Removing a Layer of Anonymity

Why do so many people feel that age verification means "everyone in SL will automatically get all your personal info"?

That's just so......unreal.

Where is anyone saying that?

It's in our dreams

When you read stuff like "this is just the tip of the iceberg" then yes, that would be a fair inference to draw.

No it isn't at all.

It *is* the tip of the iceberg because the blogs say that it is the initial step and that more types of info will be "verifiable" in the future, but I havent seen one post suggesting that LL would require disclosure of this information in profiles. It *may* be offered as an "option", which is honestly almost as problematic, but is different from what was suggested in the prior post.

She's not commenting on what LL thinks, but the vibe/gist of what people are saying here. I certainly don't think that LL is going to divulge that information to anyone or everyone in the game; in fact, I don't think it's something that should show up in a public profile at all. But the feeling around some of the hype is that LL is going to shed our anonymity - completely - for us. I don't think they would ever do that, but I have been argued with on this point when we probably agree.

They may not do it intentionally, but since most of their other operations seem second rate, their information security is probably not exactly James Bond ish.

Wow! that's cool, should be the forum motto

I love Robin Linden to bits but she's way off the mark with this issue of trust. I trust people by their actions and I trust the AV. Knowing their rough age and location won't make me trust somebody more than I do now. If someone wants to tell me their age and location then fine but I don't need to know it to do business with them.

Things are going to be fine. LL has hired a new spokesperson to help Robin out with tough issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww&mode=related&search=

LMFAO! That's absolute Gold!

I don't think she's off the mark at all on this. In my little world, no, I don't need to necessarily verify aspects of my real world existence, nor expect others to, to conduct business or social relationships in Second Life. There are many people however who are engaging in business transactions involving thousands, tens of thousands and more of real, hard cash. There is also an extraordinary amount of fraud occurring within some of these transactions. When there is that much real money at stake, it's almost a sure bet that the parties will want to know WHO they're dealing with.

It's for reasons such as this that these optional aspects of IDV are being made available. Large business transactions, and yes, even one on one romantic interests that turn "serious", and begin to grow beyond the confines of the virtual world.. Wouldn't you be more comfortable about meeting someone IRL if they were at least willing to provide some assurance of their actual identity? After all, you're about to leave the imaginary world of Second Life and meet in person. Anonymity is pretty meaningless at this point.

As a general aside, the only aspect of IDV with any chance of becoming mandatory at some point in the future is age verification. And the fate of that rests entirely upon members of the community doing the responsible thing with regard to the content they produce and/or display in-world.

That is just too priceless for words, Raymond.

You still won't know who you're dealing with. It's not putting down full company information, the information isn't stored by LL or Integrity apparently. If you get ripped off and need the aid of the law you'll need to get a subpoena for LL to release personal details, which aren't the details gained via this process.

I understand what you're saying though regarding big money transactions and in my world I don't encounter them so maybe if I were engaging in bigger transactions I'd have a different view.



Well in the above scenario, I'd need to have talked to that person and probably exchanged addresses before I'd get to the stage of actually meeting them. I'd have been emailing them and would already know their real name, I wouldn't demand that they meet me with their passport in their hand to prove they were really whom they claimed to be

It may not be an issue for you, but it's safe to say that many women who have been victims of online predators in the past would probably welcome an added layer of identity assurance. Just one example that comes to mind.

I think my overall point is that this IDV system isn't being forced on any of us. All around, it's a pretty fair way for Linden Lab to protect their corporate hide, and at the same time provide additional tools to Residents who would choose to use them in building trust relationships in Second Life. Some will find the tools useful, others will have no need for them. Then of course there will be those wishing to access restricted content who can't bring themselves to trust the system being used for verifying their age - in that case, although I sympathize to some extent, I think the bottom line is "tough luck". The pool of data available to online identity thieves is already wide and deep, and I doubt this system adds one Iota of additional risk. What's an Iota? I don't know, it's greek to me.

people transferring tens of thousands of usd arent paying L$ to a profile. odds are they are conducting the transaction irl, using rl banks. even buying a single secondhand island would warrant this imo. theres no better verification than a rl bank account number and paper trail. cant imagine them putting much faith in either this verification scheme or ll's hands off disputes policy.

Thing is, wrt to using SL for dating, I can imagine a woman (not me, I'm much too paranoid for that) wanting to reveal these to one specific person. I don't see how it is being set up to do anything so specific though. So far, all commentary by LL has been in the form of reveal specific information to everyone or no one, with nothing in between. it still leaves woman (and men) vulnerable to net stalkers if used to verify themselves to their .net sweetheart.

Seriously, if you're that into each other, emails or IM programs are far more reliable and private. And if you need to see his passport before you'll date him, that's just sad.

greek it is. iota is simply a letter.

Whoa wait a minute. Hold the phone.

You want us to have additional Identity assurance by GIVING away extra Identity Information to a 3rd party.

We want our information safe from people. We dont want to know their information. We dont want stalked.

The less information we provide, the better, as far as that goes.

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Perhaps Im missing your point. Its sounds like you are saying that if we have the stakkers identity information they will less likely to be stalkers.

Problem is , from what Ive read , Stalkers dont usually consider themselves to be stalking.

Oh I agree, people really need to trust someone before meeting them. I wouldn't trust someone just because of the details LL are providing though, that's my point, I'd need to develop trust by talking to that person. However I agree that people should be cautious.



Lol @ the iota question. We all have different views on how trust is obtained, it was a question Robin Linden raised at one of her office hours, which I now see was a forerunner to this process being announced. We all gave differing answers.

I think those who wish to access restricted areas will be unwilling to verify, and yes that is tough luck but I do feel sorry for some of those in that business who will undoubtedly suffer due to this but that's a different issue. The knock on effect could be horrendous.

Some of my fears have been allayed due to the fact that I don't have to provide the information I object to providing. I don't have to provide my passport or driving licence number, that is what I objected to.

stalking is the reason i had to create the nina av. theres no way i will be providing research material for nina. if i want to 'remove a layer of anonymity' there are better ways that dont involve third parties and datamining.

Agreed. If the highly unlikely event happened I were to bring an online relationship to RL, I would have used methods already available to me to be as reasonably assured as possible to the other person's identity. Nothing in this sceme will make it any easier, at least what I can see.

LOL - we definitely dont need identity verification to take SL Relationships to RL!!

OMG thats crazy.

I cant beleive anyone who would trust LL's third party Identification Service to to background checks on would be stalkers - wow.

This is funnier than that skin thread now.

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Best protection from stalkers --

Dont give them your RL information. Then they cant find you.


What good does it do me if you know where the stalker lives after whats left of me is burried in a field somewhere.

LOL! Priceless.

Agreed. If the highly unlikely event happened I were to bring an online relationship to RL, I would have used methods already available to me to be as reasonably assured as possible to the other person's identity. Nothing in this sceme will make it any easier, at least what I can see.
It is true, here in the States we are catalogued a thousand times over, so this probably won't do much, although II still think the value of our Last 4 is underestimated. I do think a better option out there somewhere, but as usual, The Providers can't be bothered to think of one, (that TAO thing again?). It's easier to jut dump another half assed plan on us and leave us to do the work,, and absorb the cost.

They talk about Trust. From a paying memr's standpoint, I trust that I will be able to logon most times. I trust that I will be able to move about and function in world as expected. I trust that my inventory of Items I paid real money for will not disappear. I trust that if I have a problem with the service I am paying for, I can contact someone and have it addresed reasonably quick. I trust that when I want to give them money, they will take it.

Integrity is an ironic name for any coroprate entity today as most have none. In my life there are certain companys that I refuse to knowing do business with for various reasons. Walmart, certain Oil Companies, clothing manufaturers. I don't like what I have seen so far about Integrity/Aristotle, I don't Trust their business model, I'd prefer to see someone else do this.

LL needs to cover themselves legally, yes. In fact it seems it's the only lucid business decision they've made since I showed up. But this is beyond just verifying we are adults, and who we say we are for SL purposes.