Is this good or bad news for SL?
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Jesse Barnett
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Join date: 21 May 2006
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11-08-2009 13:28
From: Ponsonby Low
The other big thing that makes Twitter and Facebook compelling to their fans is that EVERYONE CAN SEE HOW POPULAR YOU ARE.
SL completely fails, here. We are actually limited in the number of groups you can belong to. And when you walk into an SL club, who notices how many Friends you have?
Linden Lab could fix this latter by making it mandatory to have floating text with the number of Friends an avatar has, visible over the avatar's head at all times. And there must be no numerical limit.
This would bring in some Facebook/Twitter fans. However, the fact that there's no real way of communicating-at-a-glance a load of personal information about a person (and telling people to go to their Blog Profile or even their inworld Profile is no substitute) makes SL a fail for these people.
I rarely use SL as a social platform anymore but still feel it is vastly superior to Twitter or Facebook which are basically just self-advertisements. There is no other application available ANYWHERE that has given me the depths of conversation that I have experienced in SL with people from all over the world. Discussions that go on for hours upon hours and a connection that is hard to replicate with any other technology including the telephone. The ability to step outside yourself and disconnect from your RL existence gives you the ability to open yourself to possibilities that you could not elsewhere. How many people on Facebook or Twitter that you know actually list their deepest, darkest fantasies for example?
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I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime. From: someone I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-08-2009 13:28
From: Anya Ristow For instance? Are you willing to share some specific (i.e. named) places you go to meet people?
Curious, Lusk, Seal Cove, Ahern, Furnation Hell and Vista, The Lost Forest.
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-08-2009 13:29
From: Ponsonby Low The other big thing that makes Twitter and Facebook compelling to their fans is that EVERYONE CAN SEE HOW POPULAR YOU ARE.
Good, let them keep that to Twitter and Facebook. I see no value at all in fame for the sake of fame. I'd rather discover I'm famous (or notorious) by having someone go "oh, hey, I like your (stuff, writing, outfit, epigrams)" than having a bunch of people vote me +1. I've had plenty of positive karma or whatever on "social networking" sites and it completely fails to impress me.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-08-2009 13:31
From: Ponsonby Low I think so, too.
I think that fundamental aspects of SL make it unsuitable for the mass of people who spend time on Facebook and/or Twitter each day. (And I don't think the decision-makers at LL have noticed this fundamental disconnect.) Nope. All they see are the millions of pairs of eyeballs that they can one day get to look at corporate advertising.
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-08-2009 13:35
From: Cerise Sorbet I do mind. You read "all". I did not write "all". I took care to not write "all". You used an unqualified collective noun. That is so commonly used to imply all, or almost all, or virtually all, that it's a lost cause trying to correct that. If you mean "some" or even "many" you need to put that in, because otherwise people like me who don't know that you're trying to use language precisely will reach the wrong conclusion.
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-08-2009 13:40
From: Anya Ristow Yeah, watch the events. There aren't very many social events and they aren't very well attended. This looks like common wisdom rather than personal experience. I rarely hear mention of specific events people like to attend.
The only events I attend are the ones my friends ask me to. Oh, some more places I hang out with real people: Raglan Shire, Raglan Commons, Extrovirtual, and I don't even show up as a Tiny all that often. From: someone Almost all those places are empty nearly all the time. Yeh, they are. If one's empty, I go to another. I can teleport, after all. Most of the time I hit something going on within a handful of stops.
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Ponsonby Low
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11-08-2009 13:41
From: Brenda Connolly Nope. All they see are the millions of pairs of eyeballs that they can one day get to look at corporate advertising. Or more likely, NOT get. This inevitably segues into the "someone at the top at LL is secretly trying to kill SL" theories, because it does seem that LL is willfully ignoring genuine markets and courting markets that will get them nothing but bad word-of-mouth. I'd guess that the majority of Facebook/Twitter fans who give SL a try will dislike it and find it dull and boring. And the bad word-of-mouth will be compounded by bad word-of-Facebook (and Twitter)---there the negative remarks about Sl will sit online forever, for millions to read. Contrast this with the release of a recent CGI movie in which virtually ALL the marketing centered on How Cool The Immersive 3D Is!!!!! One 15-second SL ad, screened during the trailers for that movie, would have brought in many, many pairs of eyeballs for the corporate advertising LL would like to sell (and a nice jump in both concurrency numbers and paid Premium memberships, with all the attendant USD spending that implies.)
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Anya Ristow
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11-08-2009 13:42
From: Mickey Vandeverre Track down Hal's location. You get the best of both worlds. A fairly large group of people who are really chatting.....and an awesome conversation with Hal. I found him alone, naturally, and conversation with him would be awesomer if I could get him to move. He seems to think barbecuing hamsters is a good strategy, and agreed that chocolate was the solution to many problems. He's smarter than most avatars.
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Argent Stonecutter
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11-08-2009 13:45
From: Ponsonby Low I'd guess that the majority of Facebook/Twitter fans who give SL a try will dislike it and find it dull and boring.
FB and twitter and the rest are not real-time conversation. When someone is having a discussion in one of these places they might post a couple of lines of text, then do something for half an hour, then post another couple of lines of text, then do something else. THAT counts as being online and active. I've had online discussions through systems like this that took a couple of days to complete, and the whole thing fit on a page. They're not paced at all like SL. Added for Anya: if you walked into the middle of an SL discussion at Facebook pacing, you'd think everyone was idle, that's how slow it is.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-08-2009 13:45
Maybe it's me but I think SL is fine as it is from a social standpoint. I have an adequate number of friends and acquaintances and never have trouble getting into a conversation when I want. I am the opposite of most people I guess, in I enjoy the relative solitude I get in SL from exploring, shopping and what not, my RL if full of enough social contact. SL is a little quiet "Me" time in a lot of instances. I do think the group limit should be raised, I can't see any reason it isn't, unless it is some technical one.
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Conifer Dada
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Join date: 6 Oct 2006
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11-08-2009 13:45
From: someone Also, just to be sure: you know about using the Local frame of reference (instead of World) for building, right? It certainly doesn't solve everything, but is a necessity for building off-axis. Actually that's one thing I'd never discovered - but I have now - it's very useful. Thanks Que!
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Brenda Connolly
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11-08-2009 13:47
From: Ponsonby Low Or more likely, NOT get.
This inevitably segues into the "someone at the top at LL is secretly trying to kill SL" theories, because it does seem that LL is willfully ignoring genuine markets and courting markets that will get them nothing but bad word-of-mouth.
I'd guess that the majority of Facebook/Twitter fans who give SL a try will dislike it and find it dull and boring. And the bad word-of-mouth will be compounded by bad word-of-Facebook (and Twitter)---there the negative remarks about Sl will sit online forever, for millions to read.
Contrast this with the release of a recent CGI movie in which virtually ALL the marketing centered on How Cool The Immersive 3D Is!!!!! One 15-second SL ad, screened during the trailers for that movie, would have brought in many, many pairs of eyeballs for the corporate advertising LL would like to sell (and a nice jump in both concurrency numbers and paid Premium memberships, with all the attendant USD spending that implies.) Oh I agree. I think the suits at LL are horribly misguided in thinking this strategy is good for SL. It may not kill SL, but it will leave SL a huge mindless vegetative thing that would be better off dead.
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
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11-08-2009 13:52
From: Anya Ristow I found him alone, naturally, and conversation with him would be awesomer if I could get him to move. He seems to think barbecuing hamsters is a good strategy, and agreed that chocolate was the solution to many problems.
He's smarter than most avatars. I'm tellin' ya! Most definitely! I'm surprised he was alone....he is supposed to go after a crowd. The creator said that you could friend him, and send him a TP.
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Tegg Bode
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Join date: 12 Jan 2007
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11-08-2009 13:55
All SL needs is a scripting function for a FaceTwitter HUD so people can show over their heads in hovertext their RL names and how many groups they are in and how many people on their friends list and then everyone else can see who the lame people are to avoid them 
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Sling Trebuchet
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11-08-2009 14:01
Yeah! OR ----- How a bout a Rating system, in which residents can rate each other?? ----- That would be soooo kewl!! Oh! It's been done. .... and scrapped too. https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/04/12/removal-of-ratings-in-beta
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Ponsonby Low
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11-08-2009 14:03
From: Tegg Bode All SL needs is a scripting function for a HUD so people can show over their heads in hovertext their RL names and how many groups they are in and how many people on their friends list and then everyone else can see who the lame people are to avoid them  :laughing smiley [which we don't really have, and why not?]:
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Ponsonby Low
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11-08-2009 14:06
From: Brenda Connolly Oh I agree. I think the suits at LL are horribly misguided in thinking this strategy is good for SL. It may not kill SL, but it will leave SL a huge mindless vegetative thing that would be better off dead. Thus lowering the price of the whole company to some interested, just-waiting-for-the-deliberately-destructive-LL-decisions-to-drive-enough-paying-customers-away buyer... (Yes, I know that sounds all conspiracy-nutso. But if true, it would explain an awful lot.)
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Tegg Bode
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11-08-2009 14:06
From: Ponsonby Low :laughing smiley [which we don't really have, and why not?]: Well personally I wouldn't care if they added that because it's an optional feature for FaceTwitter HUD users 
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Ceka Cianci
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11-08-2009 14:08
I want pie throw..kina like anvil drop..it's safe and funny.. but pie throw everyone would have it and pie fights could break out at any moment.. this could save us from destruction. it would also help people to remember to put pie in their forum polls..there is just no losing with it.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-08-2009 14:09
From: Ponsonby Low Thus lowering the price of the whole company to some interested, just-waiting-for-the-deliberately-destructive-LL-decisions-to-drive-enough-paying-customers-away buyer... That would make LL the Blue Star Airlines of the day. "Why did you wreck this company, M?" "Because it's wreckable, that's why!"
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Ponsonby Low
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11-08-2009 14:35
From: Brenda Connolly That would make LL the Blue Star Airlines of the day.
"Why did you wreck this company, M?"
"Because it's wreckable, that's why!"  Greed is good! ...I hope it's not true, but sometimes a person can't help but wonder.
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War is over---if you want it. P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices! 
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Brenda Connolly
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11-08-2009 14:40
From: Ponsonby Low  Greed is good! ...I hope it's not true, but sometimes a person can't help but wonder. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027718/
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Ponsonby Low
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11-08-2009 14:48
I just glanced at the Cast and such--is the plot going to be the destruction of a virtual-world company? (Think of the cross-promotion possibilities!)
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War is over---if you want it. P Low Low P Studio SMALL PARCEL SOLUTIONS: Homes & shops of distinction, with low prim-counts, surprisingly low prices! 
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Imagin Illyar
Owner, Willowdale Estates
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11-08-2009 15:38
My label for those really connected people who are on both Facebook and Twitter: twitfaced I really have no use for social networking and people from my past are there for a reason 
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Brenda Connolly
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11-08-2009 15:42
From: Imagin Illyar My label for those really connected people who are on both Facebook and Twitter: twitfaced I really have no use for social networking and people from my past are there for a reason  I always say, if I haven't spoken to someone in 20 years, there is a reason.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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