SL is a scam.

I came to SL wet behind the ears a few months ago. Like most people, I was totally overwhelmed and excited about everything I saw in the world. However, after some time playing and being a land owner and renting on private estates, I now come to the conclusion that SL is a scam and I will not invest any more money into this system.

I do not like the prevalent attitude here in SL. It's all about business and selling and making a profit. SL's land pricing scheme is too expensive and forces any land owner to pay tier fees in perpetuity. Depending on the size of the land, that can turn into a car payment...for the rest of my life! As a result, unless you're rich and have money to burn, every land owner must use their land in a way that will generate some kind of income to help pay for tier fees. So, I can't buy a 1/2 sim and build a lovely place for my friends to enjoy. No, I've got to charge them because of this screwy pyramid scheme LL has created.

Users who pay for and build on the ML are screwed unless they buy large parcels of land. Why? Because anyone who buys smaller parcels of land, at least 1/4 sim or below, is at the mercy of what other people build around them. If you don't have enough land to give yourself an open border around what you build, you are subject to the annoying harassment of ad farms. LL does NOTHING to give legitimate users an option to block annoying objects from view. We just have to take it. We have no power while morons buy small parcels of land, split them up into 16 and 64 sqm of land just to put up annoying, flashy, repetitious ads. Not even in real life is there such unregulation when it comes to advertising. LL continues to allow users to abuse others by allowing them to create such small parcels and destroy what little beautiful scenery legitimate users themselves try to create.

And where does that leave the rest of us? Well, if we want peace, we either have to give in to the ad farms and buy them out at extortion level prices or move to a bigger parcel of land or to a private estate. In effect, more extortion but this time coming from LL. You want peace? Buy a bigger parcel i.e. more money to LL. You want peace? Rent from a private estate where one never knows when the estate owner is just going to give up or not be able to pay those tier fees and where most of your freedom is taken away in lieu of community conformity.

I am giving up on SL. I really thought it was going to be a vehicle for creativity but now I've realized that the best I can do is go out and learn proper 3D modeling and texturing and simply wait for the next virtual world. There are companies out there providing tools to allow one to create a whole virtual world, for free. Take multiverse.com, for example. They even provide the server technology so one can run their own world right from their bedroom. With other companies doing things like this, I just cannot continue to justify paying LL their monthly tier fees, which are, in effect, fees for tiny pieces of land compared to what can be built using tools like multiverse or even the Unreal Editor.

I am hoping that the prospect of open source servers solves this issue. If all I have to do is pay for a server and with that the ability to have complete and total freedom, then I'm in. I'd gladly pay a server connection fee or whatever silly scheme LL comes up with to charge people for the "privilege" of running their own servers. But, for now, I just can't see myself investing in SL anymore. It's not worth it. It is sad really. My attitude has gone from how can I invest in SL to what can I get out of SL. My attitude has gone from what kind of free services I can provide people in SL to how can I make money off of people. This is sad really. Capitalism at its finest, I suppose...

So LL should give you server space for free? Why? I'm not rich, I don't have money to burn, I just didn't buy land that I couldn't afford to pay tier on.



So there are companies out there who allow you to make a whole virtual world for free? Then why are you waiting for the next virtual world? Why not just build your own version of SL? If you really can create and host a virtual world from your bedroom, and make it stable, then there's about 9,000,000 SL users who'd love to play in it.

And if you're going, can I have your stuff?

Why is it that these types of posters always follow a pattern of issues? I don`t buy this posting. Its just a alt posting again and again and again!

Well, they are a business and that's what businesses do.



I guess you believe that LL should be generous enough to provide you free space on their servers...for the rest of your life!



You're right. How dare they not allow you to pay a onetime price for a full sim so you can use part of it and provide the lovely buffer you'd like around your build so you didn't have to look at other builds. Wouldn't that just be nice. LMAO



Don't let the door hit you on the ass.



There is AMAZING creativity throughout SL. Just because it wasn't the medium for you, doesn't make it bad.

Seriously, Pablicious, clearly SL is not for you. That is neither good nor bad. Do you go on this type of rant everytime you decide a product is not your thing? It must be very tiring. To call it a scam is absurd, however. None of the fees or charges you described are hidden. You were never coerced to purchase something that you didn't know you were getting unless you failed to check what you were getting into.

Have a nice life. Hope you find something out there that works for you.

yea go play with multiverse, if you couldn't figure out balance vs tier id like to see you figure out the half page of C++ just to render a untextured cube

I wish that were true. I think SL happens to be a drama queen magnet for some reason.

They tell you what the costs are before you ever sign up. They offer a way to enjoy participating at no cost. There are ways to earn money in-world if you wish. How is this a scam?

Is Beverly Hills a scam because only rich people get to live there? Are Ferraris a scam because only rich people get to own them?

I wouldn't really expect businesses in SL to try and NOT make money either...
Calling something a scam just because you don't like it is not very mature either. The whole world is a scam if you think like that. Think someone is charging extortionist prices? Well, go somewhere else. The Grid is a huge place.

Keeping things in perspective, Pablicious, can help you maintain that excited feeling that you had when you started.

Remember that no one visiting your parcel is judging you by the crap that your neighbors put up. Just set a good example by building something fabulous. I notice that when I'm enjoying someone else's beautiful land parcel, I couldn't care less what is next door, and the view, or lack thereof, doesn't bother me. In fact, the sh*t next door only makes the parcel look better in comparison. Why I'm so obsessed with it on my own parcels, I'll never know. The less we show that we are affected by ad farms and other monstrosities, the less power they will have to extort anything from us.

Take note that Times Square in New York, which some have described as "the Center of Everything," is basically an ad farm. Second Life is just humanity in a virtual format. We have to expect to see greed and evil in there, otherwise you'd just get Disneyland.

(Disclaimer required for the argument-obsessed: If anyone tries to turn this into a debate over whether Times Square is the center of everything, you are colossally missing my point, because I don't necessarily think that).

-Avion

Cliff notes version please.

Even my own posts are too long for me these days.

"Businesses want me to pay for things and I don't want to. LL wants me to pay for land and I don't want to. I want SL to be like Unreal, where I can create stuff without others bothering me, and it's free. I'm leaving SL."

Or.."I came here to get rich in 6 days. I did'nt. This sucks."

(Publicious Pessoa) described exactly what SL actually is when he said “I've got to charge them because of this screwy pyramid scheme LL has created”.

You pinned it perfectly Publicious. That’s exactly what SL has become, a pyramid scheme cutly packaged as entertainment. If it wasn’t for the friends I’ve made on SL, who I would very much miss if I were to leave, I’d be G_O_N_E! I’ve scaled down from the $25/month teir to the $8/month teir, just enough land to put up a small place were friends and I can meet and enjoy ourselves.

Of course there are always thoes like (Wulfric Chevalier) who are so anxious to come running to LL’s defense that their toes twitch non stop, who spews forth dribble like this “So there are companies out there who allow you to make a whole virtual world for free? Then why are you waiting for the next virtual world? Why not just build your own version of SL? If you really can create and host a virtual world from your bedroom, and make it stable, then there's about 9,000,000 SL users who'd love to play in it”.

Wulfric, DIDN’T say HE was going to do it, twit! He just made the observation that there ARE companies out there that offer the technology to allow SOMEONE the ability to do it… I.E. Someone with the know how, and the desire!

Gezz, why is it that the trolls spill forth so quickly if anyone even thinks about making critical statements with regards to the LL's and their on going efforts to make a killing from their eventual sale of SL? Its not like there aren't problems for goodness sake!

Just my 2 cents worth of 1 cents worth of comment.

LOL. Thanks Darien. I wasn't expecting that.

I guess it's that time of year when everybody says they're leaving but the population actually explodes by several million. If they stuck to their main accounts instead of creating alts, that wouldn't happen.

The clear implication of the statement by the OP was that there were other companies who would allow one to create a virtual worlkd for free from one's own bedroom:

There are companies out there providing tools to allow one to create a whole virtual world, for free. Take multiverse.com, for example. They even provide the server technology so one can run their own world right from their bedroom.

So my question was simply, if it can be done for free so easily why aren't you doing it? The whole point was that the OP didn't s/he WAS going to do it, but implied that it was so easy to do that there could be no excuse for him/her not doing it.

Wulfric, the “clear implication” of Publicious original post was to me, that companies exist which offer certain technologies and services, that in the hands of certain people, could allow them to offer a product such as SL at a considerably cheaper cost to end users.

Come on now, just for a moment pretend one isn’t an employee of LL. Added up, $9.95/month for a “Premium” account (what’s so premium about it other than you are now allowed to pay LL’s even more money every month to own land?… example, no more support, in or out of world), plus say $25/month to “own” a VERY small piece of land (in essence nothing more than a tiny bit of HD space), comes to $34.95/month to socialize in a “virtual” world! I find it hard to believe that very many people actually turn any significant profit “playing” SL. I’m sure a tiny percentage do, but even the ones who try, don’t. Now, given your accretion at the end of your reply to the original post that 9 million people play SL (and we know that’s not true but, assuming that 1 in 4 are “premium” account holders and that half of them “own” “land”, that comes to $50,512,500/month of income (of course I know none of the above assertions are correct)! Even at only 1/10th of that ($5,051,250/month) it’s a LOT of income (over $60 million/year).

Now understand, I’m NOT saying I could ever begin to run an enterprise like SL (hell I’m grateful every time I sit down to “play” if the computer starts up, Vista works and I can get on and stay on SL), but there are people out there with the technical Savy that could, and I’m certain with current or near current technologies, at a lower cost to the end users if they desired. I would bet (and I’m NOT a gambler) that competition is being worked on as we type!

I just think that as end user prices have risen, so has the profit margin for LL, who as I first understood it, didn’t create SL as a commercial venture. Now perhaps I’m mistaken or, perhaps LL has re-thought their original motives for becoming involved with something like SL. I just know that even though I can still well afford to continue to “play” SL many people can no longer afford Premium accounts and land ownership and dose this not throttle creativity within SL (which as again I understand it, was the whole point of it in the beginning)?

Again just my 2 cents worth of 1 cents worth of opinion.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I want you to understand that you don't have to pay a dime if you don't want to. And if you don't mind spending a few bucks here and there, you can just rent a suite or office space somewhere.

If you are into content creation, and have high standards, you can recoup your rent money pretty easily--and have fun and learn while doing it.



Not necessarily. You can find a nice suite that is either PG rated, or has a set of standards suitable to your attitude. There are places (like Silicon Island) that are constructed with design and flow in mind--where you can not alter (structurally) the office space, and never have to fear for clutter or obnoxious content.

You make of SL what you want. I've been on a basic account since '05, and I'm having a blast, making money, creating content, all the while quaintly tucked away amongst other business owners. It doesn't cost much at all to pull from Second Life the positives. It's when you feel like you have to 'keep up with the Joneses', and can't escape the rat race...when you're not having fun, it's time to move on.




Yes, this is the case...but we've all heard the phrase, 'caveat emptor.' Just make sure you shop around--there are some pretty solid land-owners in SL. People with scruples and dignity. You just have to find them. You have all the time in the world on a basic account to find the right community.




My goodness...how can you say that SL isn't a vehicle for creativity? It most certainly is. What ever form of creation you prefer...it's here. 2D, 3D, design, illustration, photography, machinima...the list goes on and on. You have to ask yourself...do you want to learn 3d modeling or 2d design? Well...keep in mind, those of us that produce quality work in SL didn't get there overnight. Many of us spend long tedious hours in school learning--not just for profit, but also for the love of it. We practice and are constantly learning...I think we deserve a little more credit. SL IS a vehicle yes...but you first have to learn how to drive. Second Life isn't going to build that house for you...YOU have to do it. And hopefully, it's something you want to do.

If you want to create content--you are free to do so. If you want people to buy your content so you can support your rent, you have to have a product that is appealing to the consumer. If you have no interest in content creation, then you have to ask yourself whether you think SL (as a community and virtual space) has enough positive traits to keep you around...if it doesn't, perhaps it's time to move on. It's all about the enjoyment of it...and we all gather enjoyment in different ways. Just don't expect to profit without a skill set--both in SL and in RL.

I'm not trying to be harsh (although I can inadvertently be sometimes)--I'm trying to stress that you can have fun, learn to create, enjoy the community, and explore, all the while sitting on a basic account. It's their world, YOUR imagination....ummm...you know what I mean.

Did you make this statement with one or more feet in the door? Or are you holding the door open as you speak?

'SL is a scam'.... By your statement, you perhaps picked the wrong platform in which to participate. What is perhaps a scam is that you didn't come prepared, or like some teenager who sees what his parents have built up over a lifetime, wondering why they can't suddenly have it all.

A lot of what you perceive as being a scam is perhaps based on the 'gimme now' perspective that many have when they arrive off the bus, having departed from some glossy magazine page, stating that the streets of SL are paved with gold.

I would hardly call a couple of months wandering about looking for the gold paved streets, a threshold from which to make a mature blanket statement.

The only scam is that you have a very narrow veiwpoint. Don't slam the door on the way out, it's still being painted.

Well put, Mr. Bigwig. Well put, indeed.

I, personally, didn't find it harsh at all. (It was written a whole heck of a lot nicer than I would have phrased the sentiment! *lol*)

Yes. Final words it is virtual capitalism. Someone like it someone don´t.

I have to say that I think there is a huge amount of creative freedom in SL, and it can all be done completely free of charge! Now it is true that if you want to buy land you have to pay for it but there is little arm-twisting involved.

I will say that agree there is a preponderance of advertising that, I believe, creates a huge number of problems on the mainland. I've posted on that issue in another thread so I won't waste time here belaboring the obvious.

A scam would indicate a conscious effort to deceive based on giving false information to mislead someone.

SL can hardly be accused of doing that.

It's a scam!?!?

I'm outta' here.

Damn, it's just like that WORLD OF WARCRAFT PYRAMID SCHEME, I JUST WENT THERE TO SLAY SOME VIRTUAL ORKS AND INSTEAD BUILD UP A CHARACTER AND MADE FRIENDS, SO NOW I have to keep paying monthly forever for the priviledge of that or loose my freinds there and characters I built up. And I'm not making any RL money from selling these Murdloc skins and leather armor enhancement kits either. I knew I should have taken herbalism or alchemy skills.
Blizzard should let us have the game for free and play for free. My ISP should give me unlimited downloading and uploading for free at at least 100Gbps.
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No one told me SL could cost money... i never saw that being a premium member wasnt free... I never realised i couldnt do everything, without effort or commitment ... i have never come across capitalism before.... i wear a blindfold and ear defenders...i have no friends or mentors in SL... i know the truth,always.... i think carefully before i type .... i am never compulsive.... i am never selfish...SL isnt proper 3D modelling... i am at the mercy of everyone around me... i know where i am going.... you should come with me...




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You just made my day, mate!


And hey, I for once AGREE with Bigwig on something! (Okay, we've agreed before that Watership Down rocks.... )