okay so i might be wrong with my reasoning here, but I was just thinking. If you have a premium account and you get your L$500 a week, you will end up with L$26,000 in a year. A premium account membership (yearly) costs USD $72. Say if L$300 = USD $1.00 (saying in worst case) Your L$26,000 will give you USD$86.66. So by playing SL with a premium account, you basically make money... How is this possible?
Another point: Why do people pay more money on one premium account for more land? Why not just make 5 different premium accounts and use each 512sqm to buy one big parcel as group land. By doing this you wouldn't have to pay anything for more land.. and you make more money!??
I think my reasoning here must be wrong. Can someone please tell me if what I just said is true?.. because if it is then things don't make sense.
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Whats wrong with my reasoning about $L? |
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Vincent Brentano
Registered User
Join date: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2
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07-25-2009 22:13
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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07-25-2009 22:35
The weekly stipend for premium accounts created now is L$300, not L$500.
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Wulfric Chevalier
Give me a Fish!!!!
Join date: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 947
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07-25-2009 22:36
The weekly stipend has been L$300 for a long time, only a few still get the L$500.
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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07-25-2009 22:38
L$500 per week is for the real oldbies, then some get L$400 per week, but everyone now gets L$300 per week.
I actually did all the calcs quite a while back and I did have multiple premium accts to pay for my land rather than tier -- it is cheaper up to a point. However, it is even cheaper to simply rent the tier. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Pussycat Catnap
Sex Kitten
Join date: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1,131
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07-25-2009 22:43
9.95 monthly
7.50 a month if quarterly 6.00 a month if annual. For that you -get- 300L a week. Math time: 300x52 = 15600L a year. 15600 / 12 = 1300L a month. 1300L costs roughly $5. So the real cost to buy premium is: 4.95 monthly 3.50 if quarterly 1.00 if annual. For that you get a 512 plot of mature land (or PG if you're into limits) and 117 prims. You get an additional 10% (51m) if you put yourself into a group of 1 and deed your plot to your group. That will give you more prims if you merge that plot with you 512 - but that takes buying a lucky location. The cost of that plot in lindens is therefore: 1282L / month if monthly 906L / month if quarterly 259L / month if annual Add to this then the cost of actually buying the plot. Market conditions vary, but at the time of me writing this, its about 1.7L per square meter. - I do not know how that compares to renting on a private sim or subletting on mainland. _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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07-25-2009 22:46
Old accounts that used to get 500 L$ per week as premiums that have gone non-premium but now switch back to premium will only get the 300 L$ per week, correct?
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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07-26-2009 00:40
Old accounts that used to get 500 L$ per week as premiums that have gone non-premium but now switch back to premium will only get the 300 L$ per week, correct? Yes correct  That is why my annual premium will not downgrade at anytime soon _____________________
Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants.
http://slapt.me  slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26 |
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Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
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07-26-2009 03:03
okay so i might be wrong with my reasoning here, but I was just thinking. If you have a premium account and you get your L$500 a week, you will end up with L$26,000 in a year. A premium account membership (yearly) costs USD $72. Say if L$300 = USD $1.00 (saying in worst case) Your L$26,000 will give you USD$86.66. So by playing SL with a premium account, you basically make money... How is this possible? Another point: Why do people pay more money on one premium account for more land? Why not just make 5 different premium accounts and use each 512sqm to buy one big parcel as group land. By doing this you wouldn't have to pay anything for more land.. and you make more money!?? I think my reasoning here must be wrong. Can someone please tell me if what I just said is true?.. because if it is then things don't make sense. Actually, with your join date, you might get 500 a week. I do, and I didn't go premium til last year. The stipends have since been lowered to 300/week for new accounts, because the Lindens CAN do math. That's the problem. if you had 5 alts made in 2006, you could premiumize them all and do what you say, but any alts made nowadays will not make enough in stipend to make this idea work. _____________________
 ● Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com ● Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com ● Twitter: @WinterVentura |
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Lota Lyon
Registered User
Join date: 5 Oct 2006
Posts: 245
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07-26-2009 03:43
The stipends have since been lowered to 300/week for new accounts, because the Lindens CAN do math. That's the problem. if you had 5 alts made in 2006, you could premiumize them all and do what you say, but any alts made nowadays will not make enough in stipend to make this idea work. I started in SL in 2006, in early September and I only get L$400/month so the L$500/month ended sometime before that. If you get L$300/week and have 2 paid accounts you’d get L$2400/month or $9.00/month. Paying for 2 premiums yearly would cost you $12/month - the $9.00/month from your combined stipends which would mean your net cost would be $3.00 month and you could own 1024sq m free. Having just 1 yearly premium account 1024sq m would cost you $5/month - your $4.50 stipend or $.50/month. Going up in tier would cost you $5/month less with 2 accounts but still would add to your out of pocket cost so as stated its no longer possible to make out having 2 yearly premium accounts. Yes I think LL did the math after they had a certain number of premium accounts!  |
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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07-26-2009 04:52
It's been noted before, and verified by Residents who tried it, that old accounts that were created back when the stipend payment was L$500 a week, but which have NEVER been Premium so far, will if they sign up for Premium, get the old stipend rate. So technically, two of my oldest accounts could go Premium, and would get more in L$ than I pay each year in combined membership payments. A "profit" of $14.66 USD on one account, or $29.32 USD on both. In 2006 people WERE creating Premium accounts left and right to simply "Farm" that meagre profit, and LL reduced the stipend when they finally realized the rate they were paying out was costing them money on every "Paid" account.
But to get that "profit", I need to tie up $72.00 USD or $144.00 USD of my real funds for a full year, every year. Let's assume that I get those two accounts, collect my L$500 a week Stipend on both accounts, never buy any land (thus spend nothing to obtain it or in monthly tier) and never spend any of the L$. Once a month I cash it out to Pay Pal. Cashing out L$4000 at a time gets me $14.39 USD, and transferring that to my Pay Pal account costs a buck, so I get $13.39 USD. After one year, I have gotten $160.68 USD back from my $144.00 USD investment. $16.68 USD "profit". An 11.5% return on my "investment" after one full year. In practice, most people would spend at least L$4400 of that stipend over the year (unless the only reason they had the account was to farm it for profit), and thus would make no profit at all. If you have ever been premium and downgrade, and then later become Premium again with that account, it gets the new, lower stipend the second time around. I haven't included land flipping in these calculations, because the price of virtual land is in the toilet these days. But back when stipend was still L$500 a week, you also got that first 512 M2 of Mainland at just L$1 per m2, or L$512, and could turn right around and sell that for L$10 to L$20 per M2. Which is why LL killed the "First Land" program. Because when they finally did the math in mid 2006, they realized people were buying premium accounts for just one month. flipping the land, and cashing out and canceling the accounts before the second month payment was due, and profiting about 20 bucks on each brand new one-month throw-away account. Yes, LL has never been smart about what they offer, but eventually they realize it is costing them money, and they take away the offerings that are profitable to Residents. _____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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07-26-2009 05:46
oh that.s kind of nice..when i went to basic i thought i lost my 400 a week level..it's nice to know that if i go back to premium it will be there again..
It's not anything huge but it is nice to hear _____________________
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Kelli May
karmakanic
Join date: 7 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,135
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07-26-2009 06:02
Depending on where you live in the world (Europe, AFAIK, but there may be other places), Premium payments attract VAT of between 15 and 25%. Paying this made my premium account go from making a small amount of money to losing a small amount. That's at the L$400/week stipend for late 2006 accounts. Someone on the L$500 rate might still make a small profit, or at least break even.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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07-26-2009 06:17
oh that.s kind of nice..when i went to basic i thought i lost my 400 a week level..it's nice to know that if i go back to premium it will be there again.. The "takes one month to downgrade" business was a bummer if you had decided to downgrade the month they announced the stipend cut. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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07-26-2009 06:23
Nope, if you ever downgraded you get reset to 300. The "takes one month to downgrade" business was a bummer if you had decided to downgrade the month they announced the stipend cut. well pew pew on them then..now i am never ever ever never ever gonna do it now ferrr sure EVER NEVER!!hehehe seriously i would not let something like that stop me from going back..but i am curious..when i made my alt it was back when you had to pay to get an alt..would that one get it at 400? Not that i would make that my main for that reason ..but just curious to know for kix and giggles.. _____________________
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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07-26-2009 06:28
seriously i would not let something like that stop me from going back..but i am curious..when i made my alt it was back when you had to pay to get an alt..would that one get it at 400? _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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07-26-2009 06:35
I don't know, I didn't even know that there was an option of upgrading and getting the old stipend. I just know that if you ever downgraded you upgrade at 300. why did they ever lower it anyways? i mean they were getting a boost in population and more people buying land like crazy at the time..then i seen it dropped to 300 when things were really doing pretty well.. was it just a cheap move or was there some logical reason for it? _____________________
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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07-26-2009 06:44
why did they ever lower it anyways? _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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07-26-2009 08:03
<-- $500L
-still misses getting 2000-3000+ $L for a stipend.  _____________________
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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07-26-2009 08:10
That's the problem. if you had 5 alts made in 2006, you could premiumize them all and do what you say, but any alts made nowadays will not make enough in stipend to make this idea work. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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07-26-2009 08:10
Yes this is correct - all the other fees besides Premium fees are technically subsidizing people who go premium.
To either a very close to even deal with $300L, to a make a few bucks plan for the older residents. Yet STILL they have trouble convincing people to go premium. ---------- What will really blow your mind is they used to give NON-premiums stipends. And with the ratings bonus it amounted to a few hundred L$ a week. |
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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07-26-2009 08:18
I started in SL in 2006, in early September and I only get L$400/month so the L$500/month ended sometime before that. If you get L$300/week and have 2 paid accounts you’d get L$2400/month or $9.00/month. Paying for 2 premiums yearly would cost you $12/month - the $9.00/month from your combined stipends which would mean your net cost would be $3.00 month and you could own 1024sq m free. Having just 1 yearly premium account 1024sq m would cost you $5/month - your $4.50 stipend or $.50/month. Going up in tier would cost you $5/month less with 2 accounts but still would add to your out of pocket cost so as stated its no longer possible to make out having 2 yearly premium accounts. Yes I think LL did the math after they had a certain number of premium accounts! Here are the calcs at L$300 a week -- it is still worth it based on US$. Note that I figured L$265 per US$1 and I have actually been getting L$274 per US$1 lately on buys - so that makes it even cheaper to add another premium. Additionally, at the time that I did the calcs, I was paying quarterly -- paying yearly would make it even cheaper still to add another premium. ============================= One premium @ 22.50/qtr x 4 qtrs = $90.00 / yr .. L$300/wk x 52 wks (265 L$ rate) = -58.86 / yr results in a NET cost of $31.14 per year per premium acct .. (31.14 / 52 weeks = .60/wk usd, 31.14 / 12 = 2.60/mth usd) ... @265 L$ rate, 8,252 L$ per year net cost ........... (8252 / 52 weeks = 158/wk L$, 8252 / 12 = 688/mth L$). ~~~~~~~ 1024m - one premium: 31.14 / yr + $60 ($5 x 12 mths) tier = $91.14 / yr - two premiums: 62.28 / yr + $0 tier = $62.28 / yr ~~~~~~~ 1536m - one premium: 31.14 / yr + $96 ($8 x 12 mths) tier = $127.14 / yr - two premiums: 62.28/ yr + $60 ($5 x 12 mths) tier = $122.28 / yr - three premiums: 93.42 / yr + $0 tier = $93.42 / yr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2048m - one premium: 31.14 / yr + $180 ($15 x 12 mths) tier = $211.14 / yr - two premiums: 62.28 / yr + $96 ($8 x 12 mths) tier = $158.28 / yr - three premiums: 93.42 / yr + $60 ($5 x 12 mths) tier = $153.42 / yr - four premiums: 124.56 / yr + $0 tier = $124.56 / yr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2560m - one premium: 31.14 / yr + $180 ($15 x 12 mths) tier = $211.14 / yr - two premiums: 62.28 / yr + $180 ($15 x 12 mths) tier = $242.28 / yr - three premiums: 93.42 / yr + $96 ($8 x 12 mths) tier = $189.42 / yr - four premiums: 124.56 / yr + $60 ($5 x 12 mths) tier = $184.56 / yr - five premiums: 155.70 / yr + $0 tier = $155.70 / yr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 4096m - one premium: 31.14 / yr + $300 ($25 x 12 mths) tier = $331.14 / yr - four premiums: 124.56 / yr + $180 ($15 x 12 mths) tier = $304.56 / yr - six premiums: 186.84/ yr + $96 ($8 x 12 mths) tier = $282.84 / yr - seven premiums: 217.98/ yr + $60 ($5 x 12 mths) tier = $277.98 / yr - eight premiums: 249.12 / yr + $0 tier = $249.12 / yr ============================= Further calcs show it is even cheaper to rent the tier: If rent tier at .25 L$ sqm/wk, then 512 sqm (at 265 L$ to usd rate): .. 512 * .25 = 128 L$/wk (.48/ wk usd) .... * 52 weeks = 6656 L$/yr (25.12/yr usd) ....... / 12 months = 555 L$/mth (2.09/mth usd) PER 512 RENTED _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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07-26-2009 09:42
Isn't there a joining fee for Premium accounts as well as subscription? I've forgotten as it's so long since I went Premium.
Also, as you increase the tier levels, the deal gets better. If you wanted to own a quater sim by using lots of Premium alts each with 512 sq m, it would be very expensive if you don't take stipends into account! _____________________
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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07-26-2009 09:56
If rent tier at .25 L$ sqm/wk, then 512 sqm (at 265 L$ to usd rate): _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Pussycat Catnap
Sex Kitten
Join date: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 1,131
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07-26-2009 10:42
My old avatar, join date in December of 2006, gets 300L/week.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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07-26-2009 11:04
if you put yourself into a group of 1 and deed your plot to your group. just wanted to touch on this before someone does it then wonders what happened. If you make a group and only have your one single self in it, the group will auto disband by the system If you want to use a group to deed land to, make the group then bring in an alt, and make them an owner as well. That way you have the minimum requirement for group members, and in the event you can not access SL with one account, you still have control with the other _____________________
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life... |
