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Does selling freebies violate the TOS?

Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
01-21-2008 07:28
From: Whispering Hush
This is precisely what is wrong with the perm system. Allowing non-creators to change the creators perms on free items.

If the creator made them full perm and free, LEAVE THE PERMS ALONE. It's morally bankrupt of anyone to change the goodwill of the creators gift.

This really does need a wiki entry.


Not in all cases. You can add value to a freebie and sell it. People do this all the time; for example, using free scripts in things they make.

I give away full-perms freebies. If unscrupulous people resell it, well, shame on them. But since I gave them away full perms, it's going to happen so I'm not going to waste my time trying to fight it. If I didn't want this to happen, i'd give full perms copies to freebie warehouses where I know they'll make them no-xfer before stocking, and give away only no-xfer versions myself.
Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
01-21-2008 07:34
From: Yumi Murakami
That's true, but the technical function of SL isn't the issue. As it is, when a person views that item in SL, they see a box marked "copy" with a tick next to it - it's not unreasonable for them to believe (in the absence of any other license) that this means it's OK to copy it. Your CD doesn't have one of those on the packaging!

What's at issue is that belief in the human being's head - not anything to do with SL's technical functionality. Yes, it's true that in SL the copy box is linked to the technical functionality, but that's not a natural law of the universe - it's just LL's decision - and nothing prevents the judge from just deciding that's a dumb idea.


I believe Yumi is correct. In the absense of any other document, the SL permissions system has to be assumed to expressing the intent of the creator.

Regardless, the creator is the one who has to file the DCMA, and presumably it would be honored regardless of other documentation. But the result of the DCMA action would be to delete the instances specified in the DCMA claim, which won't help much if the item is distributed widely with copy/xfer permissions.

Seriously: if you mark an item copy/xfer, expect to see it appear as a freebie, and don't expect to be able to do much about it. Yes, there are specific counterexamples, where copy/xfer is the ONLY business model, and which SL should be able to fix (i.e., textures).
Archie Lukas
Transcended
Join date: 5 Jan 2007
Posts: 115
01-21-2008 07:38
You must have copyright on the items?

If your name is in the script in any form, copyright exists for 25 years, no charge no registration.

Its US and European law.

This should be enforceable -contact the in-world legal office, they offer advice and are very helpful.



Failing that ask to friendly griefer to pay them a visit......
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Archie Lukas

"Just the facts ma'am"
MI5
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
01-21-2008 07:59
From: Lear Cale

Regardless, the creator is the one who has to file the DCMA, and presumably it would be honored regardless of other documentation. But the result of the DCMA action would be to delete the instances specified in the DCMA claim, which won't help much if the item is distributed widely with copy/xfer permissions.


The real problem I'm sure SL is facing is that we're entering a world where 90% of cultural references are either copyrighted or have copyrighted material insinuated into them (do you know how to tell the story of Snow White without breaking Disney's copyright?); and a world where digital transmissions are considered to potentially break copyright, regardless of why they're being done. I've had some cases where I've thought about something that could be built in SL and have written to a copyright holder to ask for permission and their response has been "No, but you could have done it if you hadn't asked us... we'd have turned a blind eye, but since you've actually asked us, if we say yes it has to be official and we can't say nothing. So no."

That's why they can't take on the task of dealing with copyright by AR.. if they couldn't allow the grey zone, there could be no Star Wars sims, no Harry Potter sims, no Gor sims (it's from a book, remember?), and we couldn't even sing Happy Birthday (it's copyrighted by Time Warner. Yes. :( )

From: someone
Seriously: if you mark an item copy/xfer, expect to see it appear as a freebie, and don't expect to be able to do much about it. Yes, there are specific counterexamples, where copy/xfer is the ONLY business model, and which SL should be able to fix (i.e., textures).


The issue here isn't giving away items as freebies, though, it's selling free content. I suspect that SL does a huge disfavor here by using "Give Away/Resell" as the name of the transfer permissions box, thus allowing the "normal person argument" to be applied to that as well (ie, it is not unreasonable for them to think they have permission to resell it)
Puppet Shepherd
New Year, New Tricks
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 725
01-21-2008 10:26
When I've done freebies that I want to be copy/transfer so people can share them, I've made them no-mod, and put in the item title that it's a free item not to be resold. That way if someone tries to resell it, anyone who might buy it can see in the item name that it's supposed to be free, because the item name can't be changed.

Although this is a good solution for the simple decorations I've given away, I understand that it's not practical for people who are giving out the kinds of freebies that people need to be able to modify/resize etc. However, I think that this technique could be used more often than it currently is so that creators can make it clear that their items are meant to be free.
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
01-21-2008 11:32
From: Caroline Ra
What I said was that maybe its not a good idea to spoon feed noobs.


Let me be the first to solicit you for a donation to NCI/New Citizens Incorporated--spoonfeeding noobs since April 2005!

We have an extensive collection of freebies from throughout Second Life, which we are adding to regularly. At our four campuses, we offer over sixty classes and events a week, including basic and advanced classes on scripting, building, scultpies, textures, clothing, and business in Second Life--plus classes on the basics like Animation Overriders, Consumer Skills, Land Owning, Gestures, and Dealing with Griefers. NCI also provides tutorials, helpers, informational notecards, and landmarks to other useful places in SL. Even more--we've got events! Parties, building contests, show & tells, Q&A sessions! Not to mention our new NCI InfoNodes--seven (so far) "mini-NCI's" located close to or adjacent to Linden InfoHubs: Hyles/Baileya, Istar/Iris, Ambat, Mahulu, Ross, Hanson, Chief/Bear--with more coming soon!

Please send L$ donations to the NCI Golem account. Contact Carl Metropolitan about tier donations!

We spoonfeed the noobs so you don't have to!
Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
01-21-2008 11:38
From: Archie Lukas
You must have copyright on the items?

If your name is in the script in any form, copyright exists for 25 years, no charge no registration.

Its US and European law.


Copyright terms are actually far longer than 25 years. In the US, copyright is for the life of the author plus 70 years (or 95 years after publication for corporate authors).

http://forums.secondlife.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1845707
Aleco Collas
Satyr
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 1,463
01-21-2008 12:07
From: Carl Metropolitan
Please send L$ donations to the NCI Golem account. Contact Carl Metropolitan about tier donations!


Ah, well... Since I started this thread, donations are also welcome in the german SL Help Station http://slurl.com/secondlife/Somdari/6/67/106

;-)

cu
Aleco
Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
01-24-2008 13:53
From: Archie Lukas
You must have copyright on the items?

If your name is in the script in any form, copyright exists for 25 years, no charge no registration.

Its US and European law.

This should be enforceable -contact the in-world legal office, they offer advice and are very helpful.
As mentioned above, it's not 25 years but much more. Used to be until author's death plus 50 years, but was increased. It's enforcable in SL by filing a DCMA claim. However, a DCMA claim won't protect you from someone reselling material you've sold as xfer. Copyright does not protect your customers from reselling goods. (Nor should it, IMHO.)

You are correct that if you create a written work you have implicit copyright without registration. This is also true of rendered art or recorded audio. This is true in hundreds of countries.

There is no implicit copyright for works that are not fixed in some medium. That is, if you compose a song and sing it or play it but never write it down or record it, you have no copyright.

What is the in-world legal office?
Dave Herbst
Registered User
Join date: 4 Sep 2004
Posts: 343
01-24-2008 14:38
Today's freebee will inevitably end up in tomorrow's Business in a Box.

The real victims are original product creators who are undercut by cheap resales of inferior objects, where resellers claim it as their own by locking perms and phony ad schemes.

Newbies don't know the difference between genuine or knock-off products.
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