Cheating Game Owner/Sim HELP what to do?

But you could have a points based game that had chance in it fairly easily.

find it hard to believe a game called "Deal" doesn't involve chance

Sounds like theres chance involved to me --

"Great spin bonuses await as well. Wild Cases allow you to choose your own number in the same row and Dollar signs will give you an instant bonus of 1000 points."

Did you not have a sploder removed under "anti-gambling policies", Travis?

QFT.

It's odd that at this late date there's confusion still: There is no gambling in SecondLife AND THERE NEVER WAS. There were gifts. Back before the ban, sometimes the owner of the "gaming device" thought it in his best interest to give you some L$s--usually because he knew that by doing so at just that time, you'd be very likely to pay the device more L$s.

Sounds like this particular game owner hasn't yet learned that one is not supposed to make that quite so obvious.

(Really, it would be a lot simpler and quicker if we just permitted armed robbery of people's L$ balance. )

I did - or rather a 'Money Machine' to be precise. Although, in fairness its certainly possible it was removed for another reason - it just silently disappeared during our anniversary party, with no word or warning. It was strange, because it was a pure giveaway for a special event - no money was accepted from anyone to 'participate'.

I'm not familiar with this 'Deal' game - but I don't see how some element of chance isn't involved there either. If people have to pay to play, it sounds like something covered under the gambling ban to me.

that's what object debit permissions are for, apparently

By that description, chance only determines what numbers you get. It's skill and choice that ultimately determines the outcome of the game. No doubt it's very similar to games already banned as gambling, but if not having chance directly lead to payout (like roulette or the old sploders) is enough to shield game owners and LL, more power to 'em. Most definately gambling games can have points or scores in them. It just seems to me the SL legal line's being drawn between games where chance = payout, and games where chance + skill = payout. It's all gambling to me and I don't play them, but if others wanna skirt the legal lines to play their games, then I have no problem with that.

I don't recall LL taking over SLExchange and using it for official announcements. When did this occur?

Just want to add that I reported this owner of Zyngo Mania...do NOT play there. Hopefully Linden will shut this guy down... I heard another resident in there today complainging that the guy owes him over 3,000L for winnings and he isn't paying out...Looks like he is ready to go under...

Seriousl6y th9ough, those who are against games in SL...what do you don when you are 8in SL? I mean I'[ve shopped till I dropped, skiied,surfed, visited many sims of interest, built two houses, one beachhouse and one castle...now what??? Nothing else to do BUT gamble lol

Please tell me if I am missing out on something new and exciting...Oh, I've been t0o numerous clubs too and I hate those babbler's, especially the baby giggle sounds which is cute the first time but after 1000 times it grates on my every last nerve...lol

I'm not as certain it even follows the letter of LL's guidelines as you are though.

Again I'll point out different Lindens enforce the policy differently.

I would think the best a game like this would get you is it "May not get deleted if you are AR'd"

In the case of the OP's account I am thinking the Linden investigating would, by human nature alone (owner admitting he cheated), be more inclined to delete the game because of "the rules"

I agree with that certainly. I usually don't think the Lindens follow the letter of LL's guidelines either, so it all depends on who handles it I guess.

so now how about reporting all the gambling ban infringements, not just those that ran with your money?

Yep this is why gambling was banned , imagine finding out you've been playing poker and found out most of the players were the houses alts. Or the slot machine is rigged to never payout any bet over 100L, or the slot machine is actually just another person watching your bets and deciding how much to let you win if at all.

I didn't say it was official, but if he is lying about it, he's been getting away with it for months. I should have been a little more descriptive with what I said. "The creator states he had his Deal or No Deal approved by LL. Check the listing on SLExchange." And by approved I assume he means he described how the game worked to a linden and they said it is within the guidelines.

hehe I somehow doubt anyone who wins money reports any infringements.

Im the creator of the Game DEAL - and previously the game Deal or Decline.

DEAL, Mindspin and My upcomming Game Scratch It! have all been officially approved by Linden Labs and are Legal to run in secondlife.

The Game Deal or Decline (Payout Version) is not considered legal in secondlife (as unfortunate as that is)

My games are fair and arent rigged like some past gambling machines could be.
As these games have been approved ive also have had games ive made rejected and do not sell. But i cannot control corrupt owners. the best thing you can do is report the person to linden labs.

Im glad to be part of gaming in secondlife. and i know alot of you have things against it (for some reason) but in all honesty let people have their fun. thats what its about.. escaping and enjoying a "second life"

That is interesting. Could you provide the authenticated documentation certifying the approval?

I find it hard to believe that a game which still incorporates an "element of chance" (note the use of the word "element" and is in NO way a "pure skill" (note the word "pure" game (all words from the gambling policy there in quotes) would pass legal muster at LL.

That said, it is not beyond the pale for a Linden to drop by and delete/return your game, regardless of any claimed "approval", because they have done it in other cases of supposedly "approved" games.



I would agree, but as long as there is a rule against certain forms of gaming, people need to follow the rules. It isn't fair for some folks to be honest and follow the rules, and others allowed to skirt and skulk around in the "gray areas".

I have my chat from Zara On all 3 Games saying its approved. im not sure if you can post chat thou (against tos?) however one would only need to contact Zara Linden as she was the one who approved all 3 games.

Of the 3. if you want a good skill game you should try Mind Spin. It basicly the classic Game of Memory fit into Slot machine theme. total brain game. unfortunatly it scares some people away lol. but i had fun making it. I love when people have fun playing my machines it makes me happy because my creations are being enjoyed

theres no mod here anymore

Not like anyone would do anything if you posted it.

I have a hard time believing you have such proof.

APPROVAL FOR DEAL:

[17:36] Zara Linden: (Saved Mon Jan 07 15:59:17 200 reviewing later today, i promise. feel free to IM later
[17:36] Zara Linden: (Saved Mon Jan 07 20:26:04 200 hi kain, can i get a copy of the Deal game?
[17:36] Kain Cleaver: are you still on
[17:36] Zara Linden: yes ma'am
[17:36] Kain Cleaver: sir
[17:37] Kain Cleaver: do you need any special permissions on the game?
[17:37] Zara Linden: nah
[17:37] Kain Cleaver: sent
[17:39] Kain Cleaver: btw how about deal or decline. whats up with that?
[17:44] Zara Linden: deal or decline isn't allowed
[17:57] Zara Linden: ok, it looks fine to me
[17:57] Kain Cleaver: OMG!!!! THANK YOU!!
[17:58] Zara Linden: might be a good idea to give it another name- so as not to confuse people...since Deal or Decline isn't allowed
[17:59] Zara Linden: but, that's up to you. i'll inform the rest of the Goverance team what "Deal" is all about
[18:01] Zara Linden: i'm about to leave
[18:01] Zara Linden: talk to you later!

Approval For Scratch It : (didnt have as much of a large chat with this one)
11:20] Zara Linden: thank you kain...i will look at it soon
[14:56] Zara Linden: looks fine kain
[14:56] Zara Linden: gosh, you make games quickly!


Approval For MindSpin : (This was before i held a contest for the Name of the Game)

[15:56] Zara Linden: hi kain, that game looks fine
[15:56] Zara Linden: it is definitely skill-based
[15:56] Zara Linden: let me know what name you decide and i will alert the rest of the team

I don't think a chat with one particular Linden (even though she is on the Governance team) constitutes a certifiable approval which would convince me to risk getting in trouble by buying and using said product. I would go for a real, bona fide legal letter from LL which states that your game has been thoroughly examined and is fully compliant with the rules regarding the gambling ban.

It's not you who really has to worry about this, though; it is your customers. You won't get ganked for selling illegal gambling games. Your customers will get ganked for using them.

im bout positive they dont send out the letters for such things. but its ok. other then telling you to ask the lindens themselves this is all the proof i have. besides the big places who host my games along other very popular linden legal games like zyngo, quince, Streetz, Dragonz, Piratez , Ect. (whats with the letter Z anyways? LOL - All Great Games BTW)

Interesting.

Isn't Zara the one who said a bunch of games were fine then turned right around and deleted them a couple days later?

Does anyone remember the thread?

Zara Linden once returned a game I made to the owner because it was shaped like a pyramid. This, in her eyes, made it a "pyramid scheme", and therefore illegal.

Seriously.