Market for Open Water Sims

Ok, I’m trying to decide between expanding my estate to another private island, or, expanding to a group of open water sims. These open water sims come in a group of four, with less performance capabilities (hardly noticeable if one doesn’t over burden the sim with scripts and avatars), and less prims (1875 prims per ENTIRE sim).

I am trying to determine what the market would be for these less than common (seemingly) open-water (AKA void sims).

Would you rent one of these sims (the whole sim – the full 65K sq m - not parceled up), and if so, what would you be willing to pay per month?

I realize LL recommends not renting these out, but, I think it would be ok to rent out the entire sim, as opposed to slicing up and selling/renting...

I wouldn't want to rent one - for the same reason that I wouldn't want to rent any land from anyone, nothing personal you understand - but I would consider owning one. It's a pity that LL don't allow people to buy them individually as I think there would be quite a market for people who want some land to spread out on and terraform/landscape - but for various reasons can't afford a whole region (and let's face it, without some form of commercial activity, how many of us can?)

Broccoli

I know a few estate owners have got the open space sims and have rented them out. I think there is a market, but I'm not sure how big it is / how much demand there is.

I'd have bought one immediately if LL were selling them individually, but I understand the technical reason for having them in groups of four.

-Atashi

I'd be tempted to get some, but for use as communal space rather than for actually renting out. Plus, I've always wanted to build a really long, high bridge in sl, and these would be perfect for that

communal space would be ideal but I would have to rent the sims to support the tier... Actually, my idea would be to rent three, and keep one truly 'open', as long as the rental income on the three could even come close to paying for all four - i'd do it... hence why I posted this thread...

Make no mistake about it... I would LOVE to keep all four sims 'open space' - its just not financially feasible for me

Are you talking about full water sims? (Not sure if I read your post right =s)

If you are, then it really depends. I know myself that I for a while was renting a plot of land that was all water because I wanted to live on a house boat that I designed (not to toot my own horn or anything lol) If yo could find others that were interested in the same thing you shouldn't have any troubles.

I'd put a big fat warning label on doing this for a few reasons - that said, I rent out openspace regions myself.

Here's what's going on:

1) Huge difference between class 4 and class 5 openspace regions. Class 4 chokes easily. Class 5 can handle 100 avatars without stripping them down (yep, tried it, was a bit laggy but okay). Know what you got.

2) Usually estates add these once they have a number of other standard regions going - let me put it this way. Rent four, then lose one resident, and you've got substantial charges until all four are rented out again. Drop down to three - crazy unstable, financially. A coupla bad breaks and you'll be paying 295/mo flat out. Other standard regions (if profitable) lessen the blow.

3) Competition is fierce, fierce, fierce and typical rents are 'too low'. I know Anshe was giving incredible deals back in the day, so do others, and so do I. I took the long view and expect to break even on mine sometime in 2009 - it was an investment I was willing to make in order to make my Caledon micronation more fun and attractive.


So demand is pretty good, so long as you pretty much 'give away the farm' both in up-front fees and by keeping tier as crazy-low as cost/benefit analysis allows. I've subsidised *heavily* as I expect to be here long past 2009 - I think few others are willing to make that business gamble.

Failing that, you would have to:

- ask 1675 USD/4 to 'break even' on region costs up front
($L 418.75 or roughly $L 112,000)

- and charge 73.75 USD/mo + actuarial risk of regions unrented,
(roughly $L 19,500/mo + perhaps $L 5000/mo if new to it - call it $L 25k/mo)

- sequester significant tier reserves in case of financial disaster on the grid
(what, a market shakeup here? no waaay! grin - I personally keep 900 USD per four openspace regions on hand, or 3 months tier)

That would be around breakeven, covering a bit of bad luck, but as pretty as it might be that's a lot of $L for 1875 prims. Plus you get to deal with residents you may not want to deal with - overall it's a 'running in place getting nowhere' scenario.

Consider them on par with sandboxes for adding value to your estate, just a lot prettier and classier than a sandbox.

I'm currently on an estate (thank you Equi! ) that appears to have a successful system going. I purchased a 5000m2 parcel with a 8x prim bonus giving me in effect 1200 prims. They have done this on almost all of their open water sims and my tier payment of roughly $50 US a month helps defray the cost of the "open sim" and there's still plenty of water to play on all of these sims. It also leaves plenty of prims for underwater features, small getaway islands and other attractoins with STILL more left over for people to rez boats and things. I also get the feeling (illusion?!?...lol...) of "privacy" being "alone" on the sim.That might be an option for you.

Desmond - informative post. THANKS.

I'm willing to suck up the 1675usd start up cost, and worry about paying that off another day, with outside income, or future virtual income. Therefore, I don't need factor in the need to recoup any upfront payments. All I need is the sustainment tier-wise for 3 of these puppies on a fairly regular basis. If I could get the 25K lindens number you quoted below, for 3 each per month, I can do this. Think current market will provide me that customer base fairly easily and very regularily? No money down, 25K a month?

Bear that is the very first thing that came to mind! But LL support told me that these open space sims cannot "share" prims with other sims or with each other??? Am i understanding your post correctly?

Openspace regions don't 'share' prims with any other region - they are just like regular regions in that regard.



Tough call.

I know I sure could in a heartbeat - were I to spend 16750 USD and get 40 openspace regions I could fill 'em all. That's Caledon for you. But I'm not keen on spending 17,000 USD and tying up the extra 9000 USD of reserves! (ouch). I'm not rich enough in my first life to be able to try it either.

Question is - could you pull it off? I'd say it depends on how well known you are and how nice your estate is (do you allow banlines? have scary people living there?).

And I could be *very* wrong about your risk factor - once the blush goes off the rose, 'new' regions turn into 'old ones' in people's minds in less than a month.

However, think of it this way: "Hey anonymous strangers on the internet, I'm going to buy you four openspace regions for free and you can blow it off at any time and stick me with the 1675 USD of risk!" - yeah, you should be able to get residents to come to that party alright for $L 25k a month each!

Then watch them 'resell' your regions under your nose to other parties, quietly recovering your 1675 USD 'for' you. Seriously, charge *something* up front or you'll learn that lesson the way I did, the hard way.

Honestly, for 1675 USD, you could go here for a week or two:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorea (one of my favourite spots on the planet, and it will also fulfill your desire for open water nicely, just watch out the coral is sharp)

My bad. I meant share as in the object bonus feature - which obviously I have never used. I thought it was used between sims. To allow .5 prims on one sim, and 1.5 on another. I see now that I misunderstood.



As for well known - I'm no Desmond Shang, or i would'nt be asking this question. I'd be off selling open space sims right now for $400usd I do think my current estate is pretty nice - but doesn't everyone? No ban lines allowed btw



I wouldn't allow resale for these sims so that wouldn't be a problem.



LOL - thx for the pep talk

One of my problems on air and off - lack of clarity...lol.

As stated the "void" sims have 1875 prims total. Cutting a 5520m2 parcel out of it and upping the "Object Bonus" in the Region tools to 8.00 in effect gives that 5520m2 parcel 1256 prims leaving the remainder for "estate" or "public" use.

As Desomnd stated, and as far as I know, prims cannot be shared from sim to sim but are shared within that specific sim only.

If you'd like to see Equi and Dennis' estate "in action" so to speak, please IM me in world and I'll send you a landmark.

My own personal experience with voids has been positive. I've been to several live music events held on voids and in fact organized a large event where the venue was centred on 4 voids. At one point we had 30+ avi's on each sim (I've seen as many as 40 per sim at other events) with no more lag than you'd get at any club you might go to. For the reasons Desmond stated though I don't think it would be wise to have ongoing, heavily scripted events or clubs on these voids for extended periods.

Jake, check the Search/Land for Sale tab in-world. You'll see that low prim sims are going for as little as $L30,000 down and ridiculously low monthly rents. As Desmond says, competition is fierce.

Good call - didn't even think to check the search/land tab - THANKS.

Just to chime in, thanks for all this great info--good question, good thread. I'm following the same sort of path myself: I've got one island sim, and plan to aid a four-pack of voids in two months or so. This will allow me to build up cash reserves and some front-end investment money.

The goal is to have a micor-continent, anchored at each end with a full island sim and four voids for flying/sailing/hiking/etc in between them.

IM me in world if you like, and we can exchange some notes on strategic business plans.

Good luck!

Buying a set of Openspaces sims will help you build up cash reserves?

I'm not sure you've been reading the same thread I have.

Hmmm...I thought the gist of this thread was:

1. Buy a sim. Rent it out at cost plus the percentage you deem neccesary to recoup your initial investment while paying monthly tier. Determine this percentage by deciding how long you want to pay off the initial fee balanced against what the market will bear for rental fees.

2. Amortize your initial investment in X months (X could equal four or six or whatever. Four is probably the minimum in today's market).

3. Now your initial investment (US$1675) is paid off, and you still have a that cost plus percentage coming in. Save it.

4. Wait the same amount of time it took you to amorize the original start-up costs (4-6 months).

5. Buy your next sim or your four-pack of openspace sims.

6. Repeat.

7. As Desmond says, keep a reserve of cash--hopefully generated from revenues, but can be in RL--to get you through times when you have to carry the cost. A minimum of three months worth is the rule of thumb in RL, and Desmond mentions that this is what he does in SL.

8. This process can be accelerated by forming an investment group or limited partnership with one or more others. This is a bit more complicated, however, and may not be as fun.

Any questions? Did I miss anything?

BTW--for those of you who IM'd me in world, sorry I misse your message although I saw it. Been terribly busy both in SL and RL lately. Let's try to get together on this--I'll send ya'll some IMs and maybe we can meet.

Thanks!

My own focus in SL is Mainland Realty, but I do have some knowledge of private sims. However, I have not figured out in over a year of being in world, what the advantage is to these open water sims. Are they cheaper? Do they allow you get more use out of your full sim? Can someone please explain to me, why you just don't buy another full sim, then sink it -100 under water?

Thanks!

sorry i'm lazy and didn't read through the whole thread

my 2L

the sim where i rent land is group owned and we are opening up 4 void sims shortly for people who like to fly/boat/submerge, there going to be rented out and i'm going to get one for around 70US/month (from memory). i'll be turning the land into something thats group useable, something along the lines of an island connected to the mainland sim we have now that can be used for boat mooring/parties and surfing (gotta have surfing) i can't remember the full prim limit (i think just over 1100) but we are going to limit the renters to 1000P so people can still fly/boat with ease

*lol* looking through the thread i notice the owner of the group has posted, g'day Klang

-Crunch

Actually, Open Water sims is a bit of a misnomer. These are packs of 4 sims, wich cost the same as 1 regular sim both for initial cost and monthly fee. However, they only support 1875 prims each. They also can't exist by themselves, they need to be "anchored" to regular sim.

A lot of people use them to provide water around their main sim(s), hence the name - although you're right, these are terraformable in exactly the same way as a regular sim, so can be all water, all land, or a bit of both.

thanks steve (ie how many prims a void sim supports)

I would definitely rent an openspaces sim, providing the monthly rent is not horrendous and I was free to use the land/sim in any way I liked.

Please contact me in-world if you want to discuss your terms (this goes for anyone renting out openspaces).

Most of the information regarding OpenSims in this thread is outdated see blog here:

http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/07/announcing-changes-to-the-openspace-product/#more-1712

i.e.

"So what is changing?

Openspaces will no longer have to be purchased in sets of four at a time, as they have been so far. They can be bought singly, for a setup fee of USD$415 followed by a fee of USD$75 per month.

All other island services are therefore available for single Openspace regions, at the usual region rates, and Openspaces will no longer have to be placed together on the grid, they can be placed apart.

To purchase an Openspace region you will still need to own a normal island already, however you will not have to anchor your Openspace to that region, it can be placed wherever you would normally be able to place an island.

Finally, we are going to increase the prim count for Openspaces. They will become exactly a quarter of the normal 15000 prim limit for a region, so they will be set at 3750 (to date they have been limited to 1875 prims)."

wtf is it with these increasing number of necro`s?