The Question of Land Cutting

hey Argent. i don't believe i specified any size in my post. the point is, if they decide they want to force a fixed price per m2 of land , then it effects everyone whether you're selling a 16m parcel or a 65536m sim on the mainland.

i see alot of people in this thread wanting LL to not stop at smaller then 512's they keep mentioning 1024's , 2048's. they want LL to force prices on all sizes. if i pay a tier on my land, i should beable to sell for more then the market price to try to recoup some of that cost and make some sort of profit for my time especially if i sell it with items.

no one should have the right to tell us what we can price our land for.

i mean they took away the ability to earn a stipend for traffic generated on our land, then they lowered the stipend you get for a premium account, then they went and removed First land, then they raised the tier for private sims, they killed mainland value by flooding it with more and more land. now you all want them to dictate what you can do with your land and how much you can sell it for ?

what's next ? want them to decide how many hours a week you can log in next ? what else do you want them to take away from you ?

Nobody has suggested that there be a limit to the price of LARGE parcels, and the majority of suggestions for price limits are for 256m and smaller, let alone 512.

I'm one of "they" and no, "they" don't.

You're just making up a straw man.

Argent, if you would go back and read the earlier comments in this forum, you will see that the discussion has long ago moved on from lots sizes to general harassment. Any size lot can be employed for harassment, from a 16m2 to a 16384m2.

I would like to add one small point. I have dealt with Weedy Herbst and Ice Brodie on several occasions. Both were very willing to trade squares at my convenience. I have also purchased squares from Chrischun Fassbinder, who replied to my IMs and was perfectly reasonable about the price. Nor have I ever had a problem with BuhBuhCuh Fairchild, who runs a network across the grid.

The people talking about "general harassment" are NOT the ones talking about price limits.

So have I, and I have no complaint about Weedy Herbst.

In both of these points you're just muddying the waters.

Just like the ones trying to make out that the problem is ANYTHING BUT the way microparcels enable extortion are.

/me isn't Argent but does point out that LL started this thread to talk about tiny parcels. New threads are cheap so why not keep this one on track with what LL is asking about?

The idea of price limits died 20 pages ago.

extortion implies that you're being forced to buy it. no one is forcing you to buy it.

if i buy a 32m parcel and then later on decide i don't want it because my needs changed. so i put it up for 5000L$. am i considered an extortionist?

if it happened to be next to your land and you want it and don't want to pay 5k for it, i'm an extortionist. to the guy walking buy laughing his butt off because i'm charging 5k for 32m of land , i'm just crazy


either way. my point is. this shouldn't even be something that needs a thread to be discussed. this should have been handled privately by LL and then they tell us how they feel it should be handled. all this does is piss off the community and makes people point fingers at each other.

Not that old argument again.

Nobody's forcing you to own land, or play second life.
Yes.

Jack,

I believe setting a limit price (max) for 64sqm or smaller is the best solution. This may needs some development work, but imagine the work it will save from GTeam or Land team etc, having to check every single case of land, to see if its a violation or not? Just limit a price and you will have solved a big problem. This way you wont have 1000 ARs about cut land, requiring Linden manpower to check every single slot. This way if someone wants to sell 16sqm, its for the fixed roof price and thats it. End of the problem.

Limited 64sqm (or below) Price:

- development work
- 0 ARs/Gteam work

Freedom in pricing:

- no development work
- 9999999 ARs
- 999999999999999 Gteam work hours

why ? i'm not forcing you to buy it.

You're not forcing me to play second life, either. You're begging the question of whether extortion only applies to blackmail situations where life and freedom is on the line. It's a silly argument, and you know it's silly.

In an ideal world no, but you have to remember what this does to Second Life's bottom line. A 32M parcel that blocks expansion, blocks it in a big way. That hits Linden Lab's bottom line.

So no, you're not an extortionist for setting a parcel for sale for an absurd price, but you might well be damaging the economy as a whole and surely that's bad for all of us?

The definition of extortion is not "putting something up for sale for a higher price than some people or even anyone might want to pay for it."

Cost per quantity, sure. When was the last time you saw a single pack of twinkies costing more than that box of 24 they are next to though?

that's probably the best explanation i've heard in this entire thread concerning the small parcels.

most of the posts in this thread that i've read, and i'll admit i haven't read them all, give me the impression that people are pushing for this because it gives them a chance to grab something they couldn't afford before.

We used to devide a parcel to two or more smaller ones for different group purposes like changing media settings, different land settings for different stores (f.e. a weapon store should have damage enabled to let the customer try the product right after buying...) etc....

All groups had only the same two members.
I cant see any violation in this.

Before selling the parcel, we rejoined it.

No. L5k for a 32m2 is a perfectly reasonable price for SL mainland - though, of course, much depends on where it is and whether anyone is prepared to buy it. Some 16s can be worth up to L25k; others are worth nothing - but, again, it depends on the desires of a particular buyer. As mentioned before, this is Economics 101. The real issue is whether someone puts a flashing, screaming cheese-head on that 32m2 or 64m2 or 1024m2 or 4096m2.

I can't remember the last time someone was put to death as a result of violating the TOS.

If you don't want to suffer the consequences of an action, simply do not perform that action. I learned that by the time I was old enough to eat with a fork.



No, no... you don't understand. Land Barons would either work together to manipulate the market (think OPEC), or effectively do the same thing working independently. Either way, land pricing could be regulated through deceptive or unethical practices such as using outrageously overpriced 16m parcels to harass or extort others.

Do you follow now, cupcake?

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything here, but that doesn't mean pricing small parcels excessively high to manipulate land value or harass others is acceptable.

The fact that something is possible doesn't mean it is right. Do you believe murder should be acceptable to? Survival of the fittest? Or are you selective in what protections you believe people should be given?

I know that some of what i will say includes ideas that others have already expressed. I acknowledge that and ask that they feel complemented that I like theri ideas, and not offended.

First, Yes, land cutting needs to be stopped.

For purposes of this discussion I am going to define a new term, landholding, as contiguous parcels in the same sim under common ownership. To be recognised as contiguous, they would have to share sides, not just corners. Most legitamate uses for small parcels involve parcels within a larger landholding. I realize that there are some uses for 16 sq m parcels standing alone, but they are few and are not important to the vast majority of us; losing them would be a small price to pay to get rid of all of those micro parcels.

Landholdings smaller than 512 sq m should be banned, and the minimum permissible length or width should be 32 m, to prevent extortion through the use of long narrow parcels, which might otherwise be the next extortionate practice. The date on which the ban will be effective should be announced six months ahead, giving owners willing to sell for a FAIR price ample opportunity to do so. Landholdings below the limits on the effective date should be handled as follows: Those adjoining one landholding on three or four sides, or two sides if adding it would restore a corner of the landholding, should be sold to that owner for nothing or a token amount. Those touching only Linden land and one landholding should be handled the same way. Those adjoined by multiple landholdings where one neighbor has a longer border than any other should be sold to that neighbor. In all cases, of course, people could decline to to buy the land. When that happens, it should be offered to the other neighbors in turn according to the length of their borders with it. If everyone else declines it, and it adjoins Linden land, it should be added to that. At this point, I think nearly all of the really objecyionable parcels will have been disposed of. If no adjacent owner wants it, it should remain as Linden land and be kept for sale to adjacent landowners only indefinitely.

After the effective date, it would not be possible to buy or sell parcels smailler than 512 sq m.

I think this would solve 99% of the problems caused by small parcels and would levae 99% of the legitamate uses unaffected. It would have the advantage for LL that, while it would require some programming to implement, once that was done it would require no administration. There would not be any need to handle ARs, violations of the TOS, etc.; it just would not be possible to have small parcels that were not a part of a larger landholding.

*BOGGLES*

You are paying 156.25 lindens/m2 for mainland? I am sure a lot of people like selling to you then.

The problem with this suggestion is the fact that the landscape is not designed to be divided up in perfectly shaped square parcels... especially near protected land (roads for example). Or, as someone mentioned a bunch of posts ago, cutting a small piece of land off an oddly sized parcel to keep under a certain tier level. If that piece is smaller than 512m, you would be forcing them to abandon land which they should be able to sell for a fair market price.

32m2 would be 1024 sqm, or L$4.88 per square meter.

32m in the sense of square meters, would cost L$156.25 per square meter.

Take a look at land prices in Nova Albion, Bay City or Nautilus. L100-300 per m2 is cheap depending on the lot. FYI, there is a 16m2 in Sistiana for sale at L30k. I won't pay that, but someone else might be willing to. If no one buys it, the seller gets...zero.

Limiting to 32 will cause a lot of problems with existing plots. Especially when you consider that the shape of your land is not always ideal.