Nicholaz Shows Mercy
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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04-13-2008 11:46
From his blog: From: someone Now third™ but not last, the following may come as a surprise to you. You can believe me, it came as much of a surprise to myself: Despite of what I said and thought I would do last week, and despite what I say above, the idea of looking at the recent memory leak kept bugging me (it seems that I still enjoy solving puzzles or I guess I'm just a pervert coder). Last Friday I had downloaded the source code because I was looking for the asstachment fix (see above). Somehow one thing led to the other and before I knew I was looking at leak dumps. I swear I didn't intend to do it, really it was just an accident  Well, I guess I don't need to mention the outcome *grins broadly*. Then, because a result like this is too good to go unused, especially for a guy with an ego as big as mine, more things led to one another ... I'll spare you the details, but unless something goes very very wrong, you can expect the fruits of Friday night to appear at an Open Source (capital letters) outlet near you pretty soon.
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~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Dana Hickman
Leather & Lace™
Join date: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,515
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04-13-2008 11:53
Omg thank you Ann... thats great news |
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Kathy Morellet
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 809
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04-13-2008 12:10
Three cheers for Nicholaz!  |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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04-13-2008 12:12
Yay, yay, yay!!!
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Landon Rozenberg
Registered User
Join date: 4 Apr 2008
Posts: 31
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04-13-2008 12:13
SWEET! I went with his last one just this last week and have used nothing but. Can't wait for the arrival of the new one.
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Quaintly Tuqiri
Still learning
Join date: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 220
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04-13-2008 12:15
Wow!! Looks like he just couldn't resist the challenge |
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Miles Beck
MilesBeck.com
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 537
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04-13-2008 12:17
Thanks for that good news, Ann!
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Alicia Sautereau
if (!social) hide;
Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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04-13-2008 12:31
WE`RE SAVED!!!  he needs to get a tipjar! |
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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04-13-2008 12:34
\o/ yeSSSSS !!!!!
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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04-13-2008 12:43
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! For there will be another Nicholaz! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! P2 |
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foehn Breed
More random than random
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,142
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04-13-2008 13:49
Can't wait!
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Xerxes Kingstop
supercalifragisomecrap
Join date: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 416
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04-13-2008 13:54
YAY!
Tipjar? One can probably donate VIA paypal somewhere on his stie, right?
Does anyone know an inworld identity for him?
***Edit... I found it. ***
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lucky man
lucky man
very lucky man
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Rhian Jenkins
An Alternate Alyx Sands
Join date: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 129
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04-13-2008 15:08
*giggles* I *knew* he wouldn't be able to stop himself.....he's just the kind of person who can't resist a challenge.... ....can Brenda come back now?  |
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Nibb Tardis
Registered User
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 29
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04-13-2008 15:50
Quite appalling, really.
How come one guy alone can fix LL's code in a 2 days, when LL can't ?
How come Nicholaz's fixes to the open source code haven't made their way into the official viewer's development stream ?
What was the point of going open-source with the viewer if you don't use the fixes provided by the community ? Are there less bugs ? Have Nicholaz and other folks been listened to by LL ? Have any of the open source contributions and bug fixes ever made it into the official browser ?
On the other hand, we have had landbots, copybots, spambots and campbots. I haven't yet seen any reports of keylogging or phishing clients yet, but it's just a matter of time.
Did they need to open-source the viewer just to fix some memory leaks ? Heck, there is NO excuse for a software company in 2008 to still ship a product with memory leaks in it. Tools for automatically testing software and finding memory leaks, bottlenecks and UI regressions have been around for decades. I know this, I work at a company that makes such tools. And if we ever shipped software without fixing the bugs that were found in the previous version, we would be out of business. If we had as many regressions as LL has with their viewer, our QA folks would be fired.
Any decent QA engineer knows this, and should not sign off a product release knowing there are so many unresolved defects. Simple as that. That's if there is any kind of sign-off or even software development cycle process at LL, which I actually doubt.
What they need to do is prohibit reverse engineering in the TOS and only allow official certified clients to connect to the grid, with a binary checksum or encryption method that changes every update. Block out the bots, the fake clients, and make sure that whatever connects to your grid doesn't put your assets in jeopardy. It's already a defacto standard, so make it proprietary. It worked for Microsoft.
But they wouldn't do that, because open-source, "*nix and script-fu" is so watermelony and kewl, man.
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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04-13-2008 16:59
From: Nibb Tardis
How come Nicholaz's fixes to the open source code haven't made their way into the official viewer's development stream ?
Some have. But if you read the transcripts from Pastrami's recent office hours, the reason others haven't been included is because the coders don't know why/how they work. Someone actually said those patches *shouldn't* work and, since they don't understand them, they don't feel comfortable using them in case of security issues and such. So, you know, rather than just TALKING to Nicholaz about it, they've chosen to reinvent the wheel...very very slowly.
_____________________
~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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04-13-2008 19:02
The first pass at Nick's new build is here: http://www.blueflash.cc/users/nicholaz/~experimental/Based on 1.19.1.4. Let's get feedback to him quickly, he has little time to spend on this ... |
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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04-13-2008 19:37
From: Nibb Tardis
On the other hand, we have had landbots, copybots, spambots and campbots. I haven't yet seen any reports of keylogging or phishing clients yet, but it's just a matter of time.. of course. From: someone What they need to do is prohibit reverse engineering in the TOS and only allow official certified clients to connect to the grid, with a binary checksum or encryption method that changes every update. Block out the bots, the fake clients, and make sure that whatever connects to your grid doesn't put your assets in jeopardy. It's already a defacto standard, so make it proprietary. It worked for Microsoft.
But they wouldn't do that, because open-source, "*nix and script-fu" is so watermelony and kewl, man. /agreed 100%---and reverse engineering has already been prohibited in the tos. |
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Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
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04-13-2008 20:53
From: Nibb Tardis ...If we had as many regressions as LL has with their viewer, our QA folks would be fired.
Which just indicates why software in general has such poor quality. Regression testing is development's job, not QA's (or, more properly, QC's). The QA people aren't the ones who reintroduced the bugs, so blaming them is indicative of the lack of respect for real SQA throughout much of the industry. From: someone
Any decent QA engineer knows this, and should not sign off a product release knowing there are so many unresolved defects. Simple as that. That's if there is any kind of sign-off or even software development cycle process at LL, which I actually doubt.
Whether or not to sign off on a particular release is a risk/reward analysis. The absolute number of defects is just a small part of that decision. The general criteria for releasing a new version of software is quite different for a bleeding-edge startup in a novel market than, say, medical, banking, or weapons systems. It stresses out SQA people like myself, but that's the nature of the business. I wouldn't dream of suggesting LL uses standards appropriate for other software markets. I wouldn't even suggest criteria appropriate for PS/2 or Xbox games - the risk/reward model is totally different. This doesn't mean I'm an apologist for them, far from it. I'm just trying to give a better perspective. |
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Czari Zenovka
I've Had it With "PC"!
Join date: 3 May 2007
Posts: 3,688
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04-13-2008 22:40
THANK YOU, ANN! ~*~Happy Dance~*~Happy Dance~*~ Downloading new viewer now
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Whispering Hush
™
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 277
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04-13-2008 23:04
From: Nibb Tardis Quite appalling, really.
How come one guy alone can fix LL's code in a 2 days, when LL can't ?
How come Nicholaz's fixes to the open source code haven't made their way into the official viewer's development stream ?
What was the point of going open-source with the viewer if you don't use the fixes provided by the community ? Are there less bugs ? Have Nicholaz and other folks been listened to by LL ? Have any of the open source contributions and bug fixes ever made it into the official browser ?
On the other hand, we have had landbots, copybots, spambots and campbots. I haven't yet seen any reports of keylogging or phishing clients yet, but it's just a matter of time.
Did they need to open-source the viewer just to fix some memory leaks ? Heck, there is NO excuse for a software company in 2008 to still ship a product with memory leaks in it. Tools for automatically testing software and finding memory leaks, bottlenecks and UI regressions have been around for decades. I know this, I work at a company that makes such tools. And if we ever shipped software without fixing the bugs that were found in the previous version, we would be out of business. If we had as many regressions as LL has with their viewer, our QA folks would be fired.
Any decent QA engineer knows this, and should not sign off a product release knowing there are so many unresolved defects. Simple as that. That's if there is any kind of sign-off or even software development cycle process at LL, which I actually doubt.
What they need to do is prohibit reverse engineering in the TOS and only allow official certified clients to connect to the grid, with a binary checksum or encryption method that changes every update. Block out the bots, the fake clients, and make sure that whatever connects to your grid doesn't put your assets in jeopardy. It's already a defacto standard, so make it proprietary. It worked for Microsoft.
But they wouldn't do that, because open-source, "*nix and script-fu" is so watermelony and kewl, man. O.K. first you really need to make up your mind what you want, like, you first ask why nicks patches didn't make it into the release, and then go on to blather about microsoft knowing how to release a product..... which is sorta funny seeing as they've never released a product which wasn't full of security holes and bugs. Never ever. And you tout the closed source certified client protocol as being the end all using this as evidence. mmm nah, not buying that. Maybe they went open source so that the real security issues would be exposed quicker, i don't know, what i do know is that almost 2 years after i joined sl, there are 60k people online at peak instead of 8k, i can cross most sim borders without crashing instead of crashing most times i cross a sim border, i can build up to 4km instead of 796m, unstable physical objects can no longer confuse the sim into thinking i'm out of bounds at -maxint height, and people still whine. There have been memory leaks before and they were fixed, this one will be fixed too. With or without nicks lovely patch. Open source means Nick is free to do whatever he wants with his patches, he can even sell them to you. He can sell the entire build so long as he complies with the license. Maybe he should put up a vendor inworld. |
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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04-13-2008 23:59
Good work Nick Yes pity LL don't work better with people like him :/
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Nibb Tardis
Registered User
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 29
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04-14-2008 00:47
From: Whispering Hush
Maybe they went open source so that the real security issues would be exposed quicker, i don't know, what i do know is that almost 2 years after i joined sl, there are 60k people online at peak instead of 8k, i can cross most sim borders without crashing instead of crashing most times i cross a sim border, i can build up to 4km instead of 796m, unstable physical objects can no longer confuse the sim into thinking i'm out of bounds at -maxint height, and people still whine.
None of these have anything to do with open-source. They are in-house developments. Oh, and just in case you haven't noticed, the whole grid crashes and burns everytime we hit the 60K mark, and sim crossings still don't work. Half of the time you end up falling down to -65536 meters or flying off the grid. And I haven't managed to successfully cross a sim border in a vehicle for 2 years. From: someone
There have been memory leaks before and they were fixed, this one will be fixed too. With or without nicks lovely patch.
There are dozens of memory leaks in the code. Some of them have been there for years. There is simply no excuse for that. I just don't understand the software development processes that LL uses. I mean, do they even triage bugs anymore ? This one for example: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5366It looks like a 5 minute fix, but has been around for over month, reported in 15 duplicates in jira, got 62 votes, set to Major, gone through several first look releases, release candidates, and has now proudly been promoted to the official viewer, AND HASN'T EVEN BEEN ASSIGNED YET. The beta/first look/release candidate process doesn't work because they don't even look at the feedback in jira... and why on earth are there 3 different beta programs running at the same time (and who knows how many internal development branches) ? It must be a nightmare to test and build ! Is there even an acting CTO right now since Cory left ? Who currently sets the requirements and handles priorities ? It seems that LL is always running in firefighter mode. They panic and screw things up and roll out without testing. They should really stop churning out a new buggy version of their software every 2 weeks, rethink their process and concentrate on a longer cycle. - Patch the bugs on the current version, with NO new features. Just don't. Consider that features and UI are FROZEN. Only patch real showstoppers or security issues. - In parallel, work on a real major release that will take maybe a year to do. Take your time, run iterative cycles with real regression testing and validation by QA at major milestones, and a single final beta program only when you have fixed most documented defects. I'm not hitting on the sole QA people (although LL's quality control definitely and objectively sucks, no one can argue that). Either their QA isn't aware of the buggy code, or they let it ship knowing it is bug ridden. Either way, when this is repeated in every single release, this is incompetency and a sign that they have a major management and process problem. |
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Deira Llanfair
Deira to rhyme with Myra
Join date: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,315
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04-14-2008 01:42
Oh bless him!
*hugs and tears*
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Deira Must create animations for head-desk and palm-face!.
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Whispering Hush
™
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 277
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04-14-2008 02:00
From: Nibb Tardis
//rant clipped//
I'm not going point for point on that post lol, but hey, it's a sign they are overworked and that the jira is flooded with "i cant log on's". Even that is drawing a conclusion, although pastrami did mention that the jira was out of control at the meeting. Time to sell some rose tinted glasses? |
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FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
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04-14-2008 02:10
EA Games when I bought their products had one issue after another with games I bought and if I said hey how come I am experiencing weird animation in the pool they blame the custom content if I added any.
So there are other very successful companies along with Microsoft that sell very buggy software.
I wonder because I never used any of Nicholaz products why are they so good from those who use them?
If they are so good why aren't the LL staff trying to find out why?
And if they don't know why it works why it is?
Just sounds funny they wouldn't if it actually works.
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