Islam and Muslims in Second Life

Pep (See post #31)

It does make sense in context.

Surely "censor" would only make sense if talking to a person with the power of actually deleting something posted here? I believe this was in reference to what you (rightly or wrongly) did, which was to call to task someone for something they said.

On the question of the degree of fundamentalism of the observer, I very much doubt that fundamentalist Muslims would have anything to do with SL for much the same reasons that fundamentalist Christians would disapprove of it.

Otherwise I certainly don't see any reason why an individual should be unable to pray if he or she is disabled in any way. From the few translations I have read, the Qu'ran is quite rigorous in applying get-out clauses for believers who are genuinely not in a position to observe its injunctions to the letter. For instance, someone for whom fasting proves unusually arduous or even dangerous, such as a diabetic, may be relieved of the obligation to fast during Ramazan by feeding a hungry person for each day of fasting he is unable to manage.

There is a Sura where Allah admonishes the Prophet for overdoing it on his knees, the reason being that prayer was given to mankind as a gift not a punishment.

You don't censure "things", you censure people. You *can* censor "things", which is what Ephraim is suggesting. For "things" read "topics" and it makes much more sense.

Pep (You are entitled to your opinion; I am sure of mine)

One most certainly can censure things, including roles and actions. Possibly I might suggest more grammatically clear formulation but the semantics are perfectly sensible.

"Casting censure" is not what he said.

Pep (Dig a bigger hole for him)

PS Dammit; you changed your post in the time it took me to press "quote". Originally you said "One most certainly can cast censure upon things", which is a different thing. Full marks for recognising your error and amending it.

PPS I simply now disagree with your statement.

See? this is the kind of interesting discussion I was hoping for.

(In my world Islamophobia is conventionally used to mean resistance to accepting members of Islam into the larger community.)

Oh dear, a dictionary fetishist. The meaning of "censure" was perfectly appropriate in context and, despite the similarity between the words, would not have to be replaced by "censor" to make sense.

Not at all. It is merely that I have a brother who has annoyed me for fifty years with his malapropisms ( ) in desperate attempts to appear "intellectual" - which of course rebound badly.

As I have said, I disagree.

Pep (Others will have to decide for themselves)

Exactly. For that matter, strict Catholics (pre-Vatican II, I think) used to believe that ordinary man couldn't interact with God and therefore needed the priesthood to do all the ritual praying, etc. That would mean that no one in SL could actually pray at all, unless one is an actual Catholic priest. Isn't that one of the things that brought about the whole Protestant movement... Martin Luther and his ilk all said that ordinary man can indeed talk to God, and don't need priestly intervention.

Seeing as how, in Islam, ordinary man can pray, it follows that ordinary man's avatar can pray as well, if that avatar really does represent the soul of the man. But that's where we get into "can 1s and 0s ever represent the soul?" I'm rambling, I know. Time for a little nap.

Surely when you condemn a "thing" someone has said you are implicitly censuring them for say it?

Do you know where this need to be seen as intellectual might have come from? Please forgive me and ignore the question if it's too personal.

Interesting, Oryx.

I agree with the proviso that I think you actually mean the sacraments: there has been no stricture against rattling off a Pater Noster or an Ave in the vulgar tongue for centuries.

I was raised a strict Catholic post Vatican II and, although I no longer adhere to the faith, I have no issues with it or any other religion for that matter. As far as I am concerned, Catholic theology almost touches Buddhism if you go far enough with the reasoning so I've long since given up on wearing my Sunday-go-to-meeting suit. I just don't see the point. Perhaps I was privileged to be instructed by a fairly well-balanced bunch of priests as opposed to the typical psychos we tend to read about in the Book of the Month Club. At any rate, I didn't have much trouble making up my own mind about it all as I grew up.


If I have a criticism to make of İslam it is that believers are still obliged to read the Qu'ran in the archaic form of Arabic in which it was originally written if they are to fully appreciate the Word of God, which makes it difficult to exercise free thinking and dispute the emphasis one authority might lay upon a particular Sura as opposed to another.

As you pointed out, Christians got around that problem long ago when Martin Luther kindly did the honours with his German translation and most of Europe had it out for or against the Pope shortly after. That just isn't going to happen with İslam because the Qu'ran itself dismisses translations in the vulgar tongue as idolatry. Translations tend to emphasise this point and encourage the reader to look at other versions for comparison.

I've been sorry to see this thread descend into quibbles about semantics and competitions over who can appear more clever and intellectual. Islam in SL, and Islam itself, for that matter, are important subjects in their own right, and discussion of them is clearly very appropriate. I personally would like to see more responses to the OP's quite interesting questions - especially responses aimed at generating light, not heat.

I have known a number of disabled Muslims, and they are certainly excused the need to kneel to pray, and are able to perform their devotions sitting in a chair in the mosque. Whether the true fundamentalists would approve I have no idea, but certainly some of those I have known have been extremely devout. I believe that making allowances for illness or disability is quite normal in Islam, for example the relaxation of the fast during Ramadan for those who are ill.

If I have understood you correctly, what you are saying is pretty irrelevant.

Pep (I may have misunderstood of course)

PS My brother's desire to be perceived as an intellectual probably arose from the normal male competitive instinct, but you'd have to ask his shrink really.

Oh do shut up. Honestly.

A couple of thoughts....

1) When it comes to matters of institutionalized faith, each institution has varying degrees of strictness on how the acting out 'correctly' of one's faith is to be done. In other words, just because something might be logical, may not mean it's acceptable in that faith. I'd recommend checking with a properly authorized cleric/priest/etc of the faith you're interested in to be sure, rather than a group poll.


2) My momma always said never discuss matters of politics or religion in polite company. In my own experience, that's a rock-solid truism.


- Newfie

Oh dear. What a wasted post. Even my mother has given up trying to tell me what to do.

Pep (Honestly)

PS Perhaps you would do better to request others not to ask me questions I would find it rude to ignore.

Well, fine, continue to talk drivel, no skin off my significantly-vectored nose.

Fixed it for ya!

Pep (No more questions?)

at which point has THAT ever stopped you.

I couldn't possibly allow people to think I was being rude as a result of ignorance.

Pep (Nor unintentionally )