The Question of Land Cutting

I don't own land anymore. When I did I had a total of 16,384 Sqm. All mainland and all bought 512 Sqm at a time.

I don't know about plots smaller then that but I never would have bought any at all had I not had the ability to do it one small piece at a time.

Some people say the mainland is ugly. Maybe it is but I find it far more interesting then most private sims. They all look too pretty somehow

If you want to make the Mainland look better create some ROADS that can't me moved or changed even by the owners. The mainland looks screwed up and clostrophobic because its all a big tangled mess with no demark between one area and another.

It dosen't look like a place people want to be because in RL just getting around would be like navagating a earthquake zone

sqm = m2 = m^2 = m**2 .... a m2 is a unit of area

saying something is x meters is saying how long (or tall) it is ..... a meter is a unit of length

THe situation we're talking about is NEVER just "putting something up for sale for a higher price than some people or even anyone might want to pay for it."

And you know that perfectly well.

If this was isolated people just putting high prices on land that would be "oh, OK, that's just people putting silly prices on things", but what is ACTUALLY happening on the mainland is systematic harassment and extortion. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Simply make a rule that mainland land can only be sold in the same size it was purchased in or some multiple thereof. Halves maybe?

That way you eliminate price gouging/ fleecing of small land owners who are mostly gullible/unaware noobies.

Any other solution restricting free market enterprise simply imposes some form of price controls that retard the spirt of the game.

Just a humble opinion.

NO NO NO NO NO NONONO.

Go back and re-read the whole thread until you understand why. It's been explained often enough.

See, we come full circle. It's not about price, it's about use. The issue is not size; the issue is harassment.

BTW, for those new to the land business, a few simple definitions:

k = thousand
$ = US dollars
L = Linden dollars
m = meter (unit of length)
m2 = square meters (unit of area)
16m2 = 4m x 4m = 4m on each side

Finally, it has also been suggested that parcels of 64m or smaller have their sale value clamped to be no higher than the current average price per meter.

Are 64m length of the land?64mX64m=4096sqm
All the land becomes the bargain. It is a good idea.

This matter of Linden Lab should do as you like.
You do not have a sense to accept a good idea.
I do not give the opinion.Bye!

I just checked the 16m2 in Sistiana and it's now down to L9995 from L30k. It seems no one wanted to pay L30k for it and he didn't want to get zero, so he adjusted his price. This is how markets work.

Yes, there is systematic harassment and extortion. There are also people who put a silly price on something. Once I couldn't decide whether or not to sell off a parcel of mine, which was under 512m2. I put a stupidly high price on there, sort of getting myself used to the idea of selling it. You know, there was an extra zero or two in there. I didn't expect anyone to buy it. But right away, someone DID buy it. And IMed me to harass the heck out of me about the high price. Didn't try to negotiate or anything . . . just bought it and *then* IMed to scream at me. I would have either not sold it at all or lowered the price to something reasonable, if she'd contacted me before buying. Edit: and if she hasn't IMed me a bunch of foul nastiness, I would have given a partial refund.

I didn't do anything wrong. But according to what you've posted here, you're calling me an extortionist. And that's not cool.

What you and some others are talking about is taking away some abilities or rights that landowners have. While you might think that's the best thing for you, or even for SL in general, don't overlook the fact that there are going to be some people who are hurt by what you're suggesting. And regardless of whether that slows you down at all in pursuit of your goal, there's no need to be inconsiderate about it.

EDITED TO ADD: the parcel I wrote about here was something like 412m2 btw . . . not a 16m2. Thought I should mention that before anyone got themself worked up about it.

There is a lot of Nautilus for sale at what many would consider "high" prices (some are quite ridiculous), but the high price of parcels in Nautilus at least is in part due to the "no cutting" rule. Landcutters can't invade -- ever.

Extortion plots (and it's obvious that the mainland is infested with them) undercuts the price of land for every other landowner in the region.

I consider the term 'extortionist' to be intolerant hate speech in violation of the SL Big Six and abuse report anybody who uses such terms to describe legitimate land dealers.

Death as in permban, duh. I.e. you can not come back on that account and you lose all your stuff.



Ya thats what the soviets would tell gulag prisoners too. Get real.

There is a 320m2 for sale in Miramare at L200k (L625 per m2). It has been on the market for ages - unsold. Beside it, there is a 1248m2 for L318240 (L255 per m2) - unsold. In Barcola, there is a 320m2 for L300k (L937.5 per m2) - unsold. Beside it is a 240m2 for L150k (L625 per m2) - unsold. There are two 1024m2 lots for sale in Nautilus-Yamm for L500k (L488 per m2). None of these lots will sell until their prices fall into the range of prospective buyers. Meanwhile, there is a 160m2 for sale in Hina at L6k (L37.5 per m2) - very reasonably priced indeed. Yet it remains unsold. None of the owners of these lots are engaged in harassment. Is this extortion? No. Notice how lot size does not come into the equation at all.

Hey, I have questions for those who feel that the correct approach would be to put a cap on the price for parcels under a certain size.

Why not put a price cap on all parcels, then? Why and where should there be a limit?

For those who think that parcels under a certain size should only be transferrable for free: Why allow selling some land for a profit but not other parcels? Where's the cutoff, and why?

Also, there's a feature for selling land with the objects that are on it. This is a way to transfer a build (including those non-group-selectable Linden plants), or to increase the value of a parcel before you sell it. What modification would you make to price caps for a parcel that is being sold with the build on it?

Because I'm just wondering what percentage of the people posting to promote these solutions is people who don't like the idea of making a profit on SL land sales at all.

Legitimate land dealers don't extort. If you have a 16 sq. m parcel that is a donut hole in someone else's land and set it at 9999L, you are not a legitimate land dealer. If you buy the four corners of a cut up 512, join them and set them at 16999L, you are not a legitimate land dealer. If you waffle a 1024 sq. m parcel with joined microplots and set them to 20,000L, you are not a legitimate land dealer. If you do things like this you are an EXTORTIONIST. It is because of these people we are having this debate, and why LL is finally going to do something about it. And don't muddy the waters by getting all free market on us. We are talking about criminal activity that is ruining SL and it needs to be stopped.

Really though I think this all comes down to that there's really no purpose in selling a 16m2 plot all alone without it being to someone with land already on the sim.

You can't build anything and advertising is no longer an option. Some say it's to place somekind of network devise or even Xstreet box but anyone who owns a premium account can get a 512 and one prim more isn't a big deal. Most people who own a 16m2 plot on a sim and it's all they own are into selling it for extortion prices or have a bot system they takes advantage of someone leaving SL or wanting to get rid of land cheap and the bot is needed to get to that land first. The more 16m2 plots these land sharks have the less likely a person can buy land from another person. How many now find land being sold by some other resident who isn't part of a land business? I looked for land for 2 months in SL and didn't find a single plot being sold by just another resident but being sold by land brokers. Land brokers want high land prices so they will make sure to buy up anything set to a low price. This is were the 16m2 plots come in with their bot scripts. I think if LL made selling anything less than what someone can make a home or business from (the purpose of land isn't it?) it would make selling and buying land more realistic and interesting and give everyone a fair advantage to get a plot of land making more people want to have a paid account. And for those who just own one 16m2 plot make them either sell them to land owners who have land in that sim or just revert them to governor linden.

Stilll I think Linden Lab should define inside regions (sim) where ADD are alowed and where not, simple by layout land for them. Buyers of land then know where they risk
have ADD's and where not. Also more fair when dealing land.

i cant see any risen now for small cutted land, most of them should simple been taken over by Linden and gives back to them there have land up to in the cases thats posibel, evt by the 3 borders rules. To avoid some come in problem wiht tier raise for the extra sqm i suggest the free bonus land for premium members raises to 1024 Sqm what i only think make more sense then a 512 sqm there in my mind is to small to anything risonable.


Bertram Merlin

Few other issues.
#1
Strip mining - the practice of cutting off large strips next to protected land, or inbetween larger parcels set for sale ( they are usually only 4 meters wide, but long ) ... the owner of the strips sits on them untill the land next to it is sold, than sells the strips.
If the owners of the ajoining lots do not buy the strip, they cna not have a continous parcel of land. The strips are often odd ball sized to harass property owners who want to expand.

#2
Checker Boarding - the practice of sourounding parcels of land with smaller clumps of odd sized land, or odd patterened land

#3
The way the current rules read, putting legitimate for sale signs on larger propertys for sale is not clearly defined ( i'm talking about a professional land sales sign, not a spinning red ones ), some thinck it is not alowed, others thinck it is.

My thoughts
Folks who cut land, and no better than Lazarus Devine ( http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2005/12/impeachable_off.html ) the grand father of land griefers.

All they do is grief local land owners, and care nothing for the comunity, or land values, just the $L they cna make.

I've been in the land market since 2005, it was a nice time back than. Protected land ment something, there was no maps dotted filled with little 16M's set forsale. SL actually was a nice place to be in, and look at. I didn't have to wory about land cutters ruining whole sims overnight. ( there are several dozen sims so badly damaged by cutters, they are worthless now )

Please do to them as you did to Lazarus Devine, ban them for griefing.

Would you buy a Mersadies Benz car for the same price as a Colbalt?
Scocilizing the land market is a big no-no ... There is higher prices for rare land, or more desirable land ( exotic ) ... fact of life, you pay more $ for a beach front property in a tropical area, than a desert property sorounded by wasteland in real life ... why not second life? Barcola, for example is a rare sim ... x2 prims ... very few were made like this ... it's more expensive. Other examples are unblockable view propertys ( edge of world ) ... folks like the fact no one cna ever build infront of them, the nice ocean view, and the sunset/sunrises .... they pay more for the propertys, evan though there is more of it.

16M's are neather rare, nore are they desirable. -Extortion- They are sold at high price, so local land owners are forced to buy them ( buying the view ), or put up with ads and garbidge put on them.

Now ...

Maybe if linden labs made tier prices reasonal so many people wouldnt buy tiny plots because they would be able to afford a bigger plot.As with so many problems in second life linden labs nit picks to try to keep us all happy instead of fixing the root of the problem.This is usally because fixing the root of the problem will loose linden labs money.

For one in such a position, the continued destruction of the Mainland might be quite useful.
In Soviet Russia, the irony comes to you.

Personally I would like to see a minimum land cap of some sort so people had to own say 128m in a sim,if you need a 16m rent it from someone or put your backup server on a friends land.
This bullcrap about owning a 16m in every sim is just that. 16m owners aren't sim residents at all, even if they knit on them

I have a small parcel of 512M2 in main land and want to sell it. Although your regulation on ad farm went a long way to improve mainland view, small cut parcels and disorderly built items make me feel sick. But some people may love such scenery.

As I heard that you plan to apply zoning, why don't you combine land cutting regulation with newly projected zoning in the near future? I want residential area with road, pavement, streetlamps and a park together with prohibition of land cutting. People may want to take advantage of land for commercial use to the maximum, namely without such accessory. In RL land cutting is a major factor of generating slum area.

Before deciding everything at one time, I recommend you to propose us parcels of 2 to 3 categories and let resident chose and price according to the market mechanism, demand and supply.

you really know nothing about economics do you?