PPRS (I need my resident database for paid locations)

I like the last few words of the "Foot Traffic bit, in the Improvement column:-

"Host popular events. Also see camping chairs and bots (although frowned upon)."

No - not in the sense that camping increases traffic, but paying for picks increases the links to the parcel's page. They both increase something, but not the same things.

The Places tab rankings are based solely on traffic (it's the only ranking factor). Picks only apply to the All search and they are one of a number of ranking factors, so increasing the number of picks will improve just one of the ranking factors for a page.

Has anyone checked on Taintee???

How did your first week in SL go, Taintee?

Yeah! "certainly" and "can also"

What we need are two tabs in Profile.
One for Picks as originally intended and used as a ranking factor.
The other for Advertising and not be used as a ranking factor.

It will be wonderful. LL will be able to offer people an explicit way of easily monetising their account.
Advertisers will flock to pay people to advertise in their Advertising profile tab. Of course they will! you just know they will. Will they .. flock?
They didn't think to pay for Advertising in Picks before Picks became a ranking factor, but hey, maybe nobody thought of it for some strange reason. Maggie Linden might have a view on that.

Picks would again be an overall useful indication of what people consider worthy of a Pick purely because of content.
To be sure, some people will use Picks to talk about themselves and their friends, but overall, that's just background noise.

The thing that makes nonsense of Picks is not the individual back-scratching that might go on. The killer is the systematic gaming of Picks in the 100s and 1000s for a single parcel.

Anyone found offering rewards for Picks would be deleted from the search index for long enough to hurt.
It would be easy to detect.
- Who's got a lot of Picks?
- Go visit and inspect
- Big smack if they are offering reward in return for Picks
- Rinse and repeat



Everyone will be rich and happy.
Isn't that nice?

Oh wow, what a big fight here o.o Oh well, at least you guys should respect the thread owner, Taintee didnt ask if picks were right or wrong in the first place, i think it was kind of rude to keep "debating" in here, im just passing by and seeing this special event, i hope you guys realize it... please respect Taintee , he's a newbie and you should only post here if you have the "answer" to Taintee's questions, not off topic please

OH MY ... GOODNESSSS!!!

When you look at that WIKI page , and click the Revision History link, you see that every single bit of it has been personally posted by M Linden!!
ZOMG!!!

Normally, WIKI pages are edited by all and sundry, but this one page just has to be OFFICIAL LINDEN POLICY.... because of the author(s). Or maybe it wasn't an Linden at all..... Bummer! ... But there is an "M" in the person's name!!
Go on people! Pull up the page and click the Revision History link. Check other WIKI pages. See who edits them.


Yeah right!
Your point is bogus.

Heck this isn't even a scuffle, you should have seen the old threads, they ran for days!

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Tips_for_Producing_Better_Search_Results_and_Relevance

"Picks Matter - Having links in other Residents' Picks tab counts, but creating bots/zombies stuffed with top picks doesn't help. The more Residents' Picks that reference your parcel/profile, the more relevant your listings will be in the overall search. "

Happy? No? More excuses about to be forthcoming about Linden Lab not encouraging people to find ways to get others to place their stores picks in their profile?

I had just assumed that Sling and Phil got married....and they went private.

Sorry Heather. It was bouind to happen the moment that Sling posted in the thread - second response. Sling has a huuuuge chip on her shoulder about gaming search. It's something of a hobby for her. But this isn't a big fight. You ought to have seen the big fights we used to have

Sling is being Sling regarding paying for picks, and the rest of us are, hopefully, counteracting it so that taintee can feel assured.

LMAO! Naa - we talked about it, but Sling didn't want me to use a wide-sweeping security device

Is it your argument that their is absolutely no method of getting others to place their picks that could be considered gaming the system? *Any* method is legitimate?

So by that same logic, if LL encourage people to buy and sell land then the people who buy, cut to 16m, erect a griefey tower and offer for high prices are not behaving badly. After all, they were simply doing what they had been encouraged and enabled to do. They were simply finding ways of selling land. That's your logic above.
Ditto logic for Traffic Botters.

No Sling it's not my argument at all. Using an army of alts would be wrong in my view, I pointed this out earlier when you were talking about traffic bots. The same as it states in the wiki article that using bots/zombies isn't good.

My argument is that picks were encouraged as a marketing tool, the same as LL's referal program is a marketing tool, the same as LL's sweepstake is a marketing tool.



Again no Sling, where does a wiki entry encourage people to go and sell 16m plots for high prices and install griefey towers? You know like picks, which are specifically mentioned in a section aimed at business owners, can you dig one up for 16m plots?

Can you dig up one that encourages people to create and use a system that automates the buying of Picks?

You can't have it both ways.

You would have it that the Pick buying systems are simply doing what LL encouraged them to do. You would have it that the methods used to obtain the Picks are completely irrelevant.

If that's your logic, then the same applies to the buying and selling of land, and the methods used to get sales are completely irrelevant.

Sling. What you are doing is this...

You've seen that LL suggested that place owners get people to put the places in the picks, so that it will improve the places' rankings. *You've* decided to yourself that some methods of doing that are right and some are wrong. It's just your own preferences, Sling. They have nothing to do with anything other than you.

The one that encourages people to get picks in other resident's profiles and tells people not to do so by using bots, I've already quoted this. The system that allows people to place a pick of their own free will.



No Sling, as I've pointed out numerous times, people choose to place a pick. They choose to do so of their own free will. The person who finds a micro parcel seller appearing next to them, didn't choose for that parcel to appear, there are no similarities between the two issues.

Ah!
You consider that because they only thing they were told *not* to do was to use bots, then every other conceivable method is OK?
You consider that LL always think of every way in which something might be gamed and then explicitly forbid them in advance?


Would you like to hazard a guess as to why LL set Picks as a Search ranking factor?
Would that intention be in any way gamed by people buying Picks?

More fallacy, Sling. Read post #64 and you should understand.

You didn't ask me but I will ask you. Would you like to hazard a guess as to why LL set Picks as a Search ranking factor? You should know the answer because you were told a long time ago but you may have invented other reasons.

No, for a start I find misleading keywords to be the most annoying aspect of search in SL, if someone has a high pick count for something they don't offer, then I consider that's bad. I'd find it bad if someone was telling people they must place a pick, intimidating people to do so, that's two issues I'd have right off the top of my head.




No.



Considering that it was patently obvious that people would be introducing ways to tempt people to place a pick, I'd be amazed if LL didn't see paid picks coming, indeed I find it hard to believe that they didn't see it coming, indeed as a company who have long had a paid referal scheme and therefore experience in marketing of paid referal schemes, I find it incredulous that they didn't see it coming. So no, I don't think LL's intention of the use of picks as a search ranking factor was gamed by the introduction of paid picks, even LL aren't that naive.

LL wouldn't have told business owners to chase picks if their intention was to use them how they had already been used, shout outs to friends, parks, nice builds, friends stores. Pick swapping was already going on before LL changed search. They had all this information and decided to inform people what they were doing and how to increase relevance. A company who were already engaged in paid referal schemes surely can't have been surprised that their residents engaged in paid referal schemes.

I guess I fundamentally object to the fact that the only search results available are ranked results. I'd prefer the SL search, Google, and every other search engine to return results in random order unless I make a deliberate choice to have them ranked.

Paying or doing other things to get one's thing to be near the top of the results not only benefits oneself, it harms one's competitors. Search engine proprietors should be honest brokers of information. If I ask for a list ordered by the amount that was paid to the search provider, then that's fine. But let me ask for that--or for a random list, or for an alphabetical list, or a list ordered by how long the item has been indexed, or on how many times a keyword appears on the site, or how many hits the site has gotten--or a variety of other indicators that I may find more useful and meaningful than how big the site owner's advertising budget is.

And I do object to paid advertising being conducted in such a way as to make it difficult for the target to know that it is, in fact, paid advertising. I think advertising in such a way as to create the impression that an individual whom you know or respect is personally endorsing a product because they actually use and like it, when that is not the case, is fundamentally dishonest. I think it's disingenuous to claim that it's anything other than a deliberate attempt to deceive people.

I am doing fine. I didn't post a reply early in here except if I had an update. Uhm, I am quite surprised though that you guys still talk about the PPRS system.

Now, I am going to say my opinion about this, I am new, so I don't know if my opinion crosses the lines on something I shouldn't say here, please forgive me if so.

I've read an article that linden labs was the first one to promote the slot machine (the script at least) and promoted for users to use it. And later on, second life banned such games as slot machines, the thing that they promoted in the first place. What they did right does not mean it will be right for them at a later time since it all depends on the voice opinion of society, regulations in the real world, etc. I think in their article, they specify to hear reasons how camping can be fair and not used for gaming. Since camping and PPRS have not been banned (gaming was banned as I understand now but don't tell me that camping chairs and the PPRS are banned cause they exist almost everywhere I go in second life), it means that they still didn't made a decision if the only reason of these virtual goods are for gaming. See second life now as being in court now and are still on trial to determine whether PPRS and camping is guilty or not guilty at all. Until they decide that, those systems will exist. Now I see many people here defend it for a lot of purposes that these systems can not be for gaming, while others find these reasons not to bring more benefits than its costs to keep these virtual goods on run. I guess the best resolution for this virtual goods to exist is to make such changes as both parties (marketers and search ranking people who value realistic results) to be satisfied with it. Whatever you guys say, it is Linden Lab to decide what it will do in the end, however, your words may take in consideration and influence them on what actions they will take (as I guess the gaming system and the gambling system was banned by people's complaints).

** UPDATE START **

I found the link on what I was searching for. It seems "Money Island" gives that link to you after you get paid into their PPRS system. This is the link:

http://www.derbfactory.de/check.php

I don't know if the PPRS system over there was allowed to give that link as I haven't seen any other PPRS system to give me that link. If not, and it was not intentional, the owner of the PPRS system can request the moderator to edit my post and remove this link.

Now, it is pretty simple. Just write your second life name with no spelling mistakes. Keep a space between your first and last name and that is it.

At this time, I see the owners who have the PPRS HUD right now are 994. Members who are active with it are 290. I don't know if the questions I am asking in my first post are classified or not, if any PPRS HUD owners had to sign a terms of agreement with that HUD, and it says the information of that product you guys got is classified, or better yet if the owner of the PPRS HUD is here and can tell us it is classified, please let us know. I will keep this thread open until someone can answer this.

** UPDATE END **

I am going to edit my first post and add my update section in the top of my first post so readers can notice it.

oh Taintee!

All that is too much of a burden for your first week! Forget about it! You go get all those pics in your profile, and get yourself some lindens so you can buy yourself some blue suede shoes or a red mohawk and some tattoos! You're here to have fun!

Save all the analyzing for a few years down the road, when you've run out of fun stuff to do in SL. But for now, you've got exploring to do.

The pic thing is fine. Camping is fine. Find some free Zingo machines. Find some Lucky Chairs. Find some freebie malls. Clubs have contests, too...and give away lindens or prizes. There's a tour you can take, too, using the a device called a traffic cone - it's set out in different places, and it will pay you 2L per 12 minutes to visit the place, plus you will run across some interesting places on your tour. If you would like a link to get started, just let me know.

I can't answer your questions about the HUD you are using - not familiar with those. Did you send the creator of the HUD a note, and ask about it? You know, some creators are down to earth people, and would appreciate all your enthusiasm, and answer each question. Maybe they have a Marketing Position open for you. Tell them you will come back here, and give them some good PR in this thread.

Thanks for your encouragement Mickey.

Yes, I have tried the "cone" that gives you 2 linden every 11 minutes. It is perfectly fit for me as a newbie to find new places that I haven't seen before.

Yes, I haven't contacted the owner of the PPRS system. I will do that, if I am in the mood. You know, if he really wanted to answer these questions (about fees and about all the rest of the questions I asked in the first post), they would have been in the descriptions of the HUD product. Most obviously, it is classified, and I think you are bringing me to the right senses that I am asking too much. However, as you say, he may be down to earth and even if he is not, if I do some marketing for him, he may give me all the info I want. Thanks for your answer. I still have 6 places in my picks right now, so I don't have to worry to remove any in the mean time. Besides, the HUD is not really expensive as it is, it may actually be worth it in the long term (as new places may be worthy later to pick them on) and in the short term if I am bored to do some research for my own.

Really Sling, unbelievable.

You got slapped with proof that Linden Lab actually told people to find ways to get picks, yet you keep denying. FACT is that LL actually promoted the collection of picks for ones business. They published the fact that picks had a weight in in search, and told us that we should try and get picks for our parcels.

So now we know that LL actually promoted the gathering of picks for our businesses, where exactly are we wrong in doing so? Just because YOU find something wrong, doesn't make it wrong you know?

One more thing though about picks. Some business owners have a big social network. Their friends put the business in their picks, not because it is a quality business, but because they are friends with the owner. How exactly is that different from paying a stranger for a pick? Both are completely unrelated to the stuff they offer to the potential customer.

Now as soon as someone shows me where LL ever stimulated users to gather 16sqm parcels with spinning ads, or to get as many bots as possible, you might be taken seriously

Really Marcel, unbelievable.
One doesn't have to get into the morality of it to see the logic of how *buying* Picks, breaks the reason for using Picks as a ranking factor.
It's gaming Search. It is an abuse.


The difference is in the scale of the operation and in the *payment*.
There may well be a few merchants will very large number of friends who can agree to place a Pick. These would be the exception.
There may be merchants who trade their personal Picks, but as we only have 15, the scope for significant abuse is very limited. Such a merchant could only swap with 15 others. In an overall search rankings where thousands of avatars might have natural Picks based on perceived parcel worth, these numbers will be minor noise. Ideally, such Picks should not be given, but their effect is minor in comparison to the effect of a growing volume of automated bought Picks.

Like any abuse, generation of non-natural Picks does not scale. Once you get automated systems designed to buy Picks, the volumes of bought picks begin to influence rankings significantly.




Now as soon as someone shows me where LL ever stimulated users to *BUY* Picks - which move would completely devalue those Picks as a ranking factor - you might be taken seriously.


/me see Marcels eyes rolling across the floor , picks them up and hands them to Marcel and says "Here, you are obviously in great need of these."