One Person With A Plan To Help

As usual, except when she is talking about Tail Gunner Joe, Colette is right.

LOL I might always be wrong except about Tailgunner Joe .

Colette is exactly right.

I suppose it is understandable that some people thought that SL was a kind of make believe playground with adults standing by to make everyone play nicely and make it up to anyone who had a bad experience. But It was never advertised as a "utopia" where no disappointment would fail to be fixed.

In fact it is advertised as a platform form for real life adults to see what they can do. The economy is quite real. The effect of pouring in extra lindens would be the same as the effect of printing extra money has been throughout history. The value of the money simply goes down and prices go up. Everyone suffers.

In real life people often suffer this same kind of disappointment. The only real business in the world today is the business of acquiring money. The reward for having extra and the punishment for not having enough can both be extreme. Money is changing hands all the time. The business activities in SL are a part of it.

I'd say everyone who lost money in this situation has a chance to learn a valuable (and relatively cheap) lesson which will serve them well for the rest of their lives.

Funny. You actually believe this? Call the reimbursement a stipend then if you like. It would have no real effect on anyone but the players who got their Lindens back---except for the trouble LL would have to go through to deal with determining who lost money



They will have no choice to redesign anyway---for many reasons.




The whole thing needs a reality check. This is a game and currently a very gamed game.

Lindens are fictional. The serious loss is very real. Ginko was a shell game that LL knew was operating under their auspices and tacit approval and they got their cut.

Funny, if the economy of SL isn't "real", then perhaps you should just kiss goodbye the Lindens you were foolish enough to "invest" in Ginko.

If you think that the money is, indeed, real, then acknowledge that the rest of us might be impacted if Linden Lab were to bend every precedent to make it up to you.

I, for one, have a great deal of sympathy for those who are impacted by genuine disasters - floods, hurricanes, and earthquakes, to name a few. I have much less sympathy for those who are impacted by "disasters" fomented by their own greed, especially when others were pointing to the horizon and screaming "OH MY FUCKING GOD IT'S A TIDAL WAVE GET OUT OF THE WATER!"

Lindens are real.
I pay real US$ to do business in SL.
Every week I get a L$300 rebate from LL which I can sell for US$
I can also buy L$ with US$
People in SL pay me L$ for various products and services. I sell these L$ for $US which I use to buy rl goods and services.

People who sign variable rate mortgage agreements even though they will not be able to afford to make the payments if the payments do get higher are perhaps victims of unrealistic sales pitches. They are certainly victims of their own wishful thinking. I feel very sorry for them when they lose their homes. But most of them have little legal recourse. And bailing them out will be costly to all of us.

I feel sorry for the wishful thinkers who gave SL money to someone who turned out not to give it back. But the problem is that they were using wishful thinking if they risked more money in this way than they could afford.

People who can't learn this lesson are going to be perpetual suckers.

Everybody knew Ginko was a scam yet some people dumped money in anyway.

Make stupid investments = lose money. Blaming LL for that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Better the laissez faire treatment we get from LL than the bail outs, inflation, and general mismanagement we have had for the last 90+ years in the real world. Pouring money into the economy, only leads to inflation and bubbles. We are reaping the wirlwind in the US now because of these failed policies.

Why do you believe this won't affect the exchange rate, and therefore affect everyone?


No, it's not a game. Perceiving it as a game is at the root of many misconceptions.

In some ways SL is more like eBay than WOW.

Who is trying to have things both ways now?

You want to make the Lindens valueless except on a black market - yet you are calling Ginko losses very real.

Do you have any concept how much money it would cost Residents if LL shut down the LindenX and officially forbade conversion of L$ to USD?

It would make the Ginko losses look like lunch money.

QFT and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would go back to a free account or be gone.

Just look what people were screaming about when the fed bailed out the corporate banks..Who is gonna pay for this?
who else??the tax payers..Why the tax payers? because there is nothing they can do but bitch about it..
The fed is only a loaning institution with interest tied to every dollar that it prints for the U.S..Them bailing out private businesses like they did only added to the U.S debt which in turn will now raise my taxes..

They print money for the government to pay back the money to themselves that the government owes them and the interest that it gains on the U.S debt every day..So they are in a win win situation unless the dollar moves above it's worth and the interest that is tied to each dollar.
The paper itself i nothing but paper with some neat art on it..What the paper represents is where the worth lies..The reality..

The linden works exactly the same way by actually using the same valued item that our U.S dollar does but at a different rate of exchange..There is nothing fictional about the worth of a linden Just the linden itself. I have never actually seen a linden to say the truth but i have seen how many i have lol and know for a fact there is value there in that amount..i have actual bank statements with my transactions when i invest in them.

Now if LL goes and bails out this Ginko guy by paying his bad debt..Who will pay?
They would be paying back a debt which is not theirs..If i were someone that were screwed over in the past and lost a great deal of money??In my eyes i would see favorites being played ..Lindens would be opening lawsuits for past cases and future cases as well..
I am not saying they would win or lose but would have them none the less..

Why?because of admission by paying it back in turn breaking their own rule..We don't get involved in personal disputes which this is..
It puts them in a whole other area than where they are now..

Now with it coming out of their pockets because of another player you can bet it will be put on the economy to pay it back in one way or another until the money and interest of that money they are losing is paid back to them..they are not dumb businessmen..

Also if the loss is real the thing that was lost has to be real as well..so there is value tied to the linden..Just as there is to the things we buy in the real world or in here..It's not the actual element you hold in your hand..It is it's value that makes it real just as any economy is ran..Put a dent in it and someone fixes it one way or another..You can bet this Ginko thing already had it's impact on it because of the loss those people took..

LL made the grid.

The players make the content and products and things we do here to establish the economy not lindens..
all the lindens did was give us the freedom to do so..We can't point at them when we are to blame..

It was a free act to invest in this Ginko thing by those people ..just as it is for the things we all invest in..Anything you invest in research it..look it over and compare..only fools rush in..
Just as the old saying goes..If it sounds too good to be true more times than not it is..
A wise investor is someone that looks at it as their job to make their money grow.They protect it and make certain the odds are more than likely in their favor .
a gambler plays the long shot with the lottery mindset and most times gets either sold on a pipe dream or conned by people like this Ginko person..

it's a shame but also at the same time a very valuable lesson and one i am sure they will never make again..so experience is gained for most of them..
we all have had things nip us in the butts from time to time..you can lay down and say help me i am a victim or you can buck up and take responsibility for your mistake and come back stronger the next time around with a little wiser approach *winks*

thats my 2 lindens worth hehehe..
that and two dollars nope make that 5 dollars now taking into account the shot the rl dollar is taking might get you a cup of coffee

Enabling the imprudent to the foolish by erasing the bad and largely predictable consequences for their behavior is not a good idea. It only encourages further similar irresponsible and reckless behavior on their part and encourages others to do the same. Not all lessons in life can be taught to all people with the carrot. Some lessons in life for some people need to be taught with the stick.

Rebecca you talk about Linden Lab taking responsibility for what happened, but what ever happened to personal responsibility and accountability for one's decisions? And if Linden Lab is going to treat such persons like children or people who basically lack the capacity to be responsible for their own actions then shouldn't they make it equal across the board, i.e. limit the type of $L transactions and the size of the L$ transactions that they make accross the board without specific approval by Linden Lab or perhaps an outright prohibition on certain kinds of transactions, i.e. flagging their account's ability to do so? There was an interesting article in the New York Times a few months ago where a likable retired man was scammed out of his money and then some by a young woman and incurred lots of debt he could not payoff as a result and he wanted to make the argument that he should not be held accountable for said debt because he was old and wasn't as sharp as he used to be but at the same time he did not want to have his ability to mind his affairs abridged in any way. Is that the kind of system you are advocating?

I had aboiut 2 dollars in Ginko, onlyto see how it worked. I knew it had to not only be illegal, but a scam the moment I saw it.

A TOS that contradicts itself cannot hold up under scrutiny.

Thats too.

But I think that is is still their responsibility and a TOS that contradicts itself as it does, would not hold up if there was actualy any serious effort to challenge their ultimate responsibility in the Ginko scheme.

No matter how many times people try to tell me that this is s case of personal responsibility and that LL is not responsible and no matter how matter times people say the Linden$ is real--even though the TOS says it's not, I can only wonder if people have drank the kool-aid and have lost touch with reality.

The only reason IMO that LL has gotten away with not reimbursing these losses is that there was/has been no real organized effort to challenge it.

What I think will eventually happen, is that LL will eventually be, in essense, forced to do away with the Linden Exchange to avoid legal repercussions and government pressure.

If I own a big parcel of real life land and say I am not responsible for what tenents who pay me do, and some tenant do all kinds of dangerous and illegal things, right under my nose, that I am clearly aware of, then if someone is hurt, then I am responsible, for tacitly approving of what is obviously illegal actions, I could have prevented by teminating those tenenats and reporting them to the authorities. First of all I am gaining financially from those illegal activities, by virtue of the fact that I am being paid by the Meth labs, or whatever which I am fully aware ar being run on my property. The TOS makes it clear this is LL's property.

To add to this Meth lab on my land analogy, lets say that I advertise other nearby parcels as some sort of wonderful utopian village and innocents also pay me and the meth lab claims they have a health club and they are dispensing meth to people telling them it is vitamins and I have observed this myself......but I take no action an just continue to collect my money.

I just think it is that simple. And to have a TOS that says the L$ is fictional and will not be exchanged and then a few paragraphs later, how there is an exchange.....sorry but that is just nonsense and holds no water whatsoever.

Apples and oranges.

LL does not sell or buy Lindens. They do however run an exchange where you can buy or sell Lindens to or from other players.

LL has no legal nor moral responsibilty to protect you from your own stupidity.

LL owns the exchange, makes money on the exchange, promotes the exchange, advertises it on their website including "market data" Is it licensed with the various agencies and board? --no because its just "fictional"

heres some more Koolaid. Drink up.

LL "sells" everybody the chips. You lose the game yourself.

Except, of course, it's not gambling; it's virtual economic activity, ultimately funded by those funny green pieces of paper in your RL wallet or purse.

If LL had actually supported or worked with Ginko or the other "banks" in any way, it would have a moral responsibility for what happened, and a mass exodus if they had not acted on it. But they didn't support Ginko, so there was no such responsibility. If you entrust your money to a total stranger, in a place where anyone can get in and you are told at the outset you are on your own, and whose identity you do not know because it is concealed behind an avatar, and you take back no more collateral than his promise to pay a startlingly high rate of interest, what do you think is going to happen?

That's what did happen.

Sorry if you got stung. It happens.

Would anyone like a brick wall?

Rebecca, do you also think that LL should pay everyone for all the money they ever lost on casino gambling in SL? Should they make up the losses of everyone who ever invested money in any kind of failed business venture in SL?

If you buy something on eBay that turns out not to be as advertised do you expect the eBay company to pay you back out of their pocket?

But none of this changes the simple, mathematical fact that if LL were to bail out things like Ginko and WSE, the *value* of that buyout would be coming out of the pockets of LL's customers.

just like warning labels on coffee cups and tooth paste..they are all designed to make sure that the maker of the product makes it clear of their intention and purpose..that if people use them in some evil or dishonest way or that they are used in a manor they are not intended that the maker of the product is not responsible for it's unintended use..they would be fools not to cover thier own butts when you have a forum this close to rl way of life lol

secondlife is a buissness and if people think it is otherwise then they are wrong..Why are they evil for making something that everyone can make a little money online?
because some people were fooled by a conman?


after reading the tos it looks like any other contract i would sign.. the problem is most don't read it until after disaster has hit them..

the linden or liquid asset itself is fictional yes mainly because nobody here can explain to me in detail what a linden dollar looks like..why?? because it is just a name of a currency..this in itself proves that the only value of a linden dollar is the value the players put on it..if it was set by the lindens then you would have no fluxing of the market..

to me it is pretty cut and dry right here in this part of the tos that we are responsible for our own actions..


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