Second Inventory Software - Save Inventory to Hard Drive

It might not be after today. A new policy was instituted at SLX today prohibiting all prim replicating devices.

OK... very true...

Kneejerk on my part there, assuming that the password was required through another source that doesn't conect to the grid...

There was a discussion about Second Inventory a while ago on the SL Educators list. I got in touch with the developer at got a copy of the the program to test. I provided feedback to him about what features need to be added or enhanced and ideas about how to do it.

There have been a few useful comments here. It does in fact use LibSL to connect you to the main SL grid. The production version does not yet have the ability to connect to other grids, such as the teen grid or any OpenSim based grids, but that is supposed to be in development.

It does not have the ability restore yet.

When you run the program, it does connect you to the main grid, so you will be disconnected from the regular viewer if you are logged in when you connect. You can still IMs while you are in the Second Inventory program.

Currently, you can only download objects one at a time. There is not a good mechanism for either full, differential or incremental backups yet.

For the data that is downloaded, you can extract the images if you have copy permissions. If you do not have copy permissions, you cannot extract the image, and even the view of the image is marred to indicate you do not have copy permissions. Likewise, you can extract tract the text of note cards and scripts.

It is now up to version 1.0.0.1 and there is plenty of development to do. However, to reject it out of hand as a fancy copybot is unreasonable and uninformed.

Why would you want it? If you've ever lost inventory in Second Life, and think that just copying to yet another location in Second Life isn't sufficient, this is a good tool. When and if it gets the ability to upload to alternative grids and when and if it gets better tools for categorizing objects that have been downloaded, it will be an important tool that any developer who has a large number of object and/or develops for multiple grids.

The thing is if you can make something why wouldn't you be able to recreate it else where?
Unless you're exporting full permission things others made to some where else.
Oh I get it maybe the person has so many objects,etc they made they don't want to recreate it. Or they have had some talented friends who made things for them that gave them permission to take else where to use.
I get that.

Gosh its fun to read comments from people completely ignorant of a subject trying to discuss it.

It must be the reason I keep coming back to these forums.

I hope you're have fun and feeling pretty good then.

So let's see - we can take "backups" of nocopy items, or no transfer items and then... do what with them? We can't restore them to SL, so it doesn't help in any way the idea that it will protect against lost inventory items. We can't upload them to another grid (and if we could that would violate the nocopy or transfer privs).

This isn't about stuff that you have made yourself and having backups of it - this is about stuff that other people have made, putting restrictions on their intellectual property, and a program coming along and bypassing all that.

So please educate the unwashed masses as to what we are not understanding here, when we see a problem....

No, you can't, you can only copy things with full perms, usually things you yourself made.




Because it's a work in progress, much like SL itself. The RESTORE feature is due to be complete this week.




You're not listening are you?





Which this program does NOT do. I have no idea how many ways you want that said to you, but its the truth of the matter.




You are not understanding that there is not a problem. Simple as that.


This is a move in the right direction... a direction that many many people in this enlightened forum have BEGGED for. But just like the ban on adfarm, people tend to bitch loudest when you attempt to give them what they want.

Try to educate yourself about something before you start commenting about it. But gee, that would leave these forums pretty barren huh?

I was asking questions, and I thank you for answering them

One of the chief things that people bitch about is having a backup of their inventory, so that when LL mess things up and stuff goes missing, you still have a copy of it somewhere. All the money they spent on buying houses, clothes, furniture, etc just disappears in a puff of Linden smoke.

This tool doesn't help with that in any way, shape or form, because the items are very rarely full-perm.

I can definitely see the use in making backups of stuff you have made yourself, because that is your to do what you want with, and WHEN the restore feature is implemented it will be all-the-better for doing that. Buying software based on promised future features is... risky, to say the least, but once it is done it will be a nice tool for builders, I'm sure.

So why is everyone complaining about this being a copybot then?

That's what I heard when I joined SL and bought a premium membership in 2004



Because complaining is the very core of the Second Life Forums.

Because without a Restore feature, all it can do is copy things. That makes it a copybot, not a backup tool.

From Angelo's comment on the SLEX site for the product:


So this thread only has til tomorrow to keep beating that horse.

Precisely. I doubt it will ever have the ability to restore items to an SL inventory because that would require access to SL's asset servers. A third party open source grid without the same scruples and its own asset server is more likely, in which case a tool like this could be used for the wholesale lifting of intellectual property for use elsewhere without the creator's consent or knowledge. It's likely only a matter of time. I'm not saying that the creators of the program in question have dishonorable intentions, but these types of things are worrying, and if other grids with their own asset systems are ever allowed to connect to the SL grid in a way that allows avatars and their assets to move freely between them, we can probably kiss the economy goodbye.

OK forgive me if this is a dumb question, but they are only copying things that are full-perm, so they are copyable and transferrable in-game, no? how does that somehow make it unethical and/or illegal?

Me, all I really want is a way to back up my own creations on my hard drive, where they belong, like where your skin files are backed up, Chip. Angelo says that RESTORE actually does work and is currently only disabled.

I would also reallllly like a way to take things that have taken me hundreds of endless hours to create out of the Second Life environment and carry them with me to the other grids I have been visiting and considering as alternatives to Second Life as platforms for enjoying a virtual exsistence. Especially my standalone opensim grid. Which I NEVER want to connect to the Second Life grid tyvm. I also think it would be stunningly wonderful to be able to truly create in an offline or standalone grid and have it easily transfer to the Second Life grid.

This product is working towards those ends and I applaude it.

The product is essential if you ask me. If people decide to use it in an unethical manner, it doesn't make the product defective nor does that mean that I should not be allowed to use it ethically.

Oh I agree with you there. The tools themselves aren't inherently unethical, but you know they're going to be used that way. P2P networks like to tout the fact that they're perfectly harmless if people use them to distribute things they have the right to distribute, but what is P2P mostly used for?

Wait, I didn't say that. I said it was "a copybot". That is, it's a tool that can make copies, not a backup device that can help restore lost items.

Whether it's capable of being used for Immoral Purposes is another question.

When the RESTORE feature is functional (ok ok... IF the RESTORE feature becomes functional the way it is supposed to this week) it WILL BE a backup device for objects that you have created and should (fingers crossed) be able to help you transfer YOUR OWN CREATIONS to other grids.

Yea! I mean, really... YEA!! What's not to love about that idea?

It will not make your alt a copy of the no trans prefab house you bought.
It will not make you copies of the no mod or no copy clothes cluttering up your inventory now.
It will not rip textures any faster then certain tools that already do that pretty effectively.

Will it be used Immorally and Unethically?

Undoubtedly, someone somewhere will spend a lot of time trying to get the software to do all the things its not meant or sold to do so that they can steal from others. But the list of tools that are really useful that can also be used immorally and unethically is a pretty long list.

But it is copying only things that are legally copyable and transferrable (i.e. full-perm items).

How is that wrong?

Again, it isn't wrong to do what you describe. Although I don't see much utility to it until it can also restore from the backup.

But, *IS* that all it can do? I don't know the answer to that, but IF it can copy no-copy, no-trans items, then yeah, it's a tool for thieves.

Even more sinister: A previous poster said the site wants your SL password. No way am I giving that to a third party.

I don't see the issues people have with the program you are describing.

It seems like they are arguing against copybot and you are arguing for something else.

I think LL would code this within days, and even earn the L$10 per upload on restores. It would be also "secure" since it will be integrate into the client, so it can actively check object the permissions, etc. If they doesn't do that, the reason is only one: they won't risk that exporting SL creations would be easily be imported (with reverse engineering on these files) to other virtual worlds (so eventually it will be very easy to move your business away).

A function thate exports primitives parameters it's damn easy (backup SLS scripts already exists), bu SLS lacks in "saving functions" (you cannot even write a notecard via SLS), so store these informations is actually tricky: you need to copy them from the chat (or save em to a log file and then do some parsing job), or send em via HTTP to an external server.

A skilled coder would even modify the client source to add that function without the help of LL, and to restore it, you need to do the opposite (without spending any linden) or in the worst case, uplodad a text file and have script parsing it.

Scripts like these already exists, and many ppl here (including me) are already developed one for their own pourposes... but the point is: is it really necessary? When u did multiple copies inworld, second life (and their servers) must explode entierely to have a chance to loose everything... in fact, after havin developed my "personal copybot" i didn't get a change to use it a single time, because i had no concrete reasons to do so.

Mmmm, actually it *is* necessary.

When you make a copy of an object - not all the assets of that object are duplicated. If you create an object, texture it, add a script and then copy it - both copies reference a single instance of the texture asset and the script source code object. So if that script/texture vanishes it will affect all copies.

A "script missing from database" error is normally a nightmare to a scripter, as the chances are that error will occur on all copies of the object no matter how many in world copies you have made, and no matther how many sims you have stored them on.

Matthew

What about "even if you have a No mod/No Copy/No Trasfer example of that item (you need to be the creator)."?

(On second thought, if the steps would allow actual "copying" of M/NC/T or M/C/NT prims by the tool, probably not a good idea to have it on the forums. If someone has a copy of the proggie, could you send me an IM/PM for something to try?)

Some of the screenshots seem to indicate that you can save a texture by texture UUID alone, you can't check creator or permissions from just a UUID, so that alone would make it questionable already.

I love folks who refuse to read, ask the same questions that have been asked (and answered) umpteen times, and then ignore the answers, preferring instead to pontificate about things they haven't bothered to research or understand.

O, and if you're worried about texture theft, too late, there's already a program that does it way easier.

Please note as well, I could care less if it backs up stuff so I can restore it into SL. I have alts that work just fine for back-up within the SL environment. Nor do I have any interest in copying anything of YOURS.

I want it to make MY creations PORTABLE... meaning I can take my stuff, the stuff I created with my own time, with me to other grids. Very specifically to my own standalone grid I am happy to say will absolutely NEVER want to connect itself to the grid provided by Linden Research.

If/When/Should this product ever do this, I will pay twice what they are asking for it.