Entire CopyBot Sim taken Down

It matters that people bought perfectly legal items that were purged because of this. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, to put it mildly.

You know, Cheyenne, I hope the next time you get a traffic ticket, the police decide to issue you a ticket for every single time you've ever driven a car on a public street or highway. After all, you're a lawbreaker now (hence the current ticket) so what does it matter if all the rest of the time you've driven within the law? You're a known lawbreaker now, so ALL the times you've operated a vehicle should be ticketed and fined, too.

See how that works?

Better yet, take her car because she was a known criminal while operating it.

Another analogy. Your son or daughter downloads music illegally. You don't know it but the police come and take your computer, your furniture and your house anyway. Trial?? Court? No need for that. Your kid is a thief. It's the DMCA and you are harboring a thief.

BURN THE WITCHES!!!!!!

Again, direct you anger toward this E.C. person. He/she is the reason why this happened to you. Accept the fact that the cause was the result of an unsavory element within SL. As a result, we all suffer. If you want to take it up with anyone, go take it up with the thief who caused this to happen to you. Stop blaming everyone else.



No I don't see how this works. And the reason I fail to see how this works is because it is a poor analogy.

Now if you had of made the analogy that you hoped the next time I got busted for trafficking cocaine, that the police would then decide to confiscate my house, car and everything else under my name, then you would have had an excellent analogy.

But you wouldn't make that analogy. You know why? Because that is exactly what the police do when you get busted for trafficking in drugs. Even though I may not have bought my house, my car or many of the things I owned with drug money, they still would confiscate my house, car and anything else they felt like confiscating.

Even if I would have given that home to my mother, that car to my brother, or any other property under my name to anyone else.

See how that works?

This HASN'T "happened" to me. Nothing I owned has been broken because of this. My outrage is over the balls-up LL made of trying to handle this. What they did was:

1) Delete perfectly legal content (open source scripts made my Miffy Fluffy, not EC)

2) Leave the infringing content (pirated animations) untouched

3) Told people with the broken content "Just rez another copy from your inventory and it will be fine."


So, in their pursuit of this particular item (pirated animations) they deleted stuff that was legal, didn't delete the illegal stuff, and then left the door wide open for anyone to still copy, sell, or rez the illegal content.

Now, if you can explain to me why THIS is a good, proper, moral, and ethical course for them to have taken... I think I have some sales jobs for you that would make a ton of money. Pity none of them would be ethical, seeing as how they involve selling the Brooklyn Bridge and other similar items...

If you know of a public directory that lists the RL details of SL sellers along with the copyright registrations of their creations then please do share.

Failing that you're an anonymous person, same as anyone else posting in this thread, including me.

Original trolling .

I never made any allegation of theft against every other content creator. I asked a perfectly reasonable question: please provide proof that you did indeed create what you're claiming you created.

Why is that so hard for you to answer? I'm sure you created everything yourself, I'm sure you are legitimate, but as you yourself said: you need to make sure that someone is legitimate which involves more than just taking someone's word for it.

If I was as suspicious as you I'd think you were encouraging someone to do something illegal. Only the copyright owner or someone designated to do so by them can file a DMCA, there's even this whole "I swear, under penalty of perjury" statement you should include.

As far as making baseless accusations: you're the only one actually doing that. Just because someone makes a claim but isn't able to back it up doesn't mean it's untrue, it just means others have no way of validating it. The inability to actually *show* that you are legitimate to separate yourself from the rest is part of the problem, but something you seem to refuse to see.

I would be remiss if I passed judgment based on one person's interpretation of events Solomon.

This is your interpretation. And as we all know there are always three sides to every story...your side, their side, and the right side.

This is why we have courts. And only judges pass judgment therein.

/me scratches head in honest puzzlement

Then I have one heck of a time reconciling THIS statement with your statements a bit earlier in this thread, which looked and sounded judgmental as HELL to me (and apparently to a couple of others as well). Care to explain?

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't interpret Kitty's posts to mean anything other than "I can't distinguish between thieves and original creators".

Guess what? I can't either. I don't even know what "DCMA" means.

Yet us buyers are held responsible. By your reasoning, if we buy things from creators we don't know, we are "obviously predisposed to protect proven thieves". If we buy only from people we've learned to trust, and say so, then we are making "baseless allegations of theft against every other creator who has yet to be proven guilty of stealing something".

What is it exactly that you think we should do?

For the record: If I've ever had anything I bought deleted, I didn't even notice, nor am I likely to notice. I buy a *lot* of things. But these type of threads suggest to me that I shouldn't. Unless I'm willing to put a lot of research into it, which I'm not.

Yes, you did miss something.

There is history on these forums on this subject. Unless you are familiar with that history you would not understand.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong .

Let's say you created something in digital form (what it isn't terribly relevant) and put it out somewhere, or sell it.

Someone comes along, copies it and offers it to others (with or without attribution to you, for free or for profit).

If you want to stop the other from infringing you could send a take-down notice to whichever provider is actually hosting the content, but they wouldn't really have to comply. They're a provider and have no responsability or liability for what they're hosting.

If they don't comply your only other option would be to subpoena the infringer's RL details and take them court which is likely to take a great deal of time, money and effort and in the meanwhile the infringement continues.

At the core "filing a DMCA" makes a content provider liable for the infringement if they don't take steps after to stop the alleged infringement after they receive it. The other party can counterfile, but that carries some legal consequences if they frivously counterfile, in most cases they're not going to contest it and the infringement stop right then.

Once thing to note is that a DMCA doesn't prove anything one way or the other, you merely claim that you are the copyright owner and that the other party isn't authorized to use the content in question. Nothing (other than committing perjury) would prevent someone from claiming they created (pick something) and filing a DMCA with LL to get that content removed. LL would remove the content and the actual creator would be forced to counterfile and have to sue them for perjury/misrepresentation if they're peeved enough about it.

That should be it in a nutshell, I think .

Perhaps that's so. But why can't you answer my question, nevertheless?

I am talking about the series of events as you described them. You asked me what I think of the situation based on your side of the story, and I told you I am not going to give you my opinion based on your side of the story.

That is your side of the story.

I am not disputing it. I am just not going to pass any judgment, or give you my opinion as to what I think of the matter, based on your interpretation of that particular story you described.

I am sorry Liralyn. It's just that it is quite a long story. There are long threads on the subject on this forum.

I only asked you to explain what you said in this forum. The fact that can't do so is quite clear.

Pretty accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act

Any form of encryption requires a key to unlock, that key would be in the client and they would simply dig it out. In this case, you can say can't. No matter what you do, you have to give the legit user the key to unlock encrypted data, therefore the hackers simply need to reverse engineer the key out, and code the application they want with that key as a part of it. Do you honestly think you're coming up with the solution? Don't you think the industry has been trying to do this since the beginning of time???


http://www.secondscripter.com/

who is asking for consideration to a thief?who cares if some of the things were legal? well the people that worked with the legal ones and the ones that bought them maybe?
all people wanted was a warning that they may have something inside of a product they either made our bought..everything else gets a warning before it's done around here..
i run a real business in real life and i know for a fact if i pulled some crap like that my rear would be in court faster than i could blink..
you are not the only creator here that has had something stolen from them..you look at it from only the creators point of view and not the whole picture..
you look at it as ..yay they got one...oh why is everyone bitching? because people that get ripped off just like you and are all in the same boat..nobody is backing this eva..if thats the way you see it then you need to reread..i'm glad they caught this idiot.
But LL pulled the switch in haste without a notice and people that bought legit things were disabled or vanished..i never said anything about keeping these scripts in anything..just a chance to get whatever was bad out..
i could care less if something goes away in my inventory but a lot of people that don't have the money lost things they worked for that they bought with legit in mind or made with legit in mind..you don't seem to have much compassion for your peers do you??
well it's probably because you didn't get hit this time..

here you don't think those people deserved a warning??you show passion for content thieves getting caught but no compassion for victims like yourself if you have been ripped off? i would think someone that had it happen to them or was out to end it would really feel for them unless you think they are all thieves..
feels good having words put in your mouth doesn't it.. i am just returning the spoonful.

we couldn't control what eva did and she scammed a lot of people..but once she was found out the control wasn't hers anymore and it could have been handled with everyones best interest in mind to make sure she didn't cause anymore damage.doing it the way they did probably gave her a big laugh..
i happen to be friends with a lot of designers/creators and help them every chance i get when i see their products on someone elses shelf that is not supposed to have them i get to where i want to tear the store down and get with the creator right away..i do enough shopping to make a dent..

so don't put words in my mouth that i back this eva idiot scamm artist..
i'm looking at everyones damage and feeling for them because unlike you i see how much chaos is gonna come from this one thing..
you walk in here treating everyone like thieves and trying to play the almighty omg i'm the only one that gets it when you haven't comprehended what people are saying..

everyone wants these content thieves gone..but doing things like what LL did and they keep doing it that way is gonna make everyones business suffer even yours because consumers will be a lot more picky about shopping at all if things keep vanishing or being disabled because of some tiny little thing out numbered by 99 others or whatever it is in sitting inside a product that most were unaware of when they made it or purchased it..people with good intentions or just people wanting to buy something are the ones getting hurt here..not thieves..
i hope the thief rots..but i also hope LL doesn't work this way in the future for all your sakes that own stores or create things because business will get pretty bad.

This situation is many things, but it can't fairly be called a "witch hunt".

So, here's the thing. A lot of folks for a long time have wanted LL to act more aggressively to protect intellectual property. I'm one of those. In fact, I AR'd the sim in question the night before the long knives came out. So there was cause for exuberance when the sim was taken down and all the associated accounts closed and some content blacklisted or pulled. And then the scale of the thing became evident, and the scale of the screw-ups in implementation. And the repercussions to the SL economy, and to the whole concept of in-world "ownership" of anything at all by residents. And suddenly all those long threads from the past started resonating, wherein were discussed the dangers of the horridly flawed DMCA and of LL's policies and processes for responding to it.

Some folks just couldn't see what all the fuss was about: Yay! Score one for IP rights!

Others of us are well past celebrating now and are waiting for the other shoe to drop.

What I don't understand is the apparent relish for the fact that many innocent people were hurt. There's been a lot of gleeful blaming of victims and celebratory making of omelets with other people's broken eggs.

A better analogy might be if the police confiscated all your furniture because the owner of the store you got them from had been arrested for beating someone up in a pub.

When you complain that the purchase was entirely legal, and totally unrelated to the crime, the person committed, the police just say "don't blame us - he is a criminal now, so every action he ever took is now regarded as a criminal act..."

Matthew

Thank you, Matthew... that is indeed a better analogy.

If you would have taken your own advise and tried reading and comprehending my posts prior to writing your above million word dissertation you would have understood that I said we all suffer from the immoral acts of these thieves.

"All" means consumers, content creators, resellers, LL, SL, you, me, EVERYONE!

I have compassion. I am a huge consumer myself. I love shopping and anyone who knows me knows that shopping is the one thing I love doing more than anything else in SL. So of course I feel for all of the consumers who have been victimized and made to suffer from this incident.

Mine is not a consumers against content creators, or residents against LL, or me against you, cause. Mine is an everyone who is attempting to do right in SL against content thieves in SL cause.

The thing is, unlike many on these forums, I am consistent. Which is more than I can say for many posters on these forums. My fight has always been, and will always be, to come down hard on content thieves and to devise and implement stricter enforcement measures by which to deal with this problem.

But the underlying message in all of these IP theft threads is consitently that it is ok when content creators get ripped-off because, well ... "hey there is nothing we can do about IP theft so "Give up, 'stop whining,' and accept it because that's the way it is baby."

Unless, off course, anyone else is made to suffer because god forbid then it becomes a huge problem and everyone be damned.

The point being that we are ALL made to suffer from content theft. As proven by what has happened in this situation. So that when it happens, place the blame were it belongs. Not on consumers, not on content creators, not on you, or me, or LL. Place it where it belongs, and that is directly and solely on the thieves that create the problem to begin with.

Direct your ire and anger toward them and do something to solve the problem along those lines rather than spewing the inconsistencies see in these threads that so long as it is only the content creators that are victimized it is ok, but when others are victimized it is LL, the content creators, and anyone else EXCEPT the dam thieves, who are consistently vicariously and vehemently defended by many on these forum posters through their lackadaisical "leave it alone and do nothing about content theft because there is nothing we can do about it" attitude.

Slow down and try reading, and understanding, what you read next time before you lash out at someone.

Comprehension is a wonderful thing.

It is not a better analogy.

Why?

Because in Matthew's analogy the crime committed by the furniture owner, assault, is totally unrelated to the crime of furniture building. Whereas in this particular situation the crime committed by this thief, the selling of stolen/infringed content, was directly related to content that was co-mingled with the rest of the thieves property which was, could have, or maynot have, been legally or illegally created by the thief and was therefore consequently confiscated by the powers that be (who just so happens to be LL in this scenario).

On the other hand, had Matthew's analogy been that the police confiscated all your furniture because the owner of the store you got them had been arrested for having stolen the items with which he created the furniture, or financed his furniture business with money gained through the sale of illegal contraband (Ie. drug trafficking), then the analogy would have been correct.

Of course that analogy would have never been made since it would not have supported your, or his, point of view.

But why let facts get in the way of the truth.

OK, try this one.

You buy you television, dvd player, etc. from a local store. There was a bundled deal of a DVD player and some DVDs but you decided not to buy that. The following week, that store is raided by the police for selling pirated DVDs. The police come around to your house, they don't take any DVDs - because you never bought any but they do take your television, dvd player, etc.

"Oh, were these stolen property too", you ask the police officer.

"Oh no", he explains, "we checked all the paper work and the accounts, and only the DVDs were pirated. All the electronic products were sourced from a local reliable wholesaler and their receipts checked out with the wholesalers records. No, these are all legal - but we're confiscating them anyway, because, you know, he *was* selling pirated DVDs"

Matthew

Looks like judging.As does the following:The irony about reading comprehension here is really thick.Indeed.


Obvious troll is obvious.