Rolling Restart to deploy 1.24.5, 2008/09/10-12

"incompetent" comes to mind

Only Place these rollouts are rolling is downhill

The amount of unmanaged memory and bad .NET handling is atrocious

It's either that or your beta testers are about as good as an itch.

I can see the potentional in adopting Mono for multiplatform .NET support But if this is how your client is handling in the backbone of the .NET framework, i'd hate to see it running in a VM.

My Rant for today..

Really? "Whiny newbie" comes to mine. That and "clueless".

Why are you babbling about the .net framework?

Well since you have no clue what the .NET framework is there is no point me explaining what MONO is and what it was created for in the first place.

On the other hand, the "Date on account" newbie thing gets somewhat tedious.

So what i'm saying is you're the one with "?" in your sentences meaning you're the one thats clueless to what i'm talking about and to what, when and where dealings i have had in SL.

You're a prime example of why "newbies" don't come back.

Maybe one of the Lindens will enlighten you what MONO and the .NET framework is someday.

I sure ain't gonna waste my time on arrogance...

On a brighter note, How long is a server build tested inhouse before it becomes a rollout?

Is the preview server load tested with script executions or avatar clone loaded?

I went for a walk today, and I came across a large building site. The site had been fenced off, but the builders had allowed circular holes in the fencing to let the public see what was happening. There were two people peering in and criticising the builders for having a cup of tea.

I got home and read this forum and it struck a cord. Please lets not beat up the Lindens because they choose to share what they are doing. The last forum got closed down because of "fighting". Lets be critical, but positive, and try to imagine how tense the Office in SF must be right now. They do not need us adding to that tension.

I welcome the candour but there is a world of differencebetween critical comment and sheer rudeness.

Thats fine till you put that building site in the middle of the road, then expect all the drivers to be happy they cant drive the same road they have always went through without a half built site in the way, i have no issues with lindens work on their service, but these rollouts are happening too close to each other and too many rollouts and rollbacks in a short span show me the code/patches/servers on each has not been tested properly and the fact the 40 - 50 thousand users online at any given time have to suffer the disturbance and lose business,transactions,moments without reason...i think the best they could do is limit the updates to the extent they are bigger patches and not complete issues over a select few.


As for been rude, i don't think i am, if you were in a hospital and depending on a organ and the carrier decided to take three spins around the block to make sure his tires worked then you got it too late, wouldn't you, your friends and family be upset?, hence the word incompetent would be used to the carrier for not been able to do his job and get you what you wanted and in the time alloted.

As for arguing, i wasn't...i was just replying to the newbie statement....happens way too much in SL, newcomers been treated bad in areas.

I'm all for a multi platform Client though being a multiplatform user myself, just feel i cant use the service as it stands at the moment, i've been logged out, crashed so many times this week it aint funny anymore.

Even running the SL RC Viewer in debug mode in VS 2008 Professional has become annoying.

But as i said earlier, i was ranting and annoyed, we can all get like that when something just does not work right, this situation is no different.

What is all the ranting about? I've been running the new RC on the new server code since it was rolled out and I don't see any of these supposed horrible things you're going off about. I've had one crash and when I checked on it the cause is already reported, and I've had one involuntary logoff and that was my fault for not vacating the sim before it restarted! As someone who's been around long enough to remember the previous way of rolling out new code where we were locked completely out of SL for 1/2 to 3/4 of a day, this rollout scheme where we get some restarts is way preferable. The new RC is not without bugs, but it's supposed to have bugs, it's an RC for pete's sake! And there is no way to test the server code on a system as complex and busy as the main grid, so don't go there. Do us all a favor and stop the ranting with off-the-wall comparisons to RL nonsense that don't give anyone a clue to why you had your crash, and put some of your energy into bug and crash reporting on the JIRA. And if you would take the time to read Prospero's comments in this and other blogs you'd know how they test simulator code ... and other blogs describe how they test viewer code. And as for the "noob" comment you had aimed at you, if you walk like a duck and quack like a duck and rant like a duck, hon you're a duck!

Crashed every time I've logged on since Wednesday, I think. Just crashed again, tried to get back on, and was told my region is restarting. Nothing on the status grid, so I'm guessing this is a weekend free-for-all.

Off to try again.

Just happened again, except when I tried to log in again I was told the region was beginning the log-out process.

Looking like a long Saturday.

Has anyone else noticed animations not stopping on command, much more often than they used to?

Over the past week or so, I've been having problems with starting/stopping scripted animations. Often, animations are not ending when I stand or stop them. It is not an issue of not waiting long enough; once an anim gets in this state, it never seems to end. Very noticable when AO 'stands' now sometimes simply go on forever when the AO is stopped. I've noticed this on two computers, and nothing has changed recently on either.

I've seen this with viewer 1.20.15 as well as an old Nicholaz-BE client, so I believe it is server-related. The dance balls and furniture involved have not been recompiled under Mono, nor has my AO. I don't see a Jira on this, which is not surprising since it is a statistical thing ... this always happened occasionally, it just happens much more often than on previous server builds. But it is frequent enough that it's become very annoying.

I've also seen VWR-8221 (Avatar bends and sways on Stop Animations) -- glad to see a fix in the pipeline!
.

I have seen this weirdness with stopping animations as well. Looks like a bit of Yoga. More amusing than annoying I'd say. I can always manage to get out of it by doing stop animations a few times.

I second this! These threads are sometimes too painful to read — the amount of kvetching about SL and it's supposed incompetence is just annoying. Even though I see quite a bit of weirdness in these restarts I just remind myself of the incredible wonder that there is in SL — and the fact that it is, for almost all users, FREE. The restarts are meant to offer improvements for all of those users, as well as the minority who are in business here.

Good work Prospero, and the rest of the team.

Right. And maybe you should learn the difference between a standard/API and the specific implementation of one before you get all frothy in the mouth.

Also it's just Mono (or even mono) not MONO, bright boy.

I was not referring to you at all. It was a general comment about the overall tone of this forum. Prospero and his colleagues must read it and despair sometimes. The forums all too often give LL the impression that we think they mess up on purpose. I am confident they are doing all they can in a complex and unforgiving environment. I am as frustrated as anyone when I can't log in, or my customers can't purchase my goods. But I am encouraged that the LL team are giving their all to make the magic happen. They do deserve our support.

PS... how do I get my hair back on????

I lost mine too, in a store shopping this morning during the restarts. (I could see it on, but no one else could — and rebaking didn't help.) But it came back just now when I logged in.

Nika,

I have noticed animation issues since the mono deployment to my sim, that weren't there before. When I posted someplace about it, some other residnets jumped in my face and told me just how many months (years?) animations have been broken.

I am new with using some animations in my scripting, and I thought some of my problems were ineptness on my part. I have one item in which you "sit" on, but which is supposed to stop the sit animation and invoke a standing animation. Most of the time, lately, all I see is a sit animation.

case 2: I have a chair with a posed sit animation in it. I have noticed that whoever sits in it is sometimes drifting above the seat. Initially with the mono rollout, anyone sitting in the seat was also rotated 90-degrees, so it appeared that the person was laying down on his side, almost a fetal position, above the chair. When I first saw this, reverting back to a Nicholaz viewer didn't correct the problem. It has gradually improved with the sim updates.

I am seeing frequent freeze-ups now, which i had first attributed to the new viewer, but everyone around me is effected by the freezeups at the same time, and are sometimes/often on older viewers. I think it must be a sim-side freeze. Sometimes, the audio sputters, which in the past has been an indication that I am being disconnected.

1st life or 2nd live, interuptions are interuptions and loss of money is that.

As for crashing, it happens regular for many people, just have to watch to notice that and i am no exception, just because your viewer doesnt crash doesnt mean it's stable, as for explaining my crash, this is not the place for that as you obviously noted to yourself in your counter rant.

I don't go around searching all blogs for indication of testing methods, i work most days and im not gonna waste my time searching for it, it was a brief question that i didnt expect to be answered anytime soon from someone who works the grid, not someone who sits in it daily.

As for the testing viewer comment, i didn't ask about the viewer, i know the viewer, i asked about the preview grid...as for the testing on the live grid, you seem to not understand what i meant when i said the versions were too close together, hence the new fixes weren't actually fully tested..but yeah i had enough of this discussion.

The End!

Crashed another two or three times, restarted my computer, repaired permissions, looked for new software, logged on again, crashed again. Tracked the trouble to the fact that LL cancelled my groovy RC with all the neat-o builders' features and stuck me with a new RC two or three days ago. The new RC was the disaster. So I trashed it and had to upload the regular viewer. No groovy builders' features, and texture loading is insanely slow.

I guess I can either hope that they come up with a stable RC or a new viewer with the features I liked.

Sigh.

Oi -- just deleted a flamewar. Guys, please keep the discussion civil and reasonable here. Avoid off topic posts. Avoid attacking rants. (And, yes, I deleted the posts in the flamewar that were defensive of Linden Lab too -- I appreciate the sentiment, but I wanted the entire flamewar out of here.)

Remember a few things : constructive discussion is useful. Rants about how awful everything is are not. If you have problems with your account, contact support. If you find problems with the new deploy, you can discuss them as long as it doesn't turn into a rant, although often it's better to file a public JIRA with a reproducable description of the problem. These rolling restart threads are about *server* issues, not client issues, as there are no client experts from Linden reading these threads.

I am going to close this thread now, as the 1.24.5 rolling restart is complete. Watch for a status blog announcement of 1.24.6 and the forum thread to go with it.