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Transforming the Second Life Experience with Big Spaceship

Conrod Lane
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 8
11-03-2008 13:28
learning curve is too big for most folks it is as simple as that.
One week before I am made homeless (openspace issue) I would have thought LL would be more interested in sorting out the this issue !! Perhaps not !!
Cincia Singh
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Big Spaceship ... the right experience?
11-03-2008 13:29
As I look at the Big Spaceship website and browse the projects they've worked on, it strikes me that the game related projects they tout as successful have been aimed primarily at the 20-something age bracket user. Since SL is primarily dominated by mid-40's and up users and weighted somewhat toward women, are you sure you've picked a partner who knows how to design an experience for the right target audience? Just askin'
Lady Sakai
Registered User
Join date: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 22
11-03-2008 13:31
well well well Katt, I hope you guys realised that you just dove heads down in a huge hornets nest.

1. How in the world can LL top justify this after the lastest blunder with the OS wich havent even been resolved yet? People are still angry and angry customers do not recomend a product. That is just common sense.

2. you ask for suggestions so I guess I could comply (mainly cos Im slightly bored at the moment) Here they are:

a. First thing would be to better the wiewer. Like making sure it wont eat memory on the comps. Lates wiewer I cant even use its that bad, lag/crashes/etc. Im currently using the release client wich is a bit better but I cant use outside chat/voice programs (got a BF in canada) without lagging so bad Im pulling my hair out.
b. Lower prices dont raise them. Again back to the OS issue and other brilliant schemes to get our money. So this way we can provide nice land to residents comming in. Maybe even letting Estate owners advertise for free. Just an idea
c. Talking to my bf I realised that even manuvering around the help island is a huge challenge. Now I dont have any experiences with that so for me its difficult to say .... maybe the lag again is a big issue here
d. Main thing is to keep the residents you have and stop alianating ppl like the last 1½years.

Guess that is my two cents worth for now
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
11-03-2008 13:32
From: Conrod Lane
learning curve is too big for most folks it is as simple as that.

I don't think the curve is as much steep as it is long.

Unless you're doing content creation, SL is really pretty easy. There's just a ton of little things to learn..
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Sedary Raymaker
Registered User
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 59
11-03-2008 13:40
"without limiting the freedom and expressiveness that makes Second Life so powerful for so many people."

Good. That's the Governance Team's job, and I dislike redundancy.
Lion Ewry
Registered User
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 88
How about making it so people don't want to leave instead?
11-03-2008 13:41
Have you read the forums?------people are looking for other places to go--any place to go.

Your content creators made this the rich place it is--and the permanent residents were the ones that gave it stability. Theft is rampant, Search is so gamed that people have to use SLX instead. How many people--real people are really on SL anyway? Everybody knows it is far fewer than your numbers say!

And now (and I am not an owner of OS Sims)------all the manhours (not to mention the hundreds of thousands--if not millions of dollars) spent in creating places on your OS sims are going to go south---unless of course, people pay up! What is coming next?

It is not the first hour experiance LL, it is what people find out what happens after they have been here a while.......... That is why they don't stay.

So-----now that I have said all of that, Listen or not. I really don't care.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
11-03-2008 13:44
From: Katt Linden
Many Residents tell me that expanding the number of new Residents joining Second Life would be valuable for them. As customers, for one.

Perhaps you can see other value to Residents in making it easier to invite new folks into SL, and in making it easier for them to enjoy the experience?



Nobody enjoys being shafted by a 67% price hike, new or old residents and the lack of communication is shocking.

However new residents need some something to do when they get here. Some basic tasks to get them up and running, it's when they land and don't know what to do we lose them. They see items and they see objects but they have no money and no direction.

People aren't going to be customers unless they can see a sense of value, some sort of starting balance as suggested would be useful but that would be gamed as it stands right now. Maybe some gift vouchers could be setup.

Most of all there needs to be something fun to do.
Torben Trautman
Wish I could be!
Join date: 8 Dec 2006
Posts: 136
YAY for making the viewer easier
11-03-2008 13:45
I can´t wait seeing the results! There´s so many residents having issues dealing with the viewer, not only the new ones and together with the skinning project maybe one day I have my own viewer where things are at a place I like to see them *yay*...

I have a question though. While reading lots of the replies in the forum in different threads it seems to me that the Lab only has one developer so we have to choose between stability or user experience... Did I understand it right that like in other companies there´s different teams working on different issues?
theblackcloud Oh
Registered User
Join date: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 2
11-03-2008 13:47
From: someone
"Big Spaceship will be working with internal teams at Linden Lab to research, design, prototype and test web sites and user interfaces that dramatically lower the learning curve for experiencing Second Life."

Lower the learning curve! Wow this is great news! *Insert sarcasm here* Dumbing down is such a step in the right direction after the latest announcement... way to go Linden Labs!

Guess we know where our Open Sim cost increase is going or maybe I'm just bitter!
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-03-2008 13:49
From: Sedary Raymaker
"without limiting the freedom and expressiveness that makes Second Life so powerful for so many people."

Good. That's the Governance Team's job, and I dislike redundancy.
Oh, sting!
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Katt Linden
Senior Member
Join date: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 256
11-03-2008 13:49
From: Torben Trautman
I can´t wait seeing the results! There´s so many residents having issues dealing with the viewer, not only the new ones and together with the skinning project maybe one day I have my own viewer where things are at a place I like to see them *yay*...

I have a question though. While reading lots of the replies in the forum in different threads it seems to me that the Lab only has one developer so we have to choose between stability or user experience... Did I understand it right that like in other companies there´s different teams working on different issues?


That's right, there are different teams working on different issues.
Juko Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 2 Nov 2006
Posts: 1
Mentors?
11-03-2008 13:53
What a shame there is no mention of the Mentors who have given their time and enormous effort to the so called 'New User Experience' and the hypothetical First Hour.

The Mentor program has had a huge team of people who have given their time and effort tirelessly to helping new residents for many years, only to be thwarted by poor group management from LL at every turn.

This is a missed opportunity to draw on the experience of this group who have been working at the coal face, and a sad loss of another valuable resident resource as the Mentors lose heart.
Cinco Pizzicato
Registered User
Join date: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 30
11-03-2008 13:54
"With that in mind, we’re pleased to announce that Linden Lab has engaged award-winning interactive design agency Big Spaceship as a partner in transforming the Second Life experience."

I do not want you to consult with an outside company to transform my Second Life experience. My SL experience is that of trying to become an in-world consultant who makes SL better for everyone.

There are groups like NCI and other newbie-oriented groups which could, with the right incentive, create exactly what you need, and do it out of affection for the platform. Instead, you will end up with a thin layer of silly added on to existing infrastructure, and it will cost you a lot of money.

It is a big mistake.
ChatNoir Moonsoo
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 8
11-03-2008 13:56
>>Q: What is Big Spaceship doing for Second Life?
A: Big Spaceship will be working with internal teams at Linden Lab to research, design, prototype and test web sites and user interfaces that dramatically lower the learning curve for experiencing Second Life. Big Spaceship will employ a user-centered design methodology to develop innovative solutions for streamlining the complexity of Second Life without limiting the freedom and expressiveness that makes Second Life so powerful for so many people.<<<

Silly Us, who provided all that expertise free of charge...

I guess our mistake was to not charge LL big bucks for what we had to say.
Lesson learned..never talk with LL unless you're in a position to charge an upfront fee and then buck loads of money for advice that minimal experience in SW-development and online communities plus a dash of common sense would give you.

Oh...nevermind...the tens of thousands of users *trying* to talk to LL each and every day..who are they anyway? Peasants who have to deal with the product, not a source of feedback, advice, insight....
theblackcloud Oh
Registered User
Join date: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 2
11-03-2008 14:00
From: someone
"Big Spaceship will be working with internal teams at Linden Lab to research, design, prototype and test web sites and user interfaces that dramatically lower the learning curve for experiencing Second Life."

Lower the learning curve! Wow this is great news! *Insert sarcasm here* Dumbing down is such a step in the right direction after the latest announcement... way to go Linden Labs!

Guess we know where our Open Sim cost increase is going or maybe I'm just bitter!
foehn Breed
More random than random
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,142
11-03-2008 14:02
Nothing says "Stay!" like grumbling, rationed older residents.
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Cinco Pizzicato
Registered User
Join date: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 30
11-03-2008 14:04
From: ChatNoir Moonsoo
Silly Us, who provided all that expertise free of charge...

I guess our mistake was to not charge LL big bucks for what we had to say.
Lesson learned..never talk with LL unless you're in a position to charge an upfront fee and then buck loads of money for advice that minimal experience in SW-development and online communities plus a dash of common sense would give you.

Oh...nevermind...the tens of thousands of users *trying* to talk to LL each and every day..who are they anyway? Peasants who have to deal with the product, not a source of feedback, advice, insight....


This is exactly why I think SL is not such a great platform anymore. It's not the technology; it's the management.

If LL had announced that they were taking bids for first-hour improvement projects, I would have gleefully offered mine. I have a year in-world, and know what I'm talking about. But because there seems to be a view that in-world people are not qualified to offer substantive suggestions, LL spends a bunch of money on an economy *external to its own.*

LL: You could have paid me in Lindens. :-)
ChatNoir Moonsoo
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Stupid is as stupid does
11-03-2008 14:05
>>Q: What is Big Spaceship doing for Second Life?
A: Big Spaceship will be working with internal teams at Linden Lab to research, design, prototype and test web sites and user interfaces that dramatically lower the learning curve for experiencing Second Life. Big Spaceship will employ a user-centered design methodology to develop innovative solutions for streamlining the complexity of Second Life without limiting the freedom and expressiveness that makes Second Life so powerful for so many people.<<<

Silly Us, who provided all that expertise free of charge...

I guess our mistake was to not charge LL big bucks for what we had to say.
Lesson learned..never talk with LL unless you're in a position to charge an upfront fee and then buck loads of money for advice that minimal experience in SW-development and online communities plus a dash of common sense would give you.

Oh...never mind...the tens of thousands of users *trying* to talk to LL each and every day..who are they anyway? Peasants who have to deal with the product, not a source of feedback, advice, insight.... just cash-cows, to be milked with unjustified rate-increases without any benefits.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but LL seems to have a master plan in place to not only screw up things, but also to alienate their most loyal user base while charging them for ridicule.

There was a time when I brought in people by the dozen to LL.
Not anymore. I've been embarassed more than I can stand.
It is true that Sl has a lot of potential. But at one point you have to begin to *realize* that potential, not just *talk* about it.

We're past that point.
Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
11-03-2008 14:05
One thing I'll give Big Spaceship is that they might actually be able to make things easier to find on the website. That would be a BIG plus in my existing user experience. Let them have at the Support Portal too while you're at it.

In one thing I am very disappointed and that's in touting this as a new user experience sort of thing. How can it be, if it means much needed changes to the website? Or is it going to be a case of accounts created after a certain date are going to go to a new site and the rest of us are pretty much screwed? And that as new users hit a certain age, they get kicked in with the rest of us? Wow, that would really help user retention, huh? :p

And what a few of them are saying about this coming after the Openspace announcement is that it is being touted for the "new user experience," and "ease of inviting new users." This might have had a different reception if it had been aimed at ALL residents. Existing residents are left feeling that LL doesn't give a faint south end of a north bound rat about us at this point. And we're kinda getting tired of being kicked around, you see?
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GM Nikolaidis
SL clothing designer
Join date: 3 Jul 2007
Posts: 8
11-03-2008 14:20
From: theblackcloud Oh
Guess we know where our Open Sim cost increase is going or maybe I'm just bitter!


Nobody has paid the increased OS rates yet, and it remains to be seen if they actually will go forward with the increase.
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
11-03-2008 14:24
From: Raudf Fox
One thing I'll give Big Spaceship is that they might actually be able to make things easier to find on the website.

Have you seen _their_ website?
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
11-03-2008 14:24
At least we know where they went. All the while we thought the Big Spaceship was headed to Alabama. Somebody want to get on Youtube and tell that nice lady who told us all about it?

Is the big spaceship dropping off the the forum moderating team as well?
Phase Cydrome
Greetings From The F.N.R.
Join date: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 5
Speak To Me Magic Eight Ball....
11-03-2008 14:26
Lets not work on the current issues, lets not fix the current bugs, lets not employ server specialists to sort out the random crashes and sims going offline, lets not sort out getting better trainers (helpers), lets not sort out the current issues with the open sim price increases, lets not look after your CURRENT residents, Noooo.... Lets work on the website ......... cough... far more important.

The final part of the Q&A in relation to this on the blog (http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/11/03/transforming-the-second-life-experience/) says the following :

Q: How will this project affect current Residents?
A: In the near-term, as Big Spaceship designs and prototypes potential experiences, there will be no impact on current Residents. It’s our hope that by dramatically simplifying the initial user experience, many more users will be able to experience the excitement of Second Life, ultimately creating a richer and more diverse community of Residents.


re-wording this into more plain terms looks like this:

A: We dont have a clue how long it will take, as they may bodge it up more then is used to be, there will be no impact to our current residents apart from the fact we are going to be advertising more, getting more residents in world, and slowing the grid down even more, Many more users will be able to expirence the excitement of running like the six million dollor man (slow motion due to lag). ultimately, we dont have a clue what we're doing, all our ideas came from the magic eight ball we shock earlier...

Honestly. FIX THE BITS THAT ARE BROKEN BEFORE TACKING NEW BITS ON!

love n hugs Phase.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
11-03-2008 14:27
It's a Cookbook!!!!!!!!!!
Rodders Holgado
Registered User
Join date: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 14
Who Cares
11-03-2008 14:33
Katt,

When are you going to get the message. Until LL backs down on the extortion that is the $US125 a month tier increase on Open Spaces, we do not care about any other issue.

Plase stop wasting your time re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic and get the job done, as January 1 is all we care about.
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