Now what do I do?

That's very ggod news! If I'm not mistakem blacklisted objects can't be rezzed. I don't know what happens to already rezzed objects that become blacklisted.

It makes Argent's question more relevant.

That would be an interesting request to hear! "Hey, I bought ripped copies of your stuff and have now lost it all, and even though I didn't pay a dime your way and you are a victim too, would you help *me* out, sir?"

If anyone has the nerve to be *upset at a content creator* after losing stuff that was ripped from that content creator, they have some deeply serious issues no discount offer will resolve.

And if they are upset in general, well, they can contact Linden Research.

Once money for ripped content has been extracted by content thieves... the money is already gone. How content creators want to actualise the damage, either in terms of reduced item sales or reduced revenue... that's up to them individually.

in real life, at least where I live, when somebody receives stolen goods, and the police know about it, one of two things happens.

If they knew it was stolen in advance, they are treated like the criminals that they truly are. Their stolen goods are confiscated, and they are arrested.

If they're innocent and did not know they were buying stolen goods, they will not be placed under arrest. The merchandise? Still gone.

You cannot ever keep stolen goods, under any circumstances. It's not punishment, it's justice.

In SL it is entirely fair, appropriate, and right for your purchases to vanish whether you like it or not, if the things you have bought are illegal copies. Getting your money back would be nice, but that also depends on Linden Lab's ability to collect it from the guilty parties.

Yes. Which the customer (and his friends will remember) next time they shop. That you laughed at them. Very sound plan there.

Where did I say that they should be laughed at? I would most certainly not do that. Perhaps you are projecting someone else's take upon things, onto me?

I think the better argument would be.. "I paid money for this stuff, not knowing that it was ripped, now you are telling me that it was all along and my money is gone."

I think there was a similar question on another thread - "What's a consumer's duty with regard to content theft?" The problem is that in SL, thieves can have stores that look absolutely professional and fine, rather than obviously selling from the backs of trucks. If you say they should only buy from places they trust then, well, how do they find out that they can trust you?

I hear things like that now and then. I've given people free stuff, too, if they can't afford it. And you know what, some of them bought more stuff afterward. It's really great when being a nice guy is also profitable.

I will apologise for that. But it's the idea I got from your post. "Sorry, your bad luck, your loss. Complain to LL, not to me."

I agree. While I would sure THINK what Des posted ("Sheesh, of all the nerve!", I (and I believe, he) would more likely say something to that person like,

"I'm sorry, sir. Those items were stolen from me and sold to you illegally. Linden Lab has deleted the illegal copies of the items, and has banned the thief from Second Life. I'm afraid I can't be responsible for your loss. If you'd like to purchase legitimate copies of the items, my store is at (SLURL)."

I agree. But I think LL can, and should, step up in a big way. They could take the PR burden off the creator. For example:

> I do not know how blacklisting is implemented, but it has got to involve either a check when rezzing or a change to the asset server. Either way, the resident could be notified via IM or email that so-and-so item was stolen content and was removed.

> LL should reimburse residents who paid money for stolen content. They have transaction records, and they also have personnel whose job description is "data mining". Using checkpointed copies of the asset servers, run background jobs that reimburse anyone who has actually paid $L for stolen content. Personally, I would not reimburse at 100% - I would reimburse at less, and name the transaction "Reimbursement for n item stolen content".
.

Oh, no need to apologise for anything, it's just forums banter. Once upon a time I was a modestly successful merchant (about 700 USD/mo) here, and rising... it's just that the land business sort of took over all my time.

I'd had my stuff copied prim by prim, I'd literally watched people do it *in my own store*, I've heard every possible excuse from all manner of scammers also. This was all before copybot was made. And in all that time, I never laughed at anybody, even real scammers that I'd caught in the act.

What I found as a merchant, and indeed I still find as a land baron, is that 95% of all people are decent. Really, really decent. The type of person who would catch a financial mistake in their favour, and tell you. The remaining five percent would trade their grandma for money if they could, though.

Bright Non Blue- Popup:

Your item X has been determined to stolen content from Creator Y, which you did not know at the time. You have the option of paying the actual creator the price difference and receiving a replacement or a refund with the item staying deleted:

Buttons - (Refund) (Pay N)

------------------------------

Creator gets paid, Innocent buyer gets his item or a refund, LL eats any losses they cannot recover from the thief. Right now LL *makes* money from thieves, we need to reverse that incentive and make it cost them not to do anything about it

Make the popup rainbow colored and we have a deal.

OK, flashing Torley watermelon-colored popup... you are right though, blue is too easily ignored in the pile of login popups, I edited comment 88 to fix that. Thanks

To make that truly effective, don't allow refund.

Otherwise people will *seek* copybotted stuff, just to get the refund option.

I know of people with upwards of 30,000 items in inventory, and if they could press "refund" and get thousands of dollars back that instant for it, they would...

Ironically, if it was made an "upgrade or lose it with no refund", creators might actually seek to get their things copybotted, because that "price bumping" can be an effective sales technique!

I don't understand. Presumably refund would only pay back $L that the avatar already paid for the item; it would be a zero-gain option.

If I were administering the program, I would make it repay 75% of the amount paid originally, rounded down to the nearest $L. Thus, no reimbursement of $L1 items would be paid.

If they paid $20,000 for a toilet they deserve whatever happens to them.




I never said things were LISTED as boxes. Sheesh. Why do people rely so heavily upon statistics, which rely upon people always telling the truth?

I've seen many items that only have a box for the ad's photograph which is what I originally said. I don't have to go look again.

and you know how many of those are actually sold?

But as Desmond said, that would be a good deal for old things that are lying around in inventory that are no longer ever used. The only choice at the moment is to sell them at a yard sale, or - if they're no-transfer - then.. um, well, deal with it. But a refund system, where it doesn't matter if they're transfer or not, and I don't have to wait for a buyer? Sounds great!

On the other hand, some kind of refund/compensation system for consumers would be necessary, to prevent adverse selection kicking in ("there's ten places selling this skin, at prices from L$500 to L$4000, only one is the legitimate one and I don't know which it is, so I'll buy the L$500 one so that I'm taking the smallest possible risk"

The issue is that a lot of content is purchased simply for the pleasure of purchasing it. Impulse buys. A lot of people simply love to shop for New and Shiny.

Even at 75% return, that's 75% back, instead of zero. The customer isn't often likely to go back to buy that old, boring stuff they are now tired of... some might, but they have tens of thousands of Old things to dig through in inventory already. And they bought that item when they were into, say, Elves, and now they are into Western...

What an $L refund does, is allow that New, Shiny, Latest Thing Shopping Experience (with Friends!). It would be great for consumers but prolly not much help for the content creator who sold you something in the past.

Why would I ask LL to delete my own content? And if I did so, I obiously don't give a rip about my customers, so the options are unimportant.

Nice thought, but generally not feasible.

On the other hand, if this was the norm then the time between buying something that turned out to be ripped and having that refund box (with the percentage of the refund likely based on how much LL was able to recover from the crook) come up would be more likely measured in hours than weeks or months. So you're probably still into elves, and may even be wearing the thing when the box comes up.