Bad news of the day: They're thinking of merging the Teen Grid into the main one

So why open up SL to the same crap?

Keep children off the main grid. If there's an educational issue where children and adults need to interact, keep it strictly to .edu islands. Do NOT let children leave them for any other part of SL, and do not let anyone else in.

Strictly speaking, it doesn't mean anything other than that Philip Linden is dissatisfied with the teen grid being too small and falling below the critical mass, and that is the focus of that sentence, nothing else.. It is obviously possible to find a solution in which the freedom of expression is not inhibited. The conspicuous absence of any reference to it, though, suggests - just like the sentence itself only _suggests_ - that it was not taken into consideration.

I agree. I can see the lawsuits piling up.

Kill the Teen grid if it's a failure, and forget about the lucrative 13-18 year old demographic.

Send it the way of Prodigy, the Newton and ESPN the Cell Phone.

this is a no win situation for everyone but the teens.

The very, very first person I met in SL confessed to being 14 years old.

I have met several other underage persons in SL, and one of them said they knew several other underage persons on the grid.

Guess what... they're Already Here.

<queue ominous music...>

I don't want teens in 99% of the main grid. But Your World, Your Imagination... I can *imagine* a setup with 1% of the grid, islands totally isolated away from the rest of the main grid, where joint educational opportunities, building classes, etc. could be conducted among all ages. I think it's crazy to think that adults and minors must never coexist; that makes no sense. Instead, I see that it's very possible, and very doable - for that 1% of the combined grid. Yes, the areas must be carefully watched; for example, Lindens could sweep through the areas checking for non-PG scripts, animations, textures, etc. on a regular basis.

People, at least many posting here, seem to have such a negative, dim view of most of humanity, thinking either everyone around the corner is a lurking pedophile, ready to jump on the nearest minor, or has their fingers poised to dial their closest sex-offense attorney and hoist a major lawsuit against SL.

I guess that is what troubles me way more than my fear of those two categories, do we have such a dim view of humanity as a whole? (I think I hear a combined chorus... going "YES!". Sigh. )

Oh my, is that a bra I see on the avatar photo on the opening page of sl (loged in) saying to spice up your avatar???

The very, very first person I met in SL confessed to being 14 years old.

I have met several other underage persons in SL, and one of them said they knew several other underage persons on the grid.

Guess what... they're Already Here.

<queue ominous music...>

I don't want teens in 99% of the main grid. But Your World, Your Imagination... I can *imagine* a setup with 1% of the grid, islands totally isolated away from the rest of the main grid, where joint educational opportunities, building classes, etc. could be conducted among all ages. I think it's crazy to think that adults and minors must never coexist; that makes no sense. Instead, I see that it's very possible, and very doable - for that 1% of the combined grid. Yes, the areas must be carefully watched; for example, Lindens could sweep through the areas checking for non-PG scripts, animations, textures, etc. on a regular basis.

People, at least many posting here, seem to have such a negative, dim view of most of humanity, thinking either everyone around the corner is a lurking pedophile, ready to jump on the nearest minor, or has their fingers poised to dial their closest sex-offense attorney and hoist a major lawsuit against SL.

I guess that is what troubles me way more than my fear of those two categories, do we have such a dim view of humanity as a whole? (I think I hear a combined chorus... going "YES!". Sigh. )

I am aware of that. I want fewer of them here, not more.

I don't believe everyone is either a lurking pedophile, or an incredibly naive parent who will have a stroke if their darling baby sees cartoon breasts. However, you know those people are both out there. Allow teenagers on the main grid, and sooner or later (probably sooner) there's some idiot "news" expose about how SL is "a virtual world awash in sex and porn.. and your children!"

If LL wants to modify the Teen Grid to something like you describe, great.

I see no benefit in allowing teenagers on the main grid.

i bet if people reported the ones they knew about there would be even less

I really don't want to have to deal with teenagers on SL. I have enough problems with them in first life and one of the reasons I first signed up with SL was to get away from those little pests.

Are they planning on having a teen proof fence or something so we can keep them out?

If this is LL's goal, they'll do it, no matter how much the residents protest it. It's a horrible idea - I'm worried about the legal implications for adults. Heaven forbid anyone speak freely when a teen might be present - it's against the law to swear in the presence of children in some places. Yes, I know some of them are already here, but you do have to say you're over 18 to get in.

If they do it, teens should be limited to PG-only sims, preferably islands, so they can't cam all over the mainland into mature sims to see things they shouldn't. The problem with the mainland PG sims is that most are scattered around with mature sims surrounding them. In fact, I would propose that teens only be allowed into island sims where estate owners have specifically applied to become a teen-approved location and are willing to monitor interactions closely. All visitors to these locations should be made aware that it is a teen-approved location and that they may be interacting with underage people there. I like the idea someone proposed earlier where teens have a different color name over their head so everyone can see they're underage when looking at them.

I don't want to have to always be on the lookout for underage people doing things they shouldn't, or adults doing things they shouldn't in the presence of underage people. I don't care how mature they think they are, if they are under 18 they are still somebody's children, and I would feel a responsibility to keep an eye on them if they were around. I'd rather not have to babysit other people's kids for free during my leisure time.

here is my opinion on the issue....sit down and get comfortable. Truth is we are not sure just what LL's final outcome will be with this project. Many diffrent mesures can be taken to protect "young eyes" from the realy graphic influences in the "adult grid" whne its easy for them to give them limits. they can easly censor just the teen avies can read in chat and in private ims cutting out key words and phrases. Changeing their name tag color identifyin them as a teen or listing it in their profile. Disableing the ability to teleport to non PG sims or isolate them from the normal regons and put them in a regon of the grid all their own, with there own sims and such just not assesable to us and our regons arnt acssesable to them either, but still on the same grid. Plenty of steps can be taken to ensure they are not exposed to the more graphic side of SL. Also it becomes ones personal responsiblility to conduct themself in an acceptible manor, i mean lets face it, thats how we should be actiing anyway, like adults. If you cant restrain yourself in SL like you do in RL then what does that say about your self control? All this merger is doing is forcing us to behave and act civilized tward the others around us and not behave like a bunch of sex crazed animals. Yes there is alot of freedom on SL but that dont mean that a person should not act civilized. the addition of teens on the grid may be a good idea or a bad one, but, who is to say just what will happen right now when not much info about the precautions LL is taking to ensure the teens are not exposed to the more x-rated side of SL; has been revealed yet. there are alot of people who think this is a bad idea ands alot of people who dont care either way. What is clear is that LL is trying to find ways to cut costs and they are pretty much gonna do whatever they want weather it is a good idea or not. and we are not sure if this is somthing they are deffanately gonna do or if its just somthing thay are just thinking about, wich can just as easy be droped as an idea and never happen. However if it does, will it mean SL will become a terrible online experiance? Just because teens are added to the grid? its ignorent to think they are not already on the adult grid. All you have to do is change the birthdate to make yourself over 18 and you are in. How many people honestly check that age verification crap anyway? Not many im willing to bet. So if this grid merger does take effect all that means is there will be a few extra people online now (not that SL can take the load...hasnt lately without disableing logins) but for the most part nothing will change all that much, and life as we know it isnt coming to an end. All that is gonna happen is we will just have to watch who we talk to and be careful of what you say to others around you, wich is what we all should be doing anyway...even without teens being added to the grid. Now im sure you are tired of reading this so ill end it here, i could go on all night but i think i pretty much got my point across.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, how will the kid avie groups (Hardknock Elementary, etc) deal with RL teenagers who want to play as kids? Almost all RL teens wont' play kid avies, but I think a few will. Any opinions on this?

Does this mean I can't streak through the welcome centers nakie any more?

Seriously, they will have to kill the un-loggable voice chat and force everyone to go to other options like Vent. The current open voice chat system is ripe for abuse, and some will abuse it to file ARs, etc for fun. At least with text chat you have a log to cover your butt with. They will also have to find a way so adults can deny any transfers and have it logged as such, so if the FBI comes a-callin, they can show that they were never in possession of anything.

Also, how do age verify someone properly when in 10 minutes, and some free web sources, you can be age verified as Richard Nixon?

they would have more room on the teen grid opening it up to where something like that could happen..
LL is looking at these teens and seeing the next generation of SL'ers and it's not gonna be 1%..whats gonna happen is a lot of restrictions..the only ones giving up anything in this will be the residents that have already built and invested in this place..
it would have been nice to know this was their intentions all along like they say it was..then maybe people would not be so shocked hearing it from some interview..
it really sucks to be the last to know this kind of change..maybe if they knew ahead of time they would have spent their energy else where instead of feeling like they wasted it..cause some are gonna pick up and move the second these other places get their economies going and from doing some reading a couple are real close..

it's LL's world..all the bitching and screaming won't change this one but it could change others that people never thought had a chance..
this was kind of a haven away from kids where adults could live their escapes..now it's gonna be a playground and we have to be adults again and watch what we say or do instead of relaxed and feel like we could open up and get to our inner expressions..

i don't know about you but right now i feel like a good part of my escape it getting yanked away and it won't be the first time..
if there is major change with all of this where we can't build or design or put up art that we feel good about then there will be other options for it..i'll deal with lag and rezz issues on a 5k max grid if it gets bad here in a heart beat..
i was never here for the money..it has always been about the escape..
maybe one day they will wake up and say to themselves..wow you know??we really do have some loyal residents..
but then again they could wake up one day and it be..we Had some loyal resident..
a lot of peoples stomachs are turning right now..and you can bet when word gets around there will be a lot more..

this is really more sad news then something that makes me mad..because i really like my sl and i just hope they keep mature the way it is..

One other thing to consider is that when the kids hear they are going to be turned loose on the sl maingrid, they are going to sign up by the hundreds of thousands!!!
Imagine 30 0r 40 thousand hell on wheels teens hitting the grid at prime time. These kids are going to get bored with sightseeing after the first week, after that its anybodys guess whats going to happen.
Bottom line is even if you play a PG game, your going to be impacted. Once they discover the endless high impact freebies, and griefer toys, the asset server ring is toast. That means any of us actually trying to get something done will just be out of luck.

I have never met anyone who said they were under 19 on second life main grid.

No please.

Nothing against teens, but - no please.

Festival seating, and one big grid. Bad ideas.

I guess this means the forums will become useless too imagine this thread with 12 year olds in it.
Its bad enough with adults acting like 12 year olds in these forums LOL .

I have to wonder if they have someone specifically assigned to think up asinine, self-defeating ideas for Second Life. This one ranks up there with the way they handled the issue of the Openspace servers by referring to those who did not abide by their unstated expectations as criminals, which caused previously paying Second Life customers to leave the grid, and their not-yet-enacted but discussed plan to place covenants on Mainland parcels. I am an adult and I enjoy Second Life because it is an adult environment where I and my fellow residents are allowed to curse, flirt, fight, and enjoy adult entertainments as long as they do not violate the rights of others. The current Mature/PG region classification system works because it is voluntary and since everyone (who isn't violating the TOS) is an adult, so the occasional "inappropriate content" in a PG sim is not the end of the world. If the grids are merged, the age verification system will change from being an obnoxious violation of resident privacy one can ignore to being something one must participate in to access much of the content that brings people to SL. Beyond this, it will as some have already pointed out, make the issue of being labeled a sex offender by falling for some teenager's deception regarding their age (if you think the age verification system cannot be fooled, you are a fool) and sending "age inappropriate" IMs or otherwise providing content much more likely. This idea, if enacted, will destroy the SL club industry because no one is going to take the legal risk running such a club would immediately entail. Showing Mature content to adults expecting PG content is one thing, showing it to children (even accidentally or based on deception) is grounds for legal action of the most serious reputation and life ruining kind. The current system provides a protection in that anyone underage on the main grid is there by deception which makes instances unlikely. Allowing teens on the main grid would make it a certainty, sooner or later with the likelihood being sooner. And here another issue: sometimes when one is engaged in "adult behavior", a simulator can crash without one's knowledge and when one is reconnected they are in a PG area. If the grids were merged, any teen who sees your naked AV can have you labeled a sex offender despite you being unaware of and not intending the incident. The law does not care.

Like putting covenants on Mainland, if the grid is merged I will be leaving and taking my $50/m in fees and the $50ish dollars a month in good purchases I make with me. Unlike Linden Labs, I am not a moron and will not be putting myself at risk for legal action by remaining in the resulting mess.

I don't get how the link to a directory of porn sites is relevant to my comment - unless you mean to emphasise the grim "You have reached an Adult web site" age-disclaimer page. Content does not by any means need to be sexual in nature in order to justify excluding children from adult/mature areas of SL. I have clear memories from childhood of sleepless nights caused by:

* Photographic spreads in National Geographic of casts made from the remains of people dying in the volcanic eruption at Pompeii;

* Idle and ignorant speculation by adults on the potentially harmful effects of radiation from television screens;

* Quite prescient speculation by adults regarding the potential effects of global pollution on climate change;

* Boris Karloff's spooky features in virtually every movie he made - including the comedies.

In my opinion it is very easy for adults to unintentionally disturb and threaten children in even the most harmless matters, which is why I deem it important to choose one's words carefully around youngsters and monitor their exposure to apparently innocent but nevertheless potentially disturbing subject matter.

Maintaining due care and respect for developing minds is hard work in this respect and, while I have no problem with this grave responsibility in RL, I log into the crazy blitz of SL to take a break from it.

Speaking as a former teenager, and as the person the parents call when confronted with problems from the current teenager in the house; I can easily solve this whole issue for LL. Teenagers don't WANT to hang out in SL with their parents. Hell, 99% of them don't even want to be around their parents in RL. Granted, there are plenty of people on the adult grid who act like dumbass teenagers, but at least you're not worried you're talking to an actual minor. Listen to your adult clients. We don't spend our hard earned $/L to put up with all the extra hassle. If you want the teen grid to have more access to virtual education, give the educators access to the teen grid.

After LL rams this into play, I'll just be glad that I won't have some teen in my household breaking into my account to pay for their realistic skin and latex outfits.

Why would LL do this?

As opposed to say lowering sim prices and removing the 'gotta buy a big sim to get a little sim' thing too.

If it's changes they want, I mean.