I am about to have a nervous breakdown

QFT.

Even places run at loss struggle, so it's up to you how much you are prepared to carry a place.

I've set something up now on this basis. I don't care if it makes profit or not. Truly. Profit never was my aim. I now also don't care if it works or not, I have carved off a corner to have as private space and the rest is a beach which I'll enjoy having even if no one but my honey and I ever look at.

Nothing is the kiss of death more than worrying about traffic and people, there is always the stress of employees and whether you have loyalty. Sure you want all that?

If you are sure you want all that, then you need to work on making your place special somehow. Atmosphere, build and people ...

I've made two things which were unique in SL and were lamented when I exploded them (one due to a break up, one because it was more money than it was worth and when the ex from said break up moved on the sim adjacent as near as he could get to me - took the wind out of my sails somewhat) and at the end of the day you must love it and live it to make money from it POSSIBLY.

Every success wished. Try the other Forums for DJs ... mainly though, have an awesome lighting rig and DJ booth and the natural ego *cough* showmanship of most DJs will have them wanting to carve their niche there.

I used to own a club with an outdoor amusement park right out front, and it seemed like we wouldn't get visitors for the first few days. We built up a nice sized Group of a few hundred in the next 4 days and got the traffic up though, even without dancers...this is what I did:

1. Got a "radio" so I could load it up with URLs for a few Shoutcast Stations that we liked, just in case one went down/had a bad DJ that night...

2. Hosted nightly themed Events...costume party, back in black, best leather, angels and demons, blingtard army ... whatever you can think of. jot the themes down on a pad or something...you can re-use em every once in a while

3. I quickly decided on NO camping machines/chairs,etc... those are money pits for new businesses

4. I made sure to use Keyword in the Parcel description(s) that reflected eveerything we had to offer, which included a few freebies... a lot of those newbies started coming back on a regular basis for Events because...

5. I added everybody that I could to our Group as soon as I had greeted them when they arrived at our Event. You wanna wait until maybe 3 or 4 people are there of course. Some will turn down the invite...don't worry about it.

6. Get a DJ to play at least a few nights a week, even though you have streams. You should be able to get some to come through and play just for tips if you got a good atmosphere there

7. Make sure you Right-Click on your Land and put the relevant keywords for your club there too. If you need more space ( heh heh heh) sub-divide a little piece of Land and put another description for the club in there including keywords not used in the first one.

8. Remember to send out a Group Notice AND post the Event, every time you do one.

9. Occasionally send out a small gift to the Group members...they get all mushy about it.

10. Every time you post an Event or Notice...in the description make sure to put "Bring a friend!".. as simple as it sounds...people have a tendency to bring a whole GROUP of friends after a few visits, once you get regulars if you have a good atmosphere.

Hope that helps, good luck \M/

Some good stuff there Xio. Blingtard army!!!!!!!!!

I just built a club, but solely for my own enjoyment, and it was an attempt to replicate the Black Sun in Snow Crash and to consider Neal Stephenson's train of thought about tables not needing legs, because in a virtual world they not needed and it's black so it rezzes quickly, etc. When I came to putting in chairs/stools for people to sit on, I realized I had far too many and removed half, presently have 8. I put two other items in for fun (black humour). I also put one 'one way' window in because psychologically it doesn't seem right not to have one with how light intrudes into buildings in SL.

Anyway, I thought people would think the simplicity was daft, but strangely from those who have been in it, like it. Maybe in the case of clubs, less is really more?

I just did the same Dekka...I built a club and a complex of fun places...Just for the fun of building it, and for friends and customers to hang out in...and a Thank You to all who buy My Gestures and my wife Bonita's Jewelry...A way to give back to the ppl that support our business...

It was a lot of fun doing it...

It won't be staffed...Except when one of my friends have a party...

It is just for ppl to have fun in when they want...

And what Xio said!

Karen, I just don't get your attitude. You keep insisting that SL is "extremely restricted", and yet you keep your avatar in world 24/7, doing the most banal, limited thing possible in SL, camping.

I'm sorry, but you and others like you are taking more out of SL than they're putting back. Camping payouts are, in effect, a tax, and any tax is a brake on an economy. In other words, WE are supporting YOU...and you're giving nothing back. Not only that, but you're complaining about the dreariness of your SL existence!

In your defense, I'll at least say that individual campers like you are a lot more preferable than the campbot farmers. They literally make a business out of sucking money out of the SL economy, doing wholesale what you are doing retail.

But still...get into Second Life, or go do something more productive.

I'm relatively new to SL, however I was under the impression that landowners placed camping chairs on their land because they got something out of it.

I know there used to be a thing called "dwell" which I think was money paid to landowners based on the number of visitors and the time they stayed.

I think that this was discontinued, and was wondering what incentive there is now.

If I'm right, and the land/business owners are the ones who place/market and finance the camping chairs, then what's the gripe with people who take advantage of them?

If you visit somewhere because of its apparent "popularity" only to find a lot of campers, then don't go back - it is after all only a matter of two mouse clicks.

If you do want to make an issue of the situation then surely it would be best to address your concerns to the land/business owner.

Also I'm not sure where the economic basis lies for saying that campers are draining money from SL.

As I say though, I'm a relative noob..

Quite right about the business owners. It's a Catch-22 situation, though. If you want a high ranking in Search, you have be popular. Many businesses fake popularity by paying for campers. So you are in competition with them. But the problem can be attacked from both ends...if more businesses stop offering camping, then great. If we can convince campers to stop their unproductive behavior and do something better with their time...well, that's great too.

As to your second point, isn't it obvious? Where do you think camping funds come from, the tooth fairy? It's a cost to business owners. True, most campers put the money back in circulation by buying things, but still, it is eventually cashed out by *somebody*. Camping is unproductive, it adds no value. Therefore, it is a drain on the economy.

Hello Lindal,

I assume that the business owner takes a business decision based on ROI. She calculates that by paying out $nnnn.nn on camping chairs, she will somehow make $nnnn.nn + $yyyy.yy

If she doesn't want to finance camping chairs, she doesn't need to, she just has to come up with a USP (Unique Selling Point), which will attract people without needing to finance the dreaded chairs. I realise though that this is a much trickier course of action than just slapping down some chairs and hopinh for the best.

If the business owner isn't making a ROI on her chairs, then she'd be insane to continue financing them.

I understand that certain business owners feel the only way they can compete is by financing camping, but that certainly isn't the fault of an ordinary person who sees the opportunity to make a couple of dollars while they have RL dinner.. is it?

Surely then, if camping chairs are to be considered a tax, then it's a stupidity tax, or a lack of creativity tax.

Put another way, I know a few RL business owners who would be very grateful for the opportunity to pay such a "tax" in the Real World..

/me hands Lindal some hot chocolate, a blanket, and a really nice novel.

Lindal, I don't see Karen as complaining about SL dreariness in this thread, I think she's simply saying that clubs in SL are relatively tame compared to kink experiences available on the internet. I'm not sure of the relevance of that point, but anyway ...

I do take issue with slamming Karen for camping in general. The problem is not campers ... they are simply taking advantage of an offered activity ... but those who offer camping spots. Further, those spots are primarily a tax on those who offer them - if they want to pay that tax, it's their business.

I don't think it's very welcoming to scold people about how they live their SL. And I like folks to feel welcome here

There are of course places that offer camping and don't sell anything and the camping isn't there to increase traffic, merely to provide income to n00bs because they realized that if they hadn't made any money through camping in the first place they wouldn't have remained in game.

I know of such a place and overall I would say 50% of the people who start camping there are indeed still active in SL.

Well that's one of the few positive sides to camping.

Thanks, Nika, and I apologize for scolding. It wasn't just this post, though, Karen's been moaning about the same problems in another thread.

There's nobody more eager to welcome people to SL and to the forums than I...but sometimes, well...you just have to tell people they ought to get a life. Second or otherwise.

I did some camping myself when I first arrived. But I quickly found better things to do. I think that if Karen and the other long time campers did, too, we'd ALL be better off.

There is no automatic way to post once or twice, and have a flood of staff and guests banging on your door.

You have to go out and spend a good about of time, simply, schmoozing. Go to freebie areas and others public areas. Go out to greet people, talk to them, if they are n00bs help them out. Build relationships and tell them about your club, ask them if they are interested to come by or fill out a staff app.

Little difference then what politicians do when going to a local coffee house or rally in a park. they talk, listen, shake a lot of hands and at the end ask people for their support. Some approach muct be taken.

Does it take a lot of time? Yes. Will it work with one or two days effort? doubtful. My clubs grand opeing is this friday. I have spent almost a month doing what I detailed above. My club group is now 60+ people and while I still need staff I have enough to get by for the opening bash at least. I must have told over 100 people about my clubs opening and handed out invites/landmarks. If 25% of the people and 50% of the staff show up that have expressed interest I'll be in good shape for the grand opening. Thats the are the kind of figures you should expect. No more then 1 out of every 4 ppl you tell will show up. Word if mouth is also THE most powerful form of advertising.

Nnoe the less, those numbers are not encouraging and thus presses my point. A LOT of legwork on your part is needed. No 'agency' is ever going to get the job done as effectivy as if you and 1 or 2 others going around the talking to ppl about your club and creating buzz that way.

FYI

Isn't that on the same rack as "Anal Gerbils of the Month"?

Club people are a rare commodity - the best places work where people have already gelled, of course. Better a band of people already making witty conversation that the ghoulish silence of many places (clubs and hangouts alike).

What I am objecting to is the sanctimonious and self righteous attitude!

I CHOOSE to camp because presumably it provides a benefit to a business that they are willing to pay for!

As I have pointed out, I DO have many other things I enjoy, but in Second Life the most enjoyable activity seems to be camping at this point.

I don't enjoy endless nearly identical "clubs" and "shopping malls", no matter how much the owner's "care" about me.

In fact I have been playing with the Internet (ARPANET/USENET/ ..) since 1978 - you can even Google many of my posts from that era.

Strangely MY time and resources are spent doing what *I* enjoy and not pleasing some self righteous "land" owner with some unspecified agenda!

I like newbs myself for my staff you get them young you train them the way you want and they are yours forever ( this is staff guys not women)

Some of my best employee's have been 2 or 3 day old newbs who have come into Second Life and found me and my club and asked for work and were hired for tips

Buy yourself a Buisness in a Box so you can give the newb some skin and shape some clothing to wear to get started, they are gratefull for the help and are happy with the tips they make

Some of the people i hired when i first came to sl still come around and when they do they bring half dozen of there friends with them and one comes sporting a SL mentor tag now

There is a lot of good advice here for you to sort through and please remember

DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF MUSIC AND THE FUN OF HAVING YOUR OWN BUSNESS

your not gonna get rich on a club your probably not even gonna break even on it but as long as your having fun its cheeper then a night on the town each weekend

Just my thoughts

Also a suggestion when starting a club with a group: don’t spam a TP to every member whenever you have an event...as for myself, it can be annoying. Also allowing the general members to use the Group IM for conversation is a big turn off to some like me. Limit your announcements to maybe one a day before the event, and one an hour before the even...(we still get them when we log in). The constant spamming of all these things does one thing... It causes me to LEAVE the group. 9 times out of 10 I am so busy with 3-20 personal IMs going as well as what is happening in my main screen to respond to the incessant spam around me...sensory overload is like a silent scream, I don’t like it.


So to sum it up avoid the spamminess...keep the idiots who like to use group chat as a vehicle for a conversation OUT of group IM, and you may just have something there!

Karen, I hate to derail the thread, but I can't refrain from asking why. Is there something else you are doing while camping? chatting? I'm not trying to be judgmental, I just don't understand how you can say that just endlessly leaving your avatar sitting there is enjoyable.

QFT
I don't know how many groups I've dropped over my time in SL because of group spam, either by owners announcing events every 30mins, or members asking for TPs to said events. Occasional IMs & Notices are excellent methods of keeping members (your regular customer base) informed, nagging them will send them running.

I do mine 3 hours before the event and then about 30-15 minutes before they come or they do not but they know its going on

You talkin' about me? Are you talking about ME?

I don't think I'm self righteous, but I'll concede the point if it makes you happy. But I have NO hidden agenda.

I'm out to do what I can to make Second Life a better place. I do that by helping people. I help them by posting answers to questions in these forums (when I'm not being off topic and silly). I help them by teaching newbie classes. I help them by being a Second Life Mentor and braving the Orientation Islands and welcome areas. And, recently, I'm helping to make SL a better place by buying a chunk of land, putting up what, IMO, is an attractive build, and making a nice place for some people to live and enjoy SL.

And once in a while, I help out by pointing out when someone is being wrong-headed.

What are you doing to improve the place? That question might sound snotty, and maybe it is, because you've ticked me off a bit. But really, it's a question that we ALL should ask ourselves. Don't you think?

Back on topic, or close to it...I'm thinking of putting up a community bulletin board, which will give a notecard with recommended landmarks on it. This sort of "mutual aid advertising" might help to promote projects like the OP's club. But what do you all think would be a good way of deciding what goes on such a list? Friends? Personal favorites? You-list-me-and-I'll-list-you? Paid subscriptions (eugh!)?