TOS Notice ( In Picks )

So my question is I personally have had these in my profiles for a while on a few different avatars but i just got to thinking is this wasted space or worth having in a profile ..

I've seen countless varations on this not saying one is more correct then another just a general conversation on the concept.

According to Linden Labs, disclosure of logs without prior consent in a violation of the ToS.

I am clearly stating to you, that by IM'ing me, having read or not having read these statements, you consent to being logged and that those logs can be used at my discretion without any further notice beyond these statements in this "Pick".

Under NO circumstances whatsoever do I give anyone permission to record any conversation with myself. Doing so will be a direct violation of the terms of service agreement and will result in an abuse report.

If you do NOT wish to be recorded, please let me know prior the conversation or do NOT message me.

Well, you cannot keep anyone from recording (logging) conversations with you, as the TOS simply says those logs cannot be shown to anyone else without your consent, but the actual logging is not against TOS.

I personally do not think that your statement about someone IMing you being an automatic consent to have the IMs released would fly with the Lindens if someone decided to pursue filing against you for it.

I clearly state that by logging into Second Life, you are giving me the right to record anything you say to me, either in open chat or IM or voice.

That is allowed per TOS. I can't show that to anyone else without permission though. That also is outlined in the TOS.

So, if I am understanding it right, you want permission to record everybody else's IMs to you but you want to get mad if they do the same back?

Hate to break it to you, but a notice that people will not see has pretty much no weight anyway. Not to mention that IM chat logging is part of the official LL client, there is also no way of telling it 'only log these people but not these' (and less ability to have it decide that based on reading profile picks).

I leave logging on all the time. I am an officer at several support areas and get called in to other trouble situations all the time. I never know (yes, it happens routinely) when I will need to scour my logs for who was at a certain location at a certain time, what was said, or even frantic searches for past information if someone threatens RL suicide.

Basically, short of LL telling me to, I do not turn off chat/IM logging for anyone. If you insist on your little policy then count this as a notice not to IM me.

The real question is this: Is anyone aware of Linden Lab ever taking disciplinary action against someone for posting a log file without consent?

It's bollocks.

Even within the United States, there are plenty of "two party consent" states (as opposed to others) and enforcement of all such stuff is spotty.

With regard to our service provider, they record *everything* anyway, and reserve the right to use it as they see fit.

What you are looking at is a sort of intimidation tactic designed to scare people into cowing down in chat communication.

Correct the person touched on it ..

What action if any does LL take ..

And thanks for the sarcastic personal attacks why i formed as a question for discussion not oww your a stupid ass it doesn't hold up for anything

I do not understand. Correct which person?

Handeled on a case by case basis. Most likely a warning the first time, suspension the second time and ban the third. Depending on who filed the AR and the nature of the chat log released it could well go straight to ban.


I think you are reading things wrong.
No one was sarcastic or made any sort of personal attack.

Mischievous, I'm more curious as to why you would want to reserve for yourself the right to publish IMs. To what end? How might you imagine yourself using this information?

And -- I'm sorry if this sounds like an attack -- why you would hide your intent away in such an unlikely spot? Why not at least put it up front in your 2nd Life profile, where people are more likely to see it?

To be honest, if I ran across a note like that in someone's picks, I'd be very very suspicious. And if someone DID publish an IM by me under this kind of specious justification, I'd be utterly furious.

It is really a moot point in any case. You do not have the right to wave your rights. It works the same way for LL's TOS which is why large parts of it have been declared unenforceable by various courts. Any right I do wave can be recovered at any time. I could conceivably tell you that you can specifically post some chat log you copied with me and later file an AR through LL because you posted it.

a lot depends on the case..when i filled an AR for this the person had gotten a 14 day ban..

i may not have been the only one they had done this to in the past but it stuck when i AR'd them..

putting up some auto consent anywhere doesn't really change the rules of the TOS..
it' not a rule we can change..

the person would have to say they give you permission..you cannot tell them they give you permission..especially from your picks..they don't IM you from your picks..

if it were the case it would leave all kinds of things open for auto consent..

if you get within 20 meters of me you give me the permission to orbit you a billion meters in the air..even if i had a flashing sign over my head that would not fly and i would probably get a ban..there would be just too many things that could take advantage of a loophole like that..

It means nothing. ToS says you can't publish stuff in SL and LL can do anything they like to enforce their whims, without giving reasons, whatever argument you might like to make . . .

Pep ( . . . but you can publish what you like outside SL.)

It would put me right off talking with someone with things like that in their picks, if by some remote chance I had actually read them first. Who goes round checking whole profiles before starting a conversation?

How can you say that nobody is allowed to record you? I, along with many, have auto logging on due to roleplaying where it may be needed after for moderation purposes. You think everyone has to go to their logs and turn them off before speaking?

I am very confused how you say you log all conversations but nobody else is allowed to.

The only thing that is against the TOS is pasting the logs to others without permission within SL. Personally I don't care if people log me, I don't say anything I would be ashamed of having repeated.

Your threats would just ring alarm bells to me.

If this notice is in Profile Picks, people might find it.

Instead, it should be encrypted using obscure symbols on a stone pyramid and buried in an undisclosed location under a Washington landmark. Just a suggestion.
We can fix that.

If you go search the Second Life Knowledge Base you will eventually find the article that clearly states LL's TOS ends at LL's "borders" meaning if your chat and IM logs are posted on some non LL web site there is nothing LL will do about it at all.

Don't want it shared? Don't type it.

As for recording and publishing voice recordings without advance permission that may be a different matter and before you go doing that I recommend you contact your local police department and perhaps a lawyer and see if you can be prosecuted for it. And the laws will differ depending upon where the other parties reside. Also if you are somehow affiliated with certain government agencies then you have extra rules on you but then you should already know that since you signed those annual notices.

Total crap.

More total crap.

If you actually believe what you say you have in your profile, then you need to wake up - truly.

What Phil said.

In practice, of course, the only thing that matters is what the Linden dealing with the alleged breach of the Terms of Service makes of it. In theory you could, if you had the time and money, challenge the Linden's decision in the courts, but I can't see any judge in the UK, at least, accepting the proposition that putting something like that in your profile enables you unilaterally to re-write the ToS insofar as they apply to you and people dealing with you.

If two people, both with messages in their picks like the one in the OP, IM each other, does this cause some kind of rift in the space time continuum?

I was always told to never divide 0 with 0..Bad things will happen.

Since it's a bloody pain to find it, here's the link:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Someone_in_Second_Life_is_distributing_chat_logs_within_Second_Life_or_on_the_Second_Life_forums.

It's wasted space.

The first statement doesn't constitute prior consent. No one has to read it to IM you and no one has to agree to it to engage in IM's with you. The only way to establish consent with current SL IM mechanics is for it to be an explicit agreement (simplest way is by having the consent from the IM participant in the log itself). The only way your notification would work is if SL had the option of it popping up in a notification window when someone tries to engage in an IM conversation with your or vice versa, and would be blocked from doing so until he or she clicks an "I Agree" button.

The second one is worthless because no one has to read it to IM you, you don't need it if you don't give consent, and you can't rely on it if you do give consent. As soon as you give consent you've revoked the notice for that person.

Go ahead and delete them and use them for something else.

I don't think you are even supposed to say "divide 0 with 0".

What you heard must be true, because bad things are in fact happening.

"1) Whether you/they have read this posting or not, we hereby clearly notify specifically you and any other persons on behalf of our client who deny our clients permission to record their chat that our client wishes not to be recorded, quoted, copied or reproduced by you/them in Group Chat, IM, via chat written on prims, arrangement or sculpting of prims or voice even in local chat when not directly conversing, and therefore advise you and those parties that you/they must turn off any chat logging immediately and completely for otherwise meeting our client inworld or even entering the same sim or group IM would result in recording of our client's conversation therefore putting you/them in direct violation of their rights under the TOS enabling directliability for further legal action incuding all court costings for any legal proceedings ensued to obtain financial compensation for commercial, physical and emotional damages caused by you or those parties in any circumstances whatsoever.

2) If you/they do not state openly here that you/they have chat logging turned off and will not ever use the feature or turn it on within 30 days of this date, representing our client we must assume you/they are still using it forcing our client to AR you/them on sight or entering any communication distance or even common group IM for direct violation of our client's rights under the TOS and possibly initiate further legal action.

3) Our client also renounces you/them all permission on any pre-recorded material to this date, hence you/they must immediately search all your logs/recordings of all Chat/Voice and delete any recordings, copies or quotes of our client's conversations and state you/they have done this within 30 days or be guilty of violating our client's rights under the TOS and therefore be liable to an AR and further legal action.

10) Furthermore if anyone/avatar wishes to deny our client the right to repost their content from these forums and still retain the right to copy, then you/they too must here agree to the above conditions within 30 days hence automatically denying them any permission or rights to repost or have reposted any of my material precluding use of the inbuilt quote tool. This permission is also denied to any parties denying our client permission to record their chat or conversation or Voice and wishing to retain permission to record our client inworld.

11) You/they further more must state here that you/they will not copy any content that our client has posted on the forums from the forums to any other media as this is also a violation of TOS forcing our client to report you/them to LL and possible further legal action.

99) Precluding the inbuilt quote feature of this forum, our client also denies specifically you the real world person operating the SL avatar "Mischievous Jinx", all alternative accounts and all parties representing you/your avatar permission to copy/reproduce any of our client's posting or content from within SL or these forums including this document.

24 failure to point out spelling errors in this document is punishible by toe nibbling, unless such errors are reported within 30 days.

300) Any reply to this announcing a leaving of SL for ever must be validated by giving my client all your stuff.

301) Nibbling of our clients toes in any situation where our client hasthey have not IM'd the party nibbling will be taken as an unwanted sexual advance and may result in a) consequenses outlined in clause 666 or b) marriage.

400) Failure to agree or comply also grants us, our client and our clients representatives your total agreeance to permission to record any and all conversations and communications and actions by you and your representatives for the purposes of possible further legal and other actions.

407) Copying this document is permitted unless you are subject to clauses 1, 10, 99 or 500 and therfore makes stealing it impossible to some people unless of course they somehow manage to remove the original document from the forum.

500) If at anytime you have been declared a "blithering stupendous pre-natal idiot" by our client or a representative of our client has declared you a "blithering stupendous pre-natal idiot" you are to subject to the denial of permission to copy, quote or repoduce any communication or content produced inworld or the forums by our client in anyway at all, in any circumstances.

513) Loud repetative gestures such as "HOOOOOOOOOOO!" in our clients presence grant permission for our client to orbit you or a 30 day sentence wearing a plywood prim on your head.

600) Any other condition we feel like adding.

666) Not agreeing to these conditions or failing to respond within 30 days of this date constitutes agreement to these conditions and liability for all consequenses in any circumstances to all travel, transport, accommodation, meals, alcohol, fuel or ammunition usage, injuries, casualties, damages, collateral injuries, collateral damages, collateral casualties, pie, cleaning expenses, taxes incured and legal costings, armaegeddon ensured in the process of any legal, commercial, diplomatic, economic, intergalactic, physical, psychological, biochemical, nuclear or supernatrual action initiated by us or our client or our clients representatives in any Virtual World, Forum, media type on any plane of existance, plane of afterlife, the river Styx and in any of the 5 known and other unknown dimensions.

Wolfram and Hart Lawyers,

Representing our client Tegg Bode"

Epic LOLz...


PS - I was too scared to quote you

Since I don't know exactly what situations you are trying to avoid I think the only advice I can add is to mention that only I can have a conversation with "myself". And only I can record a conversation a conversation with "myself". If you or a third person is involved you or he or she (or they)would be doing with "me". I don't know if you'll find this helpful...