Define: Child Avatar

I'm not so sure I can agree. I think that, over the past several months, it's become very clear that the vast, overwhelming majority of SL residents like, or at least don't hate, child avatars, and have no problem with them at all.

Remember the SL5B thing? So many non-child av residents rushed to support child avs over that issue, I could almost feel the earth move.

I think kids cloistering themselves has a lot to do with the misperception. Kid avs have built many kid-centric places; and most of the other kid avs I've met in SL SEEM to confine themselves to such places exclusively - only leaving one kid-centric build to go to another kid-centric build. Many of them seem absolutely convinced that to venture beyond the walls is to invite griefing, abuse, ARs, and whatnot.

I visit kid-centric places on occasion, because I know some people there. But the vast majority of the time, I'm in other places that perhaps weren't designed with kids in mind, but aren't necessarily places a kid shouldn't be. The Hangout is one such place. The former Cthulhu Shrine, where I met my SL mom, is another. In all these places, I've run into maybe a dozen people who told me politely that my av made them uncomfortable; but never in all that time have I gotten any abuse.

If kids are concerned about the way the community perceives them, my suggestion is that they get out into SL more and let people see kids. Not just on rare occasions like BL, but in Second Life in general, at any given time. It really helps when, if the subject of kid avs comes up, a participant is able to say "Hey, I KNOW a kid av - Marianne (or whomever) - she's not bad at all."

Interesting assumtion .... so kitten and puppy avatars are not children? There is no restriction in SL to play a human.

In fact, one of the pics SL5B originally would not let in because of the "no children and adults in the same picture" rule was of 2 non-human characters.

RL legal definitions is one thing, but when discussing SL we need to take into account that RL physical rules do not always model the situation best and should adjust the definitions accordingly.

For me, what makes a kid in SL is mainly, small avatar, no breasts (yes I know there are limits) no clothing that highlight breasts or other similar shading, there are clothes out there for kids, with none of the shading for breasts. No hips (again I know SL is limited but you can spot the difference), and a skin that is not all covered in makeup and looks adult.

Sometimes I am unsure if it is an adult or child, for example one day while at Avatar Island, a "kid" was there, and she looked to me, like a small adult, adult skin, with lots of makeup, lipstick etc, very developed breasts and hips, and dressed with clothing that also had the shading baked in for an adult.

I asked if she was adult or kid, she said kid....

I told her bluntly she did not look like a kid. she was not upset, she found it funny (shrug)

Immy, I never really seen your avatar as a child, all the pics I have seen that you have put out there, always look like a small adult to me

Wait... Sky News is respected? They jes look like boogerheads from here.



If anything, this is a change over time. A year or so ago, I would say this was an issue with a majority of SL residents. Not all were overwhelmingly outspoken about the issue, but many were upset. Today, a year later, I'd say it's a minority -- and that many of the issues that still come up (like the ones I had at BL0 are due more to misperception on the part of the person having an issue with kid avvies.



"Cloistering" was also truer a year ago. Many private islands sprung up then, in pat to provide a 'safer" location. In this case, one where the kids and their families could control issues with griefing more than anything else. Some of our places were being hit very regularly then. Even I gave up on exploring for a while, and curtailed any visits to Linden Village. Obviously I don't seem to have issues with exploring or pestering Lindens nowadays!



I'd say, aside from time spent building things or at school, I'm out and about. I can still be cautious in new places (as the owner of Magic of Oz can tell you - an yes MoO is cool with us kids), but I'm also more than willing to wander the world.

I agree completely about the issue of perception. It's why I first started postin' here, an is one of th' reasons I've been so visible overall. Comes from doin some similar visibility stuff IRL.

Mari

I have two main characters, Cait and Kara (warning: the tenses will be strange in this post so I can talk about both of them):

Cait: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35176807@N00/2850038740/

Cait stays a kid all the time. She is a neko, but is pretty clearly a kid.

Kara as adult: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35176807@N00/2371273735/in/set-72157604304078967/ (posing with Cait)

Kara as a kid: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35176807@N00/2302974665/in/set-72157603972391607/ (on the right, usually more kidish outfits when a kid though)

Kara tends to go back and forth between a kid and an adult. When Kara an adult, Kara is Cait's Mom. Not sure what relationship to use when Kara is a kid .... cousins maybe.

If she is wearing something like jeans and a tee it is only a matter of changing the shape. For extra points, I love doing it casually in the middle of a conversation .... extra extra points if that convo is with someone who freaks out at kid avatars. Even when she used to be a full-time adult though, I usually phrased it that I was 'having way too much fun pretending to be an adult to play a kid'.

To be fair... I'm not surprised about the confusion, as I wrote my OP based on my own confusion. I wanted to see the general opinion of the forum and how each person leans on the subject of size/shape/dress/character:age. (^_^)

Rha is someone I used as an example in my OP, even without naming her, as she has insisted for a long time that I've never been a kid avatar. On the other end, I have a few people inworld that insist that even my 6'2" avatar is still a child because I didn't age her face enough (and I do wear makeup). (^_^)

As for negative comments... I haven't had any and I'm not reacting to any at the moment. The majority of the people I meet so far really appreciate my current avatar. (^_^)

Sure, I was miffed at the AR last week. Frankly, I think the AR was more of a personal attack or griefing and that's why I had the problem with it. I'm sorry, but there are some details and assumptions I'm leaving out on the subject, but it doesn't affect the belief I have that the AR, from the beginning, was false. (=_=)y

"SL residents" is key here. The majority I mean is definitely not the majority that runs around in-world -- it's the majority that watches TV and imagines things it offers as news. SL leaves little time for TV.

But it's a long lecture on what a moral panic is. Read the book, it's worth it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Folk-Devils-Moral-Panics-Creation/dp/0415267129



If we take into account that SL is not exactly FL, the issue simply doesn't exist. Everyone at the keyboard is assumed to be an adult until proved otherwise, and are free to present themselves in any way they goddarn well please, as well as everybody else is free to shun them for it. The issue arises only when we assume that 'child avatar' is in some way fundamentally different from any other avatar and needs special treatment, because in FL children are treated in special ways. Then it's an unsolvable issue, because fundamentally all avatars are bunch of triangles, and the only difference is perceptual in a very non-objective way. The only objective thing we can rely on is a law, but like I mentioned above, there is no way we can apply it, because the definition it offers does not translate into SL.



I expect it has to be respected... by someone... somewhere... I don't know these people, but they must exist.

I'm 4'8" in world and female so I am VERY SENSITIVE to the child av/jail bait problem. I dress conservatively in Second Life. This is a very recent photo of me on my own land.

http://tacheiru.us/flyingfrogs/gretauseoffiveprims_005.png

I was very scaird of harassment so took pains NOT to make myself a target and also not to be mistaken for a child. I've been asked about my age once at a club that ultimately accepted me into its group. I responded. "Of course I'm an adult. I'm 4'10". Height is a very poor indicator of age." I finally tested my height with a prim after that and lost two inches.

I do dress very conservatively. I think the fact that I am African American in SL and have some very radical hair helps keep me on the "adult" side of things helps.

So far except for that one raather mild incident, I've never been harassed for my size. I've been called dwarf and told I looked like a burito, but no one complaining that I'm under age.

What bothers me sometimes is that I know it is perfectly possible to make a six foot jail bait avatar. Our society prizes the youthful/adolescent look in women and a fifteen year old can be fully adult size and wear adult clothing. There is nothing to stop someone from making an avatar who is just a bit below legal age, and she is going to be very considered extremely attractive.

I have been 5'1" since starting SL almost three years ago. I have been asked a few times if i'm a kid. Once told to read my bio tho i get apologies and nothing more said.
*hugs*

HA! XD That's exactly what I was called once in my tall shape... I decided to wear it like a badge after that day... It's not worded in my profile, but, adult&tall Immy will call herself nekololijailbait. (^_^)y

A child avatar is an avatar that looks like a child. A child avatar is also likely to behave superficially in a partially child-like way.

I see no harm in people using child avatars if they want to as long as they treat their avatars with respect and within the law and within LL terms of service.

I completely agree with that statement. I think it's important for more kids avs to work in the Mentor Program and assist new residents. There are so many talented kids that have a wealth of talent they can pass on to assist residents. Often first impressions are the most vital ones. Go explore, help out and have fun. There are a ton of great places to explore in SL that are not defined as just for kids.

Mawianne, if you remember, we did an episode of the Milk N Kookies show on baby talk in the community. *shudders remembering it*

I just wish we lived in a virtual world which was free of the pressures of the real world. Wish it was possible for everyone to accept that everyone in SL is supposed to be an adult no matter what age thier AV portrayed and we didn't have these horrible ARs and witch hunts. I have quite a few AVs myself of all ages and have been fortunate to have never run into a problem before.

I think Immy's av is cool and would guess she was an adult going for sexy lolita/anime look which is fine by me. I've had the pleasure of traveling to Japan before. The loli/anime/schoolgirl thing is huge over there and it is fascinating just standing out on the street and looking at all of the people. It is playacting in RL and is accepted as nothing more then that. Shame that it is allowed in RL and frowned upon here.

As for the people that use breasts or the way the AV is dressed to assign age.......woohoo! My daughter is in the 7th grade and I have been shaking my head at school functions for the last 2 years.

Yes, there need to be more of us there too. Kid AVs may want to look up mentoring for Virtual Ability as well (portal for disabled residents). I am in the process of going through their orientation stuff now and am interesting in seeing how their new residents react to kid avatar mentors.

From the time I spent on Orientation Island and Help Island, I found that people were paying more attention to chat lines and their own appearance than the little crud guiding them through the process. (^_^)y

We all look different .... it's who we are behind the keyboard... heres a link to a pic i took last year.... Maxi hUgGzzz xxx

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heehee2ny4.jpg

That green guy is NAKED!

btw im da green Alien in the middle... of da pic... Thers a song da go somefing like " I'll be whoever I want any old Time" ... cant remember who wrote the lyrics tho...

btw I'm not a shape shifter... im a full time shorty... it wos just fun to do dat pic wif my friends.... also huggies to Imy !!! >>> (^_^) cool to see yoo at Burning Life... sorry i had to rush off n never sayed hiyyas to yooo....

hUgGzzz Maxi xxx

lol dat me in da pic as an Green Alien n i am a girl hee hee

Apropos this thread, you can't tell without the clothes and even then you can't tell.

helping new rezzies goes much further than being a Mentor, I have been helping at NCI since it was made. Classes, events, all that the Mentor program doenst do. So simply being a Mentor may be fine for some but I tend to look beyond that.

True that. I've even seen some of the welcome-area griefers compliment NCI simply because of how effective the group is. I'm usually around to ruin the place though. Someone's gotta harass people and blow up the sim once in a while. (^_^)y

hey we gotta have fun most of all hehehe

hey!

the mind behind and the look.


"avatars" are much to tall, the default cube is 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 meters.
i have real height in sl 1.7m / 5.6 feet tall -> body not bounding box a ruler can be helpfull.

i think we all know the difference between a tiny mature person and a child.

sl is a mature grid and not connected to the teengrid. i cannot see the the need for a matured person to play a child, however

I walk around as a kid looking figure a lot, but the examples given don't look very childish.

@Imnotgoing Sideways,

The sexy outfit makes a child person look adult. So try kids clothes. I found a few good retailers on cute clothes for boys and girls.

Also the face, on the boy example from "Soji Slade" I've seen. There is a jaw line. So you just took an adult avatar, made it shorter, and that makes you a small adult.

Puffy face, bigger eyes, and animations too.

Some child figures, especially women use a "sexy walk" override. Children don't walk that way!!! Please!

Children walk like children, and they have kid animation overrides too. Making your avatar move childish.

So what makes a child avatar look like a child? By acting as a child, and making it look and move like a child.