New proposal only slightly related to the Right to Roam thread

SL already distinguished between objects that are sat-on and objects that are not. If you own land, take a look at your prim count in the land tab and you will see that "sat-on" is one of the categories. In this case, a single prim cube with a person sat on it counts as a vehicle. No coding gymnastics required.

OK, Conan, here it is:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2223

I just cut and pasted your proposal from the OP. Go to this link, then log in to JIRA (upper right hand corner of the screen; use your SL username and password.)

Vote for the issue; on the menu bar on the left side of the screen, scroll all the way down till you see "vote for this". Click on it. Hoorah! You've made your voice heard! Be ready to defend it; you should log in every so often to check it. I've created a link to this thread on the proposal so that people can read through the arguments.

Conan,

I applaud the time and effort you are putting into this proposal.
However I feel there is a serious shortcoming in it.

The mainland is full of people using varieties of the existing options.
Banlines and security orbs rules the mainline - of this there is no doubt. No object entry is very common also.

What makes you think that the people who exercise these options will not just turn off the newly proposed "allow vehicle entry" as well?

After all if they are already using the other options then they probably dont want vehicles and as we have seen through some voices here that can be for no other reason than they feel the land belongs to them and they wont share it.

Nothing will have changed and it will be no better.

I suspect that the ardent property rights view point will be the majority one amongst current users of the above options.

I would support a proposal of pushing for the fixing of all the things that were designed and built in to make vehicle travel work and then enforcement of them. This includes allowing scripts, objects above 767m regardless of the seetings on the land below.

I do like the idea of not having a sat upon prims count against the parcels total number of prims.

It needs to be remembered that we do already have a common airspace, Linden designed it that way. This should be preserved and respected by all land "owners". Orbs that operate on objects and AVs above 767m are and should be AR'd.

I think it also needs to reiterated that land "owners" do not own the land, LL does, you are renting an allotment of prims which is confined not only laterally to the parcel lines but vertically from the lowest possbile point on the grid up to 767m which why the permissions system works the way it does. You rent a shared resource ultimately and not wanting to share anything is unrealistic and unsocialable.

As for ground level and waterways, I do not think that any purely optional system will fix the access problems unless there are incentives for the land "owners" who do not wish to be altruistic and do not wish to allow access. Perhaps a discount on Tier or as I have previously suggested a centralised pay for access system.

Regards
Nathan

People pay a lot for their land and should have a choice how high they want to build and who they want there.
I really think the best way to go is encourage LL to publicize or have areas where people can fly like the have areas for boaters to go on the sea.

Hi FD!

You know what I would LOVE to see? I know this is totally impractical, but I would LOVE to see all the vacant ocean sims (that no one owns and that are therefore non-existant) as honest to goodness "ocean" sims, with sail and fly options available. The sims could be set to no entry/no create, but with Conan's proposal, we could all sail the open seas! Trout could be the pirate that he wants to be, Conan could fly over the ocean... how cooooool....

I understand that this would require major server space from LL, so is therefore not probably going to happen, but it would still be cool.

are you certain? how can you be certain if you cannot build or rez above 768?

A vehicle can be directly rclicked-more-returned by the landowner even if you are sitting in it. Perhaps this happened to you.

Nope... The owner at the time was (and is) a friend of mine who had no problem with me crossing his parcel, plus he wasn't online at the time. Also, it specifically gave the "parcel auto-return" message, as opposed to "returned by parcel owner".

I think it's far more likely that something unseated me, perhaps the ban lines that I was smacking into on the next parcel over (it was just a narrow strip of water, and I can't steer for s***!).

Because you can fly a vehicle above 768m. Once you hit 2518m the vehicle disappears from under you.

then why cant we build above 768?

/me dons his spiffy vinyl pocket-protector.

Because positions are stored as floating point numbers, the larger the number, the sloppier the precision. The 768m build cutoff is kind of arbitrary, but things start getting messier, the higher you go, so cumulative rounding errors from operations like repeated rotations and translations become more noticeable. Some related forms of "prim drift" also get increasingly aggravating at greater altitude. This phenomenon can actually be observed in script behavior for items on the ground, with different precisions at the <0,0> and <255,255> corners of a sim.

(The 2518 "ceiling" is news to me, though.)

This would be just ridiculously cool. But, unfortunately, you're right. LL would have to open a ton of sims that are just represented by blank "water" right now. The resources used would be less, because presumably they would put in some of the restrictions about building, etc. that we're talking about here, but it would still require a bunch of servers that LL would have to pay for without the benefit of getting the tier.

How about this? If you get a premium account, you can automatically get 512 and not pay any additional tier. Maybe if you get a premium account, you get to choose between use of the oceans and land ownership. Frankly, I'd rather own a license to sail on wide open seas than a 512 parcel. Or maybe charge a use fee like in RL when you get a fishing or hunting license. Pay a monthly fee and you get to use the Linden seas. That might offset some of the cost of running additional servers, but somehow I doubt it.

Meh - that's just not going to happen. It would still be pretty cool, though. I look at all that dark blue area on the map and even though I know it doesn't really exist, I want to go play there.

perhaps the geekiest member of the forum has spoken.

This is just based on experience and anecdotal evidence, but it seems to be fairly consistent.