Seeking a civil lawyer in the US ASAP

Psst! I heard Lindal wears second hand hair!

Don`t you mean "HARE" ehhehehehe

I do not neither! I won't wear anything unless it's been tested by at least three other girls first.

Tiberious, can I borrow your lawyer when you're done with him?

Dear Ms. Tempel:

Be advised that this office represents Lindal Kidd with regards to potentially defamatory statements made regarding her use of certain types of substandard hair. My client takes her reputation as a quality hair user quite seriously and has been severely damaged as a result of your patently untrue commentary...blah blah blah...knock it the hell off or we'll sue you.

Seriously, WTF is the deal here. Why does the OP need a lawyer? Can someone PM me or something? I feel like I'm missing an inside joke.

I dunno, Tiberious is angry at his nephew, some guy named Caligula I think, something about an inheritance...

Dear Mr. Recreant,

Yeah? I'd like to see you try. Lindal over there admitted that she's a third-hand hair user, so there. Damn lawyers. Always getting in my hair.

Sincerely,
Oryx Rox Tempel

I'm with you on this Trout. I can't imagine anyone posting this thinking they'd get a serious reply without wanting to pull others into drama. Kind of like a friend of mine who loves to get attention sulking in the corner waiting for people to ask what's wrong. Her response is always "Nothing. I'm fine"

I'm also dying to know if the persons actual name was defamed or if they think real defamation can occur by saying something about the name of someones avatar.

What's wrong, Bradley?

Nothing! I'm fine. *sniff*

Raymond been mean to you again?

I AM a lawyer in RL. My suggestion would be to contact the Second Life Bar Association and/or Benjamin Noble. You can possibly get a referral to someone in your area from them.

Sooz

@OP
good luck with the lawyer route, I doubt many quality lawyers would even look at it, but you never know

@Susanne Pascale
that's the funniest nickname ever, you win a pie =)

@general
if this IS about the sky news article I can see the possibilities, via locations shown, any av names mentioned or shown... and we won't get into the whole overgeneralization argument (for example user behavior on publicly accesible land?)

coincidentally this is another reason for the "naming names" policy... keeps LL out of possible entanglements with users claiming business status... since they are the fish with the deep pockets

scenario:
userA: userB's products are crap and don't work
userB: that's a lie, and I'm losing business because of it, I'm gonna sue
Lawyer4userB: well userA has no money, let's go after LL for aiding the defamation, they've got plenty of money

doesn't matter if they win or not, LL gets entangled, has to pay legal fees for defense and time spent, and may not even be able to recoup them from userB since they're probably nearly as poor as userA... its a case of "This is why we can't have nice things"

@Strife?
IBTL =)

Damn. That'll teach me to open my mouth instead of my mouthpiece. Sorry, Trout. You're still on retainer.

Tiberious, if this has something to do with the sky news yellow-journalism piece, you will actually find alot of support here. See the locked thread from earlier this week, titled, "Sky News has a go at SL" Please don't take the banter and jokes personally; we make jokes at every occasion. It has nothing to do with you. Most of the time when someone comes in here asking for a lawyer, it IS a big joke. I am sure you would agree, if you saw some of the situations people think justify a lawyer, around here. For this reason, i think the joke-makers are ready to pounce when they see a post requesting a lawyer which lacks details as above. However, you may be an exception. If the incident in question involves false statements about your SL avatar or location getting into the real world media, then this is something I hope you are able to pursue legally in the real world. Unfortunately most of the time someone making an op like yours, above, is usually referring to some kind of in-world drama. I apologize for the other people in the forum who assume this is the case. Even more unfortunately, I believe you are in uncharted waters, legally. I am sending you a PM with the only lead I have ... a very weak one. Good luck.

I've never heard that before. What is your basis for that?

The EFF Blogger's FAQ page for defamation law, at http://w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-defamation.php, says "...a defamation claim, the person ... need not be mentioned by name — the plaintiff only needs to be reasonably identifiable." This doesn't prove that your assertion is wrong, but it does call it into question.

For example, if I run a business under a fictitious name, after filing a dba, and someone defames the business name, that ought to be a valid defation claim. Similarly for an actor using a stage name. I would think that the issue isn't whether the name can be traced back to a real name but whether or not the person can show damages.


Of course RL law applies to avatars. It just doesn't treat the avatar as a physical person (or physical fictitious person, such as a corporation). But obviously, if an avatar says something slanderous about a RL person, that person would be able to subpoena LL for the identity of the person owning the avatar, and make a claim against that person for the act of the avater. Conversely, if someone is running a bona fide business as an avatar, and that business is damaged illegally, then there's a legitimate claim. Conceivably, the claim may be dependent upon whether or not the person filed a dba for operating under the avater name.

If a person isn't running a business, then the question isn't whether or not RL law applies (it does), the question is whether there are any damages.

Remember, LL has no authority to suspend RL law. In many cases, our contract under the TOS (if it's even enforceable) could modify the situation. It's not clear whether LL could enforce a provision prohibiting one user from suing another for defation in-world, but I don't recall seeing any such provision in the TOS.



Case law applies in-world just like statue law applies. It may be a hornet's nest, it may be difficult to figure out how it applies, it's likely to break new ground, but the validity doesn't go away. True, you might need an exceptional lawyer who'd be willing to explore new territory, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

For this reason, I think it isn't unreasonable to look for a lawyer in SL as well as RL. You might just use them as a consultant to a defamation specialist hired in RL - but it certainly couldn't hurt to have a lawyer familiar with SL on the team.

For this type of matter, the plaintiff would need to have a lot of money in order to bring a defamation case to court. You wouldn't want to hire someone from a small firm - you'd want someone in a large firm with experienced litigators (not saying small firms are not good - they just don't have the resources a larger firm has). Just finding the jurisdiction the case would have to be filed in would cause a huge headache for a small firm. =)

Good luck to you.

You mean Jenna Jameson isn't her real name???

@ Lindal: Are you sure that keeping Trout as your retainer isn't just biting off more than you can chew?

Only if the lawyer is tested by at least three girls first.

See, this is why I'm not a lawyer. Kidd, I don't disagree with anything you say. My argument hinges on the fact that the avatar is NOT identifiable as the person. Harm done to my avatar is (arguably) NOT harm done to me...and my avatar has no legal standing as a person. Yes, if you went the subpoena route and ferreted out the avatar's link to the person, then all that changes dramatically...as in the famous SexGen suit. (And in fact, I think Stroker COULD show damages, in that case).

Yes, RL law does apply to Second Life. We have lots of examples...VAT, ageplay, gambling. But it applies at the interface, the places where SL intersects the real world. INSIDE Second Life, there is no law but Governor Linden and the ToS. Hence, the "wild west" metaphor that a lot of people apply to SL. This is why Ginko and WSE and the Second Life Bank were able to get away with lots of Other People's Money.

And Adz, I agree with you too...as I said before, if Tiberious is talking about a real wold event, then he does need to get a real world attorney.

LOL !! Very, very few large firm lawyers have ACTUAL trial experience. They are good at generating large amounts of billable paperwork butonly themost senior partners have any trial experience. for trial experience, you are better off with small or mid sized firms.

the nick name "Sooz" has nothing to do with my profession..its just short for Susie.

Sooz

QFT. Plus, a large firm is not going to touch a case involving defamation in SL. There is no reasonable hope of recovery. Defamation is a very difficult cause of action to prove. The standard of proff is higher than other civil actions, there are several elements, so it is technically complex, and when the defendants are journalists, public policy favors allowing them more freedom to report, so everything weighs against you.

In addition to proving defamation, you need to prove damages. Good luck. Actual quantifiable damages in a defamation case are difficult, even when you take SL out of the picture and place the entire case in the real world. Keep in mind that you will have to prove damages in a large enough amount to make it worth sustaining the litigation. Expect the journalist to fight back and to have deeper pockets. Litigation like this, with experts and a full raft of discovery will run, in my jurisdiction, $50,000 to $100,000 before appeals, and that's for a longshot case.

lol where were you when I was getting beat up over lawyers fees. You just said it better then I ever did.

I'm innocent!!!!!

*hurriedly stuffs video tapes in the incinerator, then bribes the goat with tin cans and caramel sauce*

~Jessy

1. Lindal Kidd and Kidd Krasner are two different people!

2. "Sooz" would be a great license plate for a lawyer. Or for a guy named "Sue."

C. The place covered by SkyNews really was that suspicious-looking business that used to be next to the Gorean Market just a stone's throw from some of my rental parcels. (Okay, that wasn't this thread, but if it weren't for this thread, I'd have never figured it out.)

4. Even when discussing something as grave as retaining legal counsel, Friday Rules.