Q3 closed on a high note with an unusually strong September. Talk 11/12 w/Zee Linden
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Felix Oxide
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Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 655
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11-12-2008 17:22
From: Ryanna Enfield As a business, SL should want to make Premium Accounts the majority not the minority. I do not believe we should be limiting other users experiences. But Premium Accounts as they stand now are simply not attractive to the Majority. People who can afford them, don't want them. The point is not to make it so that people need to have Premium Accounts, but that they actually want them. My ideas for Premium Perks: 1) Increasing free land tier is a good idea and great way to use up already available resources, while encouraging economic growth. I really like this idea for obvious reasons. 2) Put stipend back at 500L per week. 300L only encouraged tightening of belts and contributed to the immaterial Premium Account theory. 3) Give traffic bonus presences to Premium Members. One Premium Member could be equivalent to ten Basic Account Avatars. Keep it a number that could easily be subtracted from official number data. Thus granting traffic bonuses to places Premium Account Members visit. If someone decides they want to purchase Premium Accounts for all their bots, good. They are paying for used resources. But I'm thinking those that sit around and just collect free L might not want to pay for it. If we do away with traffic fueled search, number 3 is pointless, but I'm not opposed to doing away with traffic fueled search. Just hasn't happened in the three years I've been here. #2 would kill the benefits of #3 since they would just pay their bot army's premium fees with the increased stipend. As far as killing traffic, not every popular place uses bots or camping. I would rather see obvious abuses of bots (the 100 of them piled up in a skybox for instance) be reportable and punishable.
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Ghosty Kips
Elora's Llama
Join date: 2 May 2008
Posts: 2,386
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11-12-2008 17:22
What what I understand, most of the issues with griefers and traffic bots worsened due to the ability of folks to create as many anonymous accounts as one likes.
Ending anonymous accounts would curb both phenomena, wouldn't it?
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Ann Otoole
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Join date: 22 May 2007
Posts: 867
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11-12-2008 17:29
From: Jini Hammerer 4 logins from one IP will not work. You could potentially cut off tens of thousands of real clients.
the very nature of tcp/ipv4 makes it impossable for every single individual with internet access to have its own private internet address.
People who use city public wifi, many major isp's, many schools some cell internet all service clients in private address ranges. You could potentially limit a an entire city to 4 logins. Basically LL needs to silently disconnect traffic from being a factor in search relevance. Old, new, popular places, whatever. And disconnect the gamed profile picks from search relevance too. People pay for classified ads. Let the price paid be the deterministic factor for visibility. Just like real world advertising. End of bot problem. Less defects from lame attempts to code law. Alas I don't think Zee has thing one to do with search so discussing this here is as futile as anything else in this vicinity of the internet.
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Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
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11-12-2008 17:31
Five steps to making Premium accounts attractive:
1) 1024m as the no-tier threshold (instead of 512)
2) 50 groups (instead of 25)
3) L$400 stipends
4) After 12 months of Premium, you get another 512m tier (so can hold 1536m w/o payment)
5) After 12 months of Premium, your stipends go up to L$500
Points 1 through 3 will increase the demand for premium membership.
Points 4 and 5 will Help You Keep Them!
Don't be blind to the fact that your existing customers are at least as important as new ones - for every existing customer you piss off and turn away, they are going to badmouth you to 10 or more of their friends.
And as an aside Katt, I agree with Bob - You are supposed to be in charge of communications and a representative of the company. Show some respect when you talk to your customers for goodness sake.
-Atashi
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TigroSpottystripes Katsu
Join date: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 556
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11-12-2008 17:53
if they can increase group count, then do it for everyone, if you really wanna have more groups for prems, then give'm a a few more besides the increase everyone got, and invest a percentage of the money earned from them into figuring out how to get even more groups for everyone (like start with 50 free + 25 more for prems, and every few months make those numbers bigger till there are enough groups to cease the complaints about group count limits)
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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Like the Ideas
11-12-2008 18:00
From: Atashi Toshihiko Five steps to making Premium accounts attractive:
1) 1024m as the no-tier threshold (instead of 512)
2) 50 groups (instead of 25)
3) L$400 stipends
4) After 12 months of Premium, you get another 512m tier (so can hold 1536m w/o payment)
5) After 12 months of Premium, your stipends go up to L$500
Points 1 through 3 will increase the demand for premium membership.
Points 4 and 5 will Help You Keep Them!
Don't be blind to the fact that your existing customers are at least as important as new ones - for every existing customer you piss off and turn away, they are going to badmouth you to 10 or more of their friends.
And as an aside Katt, I agree with Bob - You are supposed to be in charge of communications and a representative of the company. Show some respect when you talk to your customers for goodness sake.
-Atashi Since all of these options cost LL money, it is doubtful they will even look at the post, but... I love the idea of more perks over time! Customer Loyalty is a good business model. Agreed on the last part too. Katt, whether you felt so or not, it came across to me as condescending as well. =(
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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11-12-2008 18:09
What a load of orange colored crap there is in this thread.
Katt:- "Good ideas. I'll pass them on" (like anyone in LL will be interested, even if she does it, which I doubt)
Katt:- "You can play SL for free" (we at LL don't give a shit about you)
Zee:- I can't believe the brain that conceived the idea to post how good Q3 has been for LL right in the middle of LL stealing from so many people. Isn't there amy semblance of a consience in LL? Frankly, Zee, I doubt that anyone is in the slightest bit interested in how well LL is doing at this time, and many will never be interested again after the bait and switch caper. Or to put it another way, now is *NOT* a good time to crow about how well LL is doing.
Note: I've never owned an island - OS or otherwise - and I'm not financially affected in the slightest by LL's unscrupulous actions, but I am incensed by them.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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11-12-2008 18:14
From: Ryanna Enfield Since all of these options cost LL money, it is doubtful they will even look at the post, but... I love the idea of more perks over time! Customer Loyalty is a good business model.
Agreed on the last part too. Katt, whether you felt so or not, it came across to me as condescending as well. =( Increasing stipends won't cost SL a penny.
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Aminom Marvin
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Join date: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 520
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11-12-2008 18:16
Is there a place where one can find historical statistics for Supply Linden transactions and total L$ money supply figures? These are among the most useful, but they do not seem to be found.
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Katt Linden
Senior Member
Join date: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 256
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11-12-2008 18:21
I'd appreciate it if y'all would keep this thread on topic and if you would please refrain from attacks.
Thank you.
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Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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11-12-2008 18:25
From: Katt Linden I'd appreciate it if y'all would keep this thread on topic and if you would please refrain from attacks.
Thank you. I'll translate: "please leave me alone"
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Jini Hammerer
The green chick
Join date: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 196
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11-12-2008 18:28
From: Aminom Marvin Is there a place where one can find historical statistics for Supply Linden transactions and total L$ money supply figures? These are among the most useful, but they do not seem to be found. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxbDc4B2FH95uo0x67N5CIw
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Katt Linden
Senior Member
Join date: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 256
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11-12-2008 18:33
From: Dekka Raymaker I'll translate: "please leave me alone" Not at all. I'm happy to talk with you all. If you have questions for Zee on the economy however, this is a good opportunity to ask them.
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Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,458
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11-12-2008 18:34
From: Katt Linden I'd appreciate it if y'all would keep this thread on topic and if you would please refrain from attacks. Thank you. People just get frustrated when you open a thread saying you will answer questions and respond to comments for a day and then halfway through you decide to NOT answer questions or respond to comments. I posted a comment on page 5 of this thread and you ignored it - some also commented their posts were ignored also. We all know someone in marketing made you start this dialog - but please do try to deal with the unwashed masses (your customers - that pay your salary) for the time that you said you would. Thanks. .
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Katt Linden
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Join date: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 256
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11-12-2008 18:43
From: Lias Leandros People just get frustrated when you open a thread saying you will answer questions and respond to comments for a day and then halfway through you decide to NOT answer questions or respond to comments. I posted a comment on page 5 of this thread and you ignored it - some also commented their posts were ignored also. We all know someone in marketing made you start this dialog - but please do try to deal with the unwashed masses (your customers - that pay your salary) for the time that you said you would. Thanks.
. Sure, I understand, it's difficult not to hear responses back to your questions. I'll try to circle back and answer outstanding ones. Zee and I have been answering questions on and off all day, but boy that day can go by fast! Thanks for your patience, and for being interested enough to participate here.
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Rodders Holgado
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Join date: 27 Nov 2006
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11-12-2008 18:44
From: Katt Linden Not at all. I'm happy to talk with you all.
If you have questions for Zee on the economy however, this is a good opportunity to ask them. Why do you continue to ignore a customer that pays almost $US4000 a month in tier?? I have taken my opportunity to ask my question, now please answer it. LL's decision to introduce Open Spaces caused demand for full primmed sims to fall to the point that they were unviable. I had no choice but to convert my full primmed sims to Open Spaces. I did this in order to survive and it was as a direct result of LL's policies that I was forced to do this. In the process I was forced to spend thousands of dollars. Having paid a heavy price for your policies, polcies which were a major blunder on LL's part you are now forcing my tiers up 67%, and at the same time issuing my Open Spaces with further restrictions, making them completely unviable, forcing me to shut up shop at a loss of thousands of dollars that I am yet to recoup I have paid for your policy errors once, why am I being forced to pay for them a second time? Answer the question the questions of substance please, not the Mickey Mouse ones.
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Aminom Marvin
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Join date: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 520
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11-12-2008 18:45
Ah, I found some good metrics (including the ones I just posted about) linked to on the first page. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxbDc4B2FH95uo0x67N5CIwThere is still one key metric that would be valuable which I have not seen: historical data on Supply Linden sales from Jan 2005 to present. Could a Linden direct me to where these are posted? Some quick notes: The money supply and L$/USD ratio are the only important metrics for determining L$ economy growth and health- and thus are a strong indicator of SL's general economy. An increase in the money supply along with a stable L$/USD ratio would mean a growing economy (as new Lindens would be minted to supply the demand for more money in a larger economy.) When the economy grows, LL wins, BIG TIME, because they can print Lindens out of thin air, selling them via Supply Linden. That is all profit for them. Look at the trend in L$ supply. Ever single month there has been an increase except for October, which saw the first decrease ever (this month to date has seen a decrease as well.) The general trend for 2008 has been a continued slowing until October, where we are seeing negative growth. user-to-user transactions are not an indicator of economic growth or health, as they only represent _volume_ of trades. For the L$ economy, the fundamentals are not strong. Supply is contracting to maintain a fixed demand goal.
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Gordon Wendt
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11-12-2008 18:45
Not sure if I agree with the second part of your statement on page five since it seems like that's free market dynamics at work both in the auction and after the auctions but I'm interested also about an update on the former (mainland plans) if one is possible. From: Lias Leandros People just get frustrated when you open a thread saying you will answer questions and respond to comments for a day and then halfway through you decide to NOT answer questions or respond to comments. I posted a comment on page 5 of this thread and you ignored it - some also commented their posts were ignored also. We all know someone in marketing made you start this dialog - but please do try to deal with the unwashed masses (your customers - that pay your salary) for the time that you said you would. Thanks. .
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Gordon Wendt
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11-12-2008 18:47
100 L$ says that either there is no response from the Lindens to your question or they tell you what I'd tell you which is to take it to the proper thread and let the rest of us deal with the topic of this thread in peace. From: Rodders Holgado Why do you continue to ignore a customer that pays almost $US4000 a month in tier?? I have taken my opportunity to ask my question, now please answer it...
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Rodders Holgado
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11-12-2008 18:49
From: Gordon Wendt 100 L$ says that either there is no response from the Lindens to your question or they tell you what I'd tell you which is to take it to the proper thread and let the rest of us deal with the topic of this thread in peace. I reckon I'll end up owing you $L100..........................and you will get it.
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Gordon Wendt
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11-12-2008 18:50
From: Rodders Holgado I reckon I'll end up owing you $L100..........................and you will get it. If your serious about that do me a favor and donate it to NCI, they do great work and I don't need the money nor would I use it as well as I'm sure they would.
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Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
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11-12-2008 18:51
Zee, I think a lot of these numbers are very misleading. If one(or a business) was to base whether or not to invest in this platform based on these numbers they would be making an extremely misinformed decision.
ie: the growth of landmass metric that spurred recent investment in a particular type of product.
Not important I guess, just my opinion, but legally it does look very iffy.
And yes Katt, we can all survive in SL on a free accounts. But can SL/LL?
(( just so you know where I am coming from, Katt... /me is an Estate owner, community builder, content creator, beta tester, AWGroupy, Gridnaut, Jira-er, and been around this GAME much longer that this account is old, and who just put in tickets to poof my estate and drop to a free account. It is utterly sad and confusing to me that my business(a cold hard 1500usd a month) is so NOT appreciated. ))
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Aminom Marvin
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11-12-2008 18:54
hooking just casually at these metrics (L$ supply, USD exchanged, and businesses with positive monthly flow) it is obvious that Q3 was not "a strong quarter" but we have seen stagnant growth with even a bit of negative recent growth. It's very clear that not all is well in Linden Land, and almost useless metrics are used in favor of strong ones to try to spin it otherwise.
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Wildcat Furse
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Join date: 2 Jan 2008
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11-12-2008 19:11
From: Katt Linden Sure, I understand, it's difficult not to hear responses back to your questions. I'll try to circle back and answer outstanding ones.
Zee and I have been answering questions on and off all day, but boy that day can go by fast!
Thanks for your patience, and for being interested enough to participate here. Well a day is 24hrs and a week is 7 days, there is time enough I guess to answer! Everyone still waits for a clear answer on the 2592 posts referring OS. Sorry it is 2592-(5 posts from LL staff) = 2587. If ya want to have some add value contribution dont participate in this thread and use your time more valued, customers are not interested in 'key metrics', believe me ! If this would be my RL company 'goodnews' NEW THREADS can only be opened when the OLD THREADS are resolved by a common agreement! (common = supplier + customer) some coaching before I go off (keep this 3 rules in your heads); 1. common objective 2. trust 3. communication maybe brainstorm with the LL team about how ya are going to improve this moving forward (also discuss this statement : WE WANT TO OFFER A RESULT) If someone at LL feels attacked, then ya are too emotional involved, cause I shoot on the ball not on the players !
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Seavah Bedrosian
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Join date: 28 Nov 2007
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Membership has its privileges
11-12-2008 19:18
Possible ideas for making membership more attractive:
*I'll put in my vote for increasing the allowed tier-free land holding. *I also like the idea of allowing premium members to join more groups. *How about raising the number of messages an offline premium member can have before being capped? *Offer ability to have only *some* messages forwarded to e-mail. For example, if a certain friend messages me, I might want to know that; but I might not want to get e-mails of messages from *everyone*. *Offer more profile options: allow more locations in the Picks tab, allow custom-created tabs, allow more pictures, allow more text, allow the option of making most material in one's profile private. *Allow an easier and more thorough "masking" of online status (a checkbox on the login window specifying "log in as invisible" would be great). *Allow a small number (maybe 10 or 20?) free texture uploads per month. *Grant ability to change name for free, maybe once per year (perhaps with an identity provenance on one's profile). *Give ARs priority status.
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