Temp rezzers revisited

yes.
pay for your prims like everyone else, cheapskate.

My guess would be that it's an issue related to store visitors, as you suggested in your initial thoughts.

The sim has to serve the objects, textures, etc to all clients in the region (plus child agent clients in adjoining regions). So if someone just TP'd in, the sim will be using its resources to feed them the prims etc to rez around them. Meanwhile other peoples' temp rezzers poof, and their temp rez prims get put in the queue with everything else, and so blink out.

That was my original thinking. It could be supported by the fact that the temp objects aren't always missing, and it would be further supported IF temp prims are parcel specific, and not added to by the owner's other parcels in the sim. In fact, that would be a clincher in the current circumstances..

You told me to die, and I asked if you'd any preference as to how I do it. Paying for prims won't kill me off. Maybe you have difficulty following your own conversations, but keep practising - I'm sure you'll get better at it.

Because temp rezzing isn't a legitimate activity - it's only there to avoid paying for your fair share of the sim resources necessary to keep the build there permanently.

You are mistaken, Yumi. Temp rezzing perfectly legitimate. I don't know where you got your idea from.

From the fact that if the Lindens say you have paid for a given number of prims, then you should use that number of prims?

Learn to live within your means. Temp rezzing as a means to get around prim limits for objects that are intended to be constant fixtures is not the intended use for it. The way temps were handled has already been changed once... don't think it can't change again.

Still not against the rules, I'm afraid. When they are against rules, or when they cause any negative effect to anyone else, I'll stop using them. I can't say fairer than that

So why not pick on things that cause lag, such as clubs, instead of picking on things purely out of principle just because you don't like them? Better still, let's get back on-topic.

I didn't say they were against the rules. I am saying that they are not being used as intended, and I wouldn't be surprised if LL changed the way they were handled precisely because of this behavior. That's all.

Hey Phil,

I may have got this wrong, but didn't you say something to the effect that the temp-rez furniture was in your customer's rentals? Is that not causing them a negative effect??

Deu.

It's not like temp-rezzing is some secret hack or anything; if one weren't supposed to use it, it shouldn't be a feature. But it's a really *useful* feature for things that just don't have to be around all the time. In fact, it can save sim resources on average, as long as a script doesn't just keep rezzing stuff when there's nobody around. (That would be, euphemistically, a "non-optimal" script. )

This situation reminds me of the many times I would have parted with a handsome pile of L$s for a scheduled time slot on a dedicated testing sim. It would be easy for Phil to set up a gazillion temp-rezzers in such a sim and gradually ramp up a cohort of bots to see if it is indeed a people-vs-prims problem.

Is the CrashMe sim empty enough to give this a try? Admittedly, in this case he'd just be watching, not crashing, but put a sim monitor script in there to gather data automatically and type it into a chat channel .... couldn't that work?
.

You didn't get it wrong, and no, there were no discernable negative effects at all for my tenants. The rezzers were totally stable until I moved the store into the sim. Naturally, I'm dealing with the negative effects that have cropped up since I moved the store. This thread is about trying to understand the reason why the rezzers now struggle occasionally.

We could do that, but what interests me more right now is whether or not same owner parcels in a sim are treated as one parcel for temp prims, as they are for normal prims. I could actually test that.

My apologies, Cristalle. The post before yours tried to make out that temp rezzers are against the rules, and yours was against their use, or my use of them so, without quoting either of the posts, I wrote a reply that I thought would cover both.

Walking/rezzing into a sim is a necessary, if not critical, function. Temp rezzers are a bit down the priority list by comparison.

We've already had discussions about what temp rezzers can do to a sim, performance wise. You can keep believing in whatever fairy tale version you want to defend your product(s), but the fact is, they DO induce lag in a sim. We have direct evidence of it.



Wrong.



Yes, we should also pick on logging in as well, because it is obviously not nearly as necessary a function as temp rezzers provide.

The difference between my "fairy tales" and yours are that mine are based on actual observations, whereas yours are merely your imaginations and fanciful thoughts, not to mention rumours that you've heard along the way. Perhaps you'd like to post on topic?

Btw, what product(s) would that be? Can't you read?

In the absence of any explanatory reasoning, I have to assume that you think that anything and everything that a sim server does is lag. LMAO! Would you like to post on topic and stop showing yourself up? You know it makes sense

1. press ctrl+shift+1
2. look at sim fps
3. rez something more than 30 prims
4. run 24 temp rezzers that do the same
5. if it does not lag the sim fps please send me a tp and show it to me

Yes, the temp rezzer we have used in the Cathedral sim since before you even existed in this space is just in my imagination. The fact that the Cathedral sim lags out when it is used fairly often as indicated here is just a collective hallucination of HUNDREDS of people. Yeah. Sure. Righty-o, mate.



The ones that YOU made that YOU claim to use, that you claim you "don't sell anymore" in this very thread. Yes, I can read. Can you even read your own words?



I responded to YOUR post, so unless YOUR OWN post was off-topic, I WAS on-topic. I have already given my reasoning. Experience. Lots of it. For longer than you have existed here. That's enough for me.

please rez two dozen temp rez devices then i can organise a linden return.
ive seen it happen many times.

This shows the flaw in your analysis.

The proper heading isn't "lag", it's "contributes to lag." Many things are acceptable in a situation where the load is light enough to avoid lag, but become unacceptable when the overall load becomes high enough for lag to be an issue. Just because they didn't cause lag in the lightly loaded situation doesn't mean they're not the primary causes of lag in the heavily loaded situation. And even if something is only a secondary cause doesn't mean it shouldn't be the first to go, depending upon the needs, the situation, and the conventions around what's acceptable.

Your argument seems to be that it's the straw that breaks the camel's back to blame - and not the bags of bricks that got loaded onto the camel first. But in this case, the answer is that temp rezzers are only acceptable when the overall load is light, and that they're unacceptable when the load increases. It doesn't matter that they were there first.

If you own the entire sim, then I suppose you're free to choose to allow the temp rezzers and solve your problem some other way. But with 4000 free prims on the sim (over 20% free), it's not clear what value the temp rezzers are giving you.

To answer your core question, my understanding is that the server gives scripts a lower priority than all the other work the server has to do. Since temp rezzers require the scripts to run for the objects to appear, they're going to be among the first things to misbehave when the server gets loaded. Presumably, the piece of the server that removes the temp-rezzed object gets higher priority than the script that rezzed it in the first place, so the net effect is that there will be periods when the objects aren't there.

Thus, it's not an issue about rezzing, nor is it an issue about prim count. It's an issue about script priorities. As Jessica has already pointed out, for many scripts, we don't notice when they're not getting as much time as they expect, but for temp rezzers, it's very noticeable - but only if the sim is loaded.

Aha! So neither of us are believing in fairy tales then. You should still try to keep on topic rather than make silly attempts at insults. You're not very good at it.

You see? Alright, I accept that you can read. You just seem to be a bit devoid of understanding what you read, so allow me to spell it out for you in very easy to understand words. I do NOT sell a temp rezzer. Clear enough now? Good. Now I do understand you jumping to a fairy tale concerning the 24 or so that I use in that sim, because I didn't privide any information about them, but I will now. They are not the temp rezzer that I made. I bought it a long time ago - months before I wrote my own. So I didn't make any claims to use my own. I'll forgive you for that error, because your assumption was a natural one.

We're making progress, aren't we - I'm glad that I am able to help you What's next? Ah yes...

Oooo. Pulling rank are we? Please forgive me, sir. I apologise most profusely that a mere newcomer like me could even consider gaining more knowledge than a wise old user such as your good self, let alone actually do it. I now recognise that your one example of lag that is 'apparently' caused by temp rezzers far surpasses my very limited experience of using them in half a dozen different sims over quite a longish period of time. I hereby cast aside my superior knowledge, and henceforth I accept all wisdom, all claims, all opinions, and all beliefs, from all users who have been in SL longer than me. I trust that you will keep me informed when you find that your opinions and beliefs were actually wrong. I'm relying on you now, so don't let me down.

It seems that many people don't understand the intent of temp rezzing.

Temp rezzing is intended for objects that don't need to persist in the sim. Bullets and similar objects are the canonical examples. These need to be real objects, often physical, in order to have the desired effect. Particle streams won't work. But they don't need to be there forever, just until they either hit or miss. And because it's common to want lots of bullets within a short time span, prim limits are handled differently for temp rezzed objects.

It's an unintended consequence that temp rezzing can be used for furniture and other items that are intended to be there all the time (or at least all the time when someone is present). And, as long as the sim can handle the load, it's unlikely anyone will care. But that's not what they're intended for, and using them this way exploits a loophole in the usual prim limits. It's just that the loophole is usually only closed when the sim gets loaded.

They are already there, or don't you read?