Ever dealt w/ SL friend's sucidal profile?

I hate to say it, but just as depression can run in families, so can suicide (which is obviously connected.) Out of seven children in my father's family, 2 have committed suicide. Both were very depressed, and neither "cried out" for help. I attempted it once 15 years ago. I "cried out" for help, and I'm so glad that I did. Spending a night in the hospital getting your stomach pumped is no picnic, but at least I'm here to type this.

"Emo" or not (why did I instantly think of that red thing from Sesame Street?) anything like this should be treated seriously. Espcially if her boyfriend just died, she might be more inclined to "follow" him. She needs friends who won't say "I can't deal with your negativity." You might want to bang your head against the desk watching her talk, but if she can just TALK, it might help.

Sorry to hear about suicide in your family and the ordeal you went through Oryx. Hearing about suicide in families makes me think of this very recent news story right now:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1284745,00.html

It was feared the girl had been abducted for a while, but then her body turned up on a railway line. Then her mother killed herself on the same stretch about a month later. I believe the mother's grandfather also committed suicide a few decades ago.

Regarding the OP's situation, if the situation does appear serious, I think you have no alternative but to call 911 or perhaps a suicide crisis helpline. If that seems too heavy, what about informing Linden Lab? At least you would have taken _some_ action. You might even be legally obligated to do contact the authorities (I think that's true where I live). It might feel like you're betraying your friend, but you might be saving her life, and she'll maybe thank you for that in the end.

FD, you are a really good person to have posted here for advice and then talked to her. If you continue making it clear that you are there for her, you will have done what a good human being should do.

It sounds like your friend has reason enough to be depressed right now ... when that has been the case with me, it has always helped to be told that there is an immediate cause, and that if I can hang on, the cause will fade.

If I were in your shoes I'd be trying to get her to reach out to people who are in her RL, and try to get her to find some professional help. It is a lot easier to assess a person's condition when they are physically in front of you. But like the posters above I think that if you are not already in her RL it would not be good to enter it in this way -- she (and you) might think that your role then was "savior" ... and ultimately we must all save ourselves.

Calling 911 is very much a judgement call for each individual situation, and a very difficult one. Unless the situation becomes desperate, I would not notify Linden Labs - that is a huge violation of her confidentiality, and exposes her to the possibly rash judgement of a lot of strangers who are sitting at their desks pushing bits all day. If she is not actually actively suicidal, it would have the effect of driving her out of SL ... and she may need that support in her depression.

Good luck FD. My virtual arms are around you ... and her. *hugs*

I tell them to remember to cut down the road not across it.

re: " You should ask her if she actually feels like killing herself"

i love that advice

i think too many people avoid asking that question directly because they are uncomfortable, but gee it needs to be out in the open and not hidden if someone is feeling that way

We had a relative newbie guy cruise Celestia last year, said he was of college age, a football player with a career ending injury and was feeling suicidal.

Although a little skeptical and thinking it was a ploy to attract female attention, we couldn't take the chance, we all gathered around and talked quietly with him.

I'm still a little skeptical about him, but, I'm glad I pitched in and tried to help, and would do it again....

That's just sick

I have *very* often felt suicidal due to severe mental illness & have at times asked 'friends' for help. What made me worse is these people were supposed to be friends & care, but when I really needed them they just ignored everything. I think sometimes someone just taking the time to be there & listen can really help. I still find everyday difficult though don't have these feelings right now, and I still need people, but i've finally broken away from these so called friends cause them not caring enough to even try to help was too much for me. Going on how I am, I can't bear for anyone to be in pain & try to help.

I've been told endless times to get a 'real' life, not to use sl, but seeing as the mental health system is a mess here & I don't have rl friends sl keeps me going. From my pow just listen, be there, show you care if you do, but please please don't ignore it, for me after directly asking 'friends' for help & being ignored the consequences were terrible. Do try to get them help irl, and like everyone says if it does go wrong don't blame yourself, the only blame is if you ignored her. You seem like a VERY good friend to me!

I keep reading here that some think in certain circumstances that you shouldn't take it seriously. I also keep reading that you just need to be there and be a friend and listen.

The first advice is just plain wrong. Any threat of suicide needs to be taken seriously.

The second is true, but is not enough. I suffer from severe depression. It is heredity and runs in my family. I have more friends than I can count. All very loving and very dear to me. When my depression gets severe enough those friends don't matter. It's very easy for my depression to convince me that they'd all be better without me, or that they'll understand, or a host of other excuses. Some of the top doctors in the field have worked with me and made me understand that my brain just doesn't function properly, just like if my kidneys weren't functioning, therefore having good friends is wonderful but not enough.

Her situation sounds different, at least in the short information given. Hers sounds more situational because her boyfriend died. It should be taken just as seriously. Be a friend, lend an ear, listen rather than try and solve her problems (sometimes that's hard for guys to do), but also try to steer her in a direction that helps. I still suggest supportforhealing as an option. They have several depression groups in world every week and also have suicide prevention action steps.

I got into virtual worlds and digital art, content creation over ten years ago because I was very ill physically and depressed about feeling like a failure in my professional and personal life.
I was in beta in SL as Dagon Grimm in 2003 but I was so ill and friendless I took a 3 year break.
I only returned after going through very difficult period and being near death myself due to
health,etc.
I had asked myself what I would miss if I couldn't continue or cease to exist.
I would miss creating.
So I promised myself that was what I was going to do until I couldn't do it anymore.
I returned back to SL as FD Spark been learning and creating ever since.
So I definitely can understand where my friend is coming from but right now due to recent break up, ill health and being depressed I don't know if I came off sounding very supportive.
Truthfully I have limited patience to certain things she often discusses and I try to be supportive.
Last time we talked I told her I am really sick right now and long term relationship just ended because I couldn't deal with his constant negativity and criticism. Heck the x-boyfriend even one ups me when I tell him I am sick and I need to sleep.
I understand where she coming from with the losses of a partner, health and family issues, feeling like a failure but I am here often to create and escape from this, try as I might to limit that type of negative self talk even with myself.
She got defensive said something about people not wanting to deal with real things, if I didn't want to be her friend she understand.
Maybe she was be emo, heck I can be quite emo but try to limit that to short periods and try not to burden my SL friends all time with the horrors of my real life but sometimes it does ooze out.
Just brought this up because some of us out here we just live our residency as if it was our lives and it not about roleplaying yet sometimes we do go to rpg sims.
Anyway sometimes things come up and personally I sometimes have no clue what would been best way handle it.
I think this situation I goofed.
Some situations for me is like trying to program really complex machine and I like hearing what others think if they were in same situation.
If I see her today I apologize for sounding like self-centered jerky guy. I think I came off sounding that way.
Anyway thanks for the feed back. I try to encourage her to reach out to some real life people even if its her Doctor. I do get its hard sometimes to find first life people when you're in difficult situation, depressed, perhaps that is what is going on with her.
Thanks,
FD

In general, people who Right out, Threaten suicide are usually doing so for the attention, and Rarely if ever make an actual Attempt.
The ones to worry about are the ones who Discuss it in veiled terms, Small Hints, Subtle ways of saying Goodbye, They are, without asking, Lookiing at their life, hoping for some Life affirming word from friends or family, Sizing up Probable Impact. Those people are at great Risk. The most dangerous time is when All such talk ceases entirely, That is the Point when the Final decision has been made. If you have Concerns TALK to your friend. Let them know how Important they are to you, and that there ARE Solutions for any problem they may be going through. If it's just idlae talk on their part that has Unfortunate undertones, there is No harm done by letting them know they are cared for. If, on the other hand they Are contemplating something Serious, the simple act of bringing it Into the Open may be all they need to Dissuade them.
The one thing you don't want to do as a caring friend is sit By assuring yourself it is Nothing, and discover later you were wrong.

I Know this from Life Experience.

Angel.

The way I see it, you have nothing to lose by taking it seriously, but potentially a lot to lose by not. There are licensed professionals working in SL. I'd ask for credentials, if possible. But that might be an option?

Please don't rag on yourself though. It's hard when you're fatigued, by your own illness or depression, to deal with emotionally needy people. I've been there, too. The risk is one of getting drained in such a way that your own physical or mental well being is negatively impacted. For example, if I find myself back in the "cancer fatigue" mode, I am not the right person to talk to a person who is in a bind and trying to get support for staying in that bind. It's too exhausting to deal with the conflict that creates.

If you can help your friend get help that's great... but if you can't be the main source of support all the time, and you help her find a resource for support, you've done all you could. If she insists on getting her support from you when good sources of support are available to her, you're justified in setting limits to protect your well-being.

Having said that, I understand the desire to help, and I generally go further than I should helping, out of gratitude to those who helped me through a rough time. But please don't feel guilty for taking care of yourself too.

It all depends on context, really.

For example, we have a seasonal release of limited-edition Dragon avatars on the Isle of Wyrms. SEVERAL releases now, we have had people threaten to commit suicide (or something similar) if they didn't get one of these avs. I ALWAYS treat these people as using excessively poor tact to "get their way". Most of the time, they are kids (or tantrum-throwing adults). Talk about some real screwed-up perspective there...

The point is, WHY are they saying these things? Making a cry for help for themselves, it *might* actually be the Real Deal and needs to be taken seriously, but if it is someone just looking to snow you or make you give in to their demands, especially horribly petty or stupid ones, then it is (REALLY) BS.

Do you know how bad you`re going to feel if the person in question ends up taking their life?

Some people... *Shakes his head*




Yes that`s true. there are indeed people putting on a show. But there is no real way to know, some people are infact serious.

There was this guy I went to school with, his gf broke up with him and he threatened to kill himself (Why do people do this over break ups? I don`t know)...Anyway... No one believed it, and understandably. But about a week later... News all over the school was "Did you hear? He killed himself"

Yeah I want to help but sometimes I realize I just can't.
I sort of lecturing her and finally I told her I don't have energy for this just taking shower and brushing my teeth makes me incredibly fatigue and in pain now.
My friend I share a sim with leave xytext reminders of stuff I go to do just so I don't forget cause I am so tired and has to remind me to not stay on 12 hours a day building. LOL
I have had people help and feel I should do more but truthfully I just can't.
When I am in SL I don't want to be her therapist but heck I don't want to be mean.
She seems to be doing better now which is good. But I felt like jerk for not being able to listen,etc. I did apologize her earlier. She seemed more cheerful today.
I did ask her if she heard of supportofhealing's depression support group.
My other friend told me to take care of myself first or I just resent helping her at all.
I don't want to be helping people at the expense of my own health any more, been there done that. Just made me cranky and sicker. Yet sometimes I forget.

There is no way to, know sadly - fake internets suicide is another legend of online life.

Maybe best to treat anyone talking about suicide seriously and with compasion. If they are seaking attention or just playing games, well thats a shame but its worth just in case that isnt it.

Still people would be wise perhaps not getting wrapped up in the sad emotions - Instead urge them to seek professional help. Even a professional councilor isnt going to get much accomplished via a 3d Internet chat.

Even Suicide hot-lines are an emergency thing - and they urge callers to seek medical help.

I pretty much agree with Colette.

I have a hard time believing things moreso online, but what if its real ya know?


And FD, definitely take care of yourself, do what you can ..... only what you can; within your limits and to keep a sane mind.

If this person really is suicidal, hopefully she has alerted RL people.

Something very similar happened at my highschool when I first entered. It happened on PROM night. Let's just say, proms weren't the same for students at my school anymore.

I battle alot of depression, and just the push to go get help could be enough to save her life if she's THAT depressed.

It's disturbing to learn that someone is suffering enough to be considering ending their life. Even if they seemed to be enjoying the drama and attention they were getting for saying so I would try to be supportive and compassionate.
But I wouldn't feel that it was up to me to save their life. Even if I were a mental health professional and they were a patient in my office I would only be able to do what I could do. A friend or friendly acquaintance can't be expected to sacrifice their own peace of mind trying to save someone else's.

When someone in SL lets us know that they are in danger of harming themselves perhaps we should notify the Lindens so they can notify someone in the person's real life?

This part is very good advice, but:


In other words, it has no statistical validity. Even if it did, it's dangerous to draw conclusions in this case from comparisons that aren't quantified.

I'm not sure which part of your note actually derives from your experience, perhaps all of it does. But think about what you said about no harm being done if you're wrong. That's true whether the other person falls into the first group ("right out threaten" or the second ("veiled terms". You should respond similarly in either case. They're both at risk, it doesn't really matter which group has the higher risk.

Again, this is wrong. And I'm restraining myself from using stronger language.

It's never a waste of time, at all. It might be the one in a thousand, or in ten thousand, or whatever the number is for whom it's serious. Given that people are willing to drop an hour's worth of wages on a lottery ticket that has a one in ten million chance of winning, spending an hour's worth of time with a chance of saving a life is surely a much better, worthwhile investment.

But suppose you're actually dealing with someone for whom it's totally cultural, with no actual depression or suicidal thoughts. What if you do spend some time acting like a friend? You'll get to learn a bit more about another person, a bit more about that culture. They may learn more about you. You might even get a new friend out of it.

Doesn't seem like a waste of time to me in the slightest. It's actually pretty productive.

Mostly, when I ask someone for help it's because yes, I *feel* suicidal but I know I won't do it, but that feeling & any hallucinations or anything with it scares me, so I need someone online to talk to me, not necessarily about that, can be about anything, I just need to feel connected to a person as such, to something real & to know what i'm thinking or seeing right then will be ok. I say i'm feeling suicidal but also that I won't do anything silly & just need to talk, it really helps to have someone just let me know they're here

Then i Shall Clarify. What i relate IS from Reading of The Psychology behind Suicides, And I have had Practicle personal exposure to those "Statistical Models" In my RL.
What i said about "No Harm Done" Was in regards to Confronting someone one suspects of harboring a desire to harm themselves. Talk to them. If you are wrong, and they have No such Intention, Your Concern would be appreciated. If, on the other hand, you have Interpreted the Signals Correctly, then Your words to that person MAY be the very lifeline they are Needing to Banish those thoughts. As a Friend you can help them Seek Qualified help, and guidance.

A.

As a person who suffers from severe depression I can relate. I find it very frustrating that I can't support others in the same manner that I receive support. I have to remind myself that I have to focus on myself sometimes or I'm going to be of no use to anyone.

You were considerate enough to post in the forums. You gave her some options for her to choose from. Sounds to me like you've been an excellent friend and you can take a break.