. Or better still, link it to the paid tiers. I.e. you've been premium for 5 years, but to get your 2560m of 'free tier' you have to hold 5120m or more of land. In other words, you're still encouraging people to hold and pay for land, but allowing them a larger percentage of it 'tier-free' for each year of premium membership. Hire me as a consultant T! I can help you out here!  -Atashi _____________________
Visit Atashi's Art and Oddities Store and the Waikiti Motor Works at beautiful Waikiti.
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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11-21-2008 14:06
We would feel properly rewarded for our commitment to the platform. I don't know about other folk around here, but I am in for the long term - judging by T's statement, are the Lindens? A month ago, before the openspace mess, I would have shouted "me too!" Their handling of that has left me wondering about where SL is heading, though. Despite all the things I'd like to have, if this is really just a way to figure out how to charge mainland dwellers more, I'll just keep what I have now, TYVM. |
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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11-21-2008 14:07
1) a certain number of free uploads per month or reduced cost on them
2) at the 2048 or 4096 level, I would have the tier charges increasing every 1024 or 2048, rather than at every doubling. I think this would actually get some of us into larger amounts of land at a faster rate (to me it is easier to swallow small increases at a time, even if the end result is the cost in 6 months). Right now, I am at 4096 and currently only want another 1-2k, but feel obligated to go all the way to 8192 if/when I make that jump. Whereas smaller increments would probably have me at that 8192 point faster. 3) maybe a small percentage discount in tier fee for longer term premiums 4) another way to encourage long term premiums is to give them a bonus L$ payment on their anniversary each year. 5) keep the weekly stipend. It is not much, but it is a token of "we appreciate your membership and support of us" I see many have already said much of the above. I also like Mari's idea of Premium accounts getting a few more group slots. _____________________
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-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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LittleMe Jewell
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Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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11-21-2008 14:10
Brenda and I suggested this down in the Improving Orientation thread: Bring back First Land. But change it, so that 1) All First Land expires after 1 month of ownership. It reverts back to Governor Linden, all objects belonging to the owner are returned, and the parcel is recycled to a new Premium member. 2) First Land is NOT transferable, sub-lettable, etc. It can be used and owned by only the new Premium member. 3) First Land parcels are grouped around stable Infohubs that are staffed by Mentors who have ban/eject rights on those Infohub parcels. This will create a sense of community for new users. The thinking behind the 1-month expiration is that it gives new Preemies a chance to learn about land ownership, get a taste of it, then move out and buy or rent their own parcel. It also will avoid the old problem of people leaving SL and effectively abandoning their First Land, which both removed it from circulation and often created nasty eye sores, as auto-return was often not activated. _____________________
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-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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11-21-2008 14:10
I'm going to say something here that I believe may be misconstrued, so please take it as constructively as possible. I bear no ill will.
First of all, hello and welcome. Second, regarding this first point: >>Listening to the market. Cluetrain says all markets are conversations, and this is probably more true for Second Life. Understanding the needs of our current Residents and the people we’d like to be future Residents is necessary to tailor the product to meet the needs of our increasingly diverse audiences. The problem is overwhelmingly as follows: The decisionmakers in big business and academia who choose Second Life as a platform are, almost as a rule, enthusiastic ordinary residents too. Most of them are fairly experienced oldbies, and congregate on private estates (80% of the grid as we know it). The issue with the openspace price increase and the way it was handled in the last few weeks basically made them feel that a) Linden Research wasn't acting in good faith, b) is not a good partner in business going forward. At that point a lot of market conversation simply ceased, and you can see that in the November stats already. At this point the task isn't listening to the market - I trust that everyone is an intelligent individual and can't miss the tens of thousands of blog posts written within the past couple weeks all generally saying the same thing. The problem right now is the lack of response. Something else has to be done to restore faith, and I can think of dozens of fairminded, intelligent, businesslike residents that have lost that faith entirely. These aren't the unwashed uneducated masses; they are intelligent people capable of seeing two sides to an issue. * * * * * With regard to Premium membership - anyone who hasn't been part of grid culture for a long time stands little chance of making the right choices, or identifying the right suggestions on this thread. Get a focus group of residents, offer them a variety of real packages you'll back up, and then let them vote with their dollars. Nothing else will tease out the truth. A user ten days old has totally different needs than a ten month old, and so forth. Or how about somebody who spends over 90,000 USD in tier annually - hey, do I get a card for the holidays? You might be surprised - I get the same level of breaks with about 50 regions, as someone with one region. Yey. Not that I would expect much in the way of a break, though. If premium perks are being passed out, I have to consider who is paying for them. Looking at what happens to my tier soon, I can only assume all the new premium perks will be paid for, as usual, by people like me. _____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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11-21-2008 14:11
Greetings T! Welcome to the asylum! Make Premium accounts worth having? 1. 24*7 Technical Support 2. Buy at least 1 or maybe 2 (or more) Open Space Regions without having to buy a full island first. 3. Discount (Maybe 50%) on classified advertisements in world. 4. Premium Member area on the forums for feedback so we can have discussions with less vitriol laced spam. That's all I have time for now. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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11-21-2008 14:12
You could cap it of course, after x years you don't get any more. Or better still, link it to the paid tiers. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Surty Slok
Registered User
Join date: 8 Dec 2006
Posts: 74
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11-21-2008 14:18
You could cap it of course, after x years you don't get any more. Or better still, link it to the paid tiers. I.e. you've been premium for 5 years, but to get your 2560m of 'free tier' you have to hold 5120m or more of land. In other words, you're still encouraging people to hold and pay for land, but allowing them a larger percentage of it 'tier-free' for each year of premium membership. Hire me as a consultant T! I can help you out here! -Atashi Imagine how much land 20 years of development could get you? 20 years ago, 1988, i had stopped being a biologist, and had became a statistical computing advisor, telling people how to manage their KB of data in SPSS. LL need to get a grip here. For 'T' to seriously say that 20 years of adding tier to a premium account is extreme, is a bit analagous to Bill Gates' 64K statement. Atashi - you need to keep talking sense to these people! Surty... showing his age, if not his wisdom ... |
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Aleco Collas
Satyr
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 1,463
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Some thoughts from a german user
11-21-2008 14:20
The support for the new ATI Radeon HD grafic cards is poor, so many people decline from using SL due to the need of different hardware. The only cards that work good with SL are the NVidia ones, that cuts out about half of the gamers.
LL does not support help organisations like NCI or GNC by offering tier reduced land. On the other hand the newbie offers from LL are insufficient. I ran a help station myself for a while and the feedback from the newbies showed, that with LL offers alone, very few would have stayed in SL longer. The CGs are not checked on a regular basis. Once set up, no one from LL takes a second look. Some were rebuilded and are not really to be called CGs any more. The CGs and the other resident run help offers give LL a double benefit: They pay full tier and they do a big part of LLs job by making Newbies stay and offering support. Kicking out half of the mentors sid not make the helpers happy. ... cu Aleco |
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Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
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11-21-2008 14:22
Reading all the posts here, thinking about it more.. if the point is to make Premium more attractive (i.e. sell more memberships) while reducing the dependancy on stipends (either eliminate stipends, or keep them but focus on the other advantages) then the more I think of it, the more I think the solution has to be one of additional capabilities inworld, which will require enhanced features to the servers and client software.
The quick fix solutions (more stipends, more tier-free land) would cost LL money indirectly, in that people would be either buying fewer L$ at the Lindex, or paying lower monthly tier fees for their land. So using these things as premium benefits would not benefit LL's bottom line in the long run. Adding inworld capabilities would cost money upfront, in development, programming, etc etc. But once in place, these benefits would not have ongoing costs to LL and therefore every premium they sold after the benefits were in place, would be more or less pure profit. So things like added groups, being able to create mega/micro prims, extended avatar edit functions, making delay-free scripts, would IMHO be better long-term choices for LL. If we took all four of these suggestions, that would appeal to builders, avatar makers, scripters, merchants, plus just about everyone could benefit from more group slots. So you have a lot of people out there who could be basic account holders but successful business owners, even owning whole estates, that are currently not premium. More mainland tier or some extra stipends are probably not going to appeal to them anyways. But extra inworld abilities probably will - so you have now a win-win situation, where LL can give people a lot of things we've been asking for over the past few years, and at the same time add some long-term benefits to their bottom line. Having said all this: I'll up the ante - announce any one of the seven things I suggested in my earlier post between now and Dec. 6th (I don't expect them to be impemented in 2 weeks, just announce something) and instead of cancelling my premium account, I will renew it for a full year. What do you say, T? -Atashi _____________________
Visit Atashi's Art and Oddities Store and the Waikiti Motor Works at beautiful Waikiti.
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LittleMe Jewell
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Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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11-21-2008 14:24
what could be done to improve the premium product, as compared to basic? Well here's an idea. Why not look at other services, and see how they make their premiem membership plans more desirable. Livejournal, is probably a great example of this. If we take away the issue of "ads".. (since thankfully SL doesn't work that way).. we can see that basic, freebie members get reasonably full access to the service. Basic members may own a journal. Let's analogize this to land. Basic and premium can both own "land".. premium members get added perks. Perhaps the premiums get a 512 or 1024 of ftree tier, and the basics do not. While their uploads are limited, at SL, we pay-per-upload in the form of a 10L fee. So differentiating the ability to upload files for premium/basic seems silly for SL. But.. how about a discount-per-upload for premium members? One constant with LJ is that whatever the basics get, the premiums get MORE. While everyone can own a journal, the premium members get more userpics, custom mood themes, custom journal themes, etc. In this case, I'd like to analogize this to groups. groups are used in MANY ways to conduct business.. any mall you want to install a vendor in, has a group to avoid autoreturn. limiting us to 25 groups forces us to play group-shuffle and drop groups "we don't need now". Perhaps allowing basics to have 25, and premiums to have 35.. and then enabling premiums to "pay a fee" for every new group over 35. "You already have 37 groups. If you select join, you will be charged a signup-fee of 100L$. Premium accounts are permitted 35 groups free of penalties. To avoid this fee you must drop at least 3 groups before joining this group. Membership has it's perks. So let's talk about some new features that might be good as "premium only". The infrastructure already exists to send an email to[email=[email="UUID@lsl.secondlife.com]UUID@lsl.secondlife.com[/email]"] [email=UUID@lsl.secondlife.com]UUID@lsl.secondlife.com[/email][/email]. This allows any outside source of email to communicate with an object within second life. How about some new features for premiums.. [email=[email="winter.ventura@residents.secondlife.com]winter.ventura@residents.secondlife.com[/email]"][email=winter.ventura@residents.secondlife.com]winter.ventura@residents.secondlife.com[/email][/email] This email could be autoforwarded to my email-on-file. (encouraging me to keep said email up to date as well). But how about this... [email=[email="winter.ventura@sms.secondlife.com]winter.ventura@sms.secondlife.com[/email]"][email=winter.ventura@sms.secondlife.com]winter.ventura@sms.secondlife.com[/email][/email] this email would appear to me, inworld, in the form of an instantmessage (and would be forwarded to my email if I was offline and had that function enabled). I don't envy you your job. After all, regardless of what you change, there will be resentment. The trick is to increase the value of the premium account, while not lessening the value of a basic account. After all, most users will always be Basic. so you don't want to risk alienating the majority of the userbase. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |