Temp rezzers revisited

Hi Kidd.

The 'lag' part of the discussion was because someone said that temp rezzers cause lag. It was a side discussion due to someone simply wanting to have a poke. It happens with some topics - there are a few people can't help but have a poke, regardless of whether or not it's helpful to the topic. Fortunately, there aren't many of them, and it wasn't altogether unexpected in this thread.

Everything contributes to any lag that exists, but it isn't actually lag until something is slowed - lagged. But defining what lag is, isn't the topic here.

As I undertand it, scripts in a sim are given a minimum amount of time in a time period - I think they call the time period, a quantum. If they need more time than the minimum, and there isn't any spare time for them to use, e.g. when the sim is working hard, they will be affected. With rezzers it could be the smooth running of the script that affected, or it could be the rezzing of the objects that's affected at heavy times, or both.

I don't think I'm going to get to the bottom of it in this thread, but 2 main possibilites have emerged, and one new (to me) thing - whether or not the temp prims allowance for same owner parcels can all be used on one parcel. I'll test that because it's interesting.

Alright, then, since you want exact wording, Phil, let me state this in another mannor other than using the word "lag".

Temporary prims were designed to be temporary. This is fact. If you doubt that fact you can research the Wiki, or even talk to Lindens about it, but I hope, in this at least, we can agree.

TempPrims were not meant to be rezzed continually. Yes, they ~can~ be, as LSL is an open system and LL ~has~ put in place rules and guidelines to deal with them since so many started doing it. Though the practice continues (in moderation), this does not mean it was meant to be this way. So the entire system was never designed to handle the load of re-rezzing temp prims on a continual basis.

For while the system can indeed re-rez temp prims continually, the ability of the system is limited. The Linden guidelines on the Wiki of how many temp prims per parcel suppport is just that...a "guideline". It's like the redline on the tacometer in your car. You ~can~ reach that point, but failure along the way is usually quite lower.

Temp rezzers used continually, and/or en mass, are not so much "adversely effecting" a sim as they are "unessicarily effecting" system resources.

And no, temp rezzers are not the only item that does this. You were quite right to mention some of the hairs of old that could bring a sim to it's knees. Or avatar scanners that scan too often. Or half a dozen other things. So, it's not a "Let's pick on temp rezzers" so much as it is a call for commone sense to be used to use items that use a huge amount of system resources responsibly. Personally, I feel search-bots are worse. Searching the database a few hundred times a second is retarded, and causes horrible networking load. *cue the bot user cries of outrage*.

If you really want to know the impact of your temp-rezzers on the sim you live/work in, then submit a Support Ticket, or Live Chat, to set up an appointment with a tech Linden to come out and review your area, and look for the highest resource using items. In effect, politely "AR" yourself to see if it is a problem or not. Either the Linden will say it's okay, or they will ask you to remove them. As of right now, they are not saying anything because they simply do not know they exist.

However, using 24 temp-rezzers and saying "I don't feel/see lag, so they must be okay." is a narrowminded, selfish viewpoint. Not only for your neighbors, but for your customers. Not only in the use of prims (which no matter how you claim it are not yours to use past the defined parcel limits), but also in the system resources being taxed.

I'm sure you can disect my post and come up with "reasons" to ignore what I've said. I've watched many on the forums do this. I've come to think of these people as "forum lawyers" because they will look for any loophole in the direct wording of what was said instead of the intent of the spirit of the meaning, and I've watched you do this to many posts. Mine included. So now the choice is yours to come up with more excuses, or listen to common sense.

~Jessy

I've no wish to disect your post, Jessica, as it doesn't address the thread's topic. I've no desire to discuss the pros and cons of temp rezzers in this thread, even though a couple of people seem to be keen on having a pop at them just on principle. I've also no desire to define the word 'lag'. My definition is good enough for me - if things are slowed down, there is lag. If things are not slowed down, there is no lag.

Also, I have no interest in the orginal intentions of anything. Original intentions are frequently changed over time, so looking back at them isn't useful. On that particular point, I do remember seeing where LL stated that people were even using things in ways that were neither intended nor envisaged, and it was a positive statement, not a negative one.

There were some good posts in the early part of this thread - they addressed the question very well - but it seems to have deteriorated since a couple of silly people came into it just to have a pop at something they personally don't like. One even implied that he knows best because he's been around longer than me LOL. Still, it's par for the course in some forums.

ok give me a slurl then.

I'm more concerned for the renters who must suffer temp-rez furniture that is no longer there.

Sorry Phil, you are an intelligent man, but you should move your store elsewhere, or actually use (shock!) prims, if it is affecting your residents detrimentally, instead of looking for another no-prim solution.

I'd give you a day, then leave. Not that I'm dumb enough to deal with a temp-rez rental guy in the first place...

Oh, I've been dealing with it since the problems started. I'm not trying to find the cause before dealing with it. I'm trying to find the cause because it's interesting. So don't be concerned for my tenants. They are not suffering anything. As a matter of fact, I've been allowing the rental business to fade away for quite some time now, because the store is so much more profitable, and a lot less work. I told all the tenants that I'm doing that, and that I won't ask any of them to leave, and some of them prefer to stay. I'm down to 18 now, from 60, but I've been at 18 for a little while, and it looks like the rentals will continue for some time yet.

Nobody is on the wrong end of the temp rezzers. It's just that I wanted to understand the cause of the recent problems.

Good grief. You really can't read, can you?

U R full of BS Phil...

Treat your customers correctly !

this is the same as camping zombies don't cause lag, right?

Basically anything that doesn't cause lag that Phil notices, doesn't cause lag.

reality has nothing to do with it.

There are some really stupid people in this forum, who talk a load of utter crap. It means that questions about certain topics can't be asked here because they have no interest in offering anything useful or contructive. Instead they sidetrack threads with shit like that.

That's also a response to Colette's post.

I'll follow Jig out of this place. Bye.

So far, I seem to be doing pretty good. I'm not the one on the defensive.



Apparently, you are no stranger to obtuseness yourself, since I never SAID that you were selling one, either.



Yes, naturally, I would expect you to use someone else's temp rezzers in your own store.



Not helping, just humoring me, pal.



Never said you couldn't, but the FACT of the matter is that my experience IS longer-lived than yours, through MORE sim and viewer versions, and the PROBLEM we experience is consistent not only in the Cathedral sim, but also with my experiences in testing rezzers in sandboxes AND on the beta grid. I only point out the Cathedral situation because I have direct first-hand evidence that I can SHOW you, since everything else I apparently have seen is a fabrication, in your eyes. I am not the only one who has had issues with people using temp rezzers that cause sims to lag and crash, so for every anecdote you have, I have one to counter it. Thus, you can either ACCEPT that it is a problem and stop BSing to people about it, or we can continue this dance ad nauseum.

Your choice.

See, I suspect that the problems are related in this case. It's one thing for a sim to rez a bunch of prims. It's yet another to let many clients know about it, whether they're clients in the same sim as the rezzer, or child agents in a neighboring sim. The Lindens might be recruited to look at more detailed numbers than we can see from Mainland sim statistics, but I *very* much doubt that it's script lag. And assuming these are simple unscripted phantom prims being rezzed, I rather doubt it's the process of introducing them to Havoc for collision calculations, etc. Instead, I suspect it's an interaction between prims coming into existence and there being agents nearby to whom the sim has to push the prim parameters--or possibly just as bad, determine whether or not it needs to do so.

I say this from some experience with temp rezzers that behave quite nicely with a half dozen agents in the vicinity, and crap all over themselves with just ten.

Jig has quit this forum a half dozen times in a year.

You gonna do that to?

I dont get this thread.

Evidently there was a previous thread where Phil claimed he was using temp rezzers and it didnt cause lag,

he didnt like the response - so we get this thread.

Plenty of people have offered to experience this supposed lack of lag first hand, but Phil says they should just take his word for it.

Now Im not a techie-wiki type but it seems to me if your case is so rock solid you want to go on the forums and proclaim you are problem free you would be up for some friendly testing of the results.

Same thing with the camper zombies.

Surely there are measurables people could take during the various conditions.

Before temp rezzers / after

Before temp rezzers with X people / after temp rezzers with X people

Before temp rezzers at peak time / after temp rezzers at peak time.


Before camping bots / after camping bots.


Gas mileage window down AC off / Window up AC on

Etc.

I prefer convertibles myself... nothing like the wind across my scales.

And were supposed to just take your word for it that you get better gas mileage than a non convertible?

Yes, but I cheat... I use my wings for extra aerodynamics.

anyway, post the the slurl to your two dozen temp rez units.

too late Nina, he got mad and left in a huff.