Opinions Wanted on Club Traffic

My friend and I have been running a club for a while now, and it was not created for profit: it's just for fun and to have a cool place to hang out. At the same time, we want to share this fun with others, but this is the problem.

We've got good events, good DJs, and good hosts. The venue is simple but well-constructed. We even have very little lag (crazy but true!). We started off very well but have had some difficulty getting people into the club lately. Obviously, this has started us wondering what exactly is causing this. We're considering the following potential reasons:

1. Seasonality - Do people hit SL (and therefore clubs) less during the holidays?

2. Music - Although we play a different genre of music every night, are some genres more attention-grabbing than others?

3. Day of the week - Traffic obviously varies from day to day, hour to hour, and so on, but are some days more likely to get less traffic than others?

Just to be clear, this is not about the money or SL economy; the money isn't an issue that's a concern to us, and we realize the SL economy is flat. Regardless, are there other things we're not thinking of? Even just personal opinions would be really helpful.

Thanks!

I don't know but for me it is that at the moment I am just too darn busy. At any given moment I have around 5 events I could be at, at least 4 friends to visit with, not to mention working on product for my store.

Sometimes I manage to combine 2 things by taking friends to an event with me lol but that is not always possible.

My suggestion is to just continue to be consistant, play good music and be nice to people dropping in. Good luck.

I think people with several friends all go together as a party to a club. So when they come to you you are busy for several days, then they move on. Think it is a fact of SL life.
I did in fact over the weekend run through my LMs created since I joined SL, some no longer there others empty of people.

You could have given details of your club here, who knows all reading might visit you.

Best wishes
Love
June

Hi Kenlee and welcome to the forum

As a music hopper ...... here my 2c

The audience numbers your events will see IMHO depend on:

- clean and clear listing in live music events, and yes... mention the genre, some will draw more people in than others (in terms of DJs, the 80s seem very popular)

- timing .... some days and hours are more popular than others (check the listings at around 1 pm sometime.....)

- competition .... at some hours (see above) there can be as many as 30 gigs going on and live music listeners are a funny bunch, if one or more of the bigger names are playing that's where you'll find the hard core.

- connections.... controversial perhaps, but there is a certain level of in-crowdness going on

If you haven't already, check out the SL Music Community forums:
http://slmc.myfastforum.org/

Good luck with your venue!

Is that good for attendance? I have no idea, but perhaps this way repeat visitors are put-off if they show up on the "wrong" night. Speaking just for myself, I prefer mixed genre within a single DJ set... but this may be totally idiosyncratic for all I know.

Another thing I wonder about is the impact of live music venues on the popularity of clubs playing recorded music. It's probably two very different crowds, but my vague sense is that more live performance is happening to good audiences, while attendance at clubs is generally decreasing. Whether those are linked--or even objectively accurate--I don't know.

Actually Qie might have a point there.
The live music scene is definitely on the rise, audience numbers seem to be growing at pretty much every gig I go to (average 5 a night, approx 5 nights a week).
A musician friend of mine mentioned to me the other day that his DJing friend was struggling to attract audiences for the first time ever.
Perhaps these are linked? Interesting......

'tis true, I've just spent pretty much the whole weekend typing:

"Oh My GOD remember this. Whooo hooo The Final Countdown!! Yes!! Joey Tempest!!"

and so on.

I rarely got out my armchair by the fire though - ahhh the onset of old age.

Trouble is when you then remember what you actually wore at the time .. and one goes predictably quiet ....


Er ..DJ? .. got any Acker Bilk?

As it so happens, I'm studying club traffic. I'm approaching it from a how-do-residents-find-cool-stuff perspective, and not a how-do-clubs-get-noticed perspective. Still, I intend to release a list of suggestions to club owners, since some clubs are doomed by their own mistakes.

Preliminary, off the top of my head...

1. Can you find yourself in search? If you can't, your customers can't. I can't tell you how many places have named themselves such that they can't be found looking for them by name. (A) Name the parcel the same as the club name, and list it in parcel search (L$30 per week) (B) Don't use common words as a club name, or if you do, make sure the word "club" (or ballroom, or whatever) is part of the name (C) Don't put special characters in the middle of the name (e.g. :::Club Blorkfest::: is better than Club :::Blorkfest::: ). The new search is better than the old at finding clubs by name, but that may change once it has been gamed into uselessness. Also make sure you can be found by music genre. (D) Put your club in your profile picks. A surprising number of club owners don't do this!

2. Where do people land when they follow the landmark you provide in your classified ad? It seems people think it's a good idea to land potential patrons in the middle of a mall. This is dumb. Maybe everything rezzes instantly for you and the sign you placed is obvious to you, but I can't tell you how many times I've landed and wondered, where the hell is the club?

Note that when you land after teleport you are always facing the same direction (west, I believe). Place your club entrance on the east side of the club, if you can, and put your landing point at the entrance. People landing can't help but see the club.

Clear your cache and test your landing point to experience your club as your visitors do.

Don't put the landing point on the dance floor. It kinda spoils the mood having grey and missing image avatars dropping on your head in a club.

3. Do all the vendors and ads really pay well? I can tell you they make the club crass. A mall with a dancefloor is not a club.

4. Is your classified ad well-focused? If it looks like keyword spam then it doesn't look like a club. If it looks like a mall then it doesn't look like a club. If it lists every conceivable genre of msuic then I have no clue if it plays what I want to hear. If it lists no music genre then I have no idea if it plays what I want to hear. Is your ad accurate? If I don't find what I'm expecting I'll be annoyed.

5. Does your stream have station IDs? Station IDs are not danceable. Get a less commercial stream. Live DJs are best, but short of that, at least put together a good music program. Live DJs that speak as part of the program (and *NOT* just canned between-song gabbering), take requests and react to people at the club make it seem more like you are at an event than a pre-recorded program. If you can only do a pre-recorded program, at least have staff on hand who can chat with patrons. Flashing lights and an audio stream do not make a club.

6. Landmark and notecard spam is annoying. If I like the place I'll landmark it myself, thankyouverymuch.

7. Is the place attractive? Really? Is it large enough for the camera and a bunch of patrons? Is it not near ad farms, malls and plywood experiments? Are your dance animations good, and do you have more than one? If you've set up a club without visiting every club you can find then you're probably fooling yourself. There are some amazing clubs out there. What makes you think you can compete? Do your homework, be realistic, and make your club your best effort.

8. Can you alt-zoom the camera around inside? Can you actually click on the tip jar or the dance machine? The lights in some clubs make for a frustrating experience. It's difficult to move the camera or click on anything because the lights are in the way.

9. Are there campers? Clubs are social spaces. Bots and campers don't socialize.

Excellent post all round Anya. I quote the above as even gorgeous, well-built places can just get deserted and die.
I wasn't around to witness the fine details of The Three Lions' demise, nor Mons Venus or Red Velvet (MIA) but miss them all.
And please!! Can anyone give me a reason for Cellar's existance? It's a superb build. Eerie atmosphere and gi-huge .. but I've only ever met two other people in the twin sim .. and one of those was Morgaine! How can anyone afford to just let a sim sit like that? Not even a tip jar!!!

Apparently Cellar is still in development and scheduled for actual release about this time next year. It was mentioned recently in Warren Ellis' column via Reuters.

We love to go dancing, so really fun dance scripts are a must-have. I've been to clubs that have salsa and slow-dance script balls (whatever they're called) for hard rock. What's with that? Most excellent was a mosh script, but the club that had it was empty People attract people - no one wants to be alone in a club.
Maybe you could hire some dancers?

I also love going to clubs to see what everyone's wearing, so being able to zoom around is a must. My current favourite for that (and dance scripts) is Sanctuary Rock.
Trouble is, you have to walk through a mall to get there and it's terribly lagged. Once on the floor, all is well, though.

Live DJ is also fun, if they know what they're doing. Prizes are one way of keeping people around for a while (if they must be present to see if they've won).

At this time, I am also looking for a formal place to go dancing, mainly because I found a stunning formal gown. Salsa would be okay Hard to sort through the search results sometimes, though.

Send me the name of your club, Kenlee, we'd love to check it out.

C.

Excellent post Anya.

May I add one club a male friend goes to asks him to detach his "male part" even though it not showing. He as stopped going there.

Some girl friends have thier own dances (chimea?) and some venues have "no scripts" so they can't use them.

Love
June

Thanks for that Aki, that is astounding. I first came across the old school about 6 months ago so it's going to be another year before they expect to make it a commercial prospect? Any idea in what kind of genre?

Brann, I keep forgetting the rest of the name of one of my favourite ballrooms, Purple something or other. Has a nice little mall outside but it's still a nice ballroom. Also White Rose, two different locations one in Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Oh and Phat Kats of course!

Morgaine and I discovered another one last night, Everfrost

I'm a club hopper but ive found my time online lately doing seasonal stuff rather than checking out the clubs.

I also run parties and have had friends say similar when ive been tping them over... So I figure it's just the time of year.

However days-wise weekends are kickass, mid week not quite as pumpin'

And getting the timezones right too.

Mixed genres are cool as long as its not random on the day, people come to expect events like regularity over change. Contests are always fun! luv going to a club and winning a contest

Clubs will have thier highs and lows in spurts it's just the way things are..i have been running clubs for the past year and a half and dancing for them aswell..
the holidays do have an affect on traffic.. not a major one but you will see a slowdown unless you are using some form of camping which i would never advise anyone..

if you have dancers in your club the music is a very important key..good dj's not talking thru the songs but in the change overs can build up a good base..

events are good but if your traffic is leaving right after the event then it's not the club drawing them but the event itself..in clubs i have had control in running we used the events mainly to attract people to the club then in hopes of them finding things in the club that would make them come back..
a good friendly helpful staff can make that happen more than anything..

dj's come and go ,dancers come and go and staff in general come and go..some patrons follow if they do..

Depending on the type of club you have is how you go about your plan and what you want in it..
if you want a friendly club that you are trying to build a strong base for return customers..
make the experience for the customer the best while they are there..try putting in a few games or things people may find fun..

if you want traffic and numbers..camping and flooding events will get you up there..the music won't even matter then really..it's a cold atmosphere..and one that leaves the club empty when they are done..

i've had alot of success in building traffic for clubs in the past nothing is a bigger killer than drama..i have had a few clubs close to the popular list back before it was all about camping
only to see that last minute shot of drama come in and rip it all down ..that or the owners get greedy and feel they have it under control and try to clutter up a good thing instead of letting it grow..keep your staff happy and have good drama trouble shooters and a route for your staff to keep it from infesting everyone..keep managers close and caring to the staff..if egos show up in staff expect drama to follow soon after..cut it off at the source by having a chat informing the person nobody is bigger than the plan..if they go then you have only lost one or two..

i could go on all day on what makes a club work and what could kill them or slow them down..

if you want a fun place filled with good people you start at the staff..
Quality brings quality and longevity..
the popular list is a joke itself..since it became flooded with nothing but camping and free sex clubs and money buffs i've taken anything to get thier off my list for what makes a club truely a success..
make it about the customer and staff and not about coming in and clicking the lights on and flipping a few buttons to get things rolling..it takes alot of effort to really make a good quality club..
if a club is being talked about i don't care if you have the port in the next sim.they will find a way to it ..word of mouth is your best advertisment .after all good things grow in time not over night..

let the holidays die down and pick a few types of music that are not too far apart in genre and get a few decent dj's..you don't need stars..i've even ran clubs without dj's and have done well but they do add to the fun..just make sure they are not killing the music by talking over it..i have gotten more complaints about dj's doing that than anything..you don't want silent nes either just sitting there collecting a paycheck..don't use long 15 minute drawn out songs ..throw some energy in there and keep the place hopping..the short 3 to 5 minute songs keeps the dj's alive on the mic and gives a good feel on the dance floor and to the club..15 to 20 minute drawn out songs and the place becomes boring..

anyways ..i'm sure after christmas the loyal customers will come back..they always do =)
good luck *winks*

Wow! You guys have all given me such great information! I really appreciate it. So in response to some of the questions set forth by Anya:

1. Yes! KASH Club is easily located in search, including under keywords. Parcel and club are identically named and listed in search. No special characters. The club is in the Profile picks of every single staff member as well as myself and the other owner.

2. People land in the middle of the courtyard, facing the club's entrance. You really can't miss it.

3. We don't have many ads at all. We didn't want to cheapen the club like that.

4. We have ads for our events. Each ad is tailored specifically to that event and the type of music being played. We try to keep that as clear as possible.

5. We have our own stream that our live DJs use to play; they take a lot of requests as well. We also have hosts who engage the patrons. Plus, the other owner and I always attend and chat up the patrons. We don't have flashing lights, but we do have spinning lights... XD

6. I don't think we spam people with landmarks and notecards. I think we just allow people to get that stuff for themselves from our podium at the entrance.

7. We get complimented on the look of the club quite often, and it's adequately spacious (although certainly not cavernous). We have nonintrusive blight walls and a full enclosed space which would block out any ads that might be on surrounding parcels. We have the top-of-the-line dance animations and lots of them for both males and females. As I said originally, we wanted to create a place where we would want to hang out, where people could relax, listen to good music, and have a good time without dealing with constant drama and egos. We've worked at enough places to know what's NOT going to work.

8. Camera zooming works great in the club. The tipjars and dance machines are very open and work. The lighting is not intrusive.

9. No campers. EVER. It's not the numbers that are important to us. It's not the money. It's just having a good time and sharing that good time. Can't do that when you're loaded down with campers.

In case anyone's interested in coming to KASH Club, we only have events from 8 to 10PM SLT Sunday through Friday. I myself DJ the 80s night on Tuesdays. I just like playing the songs--I don't care if it's just a 'private party' with me and my host--but I'd like for there to be people for the other DJs.

And once again, thank you all for your tremendous input! It's been awesome!

Just inspecting Kash Club now, it is very pleasent to the eye, my favorite colour is blue, lol.
Only me there. 5pm UK time.
Nice female dance I'm doing.
I will return, best wishes to its sucess.
Love June

If you are mainly doing it for you and your friends, does it really matter how to get ppl there?

If word gets out, ppl will show up, no biggie

Just sit back and enjoy it with your friends and know that you guys have a great place to hang out

If getting other people there is really that much of a concern, I can not help but wonder why.

when I had my club up and doing it just for friends, we would get together and party and such, and sometimes I would list it as an event.

When no one new showed up and I felt let down, I questioned myself why... (still no answer)

my friends moved on eventually, and I closed the club.

If I wanted to have a club to draw people in, events are the answer. Offer the public some free money and you will get the folks.

If the club is popular based on it's own merits, that comes with time and I feel, word of mouth.

(anywho that is my opinion)

My personal opinion here, but rotating the music played is not a way to get me to return.

I may log on and think, "what do i feel like today?" If I feel like banging my head, the last thing i want is to zone in to Sanctuary only to be greeted with the sounds of disco. I may feel like dressing in my nicest gown (and I have several i paid a lot of money for ) and making my way to Frank's place for a little Jazz and ballroom dancing; I would hate it if i showed up and they were having Techno night. In other words, how do I know if what I want to listen to is what you are playing. I could always look it up, but why do that when I know Fury Vermin are playing alternative at the Dragon's Roost.

And before you say you will have a group that sends out announcements ... I hate those groups. I go to Frank's and Sanctuary but do not belong to their groups because of the constant spam. I really don't want a group announcement for every DJ change.

So how do find a new club?
I search for the music I want to listen to in places. "Jazz" for instance. I start going down the list ignoring all the places I have found before in other lists. Pick a club that looks nice in the picture. Search the ad for "freebies" or "camping" or any of that and ignore those. When I get down to under 5K traffic (or before usually) I start over. This is how I find normal dance clubs. DL's are a plus but they don't beat out a place I can find a date for the night :)

janice very good point

I too think mixing up the music is a bad thing
stick with one genre and play that, (of course being the club is for you and not a club to make money in SL, what you choose to do will not really matter as long as you and your friends are having fun)

I go back on my DSL tomorrow..i'll make sure i stop into Kash and dance a few songs..it sounds like a good place to visit =)

Agreed. Morgaine and I usually have a good idea of what kind of music we want and pick the place accordingly. We kind of polarise between a ballroom for a romantic, peaceful setting or a club where we assume the pace can be a little more lively. A spin-off of this is the range of available dances. It seems that both ballrooms and clubs have a similar mix of slows, tangos, salsas and waltzes and the clubs will have an additional dance machine and maybe a line dance.

I don't think we've ever been to a ballroom where they have all dance pairs occupied but of course, the upshot of approaching that situation is lag which tends to dissuade some from staying hence self-regulating. In fact, the lag I believe is the only criticism I've ever heard of the famed Three Lions Pub, possibly a victim of its own success?

I think the mechanics of SecondLife precludes a happy 'busy' state tbh. A multi-genre nightspot doesn't personally appeal to me. Though I have a wide taste in music I don't particularly want to hear them all in SL lol. The tallying of music with poses can present its own problem for example the strange case of Morgaine and I trying to tango to rap the other evening

Just my 2c of course, but......
On the different styles of music thing:

I went to around about 8 live music gigs last night at 4 different venues.
At every venue, the style of music varied wildly.

I might go to a venue to hear one of my favourite musicians and then hang around for the next act, especially if it's someone I haven't heard before.

Now this next act may or may not be entirely my taste in music, but if they're any good, I will have had a lovely surprise, regardless of the style of music they play

Of course, ballrooms are a different kettle of fish altogether. I've been known to waltz to hard rock

Yay Sally for talking about the Live Music scene! I've recently started attending live music sessions and they are awesome! I feel like a whole new section of SL has opened before my eyes. Anyway, my two cents; agreed on the music genre, unless you have a specified day like thursdays or something where you switch genres. If you normally play rock, maybe switch to disco or jazz or whatever on THAT DAY ONLY. Regulars will get the idea that thursdays are "new genre day" and if you post it in events, you might pull in some newcomers.