Are temp rezzed structures allowed?

If temp prims were meant for rezzing things that are meant to be temporary and you are using it to rez something permanent and bypass the prim limits, it's abuse. Both on simulator load AND you are stealing prims from the estate. Temp rezzed prims don't count against your land limit (well, they do - you can't have more than 50% more temp prims than your limit) but you are also stealing prims from the prim overhead on the sim.

Plain and simple... "Temp" rezzing something "Permanent" is not what "Temp_on_rez" was intended for and is abuse. I'll stand by that all day.

Well, that's just totally wrong. Rezzing large objects is one of the more expensive things you can do to a sim. Doing it once a minute is certainly abusing server resources and, if you happen to live on that sim, certainly inhibiting other peoples enjoyment of SL.

In your opinion. You have a tendancy to forget that bit

Yeah? If you walk into a sim, or even near it, you are adding to the simulator load. So adding to the simulator load isn't exactly an abuse.

How? Temp prims don't count against the 15,000 sim prims. They are on top of it.

See above.

You can stand by whatever you want, but you are only standing by your own opinion, and not facts - which you are perfectly entitled to do. There are many things in SL that are not what was originally intended, but it doesn't mean anything. According to your opinion, temp-rezzed fish and grass are "an abuse, plain and simple" because they are not intended to be temporary like bullets are. You are entitled to your opinions, but it would be better if you stated them as such.

No, the primary reason the fish are temp rez is to make sure they don't get lost in the 0.0.0 null space - they clean up after themselves. And I am not stealing anything, since I have 1500 prim space free and clear over what is normally rezzed. The fish are 2 prims each, so with the 5 of them out that is 10 prims, which would bring me down to 1490 prims free.

Not everything temp rezzed is an attempt to go over prims, it is very usefull in make sure items clean up after themselves when *gasp* SL has a problem.

It would be if it makes a noticeable impact on the sim - I've already said that - but not if it doesn't.

I agree with Kokoro on the temp rez fish. I have a few purposedly set to swim in and out of an area. They are set to show up in different configurations and amount of fish. Definately a more real feeling then a prim fish swimming around and around in the same area. They are not out there to cheat on the prim limits but to provide a ocean scene with different fish coming into and out of the enviroment.

It's rezzing more prims than you can stuff onto 1024m2 over once a minute.. There's ANY doubt that that doesn't put a sizable dent in sim performance??

Temp rezzers or any rezzer for that matter do affect sim performance.

See http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 for an example.

Scripts inside rezzed objects that reset themselves in the on_rez event or set an object physical or set anything characteristic about a prim can cause additional sim overload.

The Statistics Bar is not a good tool to measure sim performance when an object is rezzed as it only samples at a given rate that is not granular enough. Sampling Time Dilation/FPS every 0.1 or 0.2 seconds will give a much better insight as to how bad a rezzer is affecting a sim's performance.

It seems a sim will cache an object that has been rezzed for some amount of time, so the first time an object is rezzed, there is more overhead than subsequent rezzes. Unless a rezzer (temp or not) has built in mechanisms to self-throttle a rezzing process, there is always going to be *some* sim performance degradation. Throttling a rez only makes it not as bad.

Just my notes and experience from writing my Demo Rezzer (non-temp-rez) over the past 1 1/2 years.

Absolutely. I assume you're just talking from theory and imagination. I'm talking from personal experience of it.

BS! Called you out on this one Phil. I luv u but I guarantee either Sindy or I have spent much more time testing then you have. That is ALL I do and I have been through stretches of several months in Aditi @ 6-8 hrs per day doing nothing else. I am a proud member of Dan's Bug Hunters and know and talk to most of the QA team.

Temp on rez a couple hundred prims every 50 seconds(it hasn't been 1 minute for nearly 2 years now), 24 hours a day and you are affecting a sim. It's simple and the numbers do not lie and are not imaginary. ctrl shift s

Heh.. Not as much "testing" for me as helping people track down why their sims are lagging. Temp rezzers are always one of the first things to look for..

Jesse that is an EXCELLENT point. Alot can be done with a single chunk of land. People have a tendency to treat SL like RL. Just because most structures, once built, in RL are static doesn't mean it has to be that way in SL. Unfortunately, people look for the easy solution, and often even take pride in the fact that they're 'cheating the system'.

That says nothing. Nobody is saying that temp rezzers can't be used abusively. What I'm saying is that their use to circumvent the normal prim limit isn't automatically an abuse. It only becomes one when it impacts the sim or other users and, byt that, I mean when it causes problems for the sim or other users. You talk as though the fact of using them to gain prims is an abuse, but it isn't.

Would I be right in thinking that, if you saw a bunch of bots thousands of meters in the sky in a sim that lags at ground level, you'd think you'd found the reason for the lag?

I'm not saying that a sim isn't affected by temp rezzers. A sim is affected by someone moving in it. A sim is affected by *anything* that is in it or happens in it. It's nothing to do with whether or not a sim is affected by temp rezzers. It's everything to do with whether or not a particular temp rezzer affects the sim to the extent of diminishing its performance, or affecting the users in it. Only then does it become an abuse of the system - and it's that word "abuse" that we're discussing. It's not an abuse to use temp rezzers; it's an abuse to use them if they cause the sim's performance to deteriorate or if they, for some reason, negatively affect users in the sim. They are just like many other things in that respect - including bots

You are probably completely right Phil.
It's blindingly obvious to you that anyone who's experienced in review laggy situations -- and who says that one of the first things that they look for is temp-rezzing -- would drop every other avenue once they came across a box of bots.

Your thought processes and insight are, as always, incisive and totally on topic. You have accurately read between the lines of Sindy's post.

That's the sort of thing that appeals to me only I can't bring myself tor remove my permanent home, even if it's all saved ready to plonk back in the same place!!!

my 2 cents:

I have been paying thousands for my land and never went over prims once. Much time went into trying to make things work within the prim limits for my parcels. I remember rebuilding and rebuilding over and over trying to make it fit inside the limits.

How about, why should someone who pays less than me be allowed to use more prims than me?


If you use a temp rezzer to rez some landscaping stuff to trim out a small parcel .. fine, but blatantly rezzing the main build that is more than double the prim limit of the parcel, is just wrong.

The real stab in the back is, that I bought small land only to show off my extremely efficiently built low prim house that took me many hours to build and some of my sanity too. Now its sitting there right next to a clear example of why people are not buying my low prim home. Someone is obviously marketing these devices to cheat the system and to avoid needing to buy low prim homes.

Same goes for temprezzers in Stores. I watched in horror as a store owner was showing me a bunch of Hippo rezzers that flash rez product over and over and over bringing their death lag to the entire sim. I cracked up said better you than me, hope your landlord loves ya too.

I am not an expert but so far every time I see temp rezzers rezzing lots of stuff - I noticed lag.

so then the truth must be : Temp rezzers = Lag

You were doing fine until this last bit:-
The truth is that temp rezzers can cause lag, and they can can also be used without causing lag. It depends on the circumstances.

that is the truth

light discreet use should be ok, but we are probably talking about blatant misuse not casual augmentation

Will the upcoming script limits that Lindens are discussing putting into place on mainland have any affect on temp rezzers?

Yes it will but not directly. You are going to have to pick and choose which scripts you have running, both on your land and on your person.

If the objects being temp-rezzed have scripts, then ...
Since temp-rezzers typically rez a replacement before the previous rez poofs, then the overall draw on parcel script memory would be doubled for these.

Er.. Sims don't lag differently at different heights - there's one sim fps rate for the entire sim. One physics fps, one time dilation, one script load, one everything else. Agents being in proximity to things that are doing stuff like lots of updates or physics can cause the sim to lag more but it's always the entire sim that pays. Always.

But, ignoring that, if they looked like they were causing lag then yes, I would probably think I'd found a reason for the lag.. Show updates is usually a good indication on the load an avatar is putting on the sim. Lots of them in close proximity might make me suspicious enough to ask Andrew or Simon about the effects of constant avatar collisions on the sim - I guess it'd depend on if the collision pairs are aged off then readded to the maps over and over..

But people do lag differently in different parts of the sim, such as at different heights. You are correct about the statistics values applying to the whole sim but the lag that people experience is different according to where they are in the sim. E.g. a person can notice lag when on the ground but find it lag-free high in the sky. That's very common.

The reason I asked the question is because there are some people who jump to conclusions about certain things that they dislike - bots and temp rezzers being two favourite dislikes. One of those people experiencing lag, and then noticing a group of bots, will very likely assume that they have found the cause of the lag, when it's likely that they haven't. You saying that temp rezzers are the first things you look for when lag is experienced in a sim suggested that you might be such a person.

..and, usually, it's got just about nothing to do with sim lag.


Yeah.. That or it could be because everybody but you seems to understand that using temp rezzers to create a couple hundred prims on a sim once a minute, 24/7, is something that actually causes sims to lag..

People don't like temp rezzers because they actually do cause problems.